[BudFox]

Many therapists promote talk therapy to heal attachment injury... and yet clients spend most of the time in an abandonment state.

Human attachment is generally characterized by lots of contact. Therapy inverts that, and calls it healing.

Shouldn't it be called abandonment work rather than attachment work?

Isn't this (small doses of contact, extended withdrawal) a recipe for crashing affect regulation and inducing addictive patterns?

And doesn't this conflict account for much of the traffic on therapy forums?...
therapist on holiday
therapist not replying to text/email
googling therapist
trouble coping until next session
obsessive thoughts
etc.

[pegasus]

As far as I know...

Attachment is the 'normal' that should happen as
a child, between parent and child. Forming the correct attachment or bond. Abandonment is what a lot of abused people have been through, why they might be in therapy etc... That's very painful and doesn't lead to good mental health. So the therapist is working on good attachment. When the therapist goes away and client reverts back to abandonment, we need the reassurance of the attachment. The therapist focuses on what is good, normal and healthy healing.

Ok, I hope I've explained it right.

[toomanycats]

Attachment is part of any and every relationship, including every single therapeutic relationship no matter what type of therapy you're doing.

Attachment to a therapist comes with heavy transference, and typically amplifies the abandonment fears that stem from childhood/early life experience. Over time, the client and therapist work towards a secure attachment -- one where the client begins to realize that the therapist is still there and the relationship still in tact even if there is no contact.

But it does require a lot of time and a skilled therapist. Unfortunately, intense attachment and transference can certainly come up while working with a therapist who isn't equipped to handle it. When attachment and transference interfere in progress, it's time to work towards termination and referral to another therapist who is better equipped to handle things. This, too, can be done in a healthy way that, while it certainly amplifies feelings of abandonment, can ultimately lead to the best outcome as long as it is done at the right time and with appropriate care and communication.

[stopdog]

I don't see attachment as having anything to do with why I hire one of those guys.

[toomanycats]

Attachment isn't something you're typically aware of. So, that would make sense.

Plus, if you really hate therapists, which it kind of seems like some people here do, then of course you won't attach. But just because it isn't for you doesn't mean it's not helpful for someone else.

[stopdog]

I did not say it could not be helpful for someone else. All I said was it has nothing to do with me hiring one of those guys. Nothing at all about anyone else.
And why on earth would someone not be aware of attachment to someone else? That does not make sense to me - of course one is aware when one is attached.
I don't hate therapists. I don't respect them but that does not equal hate.

[toomanycats]

Because healthy, healed people aren't aware of all their attachments. They just exist. They just "are." And every attachment is different - a different depth and degree and "flavor."

You don't really become acutely aware of them unless you've had some pretty painful attachment injuries -- such as being betrayed or abandoned by someone to whom you were deeply attached.

[BudFox]

Originally Posted by stopdog

I don't see attachment as having anything to do with why I hire one of those guys.

I was referring specifically to therapy that is aimed at addressing attachment problems, or to the general idea that being attached to a therapist is a good way to correct such problems. Clearly this is not relevant for everyone.

[BudFox]

Either I was too vague or people aren't reading the post, but I wasn't looking to have a general therapy attachment discussion. My point is that therapy is said to be a remedy for attachment woes, but in fact subjects people to repeated abandonments, and not a whole lotta actual contact.

[toomanycats]

I just think you're generalizing. I don't think therapy subjects people to repeated abandonments. I think people who are terrified of abandonment see it everywhere even when it's not happening.

[BudFox]

Originally Posted by pegasus

So the therapist is working on good attachment. When the therapist goes away and client reverts back to abandonment, we need the reassurance of the attachment.

So if the client reverts back to the abandonment state, that to me suggests they are in harm's way. Experiencing abandonment is not generally a healthy thing. If the premise is that learning to tolerate this over and over leads to some sort of correction, then it should be called abandonment therapy, and the danger should be acknowledged. Or maybe the practice ought to be abolished.

[toomanycats]

The promise is not to learn to tolerate abandonment -- it's to learn that not every separation is abandonment.

It's not abandonment when you don't get a text or email back.
It's not abandonment when your therapist goes on vacation.
It's not abandonment when your therapist doesn't see you every day and isn't always there.

Just because it feels like you're being abandoned does not mean that you are being abandoned. The person feels abandoned because of things that happened in their early developmental years. The idea is to experience a healthy human relationship where the therapist, unlike the person's parents, is not abusive and holds steady boundaries that are predictable. You experience -- many times, over time, that a person's not being right there all the time doesn't lead to abandonment.

[Calilady]

It wasn't for me. Whether it was because I didn't have a very adept T or be it that I was probably picking someone unavailable to me, thus continuing my repetition compulsion...it didn't work out well for me.
It was quite painful the entire time; I longed to be a part of her life and it was an ache that I had to harness.

I think folks like me with avoidant traits are too often told that because you sometimes run, that you have to stay with your T. You must. You have to do the opposite of what you've done your entire life...but, many of those times I chose someone who was bad for me, who I shouldn't have stayed around any way. We likenm a T relationship to someone who is worthy of our trust and who has the benefit of the doubt because they are professionals, but they fall victim to their own humanity too and reeanactment can occur and I don't think that's a good thing if you're cycling with someone who can't pull you out of it.

I'm sure it has worked for some, but it didn't work for me and my heart goes out to those I've encountered on forums, like this, who were in utter turmoil because it was too painful to go, yet too painful to stay. And in some of those cases, it had been going on for years...which leads me to question if they were just being retraumatized.

[pegasus]

Originally Posted by BudFox

So if the client reverts back to the abandonment state, that to me suggests they are in harm's way. Experiencing abandonment is not generally a healthy thing. If the premise is that learning to tolerate this over and over leads to some sort of correction, then it should be called abandonment therapy, and the danger should be acknowledged. Or maybe the practice ought to be abolished.

No, because it's about reframing, that is to say you emotionally build up a healthy attachment ie a good parent/ adult. You will get to a point of healthy attachment with your own internal therapist. Its up to the therapist to make you feel safe and have the coping strategies for those times when T is away etc. I'm sorry this is so painful for you.

I personally do not believe that therapy, in terms of the therapist-client relationship, can realistically model healthy attachment in everyday personal relationships. Let alone "fix" issues around it. It is far too limited for that, the entire structure and how it is done is way too unnatural. But this is just my opinion.

I was also intrigued by the comment that healthy people are not aware of their attachments, or I guess I do not understand it. People routinely miss others they like and are close to, go out of their way for loved ones and relationships in general. Maybe it's just not called "attachment" in everyday life, but things like love, friendship, companionship, etc. I would rather imagine that those that are unaware of these feelings and motives in themselves are either very young or... quite unhealthy emotionally?

[toomanycats]

And to add - not only do you experience that the therapist not being right there doesn't mean abandonment, but you experience that the therapist doesn't require you to take care of them or to do anything for them (like an abuser may have required) (except pay their fee) in order for them to not abandon you.

And, attachment work goes beyond abandonment. It's about self-worth, feeling safe in the world, knowing who you are, developing beyond the frozen child emotional state that is lurking inside.

It's an opportunity to grow up.

[toomanycats]

-Delete- double post.

Originally Posted by toomanycats

And, attachment work goes beyond abandonment. It's about self-worth, feeling safe in the world, knowing who you are, developing beyond the frozen child emotional state that is lurking inside.

It's an opportunity to grow up.

This I easily get and believe it can be part of therapy, and it is for many. But why is it called "attachment work"? It sounds more like personal development.

[toomanycats]

Originally Posted by Xynesthesia

I was also intrigued by the comment that healthy people are not aware of their attachments, or I guess I do not understand it. People routinely miss others they like and are close to, go out of their way for loved ones and relationships in general. Maybe it's just not called "attachment" in everyday life, but things like love, friendship, companionship, etc. I would rather imagine that those that are unaware of these feelings and motives in themselves are either very young or... quite unhealthy emotionally?

It's hard to explain exactly what I mean. I don't mean that they don't know who they love and care about.

Here's the best analogy I have:
Have you ever exercised and, the next day, been really sore and said/thought "I hurt in places I didn't even know existed." ... or been sick/injured and thought "I forgot how good it is to be able to breathe through my nose, but now that I can't, it's all I can think about..."

That's what I meant by "not aware of."

And maybe this applies more to "secure attachments" rather than to a "healthy, healed person." When an attachment is secure, you aren't as aware of it in that you are feeling the constant need to fight for it, guard it, protect it... or the constant fear of losing it.

[BayBrony]

Originally Posted by Xynesthesia

I personally do not believe that therapy, in terms of the therapist-client relationship, can realistically model healthy attachment in everyday personal relationships. Let alone "fix" issues around it. It is far too limited for that, the entire structure and how it is done is way too unnatural. But this is just my opinion.

I was also intrigued by the comment that healthy people are not aware of their attachments, or I guess I do not understand it. People routinely miss others they like and are close to, go out of their way for loved ones and relationships in general. Maybe it's just not called "attachment" in everyday life, but things like love, friendship, companionship, etc. I would rather imagine that those that are unaware of these feelings and motives in themselves are either very young or... quite unhealthy emotionally?

I think maybe they meant not aware of attachment types?? Like people who are securely attached don't usually know they are securely attached or think about it in those terms. Secure attachments are like gravity. There, reliable, no need to think hard about it. . My best friend is avoidant but she doesn't know that. She knows she cares about people but doesn't like them too close but doesn't see how that works as an attachment style. Most people, if they have relatively good stable relationships, don't devote a lot of time to thinking about the underlying attachment dynamic..they just enjoy and experiencr the relationship.

I agree with tmc its about reframing. Early abandonment hypersensitizes you to the point where small things seem to threaten the relationship. That's not real. The work is learning to recalibrate your emotional reactions so you don't respond to every separation like a hurt child

[stopdog]

Originally Posted by BudFox

I was referring specifically to therapy that is aimed at addressing attachment problems, or to the general idea that being attached to a therapist is a good way to correct such problems. Clearly this is not relevant for everyone.

I was not responding to your op. I was responding to a different poster.

[SalingerEsme]

Originally Posted by toomanycats

You don't really become acutely aware of them unless you've had some pretty painful attachment injuries -- such as being betrayed or abandoned by someone to whom you were deeply attached.

I never knew that. I am anxious in therapy bc my T uses a lot of the frame to hide his context and view point. It seems like instead of taking one leap of faith to confide in him, and having it abide as an attachment, I have to talk myself into trusting him 1000 times an hour. He sets the bar high and the pace pretty fast- which I do like. However, sometimes I get spooked to tell so much to someone I d0nt really get to know any better session after session even though he is learning all my secrets. I do like my T. He is quick thinking and perceptive- very smart and good with words. He is done at fifty minutes though no matter what happens- he send you out in tears and as you sit in the stair well if you need a moment before facing the street. It seems so harsh!

[Salmon77]

It seems like the OP is suggesting that the T should be constantly engaged or available, or else the T is withdrawn and abandoning the client. Or that time between sessions is basically time when the client is abandoned. But that seems like very black-and-white thinking to me. Like toomanycats said, an absence isn't necessarily an abandonment. My T is on vacation right now, so I'm not seeing him, but that doesn't mean he's abandoned me.

In any case, isn't this like most adult relationships? I have friends I see once a week, others once a month or even once a year. I have family members I see once every few months. The relationship is not severed because I don't see them more often.

[nottrustin]

Originally Posted by toomanycats

I just think you're generalizing. I don't think therapy subjects people to repeated abandonments. I think people who are terrified of abandonment see it everywhere even when it's not happening.

Exactly. I have abandonment issues. I frequently think I am too needy or to much so people will leave especially Those I am closest to even hubby whom I have been with for for 27 years and my best friend of 11 years. T and I had to build a relationship of trust in order to accomplish what we have...bit she knows the lack of trust will occasionally come up with her l.

[Calilady]

Here's what I question on these forums (and this isn't geared to anyone)...

Counting down the minutes to a therapy appointment.
Putting the T relationship above all other relationships.
Obsessing about the T relationship.
Repeatedly telling the T, who cannot reciprocate your feelings, how much you love and miss them- perhaps even desiring them- constantly.
Not being able to leave them, even if you haven't improved and even if it hurts too much (retraumatization?).

These are just some of the behaviors that many of us talk about and I'm guilty of as well, but this is not secure attachment. It makes me wonder if the T is aware of the client's feelings (I'd say, probably) and what they are doing about it. That's an entire other discussion, but its science that the more someone makes themselves unavailable to us, the more we want them and the T just can't reciprocate. For damaged people w/healing to do, it just is a tall order and I think that's evidenced on boards like these.

I'm totally GUILTY of these things myself...and I'm not securely attached.

I'm not saying it never works, but I don't find many people- after scouring boards- that have come out of it clean, on the other side. I'd love to read about the case studies where it as worked out and if anyone has that info, I'd be glad to take a look at it because it might help me. I wonder if some clients might be continuing a pattern of trying to get an unavailable person to love them (as in my case). I've read about people suffering for years with their T, only to be told, "You can't leave the T you're attached to, you have to work this out through them." But they are stuck in years of therapy. They can't leave because it's too painful and it's agonizing for them to stay.

When do you release the microscope that you're viewing your life through and just live it? People who are in therapy for 10+ years, can't leave their T, are too attached and living in fear that they might die or move...and the T knows about it and doesn't terminate because they have their own issues. I feel for those people and have chatted with those people. My heart goes out to them. They know what it looks like to be securely attached, but despite their best efforts, they have no idea how to accomplish this, even in years of therapy, even by doing what they were told to do and not leave their T...some even seem worse off for it.

It's a slippery slope. I'm sure it works for some, but there are so many dang variables in there, that it's tough to even gauge.