[stopdog]

Do/did you feel/think the therapist heard you or did you feel held (NOT physically) by the therapist?

For me - no. I think the woman might have understood what I was talking about once or twice and usually it was about my dogs. And I have absolutely no idea what those guys mean when they talk about a client being held by them (not physically). To me that sounds completely self - aggrandizing and slightly creepy.

[atisketatasket]

Sometimes I think they “heard” me, but a session or two later it will turn out they either did not understand or have forgotten. But, I think what they may mean by “heard” is letting a client say whatever they need to get out and just going along with them at the time, as opposed to having a dialogue about it—yet some clients might want the dialogue.

As for being the idea of being held non-physically, yes, I find that creepy. It sounds rather godlike (holding in the palm of the hand and so forth).

[DP_2017]

Of course I feel heard, I wouldn't keep going if I didn't, I got an entire family full of people to ignore me if I want that.

As for being held....not sure what that means in a non psychical sense but yes he has literally held me, and it was insanely healing.

[Elio]

yes and yes.

I didn't believe in the concept of non-physically being held until I felt it.

[stopdog]

It is their psychobabbly hold/held but not physically idea that I find odd. Like if the therapist says they are holding the client from across the room sort of thing.

[atisketatasket]

Originally Posted by Elio

yes and yes.

I didn't believe in the concept of non-physically being held until I felt it.

What does it feel like? Genuinely curious.

[Argonautomobile]

Yes. Two or three times in as many years. It was nice.

[LostOnTheTrail]

I know R hears me, and I have felt a strength in session that is hard to bring out in other areas.

I did feel heard by my second T many times, we had a lot in common and understood each-other well. But I have felt similarly with good friends many times in my life, it is a special kind of connection but not unique or something that ever solved the kinds of issues I went to therapy for. I also remain mystified about the "holding" concept in therapy, although I understand the idea intellectually. I felt/feel that way with a very few people close to me in everyday, symmetrical relationships - it does not mean we get/give the same thing, I experienced it in exceptionally good mentor-mentee and other professional relationships as well, where the benefits can be substantial on both ends but different. With therapists, I never felt that way and I doubt that I could, the construct of therapy is incompatible with it in my mind. So the metaphorical holding is not something I ever expected or would expect from a T. When I was younger, I did not expect or look for it from anyone else either, but then experienced it by allowing it to happen with some people and now do look for it in some relationships. Things like reliability, security, emotional expression and freedom, added enhancement of my life and well-being via those kinds of relationships. I guess it's similar to what is called "secure relationships". I don't really like the word "holding" for it though, it sounds a bit creepy for me as well. Understanding, respect, and some form of help with specific issues is what I look for in therapy.

[RaineD]

Mine hears me, in the sense that he's actually listening, as opposed to selectively listening or ignoring. But sometimes he just doesn't get it.

I've never felt non-physically held by him. I have some idea of what that means, but I'm not sure if I've ever experienced it.

[SalingerEsme]

Originally Posted by stopdog

Do/did you feel/think the therapist heard you or did you feel held (NOT physically) by the therapist?

For me - no. I think the woman might have understood what I was talking about once or twice and usually it was about my dogs. And I have absolutely no idea what those guys mean when they talk about a client being held by them (not physically). To me that sounds completely self - aggrandizing and slightly creepy.

I just listened to the podcast Psychology In Seattle about if therapists care about their patients. Ouch. Eye opening. A lot of these things are techniques in the moment, that feel real to trauma clients, but the therapist doesn't retain it or "hold" the person in mind the way they say( according to the psychologists on the podcast ). I am kind of a sucker for my psychologist, so I havre to really focus on hey he is at thanksgiving and hasn't thought of me since our session a week ago, and he is not "holding " me in mind in all likelihood. Being "held" is supposed to be about object constancy ( some of us didn't develop it well as babies) , so that we feel deeply we are held in mind by our therapist all the time, even if we are not in session. That experience of being held is supposed to be the moment of realizing that, and having the adult version of being picked up and cradled in a parents arms. After writing that lol I am a little queasy, bc I don't really warm up to some of the baby stuff even though I get it intellectually. I do feel intense connectedness to my therapist, and it hurts my feelings in a way I hide from him that he will, in his words. "rip off the field dressing" on long - hidden wounds with intense affection dn attunement, then promptly forget about me. I try to focus on he is a doctor and I am a patient, but the personal subject matter confuses me.

Do/did you feel/think the therapist heard you or did you feel held (NOT physically) by the therapist?

I don't know what you mean by feeling held (not physically). But, yeah, I did feel heard, but she often talked over me which really annoyed me, and often I felt like I couldn't say anything without a retort from her.

Some times I just wanted to speak my mind without having a contrary argument presented every time I did so.

I think that the overdone illusion of that "holding" is exactly what can cause a lot of damage to certain people who have that need and were/are not getting it. Ts definitely tend to take it too lightly, even just in their words or concepts. Few few can stand up to it and provide it consistently but they promise it and sell therapy on that basis.

[healinginprogress]

I feel both heard and understood by my T about 95% of the time. Shes very good about encouraging me to speak my mind and clarifying if she doesn't understand something and clarifying without judging.

In terms of being held emotionally or mentally. Yes, though not frequently, but that's because I put up a wall and often won't let her. It's a strange feeling when it does happen. It's feeling safe, but magnified about 1000 times. I feel warm and cozy like I just had a shot of vodka almost, lol.

[healinginprogress]

Originally Posted by SalingerEsme

I just listened to the podcast Psychology In Seattle about if therapists care about their patients. Ouch. Eye opening. A lot of these things are techniques in the moment, that feel real to trauma clients, but the therapist doesn't retain it or "hold" the person in mind the way they say( according to the psychologists on the podcast ). I am kind of a sucker for my psychologist, so I havre to really focus on hey he is at thanksgiving and hasn't thought of me since our session a week ago, and he is not "holding " me in mind in all likelihood. Being "held" is supposed to be about object constancy ( some of us didn't develop it well as babies) , so that we feel deeply we are held in mind by our therapist all the time, even if we are not in session. That experience of being held is supposed to be the moment of realizing that, and having the adult version of being picked up and cradled in a parents arms. After writing that lol I am a little queasy, bc I don't really warm up to some of the baby stuff even though I get it intellectually. I do feel intense connectedness to my therapist, and it hurts my feelings in a way I hide from him that he will, in his words. "rip off the field dressing" on long - hidden wounds with intense affection dn attunement, then promptly forget about me. I try to focus on he is a doctor and I am a patient, but the personal subject matter confuses me.

I have to remind myself that my T (and I imagine most Ts) hear very upsetting, emotional, and many vulunerabilities all day every day at their jobs. As much as I want my T to think about me outside of session I do tell myself that she can't; she couldn't be emotionally available to me during my sessions if she was thinking about me and her other clients constantly during her non-work time. Although that doesn't always work.

I guess basically I'm saying you're right and it sucks. But, you're not alone.

[DP_2017]

Originally Posted by SalingerEsme

I just listened to the podcast Psychology In Seattle about if therapists care about their patients. Ouch. Eye opening. A lot of these things are techniques in the moment, that feel real to trauma clients, but the therapist doesn't retain it or "hold" the person in mind the way they say( according to the psychologists on the podcast ). I am kind of a sucker for my psychologist, so I havre to really focus on hey he is at thanksgiving and hasn't thought of me since our session a week ago, and he is not "holding " me in mind in all likelihood. Being "held" is supposed to be about object constancy ( some of us didn't develop it well as babies) , so that we feel deeply we are held in mind by our therapist all the time, even if we are not in session. That experience of being held is supposed to be the moment of realizing that, and having the adult version of being picked up and cradled in a parents arms. After writing that lol I am a little queasy, bc I don't really warm up to some of the baby stuff even though I get it intellectually. I do feel intense connectedness to my therapist, and it hurts my feelings in a way I hide from him that he will, in his words. "rip off the field dressing" on long - hidden wounds with intense affection dn attunement, then promptly forget about me. I try to focus on he is a doctor and I am a patient, but the personal subject matter confuses me.

of course they don't all the time, like many of us do. they have a lot of training in how to manage themselves better. that being said, i know for a fact I've been on my T's mind several times outside the office, simply based on texts/emails he has initiated a few times.... and things he has too me in session "oh i took this photo of a dog i saw over the weekend, i had to show you it" etc.

my T also has a very small client load so that could be different, he has less than 10 clients at any given time. he also says at least once during the weekend he is working on notes from the week for sessions, so we all cross his mind at some point then. who knows if they thought of some of their clients on thanksgiving? maybe they did, even if it was brief. you never actually know what someone is thinking

[stopdog]

I did not think of their constant wonking on about how they hold clients as meaning (or not meaning - I was not connecting them at all) the therapist thought about a client.

[Elio]

Originally Posted by atisketatasket

What does it feel like? Genuinely curious.

Originally Posted by healinginprogress

In terms of being held emotionally or mentally. Yes, though not frequently, but that's because I put up a wall and often won't let her. It's a strange feeling when it does happen. It's feeling safe, but magnified about 1000 times. I feel warm and cozy like I just had a shot of vodka almost, lol.

It is hard to describe, I think healinginprogress said it well. A feeling of ... yeah sort of that warm fuzzy place after a little alcohol. It really is hard to describe without sounding all woo woo or something.

Warm. Surrounded by a bubble. Nothing else exists for that moment but the 2 of you and the space in this bubble. Peace, joy (?),

Relaxed.

It has only happened a handful of times giver or take over the 2 yrs.

My guess is it happens when there is a big surge of bonding neurotransmitters, the research is still out on which and what combinations do what. So maybe it is just the "high" from the right chemical make up in ones brain.

It feels like a high.

[winterblues17]

I feel heard definitely, I think she is very good at making me feel that, and that's I suppose what makes me stay, if I didn't feel heard then for me it was be pretty pointless.

As for held, I don't really understand what it all means! If supported then yeah I guess I do.

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by atisketatasket

What does it feel like? Genuinely curious.

I was going to describe it as kind of a dance. You DO hold a dance partner. But you dont want to be constantly asking, "are we alright?" - i say that because maybe IRL there are times you DO want to be more forthcoming with your partner.

But take this week with my t. First he cancels wednesdays appointment. Then he says he "wont be in" all week. I say, "well, as long as there is football on tv, and college hockey, i know where to find you." He doesnt agree or disagree, just repeats that he wont be in.

At this point, on other holidays, i have asked if he would still be reachable by phone. But i dont feel the need to do that this time. Im not expecting anything i cant handle on my own. It occurs to me now that he might be taking the family to look at colleges? Or otherwise be away? But i already handled my aunt calling, and my neighbors calling.

Im having bad dreams, about work and my mother, but probably im eating dinner too late. Hey, forty dang years of therapy better start paying off sometime!

[Elio]

Originally Posted by SalingerEsme

Being "held" is supposed to be about object constancy ( some of us didn't develop it well as babies) , so that we feel deeply we are held in mind by our therapist all the time, even if we are not in session. That experience of being held is supposed to be the moment of realizing that, and having the adult version of being picked up and cradled in a parents arms.

***This is just my take and is subject to change as more information and experiences occur***

I'm not sure I directly link the feeling of being held to object constancy.

For me object constancy is about believing, remembering, knowing the object is still there when not seen. For T, it means that the relationship, trust, feelings, and person still exists even if we are not together. That she is the same person (same role, behaviors, feelings) when she returns.

Being held seems to be more of a moment in time, in fact significantly not consistent.

I can see how having the feeling of being held, lends itself to object constancy as it provides a powerful positive feeling towards another person, strengthening the relationship with, trust to, and feelings for that other person.

[precaryous]

I think current T ‘gets it’ and there have been occasions where she has helped me develop insight about some of my issues..genuine ‘aha’ moments. I believe she thinks about me, occasionally, out of session..but not more often than that...and that feels real to me.

I feel the entire therapy room/therapist set up (with her in it) is helpful. I like the ‘safety of her presence.’ It’s not quite the same feeling with her on the phone.

I don’t feel ‘held’ by her. I’m not sure what that would feel like.

In my experience, I feel PrevT understood/understands me more. I felt PrevT thoroughly ‘got it.’ I had just had a huge trauma having been exploited by a previous therapist...and she understood what I might be feeling even before I recognized or understood it. There were many more insightful, revealing moments.

I felt she was absolutely in the room and was zoned in on me. I have seen PrevT be distracted by something right before our session...fumbling with the wrong key to open a door...something minor...and when it was time to sit down with me I actually noticed her do some kind of subtle maneuver where she centered herself and her attention was concentrated on me. She was atuned to me the entire hour every session.

Current T doesn’t do this as well.

The only moments where I might have felt ‘held’ by PrevT were created by me...in my mind...but she created the atmosphere where this was/is possible.

[stopdog]

I was going for when therapists think of it like this:
Holding, Containing and Boundarying | Relational Integrative Psychotherapy

Originally Posted by Elio

It is hard to describe, I think healinginprogress said it well. A feeling of ... yeah sort of that warm fuzzy place after a little alcohol. It really is hard to describe without sounding all woo woo or something.

Warm. Surrounded by a bubble. Nothing else exists for that moment but the 2 of you and the space in this bubble. Peace, joy (?),

Relaxed.

It has only happened a handful of times giver or take over the 2 yrs.

My guess is it happens when there is a big surge of bonding neurotransmitters, the research is still out on which and what combinations do what. So maybe it is just the "high" from the right chemical make up in ones brain.

It feels like a high.

I find this very interesting and something I tend to experience relatively easily with people I like and feel momentary (or larger scale) connection with in everyday reality. The 'high' coming from the sense of connection and that we understand each-other, a sort of momentary unity experience. I also agree that it is the result of neurochemical reactions in the brain in response to what is happening and to our subjective perception of the experience. If this is what "being held" is supposed to be in therapy, I definitely experienced it with my last T, many times, mostly due to the similarities between us. It is not the feeling and state I tend to appreciate the most in relationships though because it's far too transient, really a momentary feeling that can be reproduced by never lasts long (for me at least). But it can be a powerful drive to seek out certain kinds of people initially.

When I think about the life enhancing aspect of relationships, for me it is more associated with the state when it is no longer very new, thrilling, or even acutely relaxing, euphoric, whatever. It comes more from a stable sense of reliability, and established bond with someone I know pretty well and I am also convinced that they understand me well for the most part. It's more a complex, calm, stable knowing based on experience rather than a momentary feeling of bond or closeness. Maybe this is possible to achieve in long-term therapy even within its limits, in its own form. It's just not something I have ever tried or wanted in therapy but hearing/reading some reports from people, it does appear that they experience similar with a long-term T.

Almost always yes and yes. I feel very heard and very seen by her. And held emotionally. Yes there are times where she has completely NOT heard/seen/"held" me, but they have been few honestly. She is very good at listening deeply and hearing things I'm not saying.

To me, what being held means, is the feeling of being absolutely accepted, all of me. Therapy with current t was the first place I have ever felt that enough to... well, to start actually being all of me. Or something along those lines.