[kirk]

Version:1.0 StartHTML:0000000167 EndHTML:0000004989 StartFragment:0000000454 EndFragment:0000004973 I am in a very, very bad crisis here. I am so desperate that I can't see no way out or any reason to go on at all.
Two weeks ago I terminated a 18 year long psychotherapy. The first 10 years were intensive, two times a week, the last 8 years were follow-up, two times a year.
We did solve many problems and conflicts which minimized or eliminated some very bad symptoms. But my hardest conflict through all these years was that I couldn't stop though I wanted to. I tried many times, but turned back in despair and anxiety every time. I never managed to work seriously with this conflict though my therapist tried very hard to get me to that point where I was able to. He had somehow become a too big part of my conflict. I knew that he was not part of it, but I couldn't separate him from it no matter how hard I tried. So it got stuck, and for years I didn't touch the issue during the sessions. My therapist stopped the intensive therapy because, as he said, he or the therapy was a hindrance for me to solve that problem. That of course triggered a bad crisis, and we agreed a follow-up twice a year. During the past 5-8 years I have felt as if I was dead inside. I didn't discuss that or any other serious problem with my therapist. There was no therapy any more. The follow-up contact had become a sheet anchor to prevent the enevitable final loss. I was not fully aware of that for many years because I had turned ”dead” inside. Now I see it and feel it to the bone.
When I returned from a six weeks holiday about two weeks ago my therapist called me to tell me that he stopped working now and that he would give me one final goodby-session. I had three days. It didn't trigger any feelings, so I thought maybe I had somehow solved the problem about stopping. I came at the appointed time. So did he, but he asked me to wait further 10 minutes because he had to talk to someone. We were both polite and and kind during whole session. He could not of course start talking about unsolved problems, especially not the ”cannot-stop-problem”, because I was out of reach in that matter. I had drowned it for years. Five minutes before normal time he said it was time to stop. So I had half an hour goodby-session. When I got home, an ominous restlessness and emptyness emerged. Tha following day hell broke lose. I had awakened. Hello life. Hello reality. The first terror was not that it was over, but the fact that the final goodby was me sitting there calmly and apparently happy suppressing the terrible truth. And that he only gave us half an hour which he probably did because there was not really much to say. No looking at the therapy to discuss what we had solved and what we had not solved in the therapy. No discussion about my future goals. Only this silent, polite superficial chat.
I wrote him a letter to ask for one more session, since I now lived the consequence and felt really bad about this hasty goodby-session. One week later I got the answer: No. There was no possibility of one more session because he had stopped at work. The really tragi-comic is that a few days before I got his letter I had finally succeeded in separating him from my major conflict. After a 5 days long threatening struggle it just came to me, like a sudden insight, and I felt a great relief though the burden of my conflict was still there. But it was all mine now. He was out of it, and I felt an intense gratitude towards him and saw for the first time for years the whole therapy as a good thing. Now I could say goodby honestly and alive. And then I could let go and be left with the grief only. His rejection has now shattered my new treasure. I am back where I was before my struggle, distorted with terror and deep distrust in myself. The picture of the last session has glued to my minds eye. I woke up too late for us to solve my lifelong destructing problem. But what is killing me is the fact that I woke up too late to get the chance to say goodby in mutual understanding and honesty. It would have been better if he had not given me a goodby-session at all.
Now I do not need to hear this or that about what my therapist might have done wrong. I am struggling to find back to the good picture of him. This is crucial. Because if I don't I have destroyed the therapy, and then I am lost.

[WikidPissah]

Hi kirk...welcome.

Sounds like you had a lengthy and complex relationship with a therapist you really cared about. And it sounds as though he really cared about you as well. Cutting off the relationship is difficult for everyone, but an 18yr relationship must be quite awful.

Maybe you can begin to list all the positive things you have achieved in therapy. Add to the list daily when you think of things. Keep it close by, like on your phone. It's a grieving process, don't try to rush thru it.

[kirk]

Thank you very much for your answer.
I am confused. If this is what is happening to me, grieving, then I never grieved before in my 59 years long life. For days I have been crying like a tsunami almost all the time, and it seems as if it will never stop. I thought I was crying because of the failed goodby-session where no feelings occured and was a rushed let's-get-this-finished-and-go-home thing. That this was the last I had with him. And that we both accepted that. I am in despair for that too. I am afraid that this prevents me from start grieving. But maybe you are right that I am also grieving because I burst into tears when I read in your answer, that I had cared about him and he had cared about me.
I can't get hold of it. It is a new and extremely violent experience for me. I can't do anything. I can't go out and I can't concentrate on anything. I can't eat. I try, but I can't. I have lost 4 kilos in five days. So I only weigh 52 kilos now. Also I don't know who to talk to since it is about my therapist. I don't want to involve others in that relationship or the therapy at all. Even after it is over I feel it is important to keep the therapy between him and me. It took me two days to decide to write to this forum. I just had to do something. Cause I am so afraid to fall apart being alone with this. I am afraid what this will do to me.

[mcl6136]

Originally Posted by kirk

Version:1.0 StartHTML:0000000167 EndHTML:0000004989 StartFragment:0000000454 EndFragment:0000004973 I am in a very, very bad crisis here. I am so desperate that I can't see no way out or any reason to go on at all.
Two weeks ago I terminated a 18 year long psychotherapy. The first 10 years were intensive, two times a week, the last 8 years were follow-up, two times a year.
We did solve many problems and conflicts which minimized or eliminated some very bad symptoms. But my hardest conflict through all these years was that I couldn't stop though I wanted to. I tried many times, but turned back in despair and anxiety every time. I never managed to work seriously with this conflict though my therapist tried very hard to get me to that point where I was able to. He had somehow become a too big part of my conflict. I knew that he was not part of it, but I couldn't separate him from it no matter how hard I tried. So it got stuck, and for years I didn't touch the issue during the sessions. My therapist stopped the intensive therapy because, as he said, he or the therapy was a hindrance for me to solve that problem. That of course triggered a bad crisis, and we agreed a follow-up twice a year. During the past 5-8 years I have felt as if I was dead inside. I didn't discuss that or any other serious problem with my therapist. There was no therapy any more. The follow-up contact had become a sheet anchor to prevent the enevitable final loss. I was not fully aware of that for many years because I had turned ”dead” inside. Now I see it and feel it to the bone.
When I returned from a six weeks holiday about two weeks ago my therapist called me to tell me that he stopped working now and that he would give me one final goodby-session. I had three days. It didn't trigger any feelings, so I thought maybe I had somehow solved the problem about stopping. I came at the appointed time. So did he, but he asked me to wait further 10 minutes because he had to talk to someone. We were both polite and and kind during whole session. He could not of course start talking about unsolved problems, especially not the ”cannot-stop-problem”, because I was out of reach in that matter. I had drowned it for years. Five minutes before normal time he said it was time to stop. So I had half an hour goodby-session. When I got home, an ominous restlessness and emptyness emerged. Tha following day hell broke lose. I had awakened. Hello life. Hello reality. The first terror was not that it was over, but the fact that the final goodby was me sitting there calmly and apparently happy suppressing the terrible truth. And that he only gave us half an hour which he probably did because there was not really much to say. No looking at the therapy to discuss what we had solved and what we had not solved in the therapy. No discussion about my future goals. Only this silent, polite superficial chat.
I wrote him a letter to ask for one more session, since I now lived the consequence and felt really bad about this hasty goodby-session. One week later I got the answer: No. There was no possibility of one more session because he had stopped at work. The really tragi-comic is that a few days before I got his letter I had finally succeeded in separating him from my major conflict. After a 5 days long threatening struggle it just came to me, like a sudden insight, and I felt a great relief though the burden of my conflict was still there. But it was all mine now. He was out of it, and I felt an intense gratitude towards him and saw for the first time for years the whole therapy as a good thing. Now I could say goodby honestly and alive. And then I could let go and be left with the grief only. His rejection has now shattered my new treasure. I am back where I was before my struggle, distorted with terror and deep distrust in myself. The picture of the last session has glued to my minds eye. I woke up too late for us to solve my lifelong destructing problem. But what is killing me is the fact that I woke up too late to get the chance to say goodby in mutual understanding and honesty. It would have been better if he had not given me a goodby-session at all.
Now I do not need to hear this or that about what my therapist might have done wrong. I am struggling to find back to the good picture of him. This is crucial. Because if I don't I have destroyed the therapy, and then I am lost.

I am wondering if you can take my reply as a mild suggestion. So...here goes. You say that you don't need to hear "this or that about what your therapist has done wrong." I am not going to offer this or that. But honestly, the notion that IF you don't have the good picture (the perfect picture?) of him....then the threrapy is destroyed is a BIG BIG red flag.

Is there a way that you could work with someone else....for a limited number of sesssions, in order to get some of your pain out on the table? The idealization of ANYONE in your life...leads to trouble, in my humble opinion.

I urge you to find someone who can help you unravel this. I am in this same process (have been for a while) and if you wanna pm me, go ahead.

Blessings to you....

MCL

[unaluna]

[kirk]

I don't mean that I will try to keep an ideal picture of him. That is as destructive as keeping a bad picture of him. I just don't get nowhere if I hold him responsible for the unsuccessful ending. That would prevent me from truly grieving, and then I would be really in trouble. My major conflict in the therapy was not solved, the fact that I could not stop and consequently could not get to the real problem that pesters me in my life.
I am considering seeing some other therapist, but I don't know if that is a good idea. I don't know any other therapist. I realize that I have to do something, because this situation is too precarious. It seems not healthy.
Are you in a terminating process?

[kirk]

You may use my e-mail if you wish. I tried to send it to you, but when I try to send it to your pm or e-mail it fails.

It is really not uncommon for people to need help in the grieving process, and it seems perfectly natural to be grieving after the end of an 18 year therapy relationship. You may have only met with this therapist twice a year for the past 8 years, but I'm sure there was still that part of you that felt quite close to that T despite your actually distance from each other session-wise. Yours was an unusual therapeudic relationship; generally they don't go on for several decades. It is okay to need some help with this. It may be that you need some help, very possibly short-term, certainly shorter term than 18 years, to work through this loss.

[mcl6136]

Originally Posted by kirk

I don't mean that I will try to keep an ideal picture of him. That is as destructive as keeping a bad picture of him. I just don't get nowhere if I hold him responsible for the unsuccessful ending. That would prevent me from truly grieving, and then I would be really in trouble. My major conflict in the therapy was not solved, the fact that I could not stop and consequently could not get to the real problem that pesters me in my life.
I am considering seeing some other therapist, but I don't know if that is a good idea. I don't know any other therapist. I realize that I have to do something, because this situation is too precarious. It seems not healthy.
Are you in a terminating process?

I am still, in a sense, in a post-termination process after a destructive therapy experience, so it's very different from your own situation. However, I do urge you to see someone else. I agree it seems not healthy. The fact that you could neither stop nor deal with the big problem is...well, problematic. I think it IS a good idea to see another therapist ...and set limits at the very first appointment for a certain number of sessions in order to work out your (only partially successful) termination. The fact is, I think you need some referrals from an insurance provider, a colleague, a friend, ....to work your networks to find someone great. And then start going through this piece by piece. Things will open up....

Please continue to post here. There is a lot of wisdom on this board, and I made a big transition, in part due to the help of this group.

You can pm me or I will contact you personally.

You will get through this out into another phase that will leave you enlarged by this experience. The very fact that you are asking these questions is HUGE. Hang in there....

[kirk]

I guess you are right. I am shocked about my reaction though because I for so many years have been dead inside, not being there. That is part of the major conflict that we did not solve, and it is extremely frightening to come to life now and to realize that I have failed to come out of my deadness until it was too late, after 18 years therapy. On the other hand I am afraid to lose myself again, so I should consult somebody out there. It is going to be very difficult for me though. I haven't yet accepted the fact that we could not do it and that it all ended this way. I have never given that much of my soul to anyone, anyone, as I have given to him. And the idea of consulting somebody totally unknown about this scares me so. I don't know if he or she will be able to handle it. And I feel it is a bit dangerous because I am so terribly vulnerable right now.

[mcl6136]

I ws also really vulnerable, and in a sense I was not ready to admit to myself that I had made a sort of deal with a devil...you see, my t was not emotionally trustworthy and was very "inciting," in other words, he triggered me deliberately and waited for my response, which we DID work on, but the whole therapy was very re-traumatizing for me. without over-dwelling, my therapy was a descent for me, so coming out of it has been very healing -- yours sounds different. HOWEVER, I do know that for some time (this was very short compared to yours), all of my emotional energy went into therapy and I withdrew much of my caring and "heart-centered" energy from my "real life," and put it into "getting" and "understanding" someone who wasn't really available in any sense of the word.

It took a long time to dig out.

I didn't believe that someone could understand what I'd gone through, but this was more withdrawal and isolation on my part....lots of people, good therapists and good friends will be there for you if you stick your neck out...put yourself out there.

Give it a try...

[kirk]

It is very interesting what you are saying about all of your emotional energy going into therapy and withdrawing much of your emotional energy from others in your life. I can recognize that very clearly from my therapy, and that has been going on for many years. I never really thought of it as being wrong. But now that you put words on it I can see there may be a problem. I always thought that it was important to put your emotional energy in therapy to make it work. And I don't see how the therapist can prevent that. My therapist was very available, and very professional. He sincerely did his best, and he was good in what he was doing. But something went wrong somewhere. He did sometimes or maybe even often say to me: "Your life is not here in this room. Your life is out there". So he actually tried to make me change this. But for some reason I couldn't.
You say that it took a long time to dig out. How long? Did you manage to do that on your own, I mean without seeing another therapist?

[mcl6136]

Originally Posted by kirk

It is very interesting what you are saying about all of your emotional energy going into therapy and withdrawing much of your emotional energy from others in your life. I can recognize that very clearly from my therapy, and that has been going on for many years. I never really thought of it as being wrong. But now that you put words on it I can see there may be a problem. I always thought that it was important to put your emotional energy in therapy to make it work. And I don't see how the therapist can prevent that. My therapist was very available, and very professional. He sincerely did his best, and he was good in what he was doing. But something went wrong somewhere. He did sometimes or maybe even often say to me: "Your life is not here in this room. Your life is out there". So he actually tried to make me change this. But for some reason I couldn't.
You say that it took a long time to dig out. How long? Did you manage to do that on your own, I mean without seeing another therapist?

At first, I did this on my own and with help from those on the board (who are putting up with this cross-talk so if you wanna take this to p.m. that's fine..I did just pm you). Then I saw another T who works in a very different way and I am now dealing with practical things in my life (like cleaning out my clutter, for example, and issues of financial stability).

So...a lot of my current therapy is taking the form of "life coaching" stuff, rather than analytical therapy. I am, it turns out, allergic to analytical therapy. i just AM! So, my termination disaster was much differerent than yours but I did find, to my eternal and persistent dismay, that I had used therapy to DODGE life, not to confront it. The pain upon learning this was huge, huge huge. Much like the pain that I experienced when I learned that a long-term romantic relationship was not going anywhere, but was one that I had spent untold dollars and YEARS on. I was literally engaged for seven years. It needs to be made into some kind of black comedy. (I'm sure it has already).

I had to confront my own pathological persistance, and learn about the roots of it...where it came from and how I could collude with a therapist to NOT DEAL with this issue, and how a painful therapy relationship played perfectly into my own ordeals.

I went through worlds of pain, but I came out the other side. I am doing well with my new approach, but I am concentrating mainly on matters of the mundane, which is where I should have been living in a larger way for a long time. That's what I should have learned in my old life with the 12 steps, but well, backsliding is part of the whole journey, I guess.

I learned a very bitter lesson, spent a lot of bank, and yes, I did it to some extent on my own, to some extent with friends, and in a more minor way, with a therapist...

Hang in there. You can do this, and you will reach a place of greater understanding, day by day.

[Thornsandroses]

I am so sorry that you are hurting so much.

[skycastle]

Originally Posted by farmergirl

It is really not uncommon for people to need help in the grieving process, and it seems perfectly natural to be grieving after the end of an 18 year therapy relationship. You may have only met with this therapist twice a year for the past 8 years, but I'm sure there was still that part of you that felt quite close to that T despite your actually distance from each other session-wise. Yours was an unusual therapeudic relationship; generally they don't go on for several decades. It is okay to need some help with this. It may be that you need some help, very possibly short-term, certainly shorter term than 18 years, to work through this loss.

My situation is obviously different.. but thank you for this. It is really re affirming to read something like this as I am struggling right now with a termination that I feel really needs to happen but which is also causing me a lot of doubt and pain!

It does feel better to think that it is okay to ask for support.

OP (Original Poster), I think that farmergirl's response is on to something. It's really hard to talk about therapy with many of ones peers and process grief related to it since therapy is a weird private thing which is often misunderstood. I think its totally fine to seek someone's counsel about it, and also I think you are totally within the realm of normal to be grieving a relationship like this. I just hope you can get help with the intensity of it and with coping skills to deal with it all. I support you!

[KazzaX]

52kg!! That is a very low weight, especially for a male. You have got to start eating! I know you said you can't eat but I was thinking - what about Sustagen or Ensure? They are like a can of powder and you mix it with milk. It gives you all the vitamins etc that you need, and it tastes really nice. There are different flavours but if you aren't really able to stomach the flavour thing you can just get vanilla and it is quite nice too. The body doesn't lie, my friend.

[bumpy_road]

_ I just put the question "52kg=?lbs" into my browser and found that many, many others have asked the same question in many places. 115lbs is very low, I hope you're eating as healthy as possible. I'm in Canada, but we mostly only use the metric system with temperature.
_ I had a Psychiatrist for many years, I thought he was one of the best, but we never made much headway, just changed my meds whenever I started to feel worse again. It was because I was with him so long, that I didn't realize how good others can be.
_ I now have a new one who opened my eyes, she saw right through me to where we needed to really start. Just saying that, we don't really know what's around the corner all the time.
_ I hope everything works out for the best for you.
Take care.....bumpy.

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by kirk

I just don't get nowhere if I hold him responsible for the unsuccessful ending. That would prevent me from truly grieving, and then I would be really in trouble.

Sometimes we have feelings that "don't make sense" and "get in the way". But they are real feelings none the less.

[kirk]

I believe that grieving after loss of your therapist continues even after the last session. But I realize now that it can be fatal if you don't get the opportunity to start grieving and realizing that it is over till after the therapist is gone for ever. If you don't get the opportunity to say goodbye to your therapist in mutual understanding and honesty. If it was because he had died I might be able to handle it.
After 18 years this doesn't feel just like a blow. It feels like a disaster. I see nothing but ruin.

[WePow]

Do you think maybe you held the death of the relationship inside your heart all those years when you were dead inside at the sessions.? ISometimes if the pain is too deep, we put a numbing emotion ontop of it. When you knew it was the last session, after that there was not a chance to have to see him and have him see the anguish in your eyes, your subconscious may have known
it was now safe to process through that death event from all those years ago.

After you processed through, you could feel again. But you feel right at the worst timing of all... after the relationship has ended.

You deserve to be heard about the relationship and the ending. Now I do think talking to another therapist is a solid idea, I also understand the need to be heard by YOUR therapist. I highly suggest you write out everything you need him to hear and mail it to him. He may or may not write back, but he will read it. And you will have said what you needed to say.

[unaluna]

uh... you just returned from a six weeks' holiday? were you dead inside during that? I don't get it. twice a week isn't "intensive", and twice a year for 8 years? what is it that "you couldn't stop"? (altho i'm afraid to ask). There is a lot of drama here but I don't see the man behind the curtain. I can't get a feel for the real issue here.

[kirk]

This is so difficult. This is getting worse and worse. I can't be in myself. I can't be there. But my death is not there to save me now, and it shouldn't. This death is my protector and my worst enemy. At the last session I didn't feel anything. I only focused on one thing, to say kindly and politely goodbye and be careful to avoid leaving bad feelings behind me in the room as the last goodbye.
Two hours ago I had an alarming experience which tortures me constantly. I thought I had already seen hell. I hadn't. This is hell. I realized that I am the only destroyer here. I destroyed the relationship, me only. I have always had that fear of destroying him, the therapy and myself together, so I tried to do what I could to avoid that disaster. And he was of course fully aware of this too. He knew me. He was a very strong, wise and professional therapist, and I am not idealizing now. I have not destroyed him, but I have destroyed his concern for me. And I have destroyed the therapy and myself. I did that. I didn't just fail the therapy. I destroyed it. How can one live with that?
Here it comes: In the beginning of March this year my therapist called me to cancel our half-yearly appointment, because his wife had got cancer. When he said that he would call me when he felt ready to cope with his work again, I just said: Ok, talk to you then. And we hung up.
Who, even the best therapist, would be able to feel any concern for such a ghastly ice queen after a 18 years long relationship? Who would touch a living dead after that?
It did strike me afterwards that I didn't show compashion to his sad information. But it didn't break through to me, if you know what I mean. This is my armour, my death at its worst.
Time passed by, and after about one month I started wondering. I assumed that he was still in a crisis. Or maybe his wife had got worse. Another month later I was to leave for my 6 weeks holiday on the 2. of May. So two days before my departure I decided to write him a letter. So I did. I wrote that I would be away for 6 weeks. I also wrote that I didn't know how his wife was doing, but that I understood that it was serious and that I felt sorry for him for that. I sent the letter the day before my departure. He called me the day after my homecoming to tell me that he had decided to stop at work and to appoint a final session with me.
So my conclusion is (I know it is guessing, but …) that he might have been ready before I left for holidays, but had given me up because I, on the phone, had given him the deathblow to his last hope and belief in my ability to get out of my poor ghastly armour. And also I had turned him cold towards me.
How can one live with this insight?

I do think of writing him. But how can I write this to him? Another thing is that my therapy took place at a hospital. So it was for free all the way. Only few got that opportunity in my country. I was lucky. Now that kind of therapy is no longer possible here. Only maybe at a private therapist. All therapies are now private business, and 50 minutes costs at least 140 US dollars.
I do not have my therapists address or phone number. I am sure though that if I send a letter to the hospital, he will get it. They will send it to him, I believe.
If I decide to write him a letter, I will have to think, think very hard what to write.

I don't know ...

[kirk]

You ask if I was dead inside during my holiday? That is a good question. You see, when I am dead, I am not aware of it since I am dead. Yes, sometimes I am. Or I sense it somewhere far behind my armour at certain moments. I was alive on the surface. But not truly alive, not fully.

What I couldn't stop? I couldn't stop the therapy. I still can't, inside. And the experience of this last session prevents me even more now. I was terrified of losing my therapist. I had become so dependant on him that I would burn up in hell and die if I lost him.
You see, after the first 7 years of the therapy we got very close to opening up to this major conflict, very close, and I was confident, afraid, but confident and curious, but then something happened, that I think should not have happened which had a very dangerous consequence. This changed the course into a wrong direction. Gradually I got more and more stuck caught in the dilemma: I can't stop, it is too dangerous - I long for my freedom, I am in need to let go.

You talk of destroying his concern for you and the therapy,etc. But it just sounds to me like he decided to basically retire from his work, perhaps due to issues concerning his wife. I know you are grieving for the loss of this therapy relationship, but you need to gain some persective that YOU didn't destroy it. Heck, you didn't even end it. It just ended due to whatever the circumstances were for your therapist. That will take perhaps help to get through, but making yourself into some kind of cause of the destruction of this therapy relationship is not based on the information you have provided about the circumstances and it's clearly not helping you gain perspective. Find a therapist who can help you work through this grief. The grief seems normal under the circumstances, but the self-blame you are inflicting on your self seems unfounded and damaging to you. Please find some therapeudic help to get you through this pain; some fresh eyes on your situation seems like a good idea at this point.

[kirk]

Thank you very much for your refreshing roar. It makes sense somehow. I am just so terribly messed up. I don't think I ever grieved before. Cause it seems so violent and strange to me. I will find someone to help me through it. I have totally stopped all activity in my daily life, and I still can't eat. So it is high time I do something.