Current situation with T

Ts subconscious should not be in the room.

I think it's inevitably in the room in any therapeutic relationship. But when a part of the therapist's unconscious is raised to awareness I think the therapist has a duty to acknowledge it and spot it the next time so that it doesn't negatively impact on the relationship again. I think that's why I am so frustrated with him, because we have been here before and he hasn't spotted it, again.

The father's day message thing is a bit strange to me too. I have wished my T happy mother's day and she has wished the same to me (we are both mothers, but not to each other ). Also it is obvious that T has played a maternal role of some kind to me, and also that alone could be the reason to wish her happy mother's day. Like someone said, that is some good material to therapy itself. But maybe your T didn't mean anything negative with the alongside-thing? Could it just have been an invitation to talk about the meanings. I think everything I decide to say or do in therapy, is kind of open to discussion. Sometimes it is annoying and I would just rather act, but I am used to it that everything can be opened up and sometimes misunderstandings happen.

It does rather hinge in the meaning of "alongside". It could be a misunderstaning.

I guess I could ask for further clarification. He seemed to be trying to clarify when he said he was looking at it from the point of view of a father. It didn't help much. And he started clarifying more before stopping himself because he had just finished saying that perhaps my interpretation is more important than what he was feeling. It certainly felt to me that his response to the email had its basis in his discomfort.

Agree.

I've straight up told my T I wish she was a substitute parent to me, I view her as a substitute parent, that she had adopted me when I was a child etc. She has always accepted these intense attachment feelings. Hell, in her modality of schema therapy, the clinician books say it's not uncommon for clients to have such feelings and to indeed sometimes even see the therapist as a substitute parent and keep in contact after therapy ends.

And she's fine with that?
Because some Ts have stated categorically that they see people only as patients, only in session, and that can never change.

To be fair I've said that sort of stuff too I think, and he has been fine with it in a "these are my feelings" way. It's just that somehow he took the message to be something different from me just expressing my feelings.

Yup, she's fine with occasional email contact (not email therapy) after we end. But we'll never be friends. For those clinicians, according to the books, I think the mindset is they're always going to be somewhat in the therapist role. If clients need to return to therapy, it's encouraged they return to their former therapist.

And the books encourage and give various examples of outside contact inbetween sessions for current patients.

Ah! The Secret Scriptures.

I think there's a difference in the type of relationship echos has to her therapist and the level of work they're doing, and that it's even different for him from the kind of relationship he has with other clients. He's been willing to go deeper into things and that means he's going to bump up against his own conflicts and fears and be honest with echos about that. So this exchange seems to me to be more than just telling a therapist they're like a parent and having them accept that. He is responded in a way that wasn't in therapist mode, and it's causing a disruption. He needs to (and will, based on the past) explore what's going on for him and echos needs to (and will) get to a pattern that's being triggered. Most therapists won't do this kind of work. They have to put a lot more of themselves on the line, but I see in echos case that her therapist is showing her a lot of trust in return. I guess that's what I would keep reminding myself if I were her.

So, aside from the semantics, of what your T actually did or didn't mean: It's the eternal pain of not being seen or heard properly, isn't it? Maybe it's more about the sadness and the grief of not being seen in the past and not being able to express your emotions (all of them) back then. And whether you can allow to express this grief with T at your side, who turns out just good enough but not perfect? And now this place next to your T doesn't feel safe enough any more, so your conclusion could be I'm not safe anymore to express myself right here, next to T. (At least this would be my initial gut conclusion...)

I don't want diminish your pain and the turmoil you're in, Echos, just trying to open up different perspectives which might give you a lose end from which to start to untangle.

Also, for me: It took me years of therapy to actually find my emotional voice. Which for me not only meant expressing my emotions but also getting in touch with them first. Up until then I was flying underneath the radar all the time, without even noticing. So now, when I'm speaking from this emotional place, showing T (or whomever else) this side of mine that has been in the dark for so long, I feel extra vulnerable. And being mis-seen or mis-heard in that place stings extra badly.

Yet part of this 'extra' pain is the pain of the past, I think (preaching to myself here as well). This pain stems from times when it really was too painful and too dangerous to show those emotions freely and to share them with the person alongside (SCNR ) you. Which takes you or me or anybody else back to the question whether it's more about grieving what never happened and should have happened in the past? And through this grieving process hopefully coming to a place where risks aren't out of question any longer?

Yeah and I guess that's why it feels really difficult for my T sometimes. He has said that he finds our work rewarding, though I know it's challenging too. You are right, we both have work to do to get through this, and I think I have faith that we both will too. This thread has been very helpful for allowing myself to feel hope about the situation and faith in us as a team.

I think ultimately this is why it is worth doing. Because it's a grief I need to acknowledge, and these are feelings that need a space to emerge. It's certainly more than just what is happening between the two of us right now. That's probably true for both of us, but I think I have a tendency sometimes to over-focus on his part in it, because my history and feelings about my past are very difficult for me to access and explore directly. I guess I am expressing that grief in my feelings towards him, it's going to be a matter of connecting up those dots.