[rebelrose]

I don't know how to categorize this relationship I have with my former T, but it's not the friendship I had hoped and I regret he can never be my therapist again.


About a year ago I decided to end therapy after 7 years. My main reasons being that: 1) I was tired of talking about my problems, 2) I was tired of paying and wanted to save money, and 3) I wanted to start living my life instead of waiting until I was "fixed". At the time, I expressed my deep grief at the separation and my wish that T and I would still see each other. To my joy, T felt the same way and shortly after our last session we met for lunch.


T is 20+ years older than me and married with 3 adult children. For the most part I have viewed T as a father figure and mentor, but throughout the therapy there were intense periods of erotic transference which we resolved. Still, I find his intellect sexy and think he is an attractive man. So when we first met outside of the therapy room, even though I know neither of us would EVER turn this into a sexual relationship, I felt guilty and kept thinking about his family. It's been a year of lunches and I still feel that same guilt especially because I sense he finds me attractive. Despite this, it has never gone beyond a hug when saying goodbye.



I am frustrated because it's been a year and he won't share about himself, like two people would in a real friendship. He talks about issues at work, conferences he attends, and politics but not much else. I anticipated moving our relationship into a friendship would take time for him to feel comfortable sharing, but it's been a year and no real progress. He knows so many intimate things about me that I've never shared with anyone which makes me feel too vulnerable at times. It's like he doesn't want to even the playing field. I'm starting to understand why he's a therapist. He gets to experience intense intimacy without any risk. I feel more like his colleague than a friend. It's like I'm his sounding board.



And right now I'm experiencing a particularly tough time in my life and I wish he was still my therapist. Instead, I pretend everything is okay in my life as if I was talking to an acquaintance because I don't know what the boundaries are between us. I don't know what I can discuss with him and what are "therapy things". I miss him as my T.


I have a history of attaching myself to unavailable men and I have recently realized that I have done it again with him.



I thought I was gaining a true friend, but I feel lonelier than ever.

[East17]

I'm sorry that you are regretting the change in relationship from therapist to friend.

Unfortunately this is why most professional bodies don't recommend - some even forbid - any kind of personal relationship between ex-clients and therapists to develop once therapy has ended, there is too much of a power imbalance; especially so soon, they normally recommend a break of at least 2 years, if allowed at all.

I would be quite concerned about your ex-T's motives here because he most definitely should know better. The first rule of therapy is to do no harm to the client, and his behaviour is doing exactly the opposite of that.

No one can tell you what to do here, as it's your life and your decision, but for your own sanity, peace of mind and protection, it would be better if you brought a halt to this friendship straight away. You have already said you wish he was still your T, but now there is no going back.

I hope you can make the right decision for you.

Sent from my SM-A526B using Tapatalk

[rebelrose]

Thank you @East17.

I got caught up in feeling special. I couldn't believe that someone like him would want to be friends with me. I was well aware of the rules and believed I would be an exception. He's been a therapist for 35 years and will retire in the next couple of years so I don't think he's too concerned about breaking the rules. Or maybe he is and that is why he's holding back. I don't know.

I do know that you are right. It's painful to think about cutting ties with him because he's the only therapist who wasn't afraid of me. And I feel like I owe him so much. But I know I won't be able to fully live my life if I remain attached to him.

[comrademoomoo]

It sounds like you have discovered that he is boring and self-interested. I can imagine that your transference bubble has burst and that is not comfortable - especially without the chance to speak about that with him in a therapeutic space. Presumably he knows about your history and relational pattern with men - all the more reason he should have been careful and respectful with you by not entering into this limbo. And he is not the only therapist who won't be afraid of you, he is not unique.

[AnaWhitney]

Sounds dead awkward to me… Are you looking to go back to therapy? Could you see someone else? Maybe your T wasn’t the right fit?

[rebelrose]

Thank you @comrademoomoo. Although I don’t agree with everything you’ve said, I acknowledge that there is some truth to it. I’m canceling our lunch for next Friday. I doubt he’ll make any effort in rescheduling since for the most part I’m the one who reaches out to him. I anticipate the “friendship” will die off pretty quickly.

[rebelrose]

Originally Posted by AnaWhitney

Sounds dead awkward to me… Are you looking to go back to therapy? Could you see someone else? Maybe your T wasn’t the right fit?

No, I don’t plan to start over with another T. He was a fantastic therapist. He’s #7. He was the first one to really get me. Throughout the years he never gave up hope. He kept it alive for me. He was a wonderful therapist, just not a very good friend.

[Elio]

Originally Posted by rebelrose

Thank you @East17.

I got caught up in feeling special. I couldn't believe that someone like him would want to be friends with me. I was well aware of the rules and believed I would be an exception. He's been a therapist for 35 years and will retire in the next couple of years so I don't think he's too concerned about breaking the rules. Or maybe he is and that is why he's holding back. I don't know.

I do know that you are right. It's painful to think about cutting ties with him because he's the only therapist who wasn't afraid of me. And I feel like I owe him so much. But I know I won't be able to fully live my life if I remain attached to him.

I wonder if that attachment is something more than a friendship level of attachment. Doesn't mean romantic, just something more. Which given how vulnerable we can be and the information we share with our T's; I can see it being something more. I'm dealing with the unexpected termination of my therapy relationship after 8yrs. My T must close her practice due to circumstances that are mostly out of her control when looking at the larger picture of her life. I so desire to continue to see her for coffee or activities. I don't think I could ever see her as a friend. I think a part of me will always have that other connection to her. If we did do something afterwards, I don't expect her to open up very much more than what she already has. I really see it morphing into more of a peer support role than a friendship.

Perhaps he simply saw this as an extension of your therapy, a next step in your journey. Not knowing what brought you to therapy in the first place. Is there a reason you cannot go back to seeing him as a T (I can think of many, not sure what your reason is). It seems like to some degree he kept a level of boundary there that might make it possible. In fact the fact you did most of the reaching out kind of speaks to this time period being an extension of your therapy in a way. Could you use one of these lunches to discuss any of this with him? What more intimate did you want him to share? Did you discuss what a friendship with him would look like? Perhaps he is waiting for that?

And like you said he is 20 yrs you senior, there just might be that generation gap or he might actually be that private of a person. It sounds like to me he is sharing parts of his life that he didn't share before. And that might be all he shares with his friends. Each of us do have different levels of information we share with the different people in our life.

I think that you feel some guilt about spending time with him or that you had erotic transference (which might not be transference at all) is an indicator that there is more to your wishes/fantasies than maybe a friendship level.

Why not talk to him about any of this?

And please forgive me if I am way off base here.

[LonesomeTonight]

I'm sorry you're dealing with this. Echoing a bit of what Elio said, maybe consider sharing this with him, whether during a lunch meeting or in an email/text (however you generally communicate), etc., just to see what he says?

" And right now I'm experiencing a particularly tough time in my life and I wish he was still my therapist. Instead, I pretend everything is okay in my life as if I was talking to an acquaintance because I don't know what the boundaries are between us. I don't know what I can discuss with him and what are "therapy things". I miss him as my T."

[divine1966]

I am concerned that he took no time between end of therapy and these lunch outings. He must know it’s not particularly ethical or appropriate. He must know that this isn’t true friendship and isn’t therapy. So what does he think it is? Especially if he knows that you get attached to unavailable men.

Does he not see that you are doing it with him, that he is proverbial unavailable man here. He should think about what’s he doing. It’s harmful.

I have hard time wrapping my mind around the fact that this or any t would think that this is ok. I think it’s wise to put a stop to it for your own peace of mind. Of course you could also tell him what you think and see his response first etc

I don’t put therapists on pedestal as they are regular folks like us, but it’s all together shocking what some of these therapists doing. It’s mind boggling

[rebelrose]

Originally Posted by Elio

I wonder if that attachment is something more than a friendship level of attachment. Doesn't mean romantic, just something more. Which given how vulnerable we can be and the information we share with our T's; I can see it being something more. I'm dealing with the unexpected termination of my therapy relationship after 8yrs. My T must close her practice due to circumstances that are mostly out of her control when looking at the larger picture of her life. I so desire to continue to see her for coffee or activities. I don't think I could ever see her as a friend. I think a part of me will always have that other connection to her. If we did do something afterwards, I don't expect her to open up very much more than what she already has. I really see it morphing into more of a peer support role than a friendship.

Your intuition is right @Elio. My attachment is much deeper, yet it is not romantic. I don't know how to describe it. Your expectations for the type and level of continued contact after termination are healthier than mine and make sense.

Originally Posted by Elio

Perhaps he simply saw this as an extension of your therapy, a next step in your journey. Not knowing what brought you to therapy in the first place. Is there a reason you cannot go back to seeing him as a T (I can think of many, not sure what your reason is). It seems like to some degree he kept a level of boundary there that might make it possible. In fact the fact you did most of the reaching out kind of speaks to this time period being an extension of your therapy in a way. Could you use one of these lunches to discuss any of this with him? What more intimate did you want him to share? Did you discuss what a friendship with him would look like? Perhaps he is waiting for that?

Looking back at his behavior after reading this, I think it's spot on as far as our continued contact being extension of my therapy and a way for him to provide continued support. I'm starting to see that my expectation of something different is causing me my own pain. I just wanted to know more about his life, childhood, his kids and grandkids and all the stuff that goes with that. I thought that we could just call each other, without having to schedule a time to do so, and just shoot the ****. I tried calling just to see how he was doing but it was a little awkward and I could tell he wasn't that into it. Never discussed what a friendship would look like. I just made assumptions.

Originally Posted by Elio

I think that you feel some guilt about spending time with him or that you had erotic transference (which might not be transference at all) is an indicator that there is more to your wishes/fantasies than maybe a friendship level.

You're good. I don't think it's transference either. I do have fantasies of something more. I acknowledge that a part of me wishes that I came first in his life. A desire for him to want me in his life. And yet it's not romantic. And I know the impossibility of it all. Just my childhood stuff, wanting to be supremely important in someone's life, which would mean they were protective of me.

Originally Posted by Elio

Why not talk to him about any of this?

It feels too late and I feel too hurt. I sent him an email telling him I had to cancel our lunch, I didn't give an explanation as to why, and he didn't even reply to acknowledge it. It feels like this whole thing has run its course and he's letting go. It hurts so much that he's letting go.

[rebelrose]

Originally Posted by LonesomeTonight

I'm sorry you're dealing with this. Echoing a bit of what Elio said, maybe consider sharing this with him, whether during a lunch meeting or in an email/text (however you generally communicate), etc., just to see what he says?

Thank you, LT. I would feel so foolish telling him all of this but if he ever reaches out and we meet again, I would bring it up. I don't want to be the only one to initiate contact anymore and because of that I highly doubt I will see him again.

[rebelrose]

Originally Posted by divine1966

He must know that this isn’t true friendship and isn’t therapy.

Now I don't believe he thinks this is a friendship. My deep loneliness and need for a true friend, and what that would look like, made me expect things of him he wasn't aware of.

Originally Posted by divine1966

Does he not see that you are doing it with him, that he is proverbial unavailable man here. He should think about what’s he doing.

This is the only thing that has given me pause. I have always been aware when people are f--ing with my head, one of my superpowers from my childhood experiences, so I admit to wondering whether he was deliberately manipulating me by being somewhat aloof in order for me to keep coming back. I know he likes my company, enjoys our conversations and that he is attached to me too. But after all these years of therapy, I know that my go-to position is to be distrustful of everyone's motives. So, I take into consideration all the years he's been unwaveringly true and I put aside my fears and suspicions because I know he has always wanted the best for me.

Originally Posted by divine1966

I don’t put therapists on pedestal as they are regular folks like us, but it’s all together shocking what some of these therapists doing. It’s mind boggling

I don't believe I have him on a pedestal, but I do admire him because he has an extraordinary and creative intellect. I don't see myself as T's victim at all. I am an adult who made a decision being fully aware of all the implications. I know that the majority of the mental health community sees any relationship outside of the therapy with the client as off limits and taboo, but it's a stance I disagree with. Each dyad is unique and nuanced and we can't eliminate that and make a blanket proclamation of the rightness and wrongness of certain relationships. Are there people with diminished capacity that should be protected? Of course. But for me, I am a free and autonomous human being and as such I exert my right of self-determination.


All the feedback I have gotten is very much appreciated as it has helped me see that it has been my unvoiced expectations that have caused me so much pain.

[Bill3]

I know that the majority of the mental health community sees any relationship outside of the therapy with the client as off limits and taboo, but it's a stance I disagree with.

It is, though, a stance that he, as a therapist, is required to observe.

[divine1966]

The issue isn’t that there is some type of taboo. The issue is that therapists have guidelines on romancing or befriending clients or former clients. Even if you feel that these guidelines are dumb and you should be able to see him in whatever capacity, it doesn’t mean HE shouldn’t abide by the guidelines. You aren’t governed by any rules. But he is. He needed to know better.

Hopeful whatever you decide will be the best outcome for you. Good luck

[Therapy reviewed]

His not keeping you safe. Like others have said, guidelines are there for a reason. That he needed to add you to his friends list says more about him. Therapist should of have ask their outside needs fulfilled without needing to add a client ex or current into the mix.

[Elio]

Originally Posted by rebelrose

You're good. I don't think it's transference either. I do have fantasies of something more. I acknowledge that a part of me wishes that I came first in his life. A desire for him to want me in his life. And yet it's not romantic. And I know the impossibility of it all. Just my childhood stuff, wanting to be supremely important in someone's life, which would mean they were protective of me.

While I may sound all more realistic with what I want with my T; I think the attachment is closer to what your write here... wanting to be supremely important in someone's life.

I wish I knew why that was and why I don't get that from the people in my life.

And as much as I want that relationship with her; it will always be me reaching out to her. Or I believe based on what she has said, it will be that way.

Originally Posted by rebelrose

It feels too late and I feel too hurt. I sent him an email telling him I had to cancel our lunch, I didn't give an explanation as to why, and he didn't even reply to acknowledge it. It feels like this whole thing has run its course and he's letting go. It hurts so much that he's letting go.

Ouch, that must have hurt to have him not even reply to acknowledge. I'd be wondering if he even got the message and be tempted to contact again at the same time feeling/thinking like you state here about the whole thing running its course. I do wonder what would happen if you scheduled a session with him - what his response would be.