Handling the ambivalence

gerber said something in another thread that was right along the lines of what I have been mulling over lately:
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gerber said:
in my sadness i wonder if maybe i am just an "interesting case" to him

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Recently, I learned some things about what my T thinks about me from a professional viewpoint. Personally, I know he relates to me in session human to human, cares deeply about me, gives me his unconditional positive regard, and has spoken about the closeness and intimacy of our relationship. I feel very secure in that.

But recently I was accidentally forwarded some emails between several professionals working on my legal case, including my T. The topic was me--these people talking all about me in private emails to each other. Wow, it is eye opening to read what they think about me and how they interpret some of the things I've said. The message from my lawyer, especially, had some things in it that were really hurtful. The message from my T I was largely OK with. It did make me feel objectified here and there, and I see now how I am an interesting and challenging case for him. He also mentioned in his message about it being so helpful to have an inside view of this client (me), I guess because of our longstanding therapy sessions and my propensity to be very forthcoming with him, whereas with many clients in the legal process, they wouldn't have this access.

I am struggling a bit with how to balance my knowledge of the depth and intimacy of our therapeutic relationship with his admitted professional relish at the challenges of working with "this client." Because of how he kept referring to me as "this client" in the email (even though they all know my effing name), I started saying stuff in session last time like, "this client believes...." and similar. It was like I was objectifying myself for him in his presence. Let me make it easy for you....

The ambivalence is hard--accepting I am a person he cares for deeply but yet also a client who presents an interesting challenge and about whom he enjoys talking shop with his professional collaborators. Rationally, I know I am both of these things and one does not negate the other. Just because professionally he is challenged by my case does not mean that we do not have an intimate therapeutic relationship. But I still feel on some level that his professional stance on me somehow negates or tarnishes our relationship.

I am so confused.

i understand. My pdoc has written letters for meabout me and it's the same way... Ms Gerber presents with blah blah blah... i especially hated it when he refers to my case as "severe." i kept a copy of the very first one... a painful joke in a way... it's my first hard evidence of being certifiably crazy. In one he actually said i was "unfortunate," and my BP was "difficult" to treat.

but remember, just because he has to "talk shop" doesn't mean he enjoys talking about you that way... it's required when it's with other professionals. Every "system" out there makes people into things somehow. i am really close with my chiro, but she has to talk about me the same way. The legal/medical system wouldn't work very well if it was kept as personified as we'd like.

it is unfortunate when we see that side though... it isn't pleasant to be the one objectified.

sunny I think it would be very hard to read those emails and remember that T was writing to someone else. I mean, I know you are fully aware he's writing to someone else, but at the time you're reading T's words it must seem remote instead of intimate.

It know it would be very hard for me to become a 'third person' instead of 'second person'.

Sunny,

Your post struck me as one where you were faced with opposing views of yourself.

Have you ever felt that way before? I know that i would have freaked out if I read those e-mails and I wonder if you discussed them with T? I wouldn't have been able to contain myself but I know you are better at that then I am!!

For me, it would have made me feel like I did in my childhood when I was expecting something from my mother more than just the required food on the table.

Peace

Thanks everyone.

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gerber said:
but remember, just because he has to "talk shop" doesn't mean he enjoys talking about you that way...

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">Gerber, actually, I think he does enjoy it, but I think I can hold that this could be true as well as that he and I are close. I can see that he enjoys a challenging case and working with the other professionals to unravel it and "bring it home" to success, which I think he would define as a healing uncoupling for both partners. I'm lucky to have him, but did feel a bit of what you described when you read the letter from your pdoc. It is a jolt to read that stuff and see that you are not only a human with whom they share intense and intimate experiences, but a client/patient, whom they categorize and fit into their framework of professional knowledge.

ECHOES, thanks for understanding. Yes, T's words did seem remote. And I was having this weird sense of being pushed and pulled next time I saw him, pendulating between being sunny, the human he really knows and gets, and being sunny, his client who is professionally interesting to him. That's why at times during that session, I referred to myself in third person, "this client is worried about blah blah blah," instead of "I'm worried." It was a way of my saying, without having to say it, "hey, T, this is something about me you may be professionally interested in."

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sister said:
I know that i would have freaked out if I read those e-mails and I wonder if you discussed them with T? I wouldn't have been able to contain myself but I know you are better at that then I am!!

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">Sister, the email that really upset me was the one about me from my lawyer, and no, I didn't contain myself well at all with her! I wrote her a long email telling her how I felt about what she had written. I thought it was progress that I told her how I felt, as my usual reaction would be to ignore my hurt and not tell the person. I struggled with that, even thinking, "I wasn't meant to read these messages, so I'll just pretend I never saw them, and won't tell anyone." But I rejected this ultimate containment strategy because I knew it would harm my relationship with my lawyer, and it was too important to me--we do have a strong connectedness. So I saw it as huge progress for me that I told her my feelings instead of stuffing them. We talked on the phone and kind of repaired things, however, I don't think I did it well at all, and this has made me realize how much I need to learn better communication skills. When she tried to repair, I had a hard time "hearing" her because I was so flooded with my feelings. It must have been very frustrating and even hurtful for her to have me reject her efforts at communication like that. Sometimes, I am really embarrassed to be me.

After our phone call, I had session with T, and in the meantime, my lawyer called him to chat. So by the time I got in his office, he knew some of the story. We talked about it some, primarily what the lawyer had written and what it meant. He did ask once if I was "OK" with him, and I think he was giving me an opening to discuss his email, but his email was not so upsetting to me, didn't hurt me so deeply like the lawyer's had. I just felt some objectification of me in it, and we did talk about a couple of lines he'd written, and he wanted me to understand them better. I'm just struggling a bit on my own, as I've written in this thread, to handle the ambivalence. But this has not ruptured my relationship with T.

(Sister, this is what I mean when I've written elsewhere that I have so much going on in therapy that I can't take time out to talk about dolls and dreams.)

Sunny, I can see how upsetting this is truly. Sometimes it is hard to remember that we 'hired T' to help us and when they try to make good on that we feel like a clinical specimen of sorts'.

Me included as you'll see in my recent post! It is a difficult balance for our T's and us because on one hand, without the sensitive, caring T and the connections we make in therapy, there wouldn't be an interesting challenging case for them to discuss. We wouldn't go a step further...

I can guarantee you my dear, I am one of those challenging cases too. How were you able to read these emails?

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almeda24fan said:
Sometimes it is hard to remember that we 'hired T' to help us

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">I guess I am getting too literal at forgetting that, as last session, I left without paying him. Whoops.

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How were you able to read these emails?

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">A secretary was emailing me something and accidentally included them. Easy mistake to make. I hope she didn't get in trouble. (But I bet she'll be more careful from now on.)

Sunrise,
I can definitely see how reading these correspondences would be upsetting. Especially having read some of your other posts where you indicate how great and personal your relationship with your T is. One thing that struck me most about your post was your interpretation of the "This client believes...." reference in the emails. I can see how you would feel objectified by being referred to in this manner and not by your name. I work in an allied health field where we are constantly writing various medical documents. In my area we are trained to write these notes in objective, factual ways. Most of the medical documents I write list the patient's name and identification number at the top of the record. From that point on more generic terms are used. Pt. is a 25 yr old female who c/o right lateral ankle pain.... Often the standards for these records are ..skip the embellishments, feeling, empathy..etc and present in an accurate and concise way the relevant facts. Regardless of whether your T genuinely thinks of you in a more holistic human way, when writing about you he likely slips in to standard medical documentation mode.

Another thing to consider is that email is not a secure way to exchange personal/medical information. Knowing what I know about computer technology, I don't put anything in an email message that I wouldn't leave on my desk. There are so many ways others can gain access to this information. The fact that it was inadvertently sent to you is one case in point. By him referring to simply as "the client" throughout the message might be a good thing. He might have been protecting your privacy .

In the end the relationship that you and your T have is between you and him. Your medical record and these emails are not intended to capture this. Their purpose is to exchange the basic facts only. The others in the group don't need to know the finer details of this relationship. In some ways by sticking to the factual information and only referring to you as "the client" he might have actually shown you he actually cares about protecting you.

I hope you continue to talk openly with him. It sounds by your posts you two have a good connection.

Thanks, McKell. It is so useful to have your perspective, as a healthcare provider, on this. I actually thought what T wrote about me was OK! I felt a bit objectified, but on the whole, I was OK with it, especially in comparison to what my lawyer wrote. I think your point, though, about the "language" that the professions speak among themselves applies really well to my lawyer, and I really need to keep in mind that even though what she wrote seemed like plain English to me, it contained embedded jargon that means something very different to other professionals, even though the actual words are ones we all hear everyday. As time passes, I am moving toward that understanding. Just hard to have it immediately when I was feeling so hurt by what was written.

I actually think reading what T wrote about me was good, in a way. I have a deeper understanding now of who he is and how he thinks, his hopes for me on this journey, and how he sees his role in this process. It just takes me a while to come to this, to get over feeling a bit objectified. But I think I'm there.

Thanks again!

I suppose it is fairly similar to over hearing your friends talking about you/analysiing you when they dont realise you can hear.

I insist on reading all correspondence about me. It helps me remember that i am 'the client' and stops me seeing the therpy room as almost this 'alternative private universe'.

What has hurt me most, as it would if you were overhearing friends, is when they express less than complimentary views that they havent said in person. or, lsightly different, they HAVE told you but in a very different way nad in a way that conveys a very different ATTITUDE. For instance a friend might tell you your new dress wasnt qutie her style but hten you hear her saying how she 'couldnt believe ......'s dress sense!!!'

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toffeellen said:
I insist on reading all correspondence about me.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">That's not possible for me due to the arrangement I made with the professionals working for me. But one thing I am reflecting on now, in that space beyond being hurt like I was at first, is that one of the people (not my T) wrote that the 3 of them needed to put their heads together and develop a strategy for how best they can support me. That is a nice sentiment. They all want to be on the same page and not working at cross purposes. But, as I think about this more, I would like to have some input into that. I have some ideas about how they could support me, things they may not have thought of. Was my input going to be sought on this? It just seems weird to me. Shouldn't I be very involved in this? I feel like a person who is having something "done" to her. (I guess it's good I still feel like a person.)

Well, I'm proud of myself because I just had a phone conversation with this person who wanted to develop the team strategy to support me, and I asked her if the gang would find it useful have my input on how I could best be supported. She said absolutely! and that would be so helpful. She said to make a list or we could talk about it at another time. The reason I'm proud is because it can be really hard for me to bring up my needs and wants with people and tell them what would help make me more satisfied. I am learning to do this and am much better at this now! This is all due to progress I have made in therapy. I didn't go to therapy for this reason, but it is helping me do better at having give and take relationships with people. I am becoming more functional at interacting with people.

sunny that is so good you spoke up for you!

that can be a hurdle to get over, thinking if they'd wanted it they would have asked; ;and they didn't ask so.... well i think i would have slid down that slope

I'm glad you're proud of you!!