[SweetCrusader]

Please share with me how your T has communicated with you about therapeutic boundaries, and what it was like for you....

I am writing an article about case managers... what our roles are and aren't in the lives of our clients. And that's similar to the T relationship in a lot of ways. It's going in a newsletter to all of the clients in the program where I work. I want it to be gentle, and just an overall thing about the boundaries.

Ideas? Suggestions?

[ECHOES]

We didn't have any discussion about specific boundaries.

It has come up only in my worries about doing something wrong; she reassures me if a boundary gets crossed we'll talk about it.

A previous T stated emphatically in one of the first few sessions, and in response to nothing.. that we would never be friends no matter how much time since therapy had ended, we would never socialize, go to lunch, etc. Turned out she had a client who very much wanted that and repeatedly asked for it. What it had to do with me I have no idea; I suspect it was about her, but I didn't stick around there too long to find out.

[lauren_helene]

I can only think echoes that she is projecting her fears on you. I mean the previous T...

As for boundaries we've had the discussions many times over. Actually, I don't want to think about when I end therapy. I can't change his mind so might as well get better and go!

[Slippers]

That's hard...maybe somewhere in the article try to point out the diff in terms of case worker vs friend? and how much better/important friends are?

also how both sides have boundaries, not just staff - so it seems more fair. for instance the case worker shouldn't ask about childhood abuse issues. that's too intrusive and it ain't their job.

everyone has to protect themselves with boundaries - not just MH staff. people do it in marriages, families, and at all sorts of jobs. maybe give some examples?

S

[happysappy]

After having a T who didn't stick to his ethical boundries, with my new T, I set up the boundaries at the beginning. I said NO disclosure, I even told him if he is attracted to me, I will fire him. lol I have loosened up now that I know I can trust him not to hurt me like the last one. But I learned my lesson with my first T, even though it felt great to be special, it only hurt more in the end, I appreciate the boundaries now.

[sunrise]

In general, my T treats me really well so I try to reciprocate. In doing that, I end up being respectful of his boundaries.

SweetCrusader, I think it would also be interesting to look at ways clients communicate their boundaries to their therapists. That's really hard for me (with everyone, not just with my T), but I've improved since beginning therapy. Also, I think that as therapy progresses and you get to know each other really well, sometimes the boundaries relax a little (both client and T boundaries). I know that for me there are things that might seem acceptable now that weren't at the beginning.

Anyway, if you do a follow-up article, I think the "client boundaries" angle would be interesting and is less written about than the therapist boundaries.

I had a similar experience to sweetcrusader, and I set up some similar boundaries at the beginning of therapy. He mentioned a hypothetical situation about being tired in therapy because his water heater broke and he was up all night, and I told him, in no uncertain terms, that I did not want to know ANYTHING AT ALL about his personal life. I just wanted him to exist in that room. Too much disclosure was the beginning of a slippery slope with a "counselor" in my past who ended up crossing the boundaries with me, big time.

Later, I found out by accident what kind of car he drove. It felt unsettling, but we talked about it in therapy, and I realized it was okay. Now, I feel a little more comfortable with the possibility of his disclosure, but he's still very respectful of that boundary that I set.

He assured me at the beginning of therapy that he has "VERY good boundaries". I trust him more and more as time goes on, but the fear created by the other situation still rears it ugly head sometimes.

As for his own boundaries that he sets, I haven't really bumped up against them yet. He's fine with calls and e-mails and touch. He has made it clear that our relationship exists sort of outside the real world - we won't have lunch, get coffee, etc....and that's perfect for me, because I want him to be my T for as long as I need him. I would hate it if something messed that up.

[Rapunzel]

It's uncomfortable when they set the boundaries either too tight or too loose. One therapist came to my house, to make suggestions on my non-existant decorating style. Just the baby was home. I didn't think about it being odd, but it felt weird at the time, and I just felt uneasy. After I had quit I heard he lost his license for having an affair with a client. Eek. Three out of eight of my therapists have had licenses revoked for that reason at some time. That's scary. All of those three had some signs of not having good boundaries. One was just obviously so busy all the time, and showed it. I never felt like he cared about me at all, or even listened to me. I was sure he was preoccupied with everything else. Another had been friends with my husband before I started seeing him for therapy, and continued to socialize with us (which I liked, until later he decided it was inappropriate and cut it off abruptly - that hurt).

Boundaries can be too rigid too. A VR counselor, who worked with my husband, used boundaries as an excuse not to do things that he didn't want to do. He tried to deny me services because he worked with my husband. He also stopped supporting my business efforts. And he overstepped boundaries sometimes by lecturing me about therapy issues when that was not his place. He tried to make me feel bad about cutting (in general, not a specific instance - I didn't ever bring it up with him).

Boundaries are tricky, and so important. I'm working with a client who needs to work on boundaries. It's sary because I know that I have lots of boundary issues myself. I have to set clear boundaries with her. She hinted that she wanted my cell phone number. I gave her a card with the office phone numbers, which doesn' thave my personal contact info. She asked for a hug. She had worked hard in the session, and I was on the way out, and I gave her a hug. We were withing sight of other people. I give hugs to my developmentally disabled clients sometimes, but tell them no until a relationship is developed. Sometimes they want too many hugs and I tell them no hugs at work. Some have argued for a hug as they are leaving at the end of the day, and I'm usually okay with that, but I make sure it's in sight of someone.

In residential treatment there was no physical contact with the clients, because there had been cases of false accusations of abuse. That was still too rigid, and was starting to loosen up a little after I had worked there for a year.

My current T does well with boundaries, but even she has made some mistakes. We started out with e-mail therapy, and switched to f2f only. I wish that we could still have email conversations too. She has responded to my emails sometimes, but eventually she says it has to stop. At first she just said no more email, but I still wrote to her sometimes. Eventually she clarified that I can email her, and she will read it, but she won't write back. I don't like it, but at least it's a clear boundary and enforceable.

It's easier to take when a firm boundary is set and then relaxed a little when appropriate, than to feel like I'm losing something when boundaries get tightened up down the road.

[ayng]

I'm amazed at how clearly some of you can define your boundaries with your T.

I'm kind of in a fog about this right now because of what I feel my T has done to me.

How do you know if it is your boundaries or theirs you are going by?

I know I sound really ignorant on this - but I am just trying to get through this before even considering getting a new T.

the only real boundary issue which has come up was back when he said he couldn't come to my show, and even then he struggled with that one. He said that it would be too much like we were friends and that wasn't supposed to happen. He does know that i wasn't expecting/asking for anything outside of the therapeutic relationship... it was just where i think he had to draw the boundary for himself so that he didn't become enmeshed. My pdoc on the other hand loves to go to stuff like that and has openly said that his long term patients are special to him, he doesn't have kids. No problem here.

maybe you could explain that a T sees many clients, while each client sees just one T... i found that statement made a lot of things more clear to me... he will always be more special to me than i am to him, but it doesnt mean that he can't care about me. i have many friends, but i care about each as themselves for example.

rip... boundaries are funny.. well, not haha funny.. and people give that line about crossing them because it's true, you generally find out where one is by crossing it. Some things, most things i would think, would be mutual rather than either/or. But discussions about chance public encounters, etc are good ones to have. And as far as going by yours or hers... well, i'd say that if its hurting then you're running into her boundaries. But im guessing bc i dont know what has happened lately with your T.

[sunrise]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
ayng said:
How do you know if it is your boundaries or theirs you are going by?

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">You make sure to respect both of your boundaries.

Take hugs, for example. My T and I hug sometimes at the end of sessions, and he usually will ask my permission first, "share a hug?" and spreads his arms. He doesn't just dive in and assume I'll reciprocate. He makes himself available and lets me come into his arms. He is respecting my boundaries. I don't usually initiate a hug, but wait for him to invite me, so I respect his boundaries and don't force myself on him. A few times we've just fallen into the hug naturally without the invitation, but we do after all have a history of both of us being OK with hugs. We did not hug early on in therapy, but got to know each other very well first. Going slowly and getting to know each other helps each person get to know the other's boundaries. Along the hugs theme, it could be a T would have a boundary against hugs, as some therapists feel there should be zero touch with the client. So that T's client needs to respect his boundaries about hugs and not pester him to break that.

ayng, I hope that helps. Good luck finding a new T.

[chaotic13]

My T didn't really communicate any boundaries directly with me. I've kind of set my own boundaries. This has been a very unsettling process for me because I like to know what the rules of the relationship are up front. Maybe having me establish the rules of engagement this was part of my therapy.

[coconut64]

My old T didn't have any boundaries and my new T is all about boundaries, sometimes I wish that they could both be more like the other one.

My old T and I were like friends. After the session we would go out to lunch man times. He let me hold his hand, gave me hugs, he even gave me a neck massage one time I was really upset. I never infered in any way that his touch made me uncomfortable so I guess I accepted it. At first it took me by surprise how much touchy feely he was, after all he was a male T and I was a female client of approx the same age. After a while we became very comfortable with each other, and like I said he was more of friend who would offer his shoulder to cry on than a therapeutic relationship. There definately was a mutual attraction although we never crossed that line. I'm not saying it was all his fault, I was a willing participant, never set boundaries for myself and I liked the relationship. We even hung out as part of a group, with dinners, events at my house and situations that had nothing to do with our therapy. Even when I stopped seeing him, we continued to have lunch for a long while.

My new T is totally different. He does psychoanalytic psychotherapy and is very clear about boundaries. We haven't discussed it openly but it is very clear that this is another ballgame and that there are rules in place. There are no hugs, the only time I have touched him was when I offered my hand as a handshake after our first session. There will never be lunches, or contact outside the room. I know it even though it hasn't been explicitly discussed.

Sometimes when I'm crying I wish he would reach out and give me his hand to hold, I'm not even asking for a hug, but I know it's not going to happen. That doesn't mean I don't want it.

Ts have to set boundaries but we also have to set boundaries for ourselves. I know now that the relationship I had with my first T was not good for me. I enjoyed it while it happened but in the long run it has caused me more pain than anything else. For example, because of it, my relationship with my new T is harder. It is taking me a long time to trust him and open up. Ts can never be our friends as much as we want them to be, and if there are, no healing truly happens. I've realized that while my first T helped me over a time. Long term healing can only happen when someone is truly invested in our wellbeing, can maintain objectivity and care enough to keep boundaries that will allow him or her to do what's best for us.

I hope this makes sense.....psych central newbie!!!

[Razzleberry]

Still somewhat new to therapy so I don't really know what the boundaries are yet.

My pnurse has her email address on her business cards. I mistakenly assumed that meant I could email her. Nope, she wants me to call, not email. Fine with me.

My T has a rigid schedule. Won't do an 11:30 for example, has to be 11:00. But other than that, I don't know of any boundaries yet.