Feeling too smart for therapist

Hello,
I've been a member of this site since 2014 with various issues. I first came here for depression, in recovery of the Robin Williams tragedy, then major insomnia, depression, anxiety, anger, bipolar inquiries, sex addiction and transgender issues. In short m, I have been around the block with every issue - oh and dealing with a wife hoarder too, if anyone can direct me where to go.

OK, so......I started coming back online more a few weeks ago to deal with insomnia. I have an unsteady living condition so can't get to a psych doctor for drugs. I heard that Cognitive Behavior Therapy is helpful for insomnia. It has not really helped because it seems to be teaching me things I already know. In some cases it even makes me feel worse by making me respond angrier. I feel like I am getting a second grade education from this. Cognitive Behavior Therapy seems like a ripoff. I can see why it is short term and no wonder insurance companies like it - because people would want to leave it, asap.
I suppose it works for some. I took it when it first became known, in 1987, I had bad panic attacks and stuck at home for almost a year. Within 3 to 4 sessions I got going again so it really helped - but I then became dependent on it and stayed with it for a year and a half and it became wasteful, it became predictable and expressed myself less and less as I became afraid to as the therapist became a friend.
So, with all that said, my current "therapist" is online and pretty much tells me stuff I already know, so this week I am searching for something else. I feel too, as a right brain thinking person, cognitive behavior therapy can not work for me since it deals with the logic-left side thinking of the brain. So I think, in my issues I need right brain therapy, one who can help with insomnia, codependency and gender dysphoria issues.
Thanks for reading. ...

Hugs, I really get that. i'm sorry you're struggling so much.

My last T loved CBT. I felt... too smart for her (mostly because she let herself being tricked easily though) and very belittled by cbt, as if they thought I couldn't read a selfhelp book on my own...

I don't know enough about all the kind of therapies to propose something, I just wanted to let you know that I used to feel the same way with my ex-T

I couldn't relax and trust if I felt that my T was not really sterling as far as being a wealth of insight and information. My T does existential and psychodynamic therapy, and he is truly bright, insightful , analytical, and all around clever. He went to an Ivy League school for undergrad, not that that means much, but in this case he is exceptionally smart. That is probably the one things that keeps me engaged in the middle of anguish over childhood issues- he keeps me hooked in with an irresistible metaphor or creative solution.

I can totally relate to this. I've had very brief encounters with CBT practicing therapists, and every time I met with one of them I felt that it was a joke. I really hope I am not insulting anyone here who is receiving CBT therapy and finds it helpful. It's not my intention to disparage it. If it works for you, by all means, stick with it. I do believe it works for some people. Not for me. I felt that all the CBT ideas were coming from purely logical, intellectual place that was already highly developed in me. If it had been possible to resolve my emotional problems through pure logic and rational thinking, I would've done it with no professional or any other help long ago since my rational, logical brain had been very developed. I needed to understand the logic of emotions, which is literally what psychology is, on its own merit, not through the intellectual logic.

In any case, whenever you feel too smart on any level for the therapist you are seeing, it's a clear sign to move on to seeing someone else who will better match your needs.

CBT sucks if you are prone to obsessive thought cycling. In fact my pdoc, refers to most of this stuff as "that hippy ****"
Being smarter than your therapist?
Oh god, been there, took me 17 attempts to find someone who wasn't, intimidated,reduced to tears or just full of absolute b.s.

My current pic is great, very smart, loads of common sense, firm boundaries.
And whilst he is no fan of cbt and similar practices, for compulsive thinkers, and those who already know what's going on but struggle to quieten their minds, he actually puts some stock in mindfulness.

If it wasn't for the fact I know he suffers from OC thought cycles himself I would have told him to get stuffed.

And whilst he has suggested it he has never forced it down my throat.
I guess what I am saying is the right T, counts for ALOT.

I stymied my CBT ex therapist because due to abuse experiences and current unhealthy living environment, my "irrational" fears were in fact VERY rational.

She felt overwhelmed by me. I liked her a lot but don't regret switching to get colleague who does ACT, DBT, and schema therapy - all of which utilise mindfulness and grounding exercises. I like how schema therapy incorporates psychodynamic as well as I believe our past experiences shape our present.

Mindfulness and guided relaxation has shown some evidence for helping with insomnia due to a racing mind.

https://mrsmindfulness.com/mindfulne...-resting-easy/

To a large extent all my therapy, only a bit of which was DBT, like 3 sessions (I hated every minute) and no CBT, has felt like telling me stuff I already know. So I don’t see it as a learning experience (unless they can tell me how to do whatever vague thing they’re suggesting, which they hardly ever can).

Like Erebos, I have found few therapists who aren’t intimidated by my intelligence. In one case it ruined the relationship—she was a PhD and it seemed could not handle having someone with the same credentials in the room, because it put us on an equal plane.

I don't think I'm too smart for my therapist, but I do think that therapy is not designed with highly intelligent people in mind. Some therapists and clients can still make it work, I think, but in my experience it works best for people in distress or who have diminished capacity due to emotional overwhelm--which at times is where I land when I'm in bad shape. So when I'm a wreck and can't process or keep up, I get less frustrated than when I'm hitting on all cylinders. Even when my brain is crap, however, I would still not pay for CBT.

I found CBT treated clients like they were half witted morons. I found it actually damaging not just useless.
I have never found any therapist that had anything to say I hadn't already thought of or known. None have had what I consider insight and I don't go to them for advice. You don't have to be all that bright to become a therapist

I think a lot of them count on people being medicated.

I have only had two psychodynamic therapists (one psychoanalytical in his preference and the other more eclectic). The psychoanalyst was far from what I am used to in intelligence level, depth of perception and open-mindedness (in spite of having a PhD, I think degrees don't reveal much beyond rough estimates) and our relationship escalated into a rather nasty series of conflicts where I pretty much shattered his "concepts" and he went into something that looked like an out-of-control rage and turmoil over it. He really triggered me in the wrong way because I had worked long and hard in my younger years to lose my arrogant streak, to try to be more considerate and not challenge people in a cold-minded manner all the time... but eventually he brought this out of me. It was kinda interesting, but not so useful for me, nothing new, except me projecting some destructive impulses into our interactions, which wasn't that bad because I struggle with self-destructiveness.

My second T was a pretty smart guy (with an Ivy League education and masters, if that matters) and we did have a lot in common, including a great variety of interests, insightfulness, open mind, learned respect for others etc. We also had some similar educational backgrounds (he was a neuroscientist in the past and that is my current professional field). But he was a bit too gentle for me and the relationship developed more into a sort of pleasant loose friendship-twinship type thing. He never really challenged me much and I pretty much went to our sessions for the fun of the conversations. I did make it useful in one way though, which had to do with our outside email contact, but not getting into that now. I eventually stopped the sessions because they were not more than having a nice convo for 50 mins, costing me $200. I also can't say that I learned anything really new from him, it was more a bit the other way around, especially in one area (addiction).

So what I have learned from experimenting with therapy is that I am very therapy-resistant and unless I find someone/something that goes beyond these experiences, it's rather useless for me to pay a T and go to sessions - in fact if anything, I just develop obsessions about the self-examination (count me into the club of obsessional thinkers). It's also hard for me specifically since I am a researcher in mental health, in the more hardcore science realms, so it's hard to tell me anything new for psychotherapists... And on top, I don't respond very well to people trying to support me emotionally and using a T consistently that way... so not too easy to find any area where regular therapy is worth the time and money for me. I do love to discuss related things though, hence my involvement in this forum

I think there are a few people on this message board that have found unconventional applications to therapy, including myself temporarily with the emails. Perhaps that could be a way if the traditional approaches are not effective and one is still interested?

My T does CBT. I would leave if I didn't like her personally so much. The CBT crap -- homework sheets, mindfulness techniques, etc. -- is useless to me. But luckily, my therapist can see that (and I've told her) and so she usually abandons the CBT techniques and just talks to me like a person. That's why I still see her.
(I don't want to insult anyone who is in CBT and likes it and/or has benefited from it -- I'm glad that it has worked for you! It's just not for me.)

You've echoed my thoughts so exactly, Ididitmyway. Last year I got free CBT with a counsellor through the NHS, but it was more harmful than helpful. My 'rational place' is more developed than virtually anyone I know, and after five frustrating sessions the counsellor suddenly decided I was fine and dropped me. It was pretty discouraging. And the sessions themselves were depressing; I spent a lot of the time feeling like the suggestions were moronic and that I was 10 times smarter than the woman across from me.

What kind of therapy did you end up taking in the end, Ididitmyway? Did you find it useful?

This year I looked around for someone private, and I found an integrative psychotherapist. I was hesitant at first, because while his website was professional and jaw-droppingly human, he had a small section on dream therapy and his love of Carl Jung. My logical mind screamed at me to run away, but my gut (and my emotions) said to go see him.

Now I'm so glad I took a leap of faith and went away from CBT and similar practices. My therapy is hippy as anything -- it involves writing poems, making art, talking about the difficult things in French at first (which he only half understands), roleplaying conversations between my emotional and rational sides, talking about dreams, and sometimes just sitting together in quiet. I could see how this type of therapy could be more useless (or even damaging) than CBT if the therapist was a quack or a bit thick, but my guy is so wonderfully human that the experience has been nothing short of transformative. This is my sixth therapist and his therapy has been by far and away the most healing.

I asked my therapist about CBT, and his answer was that it could help in certain situations or with a minority of people, but it rarely solved the deeper issues. This is now my view. I don't know anyone who has ever thought themselves out of sadness.

I think we need to listen to our guts more. If you feel like the therapy isn't right for you, tell the therapist. If nothing changes, look for something else.

I did CBT with my previous T. I tried and sticked with it moslty because of the low prices...I was in a bad place when I started and after a while I felt better, knowing I had some sort of support. I didn't like the T that much tho...and I noticed that after a while it was really repetitive. Thinking about positive statements or about defeating irrational thoughts wasn't working. Logically I knew how to do things, but deep inside I was a mess. When I ended it last February I felt better for a few months, but then everything came back again. Now I'm not using those CBT strategies, because they aren't helping. I think it's important to give a try to different approaches and see what works best for you.

Most of my therapists had Ivy League educations. School did not instill intelligence or insight. I also find about 98 percent of the therapist-to-consumer literature utterly obvious.

My therapist incorporated behavioral techniques and skills into my therapy (not exclusively), and while it would have driven me batty to do that kind of work exclusively and I would have balked loudly at worksheets, etc., I can honestly say it is the behavioral skills that I still use and still apply daily in my life now that I am out of therapy (and I'm not an imbecile nor never felt treated like an imbecile by my therapist at any point).

I do think if your therapist's approach isn't meeting you where you need, then keep looking. Some of that may be the limitations of trying to do therapy online rather than face-to-face. Is going directly to a therapist an option for you?

Strangely this statement is very similar to what I think and have thought so far.
Every time I engage in an intelligent conversation with my T I know that this is a complete waste of time. He possibly cannot suggest anything that I haven't already thought of, or if he does then his suggestion is off the mark and has nothing to do with me. In any intellectual argument about things I can destroy him in a minute because I have already thought about all the possible aspects many time.

But still, I have this very strong hunch that somewhere there is something more, which I quite don't understand yet and it definitely doesn't involve intellectual discussions, suggestions or giving advice.

I had an intelligent therapist (psychiatrist) use his mental energy to help me and for kindness.

My last T was intelligent but used his mental energy to harm me, to break me down, to disempower me. He was less intelligent than me but intelligence doesn't really cut across emotions.

Amusingly, T2 said today that he was concerned that I'm smarter than him. But he said it was because my brain jumps around so fast. I said I thought that was just about how my brain worked rather than an intelligence thing.

I think one of the reasons I meshed so well with my therapists is that we were very similar thinkers. All three had educationally focused backgrounds. All three were readers and writers. All three were parents. Very similar senses of humor and general personality. We just kind of got each other and spoke the same language on topics. We would have gotten along socially if that was how we knew each other rather than therapy. I think that helped because they were able to approach topics and techniques in ways that they knew would work for me because we thought alike.

The woman has stated on more than one occasion that her brain does not work like mine. She never understands what I am trying to explain. And when she talks it is like english words put in random order.

SD, I suspect your brain works very differently than most people.

I admit the woman is not the only person to have ever said such a thing -but I always thought people were just kidding with me. I really did.
The woman was serious though.