[justbreathe1994]

I had a difficult session today, in which I argued with my therapist about whether it is okay to be dependent on her for meeting (some of) my needs. She does not think so, she believes therapy is about “sampling” what I can find and foster in the real world. She’s there to show me and “help” me find in my outside life but not to be the one to satiate me. I actually thought of this metaphor and asked her if that’s what she meant - she said “yes, exactly!”

I find this so triggering. She of course acknowledged that we’re human and humans have needs, so my needs may be getting met indirectly in the therapy room, but the goal is for me to not depend on her for those. She wants me to be constantly working towards this, so she does not even want me to feel dependent on her now and therefore will not “encourage” or “engage” with those feelings. I can always talk about the feelings of course, but she will not act on them. This got me thinking that there are probably different degrees of dependence. However I think she probably feels that my dependence on her as the sole provider of the things I need is problematic.

Thoughts? Is dependence not helpful? Are there different degrees of dependence and are lower degrees okay? I mostly want reassurance that my therapist isn’t being cruel, but it’s still tough to be reminded of the therapist relationship at times. She also told me that she has no interest in me being a part of her life outside, which felt cold and cruel but that’s a topic for a whole different thread.

[here today]

Do you have relationships outside T which are satisfying? I'm not a fan of therapy in general. But I don't know that my view of that will be be helpful.

It seems ok to me to feel dependent on a therapist for some things, but she could be trying to do something good for you-helping to empower you.

Here approach sounds a bit harsh-i wonder if she's trying to help you get unstuck-are you feeling stuck lately?

Here are some related opinions:

When Therapy Becomes an Addiction | Psychology Today

Is Your Therapist Re-Traumatizing You? | Psychology Today

[Taylor27]

I think it is ok to depend on the therapist. I only see mine once a month and i do depend on him. Im sorry your therapist feels different. Every therapist is so different on dependancy. I have major trust issues from my past so it is important for me to feel i can trust my therapist to handle what i tell him and be able to help me if he cannot i trust he will refere me out. It's very tough for sure. Hugs

[Anne2.0]

I think it's different to get certain needs met in therapy-- for understanding about what's tough for you, validation for an experience past or more in present, support for doing what is right for you and avoiding social pressure-- than to "depend" on the therapist for these.

I would not try to depend on someone who has said they don't want to be depended on. I think in a perfect world improving our social relationships is a great goal and, for me, an effect of therapy. But I think that the kind of validation and support and understanding I get for certain things in my life, like stressful work, there is not really a substitute for therapy in the real world. My therapist can handle discussions about the trauma that saturates the field I work in, but my friends really can't. I don't want to burden them with the details that can sometime haunt me or my frustration that we have no viable systems that can help change people's lives. My T can handle that.

There might be other analogs for other people, that a T can uniquely help in ways that friends and family cannot. That being said, I wonder if your T is more interested in helping you improve your relationships as opposed to being dependent on her, and that might be something worth discussing directly, as in "I want to have deeper, more connected, open relationships with my x and y," or whatever, if that is a goal for you.

[ChickenNoodleSoup]

I think dependency isn't healthy in general. My T always stresses that in independence is one of the goals of therapy. There are ways of having needs met without being dependent on the person.

I'd say I am certainly dependent on therapy to some degree. I can't go more than two weeks without having a crisis. And I need somebody to be there in that moment and friends can't really deal with this on such a frequent basis. So I depend on my T. But at the same time, I have come to realize that I don't need HIM, I just need somebody like him. If he were to die (which we have discussed quite a bit), I'd feel sad. But I'd go out and try to replace him. That would be different if I were dependent on him, because then I'd feel it's not possible to replace him.

Depending on your issues, it's expected that you will be a bit dependent. The T shouldn't encourage it though, sicne then you just want more and more. Instead the T should help you to find the things you need within yourself. That doesn't necessarily mean that you can't ever ask for something, but in my opinion it means you don't feel there's only one person in the world you could ever ask for these kind of things. Of course sometimes the T can also help you with needs, for example having somebody who comforts you. But it shouldn't be on a constant basis, the norm should be that they help not need that from them.

There's things I talk about with t that I really don't want to burden my friends with.

Then again in some ways I probably am addicted to therapy. I was happy being quit for a month. Went back for one or two sessions for a specific thing... But that quickly became a commitment to 3 more months of weekly sessions (I'd been going every 2 weeks) which has 2 months left of it now.

I'm restless and wanting out again but know it's cuz of what we're working on now. Although she's on vacation this week.

[justbreathe1994]

Originally Posted by ChickenNoodleSoup

I think dependency isn't healthy in general. My T always stresses that in independence is one of the goals of therapy. There are ways of having needs met without being dependent on the person.

I'd say I am certainly dependent on therapy to some degree. I can't go more than two weeks without having a crisis. And I need somebody to be there in that moment and friends can't really deal with this on such a frequent basis. So I depend on my T. But at the same time, I have come to realize that I don't need HIM, I just need somebody like him. If he were to die (which we have discussed quite a bit), I'd feel sad. But I'd go out and try to replace him. That would be different if I were dependent on him, because then I'd feel it's not possible to replace him.

Depending on your issues, it's expected that you will be a bit dependent. The T shouldn't encourage it though, sicne then you just want more and more. Instead the T should help you to find the things you need within yourself. That doesn't necessarily mean that you can't ever ask for something, but in my opinion it means you don't feel there's only one person in the world you could ever ask for these kind of things. Of course sometimes the T can also help you with needs, for example having somebody who comforts you. But it shouldn't be on a constant basis, the norm should be that they help not need that from them.

Thank you for this! So much of what you said here I think my T would agree with. I think she even stated something last night along the lines of, “it’s not helpful to depend on me as the fulfiller of those needs”. I am struggling because logically I have realized I shouldn’t need the actual person in the way that I feel I need her. That’s amazing that you are in a place where you know you don’t need your T but just the things he gives you! I am defintely not there yet, lol. I think I am afraid that being able to rely on others or finding others to meet my needs will feel so generic. I’m afraid I will lose the connection with my T if I do that.

[growlycat]

I think I read somewhere that therapists aim for “optimal frustration”. They aren’t supposed to fully meet our needs but if they are too off-putting then a patient will leave. It’s the carrot on the stick.

I am guilty of meeting some needs via therapy and not in real life. But I am improving and moving towards that goal. I personally think it is cruel for a therapist to be too withholding and maybe not good in the long run to be too indulgent.

[Calla lily12]

I told my T that I was sorry for being so needy. He said "Needy is perfectly ok".

[BudFox]

In my experience, dependency is beneficial to the therapist, detrimental to the client. Yet the client pays.

If your therapist provokes dependency then frames it as a problem, as seemingly many do, it's doubly absurd, like prescribing a powerfully addictive drug then disowning the consequences.

If the therapist pulls back and becomes indifferent, as seemingly many do, then it starts to look emotional abuse in my opinion.

Also I dont see how the client or the therapist can calibrate just the right amount of dependency. It's a pandora's box kind of thing, which cannot be predicted or controlled. Russian roulette basically, with the client assuming all the risk.

[Amyjay]

Dependence on the therapist for what?

I depend on the therapist to have the knowledge and skills to help me with the things I need help with.
I depend on the therapist to be consistent in time, place and presence.
I depend on the therapist to be 100% there for me in our sessions together.

What else could someone depend on a therapist for?

[koru_kiwi]

Originally Posted by growlycat

I think I read somewhere that therapists aim for “optimal frustration”. They aren’t supposed to fully meet our needs but if they are too off-putting then a patient will leave. It’s the carrot on the stick.

yup....ex-T definitly hit my 'optimal frustration' target often in my therapy. he dangled the carrot just close enough to keep me hooked and engaged in the relationship with him, but never close enough for me to be satiated by it.

Originally Posted by koru_kiwi

yup....ex-T definitly hit my 'optimal frustration' target often in my therapy. he dangled the carrot just close enough to keep me hooked and engaged in the relationship with him, but never close enough for me to be satiated by it.

I wonder off and on if my t does this... dangling carrot thing..... cuz I keep going back.....

I think that the psychotherapy relationship can uncover painful buried feelings, and for the relationship to help to deal with those feelings, the T has to metaphorically hold your hand and help to soothe those feelings. I think that if the T doesn't then therapy can be a painful and pointless reenactment of early trauma. I think that one needs to be able to depend on one's T to give you support for all the feelings that come up.

[blackocean]

Originally Posted by Amyjay

Dependence on the therapist for what?

I depend on the therapist to have the knowledge and skills to help me with the things I need help with.
I depend on the therapist to be consistent in time, place and presence.
I depend on the therapist to be 100% there for me in our sessions together.

What else could someone depend on a therapist for?

It's not a real dependency, but an emotional dependency generated by the "hit" of emotional attention when someone has no one else in their life to give them emotional support (or lacked it as a child). It's dependency in the addictive sense, not the literal sense. This is also how predatory personalities "hook" vulnerable hurting people, which is why it is so scary to think about how many therapists might be exploiting it for financial or personal gain.

[BudFox]

Scarier still to consider that many therapists probably aren't even aware they are exploiting people and creating addicts. Some are probably too busy feeding their own addictions, which could lead to dangerous co-dependency that is never recognized. Or their faith in the gospel prevents seeing it. Informed consent should warn about risk of addiction.

[stopdog]

I think sometimes the therapist approaches this based on their assumption that they know what a client needs. To me, this is the height of arrogance on their part. The two I saw both became giddy any time I would appear even the tiniest bit like I was reaching out to them. They both actively encouraged me to call or contact them. I do not think either considered I would become dependent upon them to any worrisome degree.

[koru_kiwi]

Originally Posted by BudFox

Scarier still to consider that many therapists probably aren't even aware they are exploiting people and creating addicts. Some are probably too busy feeding their own addictions, which could lead to dangerous co-dependency that is never recognized. Or their faith in the gospel prevents seeing it.

this is my 'go-to' excuse to cover my ex-Ts arse for the relationship becoming overwhelmingly addictive for me. i want to believe that he had his heart in the right place, that he meant no harm, and that he was too arrogant and clueless to actually see or understand what was taking place right in front of him. i hate to think that he would have set out purposefully to do this, so this excuse makes my experience much more palatable for me to swallow, while providing him with the benefit of the doubt

[winterblues17]

I think having dependence on my T is something that is not only ok but for me needs to happen in the sense, I need to be able to depend on her being on time and reliable, kind and supportive, and depend that with her knowledge and experiences she is putting my needs first. I need to depend on her for emotional support when I need it and depend that she's a safe person for me. I think without depending on her for these things, progress would be very limited for me because I'm not a big talker generally.

I think there is a balance though and over dependencey can bring negatives, if my deprndcy got to a point where I needed to talk to her everyday, or that I felt I couldn't make a decision without her or even breathe without her then obviously that would be depending on her too much and we would need to relook at the relationship, but as it stands I think I've got the balance pretty much where I need it.

I suppose depending on someone yet keeping your own independence

[Anne2.0]

Originally Posted by blackocean

It's not a real dependency, but an emotional dependency generated by the "hit" of emotional attention when someone has no one else in their life to give them emotional support (or lacked it as a child). It's dependency in the addictive sense, not the literal sense. This is also how predatory personalities "hook" vulnerable hurting people, which is why it is so scary to think about how many therapists might be exploiting it for financial or personal gain.

I don't see any dependency in proper therapy, as addiction as a concept is applicable only when there is harm involved. And I reserve exploitation, which does happen in therapy, to financial (as in hey client, give me a loan or join me in this business venture) or to sexual. A person who pays for a service is not being exploited, as long as they get what they pay for.

I think the person who needs emotional attention is an ordinary human being. Nothing wrong with seeking the attention of a therapist for a therapy session and the people who have no to little emotional support elsewhere perhaps are those who need it the most. If the therapy is not harmful to the person-- if they are not scraping together their last pennies and starving their children so they can afford therapy, if they are not suffering as a result of it-- I don't see how that is "addiction" even if you assume that the emotional attention is all the person gets. Otherwise I'm addicted to fresh watermelon and swimming laps in the pool. In my world, people are supposed to do what feels good to them, whether they pay for therapy or sacro-cranial massage or an eyeshadow set. If someone is enjoying the attention that is obviously a part of therapy and forming a social connection that may help them generate that in real life, that's good in my book. Much better that the suffering caused by being alone, being institutionalized in a mental health hospital that is hardly different from a prison, or a mentally ill person ending up in jails and prisons.

I don't believe in the concept of addition to therapy unless the client is being harmed by it. I don't doubt that some people are harmed by therapy and that addiction is some form might keep them there. If they really can't afford it but are addicted, or if their lives are suffering in any other way by going to therapy, then I hope they can find a way out. I guess I feel pretty confident that most adult people in therapy can decided for themselves whether it works and can stop if they feel they don't benefit from it. I don't think anyone else can judge whether someone else's therapy works for them.

But if people are going to therapy and it benefits them in whatever way makes sense to them, I hope they continue to use it. It's actually rational to do things that make you feel good, so I keep buying local watermelon and using my pool pass. And going to therapy, and the mere fact that I keep going to therapy is not evidence of my addiction, but proof that I am taking the best care of myself that I can.

[blackocean]

Originally Posted by Anne2.0

I don't see any dependency in proper therapy, as addiction as a concept is applicable only when there is harm involved. And I reserve exploitation, which does happen in therapy, to financial (as in hey client, give me a loan or join me in this business venture) or to sexual. A person who pays for a service is not being exploited, as long as they get what they pay for.

I think the person who needs emotional attention is an ordinary human being. Nothing wrong with seeking the attention of a therapist for a therapy session and the people who have no to little emotional support elsewhere perhaps are those who need it the most. If the therapy is not harmful to the person-- if they are not scraping together their last pennies and starving their children so they can afford therapy, if they are not suffering as a result of it-- I don't see how that is "addiction" even if you assume that the emotional attention is all the person gets. Otherwise I'm addicted to fresh watermelon and swimming laps in the pool. In my world, people are supposed to do what feels good to them, whether they pay for therapy or sacro-cranial massage or an eyeshadow set. If someone is enjoying the attention that is obviously a part of therapy and forming a social connection that may help them generate that in real life, that's good in my book. Much better that the suffering caused by being alone, being institutionalized in a mental health hospital that is hardly different from a prison, or a mentally ill person ending up in jails and prisons.

I don't believe in the concept of addition to therapy unless the client is being harmed by it. I don't doubt that some people are harmed by therapy and that addiction is some form might keep them there. If they really can't afford it but are addicted, or if their lives are suffering in any other way by going to therapy, then I hope they can find a way out. I guess I feel pretty confident that most adult people in therapy can decided for themselves whether it works and can stop if they feel they don't benefit from it. I don't think anyone else can judge whether someone else's therapy works for them.

But if people are going to therapy and it benefits them in whatever way makes sense to them, I hope they continue to use it. It's actually rational to do things that make you feel good, so I keep buying local watermelon and using my pool pass. And going to therapy, and the mere fact that I keep going to therapy is not evidence of my addiction, but proof that I am taking the best care of myself that I can.

I think it often does happen in proper therapy for certain clients because of the one-sided nature of the relationship. I guess I'm just talking as someone this thing continually happens to. I keep being targeted by predators for my emotional vulnerability and neglect and the 'need' I felt for them as they groomed me is feeling a little like the 'need' I am now already experiencing for my therapist after only several months of him showing emotional attention to me. This kind of dependency has pathological origin -- the reason it happens is one reason why the patient is in therapy in the first place -- and good therapists anticipate this happening, know this and work through this with the intensely attached client, while bad therapists don't work on it or maybe understand it (causing harm accidentally), and a few predatory therapists exploit it by cultivating a sexual or otherwise exploitative relationship. You know that your emotional connection is becoming dependent, rather than simply warm and comforting, when you experience agony during the week apart or during short breaks and find yourself unable to function without the therapist. That's addiction -- you don't find yourself unable to function if you don't get to eat watermelon for a couple weeks. Or if someone who once held your hand has decided to stop holding it, dangling the carrot and then pulling back. I'm not talking about simply looking forward to therapy because it is a highlight of your week or because you enjoy your therapist's company and attention, but about an intense feeling of need that interferes with your ability to live your life outside of therapy. And to be clear I don't think there is any shame in this, it happens to me, but it isn't healthy -- it's a sign of unhealthy attachment patterns that need working through.

[Anne2.0]

Originally Posted by blackocean

I'm not talking about simply looking forward to therapy because it is a highlight of your week or because you enjoy your therapist's company and attention, but about an intense feeling of need that interferes with your ability to live your life outside of therapy. And to be clear I don't think there is any shame in this, it happens to me, but it isn't healthy -- it's a sign of unhealthy attachment patterns that need working through.

Yes, I understand what you mean and appreciate the example, I would also call this addiction to therapy because harm is being done. Therapy is not supposed to cause harm or interfere with the rest of one's life. I'm sorry this has been your experience and it absolutely isn't something to be ashamed about. I hope you are able to move forward in a positive way.

[BudFox]

People can be exploited in ways other than sexual or financial. Some therapists appear to need client adulation to feel good about themselves. They love-bomb or attention-bomb the client, which traps the client in dependency, and the therapist feeds on the worship for as long as it's workable. Or they feed on the controlled and risk-free (for them) intimacy. I have experienced this. Doesn't have to be intentional or malicious.

Also I think therapy is exploitive generally. Their marketing is predatory, with many wildly exaggerated claims and promises aimed at vulnerable types. Finally, they say, you will get the understanding and love you deserve! Call today!

[SlumberKitty]

Originally Posted by justbreathe1994

I had a difficult session today, in which I argued with my therapist about whether it is okay to be dependent on her for meeting (some of) my needs. She does not think so, she believes therapy is about “sampling” what I can find and foster in the real world. She’s there to show me and “help” me find in my outside life but not to be the one to satiate me. I actually thought of this metaphor and asked her if that’s what she meant - she said “yes, exactly!”

I find this so triggering. She of course acknowledged that we’re human and humans have needs, so my needs may be getting met indirectly in the therapy room, but the goal is for me to not depend on her for those. She wants me to be constantly working towards this, so she does not even want me to feel dependent on her now and therefore will not “encourage” or “engage” with those feelings. I can always talk about the feelings of course, but she will not act on them. This got me thinking that there are probably different degrees of dependence. However I think she probably feels that my dependence on her as the sole provider of the things I need is problematic.

Thoughts? Is dependence not helpful? Are there different degrees of dependence and are lower degrees okay? I mostly want reassurance that my therapist isn’t being cruel, but it’s still tough to be reminded of the therapist relationship at times. She also told me that she has no interest in me being a part of her life outside, which felt cold and cruel but that’s a topic for a whole different thread.

Speaking of my 2nd T here because 1st T was a long time ago, and 3rd T was scary and Tony the Tiger T is too new for me to have any dependency on....I was at times dependent on my T to show empathy or kindness towards me when I was going through hard stuff. I depended on her to be consistent. I depended on her to be relaxed with me when I was anxious and upset. I depended on her to be there for me for that hour that I was paying her and not be somewhere else in her mind or thinking of another client. I depended on my T to show me options that I couldn't see and give me perspectives that I couldn't see. I depended on my T to share her knowledge of my problems so I could get better and heal. I depended on my T to give me a sense of security in that I could be as messed up during session as needed and she wasn't going to run away screaming. Basically for me dependency also went along with trust. I couldn't depend on T for any of these things until I trusted T. I don't know if that makes sense.