[SarahSweden]

I´m now waiting to meet with a new therapist and I hope we´ll go together. I´m not sure, she´s much younger than I wished for in the referral but I hope I can get help to find a way forward in life.

Daily I think about how my first T has succeeded in her life and knowing that and knowing about a lot of other people who have succeeded in several ways makes me feel so inferior it makes me mentally ill.

I deeply dislike living in the suburb but here you have to queue for about 15 years to get a flat to rent in town or you have to make a lot of money to be able to buy your own flat.

I feel like a loser when having to take the commuter train to town and not having a driver´s license nor a car.

I know life isn´t only about materialistic stuff but to me it´s very important to feel I´ve succeeded and that I´ve done something in my life.

At the moment I feel I´m just a nobody, a loser and as so many people have the things I want and they are at the same age as me it makes me a forever loser.

[Myrto]

It appears to me (reading your threads) that not having money to buy all the stuff you want to buy (a nice flat, a car, holidays, a private therapist) is what is causing you pain. But it seems that you simply expect your therapist to wave a magic wand and poof! all your problems will vanish. Really your main problem seems to be money and the fact that you don't have any because you don't work. I honestly don't think you need a therapist. You need a job instead. I would focus on that.

[here today]

Thanks for your honest and thought-provoking post, Sarah. I can definitely relate to the title of this thread. I think feeling inferior and unsuccessful makes me feel mentally ill, too.

Where's the dividing line, if there is one? And which comes first? Is feeling mentally ill the same as actually being mentally ill? It certainly feels that way. And when you feel terrible -- mentally or physically -- it's very difficult to function well even if one otherwise had the talents to succeed. Which, in my case, I both did and didn't because -- despite outward appearances and some strengths I was also kind of fractured inside due to long ago trauma.

So I finally got the trauma dealt with, I think -- at least to the point that I'm not so fractured.

But, still, in my case, having been inferior and unsuccessful (and maybe mentally ill) for many years now does that mean I will be forever? It feels like that sometimes. And yes that it IS how it feels. But is that what will actually happen? I don't know for sure yet.

I hope the new therapist can help you although I know, based on your previous experiences with therapists after the first on, that it's possible they may not. Here's hoping, though!!! And if not this one, the next -- or something else!

[AllHeart]

Ever done any work with the Universe or Law of Attraction or manifesting? Thoughts are energy, energy is action. What you think is what you create. Basically, the more you focus on what you don't have is what you end up with.

[InnerPeace111]

Is there any way you could set some small goals to start working toward getting the things you'd like to have in life?

[SarahSweden]

Thanks. To me there´s a big difference between feeling ill and being mentally ill as to me the latter says you have an illness, often showing already in childhood when it comes to psychiatric conditions, and that you´ll live with such a condition for your whole life.

Feeling mentally ill is to me feeling hopelessness, sadness, feeling very low and not being able to make any difference even if you try. Then you turn to medication and/or a therapist but usually you don´t see a therapist for the rest of your life, that is to me feeling mentally ill is something you can work on and get through with the right help.

Originally Posted by here today

Thanks for your honest and thought-provoking post, Sarah. I can definitely relate to the title of this thread. I think feeling inferior and unsuccessful makes me feel mentally ill, too.

Where's the dividing line, if there is one? And which comes first? Is feeling mentally ill the same as actually being mentally ill? It certainly feels that way. And when you feel terrible -- mentally or physically -- it's very difficult to function well even if one otherwise had the talents to succeed. Which, in my case, I both did and didn't because -- despite outward appearances and some strengths I was also kind of fractured inside due to long ago trauma.

So I finally got the trauma dealt with, I think -- at least to the point that I'm not so fractured.

But, still, in my case, having been inferior and unsuccessful (and maybe mentally ill) for many years now does that mean I will be forever? It feels like that sometimes. And yes that it IS how it feels. But is that what will actually happen? I don't know for sure yet.

I hope the new therapist can help you although I know, based on your previous experiences with therapists after the first on, that it's possible they may not. Here's hoping, though!!! And if not this one, the next -- or something else!

[SarahSweden]

Thanks. Yes, one rather big step I took was to begin the process of changing therapists which at the moment has taken me 8 months and as I haven´t seen my new T yet I don´t know if we´ll go together. I do small things in my daily life like going for a coffee or to the library to get out from my flat and not isolate me too much.

But the big and very important things in life seem impossible to reach, as work as I´ve been unemployed for several years now and I don´t feel there´s a chance anyone will employ me. By that I also can´t advance in other parts of my life nor is just acceptance possible as my depression and dark thoughts stem very much from how I live. Living on welfare and such. I don´t know what to do about this.

Originally Posted by InnerPeace111

Is there any way you could set some small goals to start working toward getting the things you'd like to have in life?

[BudFox]

Originally Posted by Myrto

But it seems that you simply expect your therapist to wave a magic wand and poof!

I never got that impression. Seems to me she finds these therapy relationships depressing because they have been inherently empty, pointless, and degrading.

[SarahSweden]

Thanks. Yes, at least my latest therapy was that way, with the T that said she thinks I have "an a n a l and in need of a s h i t" behavior. My experience is you can get worse when seeing the "wrong" therapist, much because you lose hope when you invest your time and energy into a therapeutic relationship that doesn´t lead you forward.

Originally Posted by BudFox

I never got that impression. Seems to me she finds these therapy relationships depressing because they have been inherently empty, pointless, and degrading.

Sarah, based on your thread title and the fact you have not really found much relief or help in therapy, I just wonder why you continue spending more time and money on therapy and therapists? It almost seems like it's an escape for you from starting to deal with those real life things that bother you most and Ts just remind you of them.

Many people get to really big life (including career) changes at middle age or even older. Go back to school, learn something completely new, get degrees... Have you thought of anything like that? Just make one goal and focus on one area of your life that you want to see improved for a while instead of hoping for something big and general?

[SarahSweden]

Thanks. As I spent a whole year with a therapist, the latest one, and for a long time hoped to feel better but it didn´t work out, I´m at the same state as when I started therapy with her.

If I could just jump into searching for jobs, I would but I feel too ill to do that, at the moment I´m on sick leave. I know therapy can work, I have that experience from my very first T even if the end to that therapy wasn´t good.

I´m in a very difficult position as I can´t study, I have no more study funding and because of the rules here I´m not allowed to study while on welfare. I´m dependent on welfare as I don´t have more study funding (you get a maximum of 6 years). I already have several degrees but I don´t get access to the job market as I´ve been unemployed for several years.

By that I need to get into some kind of work rehabilitation program and you then need to be in contact with some kind of health care, to get a part-time sick-listning.

All this makes me feel very hopeless about things, it´s like if you don´t follow the stream you don´t get any more chances.

Originally Posted by Xynesthesia

Sarah, based on your thread title and the fact you have not really found much relief or help in therapy, I just wonder why you continue spending more time and money on therapy and therapists? It almost seems like it's an escape for you from starting to deal with those real life things that bother you most and Ts just remind you of them.

Many people get to really big life (including career) changes at middle age or even older. Go back to school, learn something completely new, get degrees... Have you thought of anything like that? Just make one goal and focus on one area of your life that you want to see improved for a while instead of hoping for something big and general?

[Myrto]

Originally Posted by BudFox

I never got that impression. Seems to me she finds these therapy relationships depressing because they have been inherently empty, pointless, and degrading.

I agree with the fact that the OP's therapy is pointless. I don't think therapy is a cure for loneliness or joblessness.

[BudFox]

Personally I would not continue flogging myself with therapy. I would put all available resources into real healthcare. The MH system is about hug and drug, and superficial and absurd interpretations of life's problems -- you have "mental illness", you're not trying, mommy didn't love you..

If mental or physical functioning is impaired, what's needed is a comprehensive approach in my opinion. Can be hard to determine the real source of problems if nobody bothers to look.

[feileacan]

I don't remember if this suggestion has gone through your topics but have you considered volunteering?

It also remains a bit unclear to me why is the work market inaccessible to you? I don't exactly know the Sweden system (although I live pretty close) but couldn't you just apply to any place you like?

[here today]

Originally Posted by SarahSweden

Thanks. Yes, at least my latest therapy was that way, with the T that said she thinks I have "an a n a l and in need of a s h i t" behavior. . . .

Sounds as if she might have been thinking about what they call over here "a n a l retentive", which is based on an old Freudian idea? Not sure that helped any of those old psychoanalysts help anybody. I think it's related to the current DSM diagnosis of Obsessive-Compulsive Personality Disorder, which I think I may have qualified for before I broke down after my late husband died. There is no recognized, effective therapy for that, I have definitely looked. Treating the underlying trauma that may or sometimes gives rise to that kind of adaptation is something that might work "in theory". But I have found that, in practice, it's extremely hard to find. And I don't know that anybody in the profession is looking into the effect that therapy relationships which are "inherently empty, pointless, and degrading" can have to exacerbate things.

Nevertheless, since your therapy is provided by your government, I don't see any harm in trying it -- since you already are aware of some of the potential pitfalls. Who knows? Or -- some folks here have suggested alternatives, maybe those would be better to spend your time and energy on? From my personal experience, though, an OCPD orientation toward life, though sometimes effective at "getting things done" when there is a clear way to to do things does not in general lead to much happiness or fulfillment.

My "defenses" broke down and I was left in a terrible state. If I had had a supportive family or other social environment -- but I didn't. All that's available currently is "therapy", which may not help and sometimes makes things worse. And it's not going to get better unless and until there are people who persist and eventually make it and sound rational and reasonable enough to make a point and overcome massive institutional inertia.

So, working toward that goal is something that seems to me worth doing currently, whether I achieve any measurable success at it or not. I don't know if that will resonate with you or not. Just an idea.

[SarahSweden]

Thanks. The thing is that I suffer from depression and need help with that and also, I´ve been unemployed for so long I have a very low confidence in both myself and in society. I can´t cope with just whatever job and that makes it hard to find one.

Originally Posted by feileacan

I don't remember if this suggestion has gone through your topics but have you considered volunteering?

It also remains a bit unclear to me why is the work market inaccessible to you? I don't exactly know the Sweden system (although I live pretty close) but couldn't you just apply to any place you like?

[SarahSweden]

Yes, perhaps it was but it´s both rude and unprofessional to say such a thing to a patient. Also, I´m not diagnosed with any OCD diagnosis and when I talked to this former T about what she said she just said she could have said the same thing to another client as well.

That is, it has nothing with some kind of diagnosis to do, it was her own thoughts about me and she was frustrated I think that she felt she wasn´t skilled enough to help me reach the goals we set in the beginning.

I´m going into a psychodynamic therapy now and I hope that´ll work. I´ll emphasize I think the Rogerian approach is very essential and focusing on DSM, shortcomings are just a way to make the patient feel worse. I went through such a problem oriented therapy with my latest T, the one I just told about, and after one year she still sat and looked for faults in my personality.

Originally Posted by here today

Sounds as if she might have been thinking about what they call over here "a n a l retentive", which is based on an old Freudian idea? Not sure that helped any of those old psychoanalysts help anybody. I think it's related to the current DSM diagnosis of Obsessive-Compulsive Personality Disorder, which I think I may have qualified for before I broke down after my late husband died. There is no recognized, effective therapy for that, I have definitely looked. Treating the underlying trauma that may or sometimes gives rise to that kind of adaptation is something that might work "in theory". But I have found that, in practice, it's extremely hard to find. And I don't know that anybody in the profession is looking into the effect that therapy relationships which are "inherently empty, pointless, and degrading" can have to exacerbate things.

Nevertheless, since your therapy is provided by your government, I don't see any harm in trying it -- since you already are aware of some of the potential pitfalls. Who knows? Or -- some folks here have suggested alternatives, maybe those would be better to spend your time and energy on? From my personal experience, though, an OCPD orientation toward life, though sometimes effective at "getting things done" when there is a clear way to to do things does not in general lead to much happiness or fulfillment.

My "defenses" broke down and I was left in a terrible state. If I had had a supportive family or other social environment -- but I didn't. All that's available currently is "therapy", which may not help and sometimes makes things worse. And it's not going to get better unless and until there are people who persist and eventually make it and sound rational and reasonable enough to make a point and overcome massive institutional inertia.

So, working toward that goal is something that seems to me worth doing currently, whether I achieve any measurable success at it or not. I don't know if that will resonate with you or not. Just an idea.