ever had to tell a T they are violating your boundaries?

So I've been seeing this new T and I'm getting very uncomfortable with him. I started skipping appointments figuring he would just forget about me and then I wouldn't have to talk about what's bothering me, but he called today to find out why I haven't been coming. I made an excuse, and said I would see him next week.

I have very rigid boundaries about physical touch. I just don't feel safe being touched very much. And this guy is very, very physical. He's taken my hand and held it while I cried, he's rubbed my knees, etc. And I haven't known him for very long. I don't mind getting a hug after a session. And with my other T (I've been seeing her for 5 years), there have been times when she's held me for a minute, or sat close to me, and I was always comfortable. But this T's touch isn't comfortable to me. I am always really, really afraid of saying anything when it comes to physical boundaries. It's a pattern for me. I'm too scared to tell him I don't like it

And I don't know if it's reasonable that I'm uncomfortable, or if it's just because I'm crazy. It might also be just because he's a man. I'm not sure.

Have you ever had to tell a T that the way they touch you (or anything else) violates your boundaries, and you want them to stop? How did it go? How did you get up the nerve?

Well, how about right as you go into the office before you sit down. And tell him straight up that you don't want him touching you any more!

I'm sorry that he has crossed the boundaries, and not just yours...but ethical boundaries imo.

You know, if he can't accept what you say (hey, it's YOUR body and YOUR hour) then you don't need HIM for a therapist in the first place! Put the ball into his court and see what he does with it!

You go girl!

I've never done more than shake hands with a therapist but if one of any gender touched my knee I'd jump out of my chair. The prospect of a T doing that is very creepy.

Tell him no and if he doesn't stop, report him.

Cyran0

I was not comfortable being touched and one T and I worked on that very thing together :-) She had me shake her hand as I left each week then we graduated up to safe hugs. It was still scary for me but the "practice" did help as it often does with most actions.

I wouldn't go into "boundaries," I would just stay with how you're uncomfortable with being touched and would appreciate it if he didn't touch you at this time, that the closeness is not helping you but it isn't something you wish to work on at this time.

there is a wide wide line... a frickin meadow if you as me... as to what constitutes boundaries. Personally, i think that's cool because one size definitely does not fit all. Having said that, and making the assumption that his touch has been nonagressive and nonsexual, he is a "touchy-feely" guy, right? He won't know what your boundaries are unless you tell him.

i think he should have talked to you about it first... meaning, he should have asked you if you were ok with nonsexual touch. It's an error in judement.

he sounds like a caring person, and that he is trying to be reassuring. i am very sorry it's had the opposite effect.

i would do this:

"bob" i have a problem. i skipped appts and i am very anxious because of this.. it's veyr hard to talk about. i am very, very anxious about personal space. It bothers me when you touch me in any way. It makes me very uncomfortable."

you could write this on a letter so that you dont have to say it outloud if you dont want to.

if you are happy with him as a T otherwise then i would give him a chance to work with you about this.. it does not mean you have to get used to him touching you. You might very well open up a productive dialogue about boundaries, etc, and you both may learn a lot.

if you are not happy with him in other ways.. then i wouldn't bother with any of it. i would just tell him my life had other priorites now.

ty everyone...

i am too afraid to just walk right in and tell him out-right. like i said, it's very, very hard for me to talk about physical boundaries.

i like the suggestion not to use the word boundaries when i tell him. i don't want to say it accusatory, and treat him like he's a predator. i just want to let him know it's not ok with me, and i need a lot more space.

i'm not really sure why i'm seeing him, honestly. i started seeing him because he's also a native american medicine man and i wanted to learn more about my heritage. but it sort of turned into therapy. i already have a therapist that is actually much better at this than he is.

why am i afraid to tell this guy i don't want to be touched? why am i afraid to tell him i don't even think i want therapy with him? something in me is still half-heartedly wanting therapy with him... maybe as a back-up? i don't really understand why.

i am confused. i just know for sure that i don't feel safe when he touches me.

You know what, trust your instincts on this one. Touch does not have to be overtly sexual to be inappropriate. If you don't feel good about it, then something is setting off the alarm bell for a reason. Who knows, this therapist could very well be attracted to you and want to take this further. I am speculating, but our instincts are there for a reason.

Trust your judgement. You don't have to give any reason not to go back to him, maybe find another one, someone you feel more comfortable with.

Your boundaries are your boundaries and no matter what they are valid.

My T has never touched me. I know some people share hugs, but we don't even shake hands, and I am comfortable with the relationship just the way it is. The boundaries (his and mine) make me feel safe.

(Unless, of course, I want to break them down, but that's another story altogether.)

If you are uncomfortable in any way you should tell him straight out. If he is unresponsive or defensive I would consider ending the relationship. A therapeutic relationship, by nature, is one where the T has more power and if you have any sense that something is amiss then you should trust your instincts immediately.

Good luck and take gentle care.

** Dissenting Opinion Warning ***

Gosh...your post is sorta screaming at me. Ya know how that happens sometimes?

You are a female, who sounds sorta young, and you are seeing a relatively new T. And he's a he.

And he's touching your knee? Huh??

HUGE RED FLAG!!!

No decent male T would touch a female clients knee. It's simply NOT OK. I don't care how compassionate he is - it's foolish in this litigious land. And clearly is is not OK with you. If he is not aware of that, he is not good at his job. He ought to sense your discomfort.

And no decent T male or female should touch any client without discussing, and obtaining concent.

I would not return. I would call and leave a msg explaining. I would find new T. I might even report this one.

I'm sorry if this was rough....I'm concerned.

Campy

I've had two T's at the same time; you probably would feel better if you called as Campy said and terminated with this guy?

I would do that or I'd come up with a list of Native American heritage-related questions you wanted answers to and get the whole thing more "instructive" and less personal. Do some reading on your own to get grounded: http://historytogo.utah.gov/utah_cha...ansinutah.html then explore with him from there for awhile.

Perhaps it would make it easier for you to set a limit to number of sessions? Tell him you only want to afford 5-10 more or something.

No T should ever be touching a patient's leg. I don't care what gender combination it is.

If I am working with a patient and he/she begins to get into a state in which I feel touch may be beneficial, I always ask, "Is it okay if I put my hand on your arm?"

I disagree that you should tell him "no" and then continue therapy with him. Too dangerous. He has already ruined the therapeutic relationship. I say terminate. I am very sorry this happened to you, but you will have an opportunity to find another T-- one of many, many Ts out there who ARE trusting and you WON'T violate you.

I don't know you, obviously, but the first time someone touches me and I don't like it, I'd say, "Please don't touch me." It's your body. It's not clear that he's a licensed therapist--Nat. Am. medicine man? No one is forcing you to see him if you don't want to. If you don't like seeing him or feel uncomfortable, just stop. You don't owe anyone an explanation. It sounds like you have a therapist elsewhere. You can learn about cultural info. elsewhere if this man makes you feel uncomfortable.

Eleanor Roosevelt said (assuming she's talking to adults), "No one can take advantage of you without your permission."

my 2 cents. . .

I have to add my 2 cents here. with the above posters. The little feelings we have inside that give us bad vibes are usually good indicators and are worth listening to. Everything you said made me feel uncomfortable. The fact that you have a T that you are working with and trust makes this even easier. There are lots of places to get cultural history and info. If you feel you MUST (and you don't ) give him a reason, say you have decided that your time each week doesn't allow you to continue therapy right now. You really don't owe him anything. This was/is about you. Trust yourself and your good instincts!

tulips

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Campanula said:

And no decent T male or female should touch any client without discussing, and obtaining concent.

I would not return. I would call and leave a msg explaining. I would find new T. I might even report this one.

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I AGREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That is not EVEN a question of shades of grey. I cant see any situation in which t hat would be appropriate for a therapist. Just my opinion though. Have you told your old therapist, Sweet Crusader?

***may trigger... please be safe***



No, EV, I haven't told her yet. I would like to get her opinion, too.

Why am I so afraid to terminate with him? This situation is such a huge trigger

I feel really messed up. I hate feeling like I can't be in control of who touches me and how. I hate feeling so powerless. My mom used to make fun of my physical boundaries, saying they are too rigid. She used to say "you have rules" as if that's a bad thing (in a really mocking tone). I feel like I'm not allowed to be bothered by this. And I feel like I'm making a big deal out of nothing.

But it just felt so wrong when he was rubbing my legs

Crusader, your reaction illustrates how wrong this situation is. Cancel your appointments with him and never go back.

Cyran0

no... T... or Pdoc.. has ever touched me.. anywhere... if they did.. I would run screaming for the hills.. - just honest reaction here..

my T and I do not even shake hands.. and don't want to..

Yipes... but I couldn't handle that..

Trust your instincts. There's nothing wrong with having rules around who or when they can touch your body. My relationship with my T and Pdoc is strictly hands off. My pdoc half jokingly put her hand on my shoulder one time and then apologized immediately. If you think you can get something out of continuing therapy with this guy - then write out precisely that you are uncomfortable being touched and give it to him. If it feels unsafe or you think you can get the support / information in another way, then feel free to terminate. Not all therapists are a good fit for a patient.

Good luck.

--splitimage

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SweetCrusader said:
***may trigger... please be safe***



No, EV, I haven't told her yet. I would like to get her opinion, too.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post"> not telling others...was that part of abuse when younger?</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>

Why am I so afraid to terminate with him? This situation is such a huge trigger

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post"> you're confused because when one has their boundaries violated it can become hard to remember we all have the right to say no! and to totally control who touches our bodies and how.</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>

I feel really messed up. I hate feeling like I can't be in control of who touches me and how. I hate feeling so powerless. My mom used to make fun of my physical boundaries, saying they are too rigid. She used to say "you have rules" as if that's a bad thing (in a really mocking tone). I feel like I'm not allowed to be bothered by this. And I feel like I'm making a big deal out of nothing.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post"> you're totally allowed to be bothered by this! if anything, in our not so humble opinion, you're not making a BIG enough deal out of this.</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>

But it just felt so wrong when he was rubbing my legs

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post"> *shudders* oh SC please stop seeing this person at once. please relate what has taken place to your other T as soon as you're able. and please please please know that none of this was your fault and you're totally right to trust your gut that nobody has the right to touch your body w/o your consent.

wishing you strength as you continue your healing journey.

my ex T violated my boundies cuz we had a sexual relationship outside of therapy but I initated it...so I feel bad that he lost his job but I miss him so much I moved away so I dont see him he did give e his cell number but I ripped it up the other night cuz I was angry,

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SweetCrusader said:
But it just felt so wrong when he was rubbing my legs

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Uh, yeah. Trust your instinct.

You are totally allowed to have rules and boundaries. It can get so confusing, though, to tell the difference between standing up for your boundaries appropriately and having boundaries that are too rigid. I bet it makes it more confusing to deal with a physical intrusion when you've been working on not resisting letting T in emotionally.

I'm sorry that he is violating your boundaries. It's scary to me because I know that I'm vulnerable too. If a T or someone I looked up to touched me and they seemed to think there was nothing wrong with it (which obviously, if they are doing it they seem to think there's nothing wrong with it, from my perspective as looking up to them), it would be really hard to tell them no, there is something wrong. That was what happened to me as a child when I was molested, and was a pattern later on in dating too. I couldn't set boundaries because I'm always wrong and whoever else is always right. I'm just lucky that nobody pushed that stuff farther than they did, because I was incredibly vulnerable.

I sure hope that this T doesn't push it any farther, and that you learn that you can set boundaries before he tries. I don't know that he would. Maybe it's innocent. But maybe it's not. Are you afraid of losing him if you tell him you don't like him touching you? (I would be - that fear is way too familiar).

But when you cancel and don't see him at all, then you are setting a boundary that keeps you safe but is too rigid. Maybe terminating with him is the right thing to do. That is for you to decide. But I think you need to either terminate, or talk about the issue, not keep pushing away while telling him you will see him again. You might talk to your other T about it before you decide. I would be very interested in what she says.

Stay safe.

I told my other T. She said that boundaries are influenced by a lot of things, including culture, your level of emotional intimacy with the other person, your level of comfort with intimacy in general, etc. She also said it's absolutely fine for me to decide what my boundaries are and that I have a right to express them and have them respected. She told me I should have the conversation with this other T about it, if for nothing else then for me to practice learning to stop avoiding things. She doesn't think I should just never go back.

I am going to go, and take a note in with me that says my concern on it in case I can't talk when I get there. (Every time I've tried to say something, I couldn't. It's almost like I don't even have a voice). I'm going to tell him my concerns and see what his reaction is. I'm leaning toward terminating with him anyway, but then at least I will have spoken up for my self, and not avoided speaking up like I always have in the past.

Wish me luck pls

I'm glad you are going to get practice telling someone your boundaries. And an authority figure at that. I'm so proud of ya!!!

ty EV

And thanks everyone that replied. I really, really appreciate your support. This is really hard for me