[PurpleBlur]

session today wasnt great.


t calls my dark/shadow side the wolf (I refer to myself as a wolf in sheep's clothing) and the wolf was out most of the session... I told her I didn't want her ugly face and I turned her chair all the way around to face the wall.

then after 15 seconds i turned her around again and asked for a hug and she says oh, are you sure you want a hug from me with my ugly face?

I think shes very baffled by my behavior today.

I think I'm baffled too... I don't know why, exactly I did it. I'm just familiar with the pattern.


I'm going to destroy this relationship even though I dont want to. I just feel compelled in the moment to do these things.

Perhaps shes not baffled, but pointing out your duplicity regarding what you need from her.

[Lemoncake]

"I hate you don't leave me". Is the title of one of the few books i've read on Bpd.

My T brought up part theory which was what we worked with. Ive always felt very fragmented and relatively stuck at the ages of 4,7 and my current age of 27. The youngest couldn't talk at all and just cried. The oldest was hostile, very sexualized and said things I didn't mean. It was about giving time to each and hearing what each had to say. But with time he made me see that even though i had parts it was still collectively me. With time even the youngest found her voice. I learnt to recognize my behavior.

In another paper by a psychiatrist he talked about there being five stages. The second was hostility, most of the healing was done in the third stage when deep trust had been established. You are where you are and that's okay.

[here today]

Therapists were not able to tolerate or help me deal with my dark self, what I call a demon self. Therapy was a place where I allowed it to "be" and eventually I have come to understand and accept it, but therapists did not.

I understand about feeling like a wolf in sheep's clothing. Dogs come from wolves, if there had never been any wolves, there would not be any dogs. Can you make friends with your wolf? Even if your therapist can't?

[junkDNA]

Originally Posted by Lemoncake

"I hate you don't leave me". Is the title of one of the few books i've read on Bpd.

My T brought up part theory which was what we worked with. Ive always felt very fragmented and relatively stuck at the ages of 4,7 and my current age of 27. The youngest couldn't talk at all and just cried. The oldest was hostile, very sexualized and said things I didn't mean. It was about giving time to each and hearing what each had to say. But with time he made me see that even though i had parts it was still collectively me. With time even the youngest found her voice. I learnt to recognize my behavior.

In another paper by a psychiatrist he talked about there being five stages. The second was hostility, most of the healing was done in the third stage when deep trust had been established. You are where you are and that's okay.

There's another very good but very long book about a woman's experience with BPD and therapy... it's called Get Me Out of Here. My T let me borrow it and read it. One of the few accounts I could relate to in regards to being in therapy with BPD and the relationship with one's therapist as a part of recovery

[Anne2.0]

Originally Posted by PurpleBlur

I'm going to destroy this relationship even though I dont want to. I just feel compelled in the moment to do these things.

For me the challenge has been to recognize that I don't have to act on my feelings. Feeling compelled and being compelled are two different things in my experience. I have worked to separate the two, and to respond rather than react (at least some of the time). During this last round of T with someone who practices Buddhism (I don't, but I do find a lot of the concepts and reading useful), I have found it useful to try to be more intentional in what and say and do, and things are better for me the more I can do that.

I think it is unfortunate when therapists qualify different behaviors and feelings as good or bad, wanted or unwanted, suggesting that some elements of us are dark or like an evil shadow. I think people develop these kinds of perceptions about themselves exactly because they were told early on that some parts and motivations are unwanted and need to be suppressed, isolated etc. I think this is what often creates a sense of fragmented self in the first place and sometimes Ts cultivate it further.

I also think that we don't need to act on our feelings, but never voicing them is not good either. Maybe the thing is to learn to resist momentary impulses and express negative stuff in meaningful ways that can be discussed and used in problem solving.

[here today]

[QUOTE =Xynesthesia]. . .
I also think that we don't need to act on our feelings, but never voicing them is not good either. Maybe the thing is to learn to resist momentary impulses and express negative stuff in meaningful ways that can be discussed and used in problem solving.[/QUOTE]

I don't know about the OP but this was precisely the usual cultural expectation that was not possible for me in the fragmented state in which I entered therapy oh so many years ago. The disconnected parts had to have a place where they could "act out" in order for the normally conscious me to see and begin to understand. I could then begin some process of trying to moderate those -- parts, feelings, impulses, action-systems, whatever you want to call them. I am much better at it now, but I wasn't even 20 years ago. I could keep them cut off, in order to be socially acceptable, as I have said before, but with consequences, not just in the world, but for me, including major depression.

[PurpleBlur]

Originally Posted by Trace62

Perhaps shes not baffled, but pointing out your duplicity regarding what you need from her.

duplicity?

[PurpleBlur]

Originally Posted by Xynesthesia

I think it is unfortunate when therapists qualify different behaviors and feelings as good or bad, wanted or unwanted, suggesting that some elements of us are dark or like an evil shadow. I think people develop these kinds of perceptions about themselves exactly because they were told early on that some parts and motivations are unwanted and need to be suppressed, isolated etc. I think this is what often creates a sense of fragmented self in the first place and sometimes Ts cultivate it further.

I also think that we don't need to act on our feelings, but never voicing them is not good either. Maybe the thing is to learn to resist momentary impulses and express negative stuff in meaningful ways that can be discussed and used in problem solving.

she does believe in the shadow (psychological theory) but she never says im bad. just perhaps impulsive. when i act like that shes always asking what im feeling in that moment, whats making me act that way. trying to get me to think about it. but whatever im feeling in the moment is drowned out by panic so i cant identify why i did it beyond the obvious need to create distance.

[here today]

Originally Posted by PurpleBlur

she does believe in the shadow (psychological theory) but she never says im bad. just perhaps impulsive. when i act like that shes always asking what im feeling in that moment, whats making me act that way. trying to get me to think about it. but whatever im feeling in the moment is drowned out by panic so i cant identify why i did it beyond the obvious need to create distance.

Can you identify it in retrospect? Maybe not, if your normal self is disconnected from the panic reaction, as mine were? But I've tried, in my rational moments, to try to understand better what was going on when I allowed my non-rational self to "be". Over time, that has helped some.

The need to create distance seems like a good start. Why the need for that? I saw you're addressing that on your other thread, too. Triggered by something based in your past, or something current time with your T in the session, or maybe both?

[PurpleBlur]

Originally Posted by here today

Can you identify it in retrospect? Maybe not, if your normal self is disconnected from the panic reaction, as mine were? But I've tried, in my rational moments, to try to understand better what was going on when I allowed my non-rational self to "be". Over time, that has helped some.

The need to create distance seems like a good start. Why the need for that? I saw you're addressing that on your other thread, too. Triggered by something based in your past, or something current time with your T in the session, or maybe both?

ya- feeling connected. safe. normal. i don't believe it can last, or is meant for me, i feel like its a mistake, that it'll be taken away- so i do something to take it away from myself.


yesterday after i was playing keep away with her necklace she told me i was being a little annoying and there were better ways to use the session...

Originally Posted by PurpleBlur

session today wasnt great.


t calls my dark/shadow side the wolf (I refer to myself as a wolf in sheep's clothing) and the wolf was out most of the session... I told her I didn't want her ugly face and I turned her chair all the way around to face the wall.

then after 15 seconds i turned her around again and asked for a hug and she says oh, are you sure you want a hug from me with my ugly face?

I think shes very baffled by my behavior today.

I think I'm baffled too... I don't know why, exactly I did it. I'm just familiar with the pattern.


I'm going to destroy this relationship even though I dont want to. I just feel compelled in the moment to do these things.

I thinks it's good to get to know all parts of yourself.

Just from observation, I think people who deny those aspects of theirself act it out on other people. So-recognizing and understanding those parts may lead to less acting out in the long run.

It might seem foreign to you know, but maybe it's something you can integrate. Often people have to repress those impulses all those years rather than being free, so it can be scary when they come out.

[here today]

Originally Posted by guileless

I thinks it's good to get to know all parts of yourself.

Just from observation, I think people who deny those aspects of theirself act it out on other people. So-recognizing and understanding those parts may lead to less acting out in the long run.

It might seem foreign to you know, but maybe it's something you can integrate. Often people have to repress those impulses all those years rather than being free, so it can be scary when they come out.

I tend to agree, though I had lots of bad experiences in therapy with therapists not understanding those "parts" and me not understanding their reactions to them.

I know it's not what you want, necessarily, PuepleBlur, but if this T can't tolerate them, or interact with you in a way that you don't end up feeling put down, then perhaps you might consider finding another T? (Or no T at all and just feedback from peers is what I'm trying now.)

All sounds a bit dramatic.

[BonnieJean]

Originally Posted by junkDNA

There's another very good but very long book about a woman's experience with BPD and therapy... it's called Get Me Out of Here. My T let me borrow it and read it. One of the few accounts I could relate to in regards to being in therapy with BPD and the relationship with one's therapist as a part of recovery

I read that over the summer. It is long but moves pretty quickly.

Originally Posted by here today

I tend to agree, though I had lots of bad experiences in therapy with therapists not understanding those "parts" and me not understanding their reactions to them.

It could be not understanding, or it could be transference or the Ts own triggers. But sometimes I think those who are the loudest when it comes to scolding or not tolerating others are also those most disconnected from their own anger, shadow parts, or disavowed or split off parts, such as inadequacies, repressed impulses, or shame. Interestingly, you can even see the patterns...