[MoxieDoxie]

Here are a good answers to this question from Quora. I wish my T would read it.

In my view this is not psychotherapy at all, as psychotherapy deals with deep feelings. In psychotherapy, it is understood that transferential feelings ALWAYS exist, and it is more about how and when we choose to identify and work with them, you cannot prevent a client from experiencing the full range of transferential feelings. That is the whole purpose of therapy, to work through unresolved feelings and unfinished issues, the ones that won’t go away and mess up your life, and the way this is done is through what emerges in the therapeutic relationship.

It seems bonkers to me that a therapist would terminate a client just when the real work begins to emerge. I would suggest this is probably because these therapists feel out of their depth with deep feelings, for example if the client is angry with them, as they have not been trained in how to work with these very real situations that will always arise when you have two people in close relationship. So if you want to work with your feelings and you want to feel free to feel whatever you happen to feel in therapy, choose an experienced, mature psychotherapist who will be rock steady while you go into your more vulnerable material. Do not go to a therapist who does not work within the transference. This means being informed about who you choose to work with, what modality they practice, and what they regard as therapeutic.

This does NOT mean trying to seduce your therapist, or acting out in other ways that are disruptive to the therapy. You have to keep to the therapeutic boundaries just the same as the therapist does. You are free to feel and explore what comes up for you, just not to act it out with this person. This is the essential distinction. Transferential feelings arise when you experience the person of the therapist “as if” they are someone else in your life. They stand in for this person so that you can take the opportunity to heal old wounds that keep repeating. It is essential that this is handled appropriately by the therapist, and that you also stay in your lane as client.

[cloudywithachance]

Good Morning, I’m new here, but I wanted to comment because this is something I have been worried about too. Over the last couple of months I have really started experiencing transference with my therapist. At first I didn’t recognize what was going on with me, because it’s been awhile since I’ve had this happen with anyone. When I was younger, it was a regular thing for me to develop transference with any women who I perceived as strong, confident, intelligent, etc. like teachers, professors, etc. they become like the mother I wish I had. Well none of my transference in the past has been this bad, but I am trying not to bring it up at all because I’m afraid my therapist will pull back or start treating me differently out of fear I’m going to become dependent or too attached, or worse, she might terminate. I know that most therapists wouldn’t do that, but it still scares me. I am wondering how long this whole transference thing is going to last!

[here today]

There's a lot about the following article that I find messed up, frightening, and just plain wrong, at least as it could be applied to me. But there are some aspects of this that I still think are interesting, at least from my experience. And an interesting point of view, if nothing else.

What therapists, with their own problems, can do about the situation is also not made at all clear in this article. But, if you feel like tolerating the c....py parts, it may be interesting or useful to read? And just ignore the junk?

Transference love and harm

Here is at least a part that sounded kind of like your (last) T.

The fourth group of therapists refuses to engage with the transference. They may do little or nothing to encourage the idealisation; when it emerges they ignore it, or treat it in a pejorative or disapproving manner. These therapists may feel incompetent, irritated or ashamed that this situation has arisen, and this produces shame and confusion in the client. The client then conceals the idealising feelings and they flourish in silence, until the adverse aspect becomes apparent because the feelings can no longer be hidden. . .

So, it sucks and it's not only you and your T.

I didn't focus on it but I think I remember you mentioning your father passed away recently? And how is your husband doing? You have had so much (overwhelming) stuff handed to you recently. I so wish for you that you had some real-life support somewhere, somehow. Well, I wish it for myself so maybe it's just projection. But anyway -- I surely hope things get better for you soon. And hope the online T helps, not hurts.

[MoxieDoxie]

Originally Posted by cloudywithachance

Good Morning, I’m new here, but I wanted to comment because this is something I have been worried about too. Over the last couple of months I have really started experiencing transference with my therapist. At first I didn’t recognize what was going on with me, because it’s been awhile since I’ve had this happen with anyone. When I was younger, it was a regular thing for me to develop transference with any women who I perceived as strong, confident, intelligent, etc. like teachers, professors, etc. they become like the mother I wish I had. Well none of my transference in the past has been this bad, but I am trying not to bring it up at all because I’m afraid my therapist will pull back or start treating me differently out of fear I’m going to become dependent or too attached, or worse, she might terminate. I know that most therapists wouldn’t do that, but it still scares me. I am wondering how long this whole transference thing is going to last!

If you read my previous post that is exactly what happened to me. I revealed to him my attachment and transference. Nothing happened right at that moment but he started changing his MO on everything. Modality, emails, how he sat. It was slow and insidious. Children of trauma/neglect really pick up on energy and non verbal cues that most will miss. Im not crazy. I felt him pull back emotionally and the connection I had with him was severed. He would do some disclosing on things about him and would comment if I had a new pair of shoes. That all stopped. I even walked in one day with my hair professionally streaked in purple......not a word from him. Pure poker face.

This has made me not want to tell him anything. The relationship that I thought was healing me is gone. He might as well just be a robot sitting there giving generic answers showing no emotion to me expect that stern look.

So....never tell your T how you feel.

[MoxieDoxie]

Originally Posted by here today

So, it sucks and it's not only you and your T.

I didn't focus on it but I think I remember you mentioning your father passed away recently? And how is your husband doing? You have had so much (overwhelming) stuff handed to you recently. I so wish for you that you had some real-life support somewhere, somehow. Well, I wish it for myself so maybe it's just projection. But anyway -- I surely hope things get better for you soon. And hope the online T helps, not hurts.

Yes all that did happen along with some guy blowing a red light and kareeming into me totaling my car but that was in March. Husband is not out of the woods with the cancer. Goes back in for a biopsy in 5 weeks again.

I did email a T I saw briefly before this one. I get an appointment every now and again from him but he is kind of useless. To chill, does not get into the trenches with you and definitely trained in any trauma therapy. In my panic and despair I emailed him and asked if he had any openings. 2 days later he responded (he is slow) with times he had available. Honestly I want to talk about what is happening with this T but I just do not know what to say to him. I sound childish and ungrateful.

[MoxieDoxie]

[I]However, for a small but significant number of people, the experience is very different: the idealisation intensifies rather than fades, and the client becomes increasingly consumed with and dependent on thoughts about the therapist. This can be immensely disruptive to the client and to their family, and can lead to adverse consequences, as the client’s autonomy and capacity to think rationally are typically compromised./I]

Yeah thats me.

Originally Posted by MoxieDoxie

[I]However, for a small but significant number of people, the experience is very different: the idealisation intensifies rather than fades, and the client becomes increasingly consumed with and dependent on thoughts about the therapist. This can be immensely disruptive to the client and to their family, and can lead to adverse consequences, as the client’s autonomy and capacity to think rationally are typically compromised./I]

Yeah thats me.

This happened to me and it was a descent into misery and insanity. I tried to work through it for most of 8 years and had to go ‘no contact’ with my therapist in order to have any shot at a normal life.

Leaving therapy felt like I was dying. Staying felt like I was dying. It was a hellish bond with no way out.

I’m so sorry Moxie. I’m hoping you can figure out a way for some happiness and relief. My heart breaks for you.

[MoxieDoxie]

Originally Posted by PurpleMirrors3

This happened to me and it was a descent into misery and insanity. I tried to work through it for most of 8 years and had to go ‘no contact’ with my therapist in order to have any shot at a normal life.

Leaving therapy felt like I was dying. Staying felt like I was dying. It was a hellish bond with no way out.

I’m so sorry Moxie. I’m hoping you can figure out a way for some happiness and relief. My heart breaks for you.

This is just not fair. There is no way to heal my broken soul. Broken from my infant developing brain not getting needs met to now trying to get help for my brokenness to feeling like death.

[here today]

Maybe 10-15 years ago I read the title, and part of a booked, called "Soul Murder". And thought, "yes, that's me. My soul was murdered."

Then, thought maybe not exactly, just the fact that I was thinking/recognizing that meant that my soul probably wasn't dead, just paralyzed.

I have sometimes thought that the intense pain I have experienced in therapy and it's aftermath may be like when your foot goes to sleep? And then it feels all prickly as, and before, it fully "wakes up". Only, of course, this is so MUCH MUCH worse than that.

I believe that I am trying my best to "wake up" and be a person, in a world and among other people, and it's so dang hard when the soul got paralyzed, or paralyzed itself to protect against the horrible horrible pain that we felt as kids, like we are feeling now. And it hurts so much and I want to go back and numb out again, and yet know that's a no win road at this point in my "life", whatever that may be. Not much. And it's not like I developed other skills, or a real psychological skin, at the time, and so now???? How to do that now?

That's why I think a supportive social environment may be essential for this kind of stuff, not just a "therapeutic relationship", if there are any for this kind of thing. And if you haven't built a supportive social environment yourself -- because, well, how can you when your soul is dead/paralyzed -- then we're kind of up the creek.

Support groups have helped me some. And I'm on this forum interacting and venting and maybe being, like, a person? And arguing for more and better support groups, and understanding of the misery, trauma, and adverse life effects some of us have experienced with therapy. Because I think and still believe, sometimes anyway, that I (and you and "we") CAN get better and maybe even OK and socially (almost) functional. And that is a goal that I think is really, really important -- for me personally, but also because there are (possibly a lot of) other folks whose lives aren't as full and whose talents aren't contributing near as much to society as they might, if we were "weller". And that just sucks, of course. My goals may not materialize. But as goals go, I'm OK with having them.

[MoxieDoxie]

Can talking to another therapist help me with this transference? This one is not talking directly to me about it at all. Damn it is the elephant in the room.

Originally Posted by MoxieDoxie

Can talking to another therapist help me with this transference? This one is not talking directly to me about it at all. Damn it is the elephant in the room.

I think therapists can be helpful assuming you have a goal. I’ve consulted with a few over the years about the main one I had the problem with. I went with the topics of:

“I need to know if my therapist is behaving ethically”

“I need to know if this is a normal therapy reaction from a client. I haven’t been able to get a straight answer from my therapist”

“I need to decide if I want to switch therapists.”

“I need your help to leave a toxic therapy relationship.”

I think if you’re looking to vent or don’t have direction, many therapists wouldn’t want to get involved for fear of disrupting another therapist’s work. However, if they see themselves as helping you towards a larger end goal, they are more willing to assist.

[koru_kiwi]

Originally Posted by PurpleMirrors3

“I need your help to leave a toxic therapy relationship.”

this is pretty much exactly what i said to both my neurofeedback therapist and also to my dear hubby when i fully excepted the difficult truth that i needed to remove myself from the unhealthy and detrimental relationship with ex-T if i wanted to save my sanity and preserve my life.

there definilty are other Ts out there who clearly have a better understanding of how unhealthy, toxic, and damaging the dynamics in therapy can become, but unfortunately, the trick is finding one.

Originally Posted by koru_kiwi

there definilty are other Ts out there who clearly have a better understanding of how unhealthy, toxic, and damaging the dynamics in therapy can become, but unfortunately, the trick is finding one.

Sadly I found the opposite to be true. I live in a city saturated with therapists and it seems to be the unspoken understanding that there is an abundance of incompetence everywhere. The therapists I consulted with had no problem at all believing that I had been harmed by one of their colleagues. It was a bit humorous to hear each new therapist profess how their own modality would be better, safer, more productive bleh bleh bleh.

[koru_kiwi]

Originally Posted by PurpleMirrors3

Sadly I found the opposite to be true. I live in a city saturated with therapists and it seems to be the unspoken understanding that there is an abundance of incompetence everywhere. The therapists I consulted with had no problem at all believing that I had been harmed by one of their colleagues. It was a bit humorous to hear each new therapist profess how their own modality would be better, safer, more productive bleh bleh bleh.

i'm sorry that was your experince, and at the same time, i'm not surprised to hear that. fortunately, my NFB therapist was familiar with developmental truama, when my ex-T was not. because of that, NFB T had an understanding about the transference dynamics that were playing out in my relationship with my T and how my Ts counter transference reactions were not the correct way to be reacting to or addressing my issues. luckily, my NFB T had a way to help me overcome the unhealthy transference that was playing out with my T and because of that, i was able to start 'de-attaching' from my T in a healthy and empowering way.

[koru_kiwi]

Originally Posted by here today

There's a lot about the following article that I find messed up, frightening, and just plain wrong, at least as it could be applied to me. But there are some aspects of this that I still think are interesting, at least from my experience. And an interesting point of view, if nothing else.

What therapists, with their own problems, can do about the situation is also not made at all clear in this article. But, if you feel like tolerating the c....py parts, it may be interesting or useful to read? And just ignore the junk?

Transference love and harm

thanks for sharing this article HT. it was scary how much of it i could relate too. Ex-T probably was an overlap of two of the categories, the opportunist (mainly for emotional rewards) and the third catagory, Ts who offer love.

my ex-T definitely ticked all of the boxes for the therapists actions that contribute to AIT:

Encouraging contact from the client between sessions.

Discussing details of the therapist’s privatel life, and in particular unsatisfactory aspects.

Making it clear that the client is being treated in a different way to other clients.

Self-enhancing disclosures.

Disclosures that imply a unique ‘soulmate’ type relationship between client and therapist.

Offering real love and care and becoming over involved in the practicalities of the client’s life.

Discourse that hints, often in a very subtle way, at a future ‘real’ relationship with the therapist.

Refusing to discuss the transference in an appropriate manner.

*sigh*

[Lonelyinmyheart]

Originally Posted by MoxieDoxie

So....never tell your T how you feel.

I'm so sorry that you had a T like this...you have every right to be devastated and angry at how you've been treated. I just wanted to say that not every T reacts like this and with some Ts it's absolutely safe to say how you feel. My current T welcomed my feelings in a boundaried and safe way, saying it's absolutely okay to feel them and it's really important to work with them because they are providing important information for the work we're doing together. I didn't hold back from saying what I wanted from her, and that was all fine - she said she was glad I had told her and trusted her, and that nothing would change.

I wish everyone could have a T like this. I don't know what's going on with all these unprofessional ts people describe here, but it's just horrifying.

Please please keep the faith that therapy can be good and safe. I'm not sure how therapists are regulated in the US but there must be some lovely ones!

[MoxieDoxie]

Originally Posted by PurpleMirrors3

I think therapists can be helpful assuming you have a goal. I’ve consulted with a few over the years about the main one I had the problem with. I went with the topics of:

“I need to know if my therapist is behaving ethically”

“I need to know if this is a normal therapy reaction from a client. I haven’t been able to get a straight answer from my therapist”

“I need to decide if I want to switch therapists.”

“I need your help to leave a toxic therapy relationship.”

I think if you’re looking to vent or don’t have direction, many therapists wouldn’t want to get involved for fear of disrupting another therapist’s work. However, if they see themselves as helping you towards a larger end goal, they are more willing to assist.

My direction would be to help me break my transference and help me feel better because my T is not doing that. He is just being a stern jerk to make the safe caring environment he spent almost 2 years creating into a toxic, punishing awkward place. Of course he would say I was delusional and that is not what he is doing.

Leaving him is not an option at this time. I would collapse and die.

[hopealwayz]

I very recently read an excellent explanation in one of the therapy books that I am reading. It talks about how transference opens the doorway of revealing things that need to be worked on.

I will look through my books and try to locate that information.

So many therapists overlook something that would give them so much to work with if they could move beyond their lack of understanding and open their eyes to this potential healing process.

Originally Posted by MoxieDoxie

My direction would be to help me break my transference and help me feel better because my T is not doing that. He is just being a stern jerk to make the safe caring environment he spent almost 2 years creating into a toxic, punishing awkward place. Of course he would say I was delusional and that is not what he is doing.

Leaving him is not an option at this time. I would collapse and die.

Would you leave your therapist if you knew you wouldn’t collapse and die?

You describe him as being toxic, punishing and not attuned to your pain. I’m guessing if you could break the transference with a different therapist and feel better, you wouldn’t need this therapist anymore? Sorry if this is pushing a little too much into uncomfortable territory.

One goal that might be worth bringing to another therapist is “choice”. You should be able to choose to leave this therapist (if you want to) without thinking you are going to die. Not having a choice is not okay. Choosing to stay is fine too, but at the moment you are hostage and that is a scary, disempowering place to be.

[MoxieDoxie]

Originally Posted by PurpleMirrors3

Would you leave your therapist if you knew you wouldn’t collapse and die?

You describe him as being toxic, punishing and not attuned to your pain. I’m guessing if you could break the transference with a different therapist and feel better, you wouldn’t need this therapist anymore? Sorry if this is pushing a little too much into uncomfortable territory.

One goal that might be worth bringing to another therapist is “choice”. You should be able to choose to leave this therapist (if you want to) without thinking you are going to die. Not having a choice is not okay. Choosing to stay is fine too, but at the moment you are hostage and that is a scary, disempowering place to be.

When I last sent a message to my ex-T, when I lived in a different state, he said in a voice mail that I am playing out Repetition Compulsion. Great so I can google the **** out of that but yet again understanding does not make all this emotional **** storm stop.

[cloudywithachance]

Originally Posted by MoxieDoxie

If you read my previous post that is exactly what happened to me. I revealed to him my attachment and transference. Nothing happened right at that moment but he started changing his MO on everything. Modality, emails, how he sat. It was slow and insidious. Children of trauma/neglect really pick up on energy and non verbal cues that most will miss. Im not crazy. I felt him pull back emotionally and the connection I had with him was severed. He would do some disclosing on things about him and would comment if I had a new pair of shoes. That all stopped. I even walked in one day with my hair professionally streaked in purple......not a word from him. Pure poker face.

This has made me not want to tell him anything. The relationship that I thought was healing me is gone. He might as well just be a robot sitting there giving generic answers showing no emotion to me expect that stern look.

So....never tell your T how you feel.

Wow, I’m so sorry that happened to you. talk about re traumatizing someone. How could a therapist think that a client would benefit in any way from making them regret opening up and being more vulnerable? I thought do no harm is the most important thing to live by as a therapist. This is what scares me about therapy, I don’t like feeling like someone else has any power over me, hence one of the reasons I’m in therapy, when I let someone in, let someone really see me, then they have some power over me, and that is so hard. Vulnerability is my nemesis at this point. I hope that you have found a new therapist who is empathic, compassionate, experienced and way more skilled and equipped to work with people who have suffered trauma. No one deserves for a therapist to emotionally abandon them. It’s funny because when you look on Quora, there are so many therapists who sound like they embrace attachment and transference and they encourage all clients to open up about their feelings about their therapists, and that it will strengthen the alliance, but clearly that’s not always the case. I wish some of those therapists lived by me! I have actually looked some of them up, but they are all in other states lol!

[BudFox]

Originally Posted by MoxieDoxie

So if you want to work with your feelings and you want to feel free to feel whatever you happen to feel in therapy, choose an experienced, mature psychotherapist who will be rock steady while you go into your more vulnerable material. Do not go to a therapist who does not work within the transference. This means being informed about who you choose to work with, what modality they practice, and what they regard as therapeutic.[/I]

How is a client supposed to know up front if a therapist is mature, rock steady, sane, etc? You find out those things AFTER the relationship has been going for a while, maybe a long while, and even then you never really know who you're dealing with.

Also "working with the transference" is a meaningless concept. Most people talk about this stuff in such vague and simplistic terms, as if all you need is a therapist who says they work with this and won't abandon you.

The truth is it's often a no-win situation.

If you reveal yourself and then get dropped by the therapist, it's a potential disaster.

If the therapist keeps you around and you become attached and dependent, then by definition you are in harm's way, and subject to possible deep wounding, abuses of power, regressive or obsessive dynamics, etc

If you do not reveal your feelings and keep going with the therapy, the relationship is built on a lie of omission.

[MoxieDoxie]

Have you guys ever read through your old post and wished you could see the warning signs?

I have occasionally come across an older post and thought how immature I sound. And also how exposed and how "obvious" my issues seem which is painful because I consider myself defended and obscured. It's an interesting question though and seems worthy of its own thread.

[*Beth*]

Originally Posted by cloudywithachance

Good Morning, I’m new here, but I wanted to comment because this is something I have been worried about too. Over the last couple of months I have really started experiencing transference with my therapist. At first I didn’t recognize what was going on with me, because it’s been awhile since I’ve had this happen with anyone. When I was younger, it was a regular thing for me to develop transference with any women who I perceived as strong, confident, intelligent, etc. like teachers, professors, etc. they become like the mother I wish I had. Well none of my transference in the past has been this bad, but I am trying not to bring it up at all because I’m afraid my therapist will pull back or start treating me differently out of fear I’m going to become dependent or too attached, or worse, she might terminate. I know that most therapists wouldn’t do that, but it still scares me. I am wondering how long this whole transference thing is going to last!

Hi cloudy, Welcome to PC

Bring it up ASAP! Waiting will only create chaos. You can read around on this board and see how many therapy clients have been seriously screwed up by unresolved transference. Transference will not stop on its own, it absolutely must be worked through.