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  #51  
Old Jan 03, 2018, 02:02 PM
Anonymous57382
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atisketatasket View Post
CW said something similar. Next time someone breaks up with me, I'm gonna use that line.

I mean, seriously. Often someone leaves a therapist after the therapist has had plenty of chances and blown them. But they always try for another chance.

It's manipulative imo: dangling in front of a client the hope of some kind of resolution.

Also, you go, LT.
In my opinion it's absolutely unethical to not respect the client's autonomy and self determination.
Thanks for this!
atisketatasket, CantExplain, LonesomeTonight, ruh roh

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  #52  
Old Jan 03, 2018, 02:10 PM
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LonesomeTonight LonesomeTonight is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atisketatasket View Post
CW said something similar. Next time someone breaks up with me, I'm gonna use that line.

I mean, seriously. Often someone leaves a therapist after the therapist has had plenty of chances and blown them. But they always try for another chance.

It's manipulative imo: dangling in front of a client the hope of some kind of resolution.

Also, you go, LT.
Thanks, @@! Interesting that CW said the same thing... It does feel manipulative. Like if I'm leaving, I'm losing my one chance to get better or something.

It might have been different if MC had really taken ownership of what he'd done, how he'd hurt me. If he'd apologized. Like, "I can see now that I messed up, and why you were hurt by it. I'm sorry." But it still feels like he's putting things back on me. That they're things I have to work through and grow from. Stuff about how "trust" isn't a black-or-white thing.

Kind of...hm, in a paternal way, I guess...
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  #53  
Old Jan 03, 2018, 02:10 PM
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This is really stupid and random, but I think it helped that he was wearing a really ugly sweater today...
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atisketatasket, CantExplain, ElectricManatee
  #54  
Old Jan 03, 2018, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by NP_Complete View Post
I don't know what's wrong with me. There's nothing going on in my life right now but I want to cry and I'm anxious and I'm not sleeping well.
There's nothing wrong with you NP. You just need time.

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  #55  
Old Jan 03, 2018, 02:16 PM
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Just printed out Piaf's paperwork.

First of all, it is 24 pages long. Second, large parts of it are not boilerplate but appear to have been drawn up by a lawyer. Third, she details her plan in the event of death or incapacitation and lists her executor.

And she wants me to rate on a scale of 1 to 10 my trust level in therapists. Gee, what should I put down?

ETA: Can't even find any typos.
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  #56  
Old Jan 03, 2018, 02:18 PM
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I think a lot of them believe that working through a conflict is a benefit and that offering to do so is something that is a good thing. I think it is crap, but reading stuff by them where they flat out say it is what leads me to believe they profess such a thing on a regular basis. I don't think mc was trying to pressure but was leaving the door open sort of thing.
There is this guy (who I think is an asshole but many seem to like him)
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...n-quit-therapy
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...i-what-why-how
who touts such an idea. There are others but I don't have time to list them now.

From my perspective, mc had not been doing marriage counseling in a long time and everyone was willing to go along with it. The whole situation kept getting very triangulated with other therapists.
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Pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional.
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  #57  
Old Jan 03, 2018, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LonesomeTonight View Post
So, uh, we basically started termination with MC today...We're not seeing him again for a month and will see how that goes (though he said if we change minds, can call and schedule sooner). Talked about what T had asked me about, had the effective marriage counseling ship sailed a long time ago due to transference. And I said how after the stuff from December, I didn't feel like I could really trust him anymore...He said it could be good for me to stay and work through the conflict with him. I think that actually made me a bit more determined to push through with it.

Texted T from parking lot, seeing him tomorrow afternoon (he rocks!). Was pretty weepy in session and a bit on the way home, but not right now...Though might just be numb, not sure...
I'm proud of you LT.

  #58  
Old Jan 03, 2018, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atisketatasket View Post

And she wants me to rate on a scale of 1 to 10 my trust level in therapists. Gee, what should I put down?
Something to do with Oreos....?
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  #59  
Old Jan 03, 2018, 02:21 PM
awkwardlyyours awkwardlyyours is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atisketatasket View Post
Just printed out Piaf's paperwork.

First of all, it is 24 pages long. Second, large parts of it are not boilerplate but appear to have been drawn up by a lawyer. Third, she details her plan in the event of death or incapacitation and lists her executor.

And she wants me to rate on a scale of 1 to 10 my trust level in therapists. Gee, what should I put down?

ETA: Can't even find any typos.
I’m already in love with Piaf’s...........morbid weirdness.
Thanks for this!
atisketatasket, unaluna
  #60  
Old Jan 03, 2018, 02:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stopdog View Post
I think a lot of them believe that working through a conflict is a benefit and that offering to do so is something that is a good thing. I think it is crap, but reading stuff by them where they flat out say it is what leads me to believe they profess such a thing on a regular basis. I don't think mc was trying to pressure but was leaving the door open sort of thing.
There is this guy (who I think is an asshole but many seem to like him)
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...n-quit-therapy
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...i-what-why-how
who touts such an idea. There are others but I don't have time to list them now
Thanks, SD--I'll check out those links. I got a bit more of a pressure vibe from him, like maybe he expected me to agree with him and go along with it because of the paternal transference. And was surprised when I sort of pushed back.

He did say that, even after we formally terminate, we're always welcome to come back. This month thing is sort of a trial run, I think, see how H and I manage on our own--and I guess how I manage on my own.
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  #61  
Old Jan 03, 2018, 02:27 PM
stopdog stopdog is offline
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A quote from the Howes guy (again - I think he an asshole)
Grudge: Given the emotional nature of many therapy issues, it's not surprising that conflicts between therapist and client sometimes occur. If not adequately addressed and resolved in the therapy, some clients bail. Since therapy is where many people go to figure out relationships, this premature ending is both tragic and ironic.

and this:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...i-introduction
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Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others to live as one wishes to live.
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Well Behaved Women Seldom Make History - Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
Pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional.
  #62  
Old Jan 03, 2018, 02:30 PM
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atisketatasket atisketatasket is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stopdog View Post
A quote from the Howes guy (again - I think he an asshole)
Grudge: Given the emotional nature of many therapy issues, it's not surprising that conflicts between therapist and client sometimes occur. If not adequately addressed and resolved in the therapy, some clients bail. Since therapy is where many people go to figure out relationships, this premature ending is both tragic and ironic.
He forgot to mention it also cuts off the cash flow.
Thanks for this!
LonesomeTonight, stopdog, UnderRugSwept
  #63  
Old Jan 03, 2018, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atisketatasket View Post
He forgot to mention it also cuts off the cash flow.
He is of the evangelistic sort of therapy school - he advocates seeing a therapist even if you don't think anything is wrong. That he gets paid - well he glosses over that part of it.
He is a jerk.
__________________
Please NO @

Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others to live as one wishes to live.
Oscar Wilde
Well Behaved Women Seldom Make History - Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
Pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional.
Thanks for this!
CantExplain
  #64  
Old Jan 03, 2018, 02:34 PM
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From one of the Howes articles--seems applicable to me:
"Beyond specialty, there are also times when interpersonal issues become a barrier to the therapy. In therapy, as in all close relationships, problems with trust, communication, and empathy could render therapy an obstacle rather than a conduit to healing."
and
"One point to consider is whether the obstacle is central to your issues or not...But if you have a fear of heights and your interpersonal issues with the therapist are getting in the way, leaving therapy could be a good option."
Thanks for this!
CantExplain
  #65  
Old Jan 03, 2018, 02:34 PM
stopdog stopdog is offline
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The scale is 1-10? I would write down 0.
__________________
Please NO @

Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others to live as one wishes to live.
Oscar Wilde
Well Behaved Women Seldom Make History - Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
Pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional.
Thanks for this!
CantExplain, LonesomeTonight
  #66  
Old Jan 03, 2018, 02:36 PM
Anonymous57382
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LonesomeTonight View Post
From one of the Howes articles--seems applicable to me:
"Beyond specialty, there are also times when interpersonal issues become a barrier to the therapy. In therapy, as in all close relationships, problems with trust, communication, and empathy could render therapy an obstacle rather than a conduit to healing."
and
"One point to consider is whether the obstacle is central to your issues or not...But if you have a fear of heights and your interpersonal issues with the therapist are getting in the way, leaving therapy could be a good option."
This is it I think. You are there for marriage counselling. Analogous with fear of heights in this quote I think.
Thanks for this!
CantExplain, LonesomeTonight
  #67  
Old Jan 03, 2018, 02:37 PM
stopdog stopdog is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LonesomeTonight View Post
From one of the Howes articles--seems applicable to me:
"Beyond specialty, there are also times when interpersonal issues become a barrier to the therapy. In therapy, as in all close relationships, problems with trust, communication, and empathy could render therapy an obstacle rather than a conduit to healing."
and
"One point to consider is whether the obstacle is central to your issues or not...But if you have a fear of heights and your interpersonal issues with the therapist are getting in the way, leaving therapy could be a good option."
I am not advocating you keep seeing mc - I was just pointing out a good many of them believe in the paying them to work it out sort of idea.
__________________
Please NO @

Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others to live as one wishes to live.
Oscar Wilde
Well Behaved Women Seldom Make History - Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
Pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional.
Thanks for this!
CantExplain, LonesomeTonight
  #68  
Old Jan 03, 2018, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stopdog View Post
I am not advocating you keep seeing mc - I was just pointing out a good many of them believe in the paying them to keep fighting with them thing
Oh, I figured that. I didn't think you'd necessarily advocate for anyone to keep seeing any T
Thanks for this!
CantExplain
  #69  
Old Jan 03, 2018, 02:39 PM
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atisketatasket atisketatasket is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LonesomeTonight View Post
From one of the Howes articles--seems applicable to me:
"Beyond specialty, there are also times when interpersonal issues become a barrier to the therapy. In therapy, as in all close relationships, problems with trust, communication, and empathy could render therapy an obstacle rather than a conduit to healing."
and
"One point to consider is whether the obstacle is central to your issues or not...But if you have a fear of heights and your interpersonal issues with the therapist are getting in the way, leaving therapy could be a good option."
Wouldn't that be better written as, "if you have a fear of heights and your therapist insists on holding sessions on the edge of a cliff, you might want to move on"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by stopdog View Post
The scale is 1-10? I would write down 0.
Was thinking -5. Just to get the point across.
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KYWoman, LonesomeTonight
  #70  
Old Jan 03, 2018, 02:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atisketatasket View Post
He forgot to mention it also cuts off the cash flow.
Tragic and ironic. Those are pretty strong words for our friend Howe. I wonder if that is a more recent post; i havent read him in a long time.

My advice to LT is: you were kinda knowingly poking the bear. I agree with Howe, it WOULD be tragic and ironic now to just run away without facing the bear youve awakened from his slumber. Mostly because the nature of the beast is to run directly into another bear. BUT - sometimes its easier - it definitely was for me - to address the same issues with bear#2, when i saw them happening all over again. But i was like - but bear#1 was a grizzly! And bear#2 is a dancing bear! They are nothing alike! Wth am i talking about...
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  #71  
Old Jan 03, 2018, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Runcible Spoon View Post
This is it I think. You are there for marriage counselling. Analogous with fear of heights in this quote I think.
Yep, that's exactly what I was thinking.

Now, I'm partly seeing current T to help with transference stuff with MC. If transference were to develop with T*, that would be different and could be useful in the therapy. If...say...seeing him caused me to develop a fear of men with beards (he has a beard), which caused issues in my marriage because H also has a beard...then that could be reason to leave. (I'm aware that example makes little sense!)

*I honestly don't think it has so far, maybe a little bit of attachment, but not so much transference--like I'm looking at him and thinking of him as my T. Not random male authority figure or romantic figure.
Thanks for this!
SalingerEsme
  #72  
Old Jan 03, 2018, 04:06 PM
Anonymous43207
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Originally Posted by Runcible Spoon View Post
In my opinion it's absolutely unethical to not respect the client's autonomy and self determination.
I agree! That's what I wanted from mnqye-t, respect for my autonomy and self determination!! I need to have what I want matter!! And if/when I go back I will say that!
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  #73  
Old Jan 03, 2018, 04:08 PM
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Hope I didn't kill the couch...I'm doing strangely OK right now. Worried it's only temporary...hence the scheduling of T tomorrow.
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  #74  
Old Jan 03, 2018, 04:13 PM
Anonymous43207
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I think you rock, LT. Well done.
Thanks for this!
LonesomeTonight
  #75  
Old Jan 03, 2018, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtieSwimsOn View Post
I agree! That's what I wanted from mnqye-t, respect for my autonomy and self determination!! I need to have what I want matter!! And if/when I go back I will say that!
You want to go back to tell her to respect your decision to not go back? Did I miss something?

Oh, and sign me up for the annual fleeing from therapy extravaganza. I gave notice of taking a break, may be permanent.
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