family secrets / boundaries

if anyone has a comment on this I would welcome it......

I have a sibling, A, who is married to B, and has several children.
Have not seen them for a while but we got together over the holidays. B looked terrible and when we were apart from the crowd I asked, what’s up? B said, I have been seeing someone for depression. There is something ungodly going on in our marriage and if I told you about it, it would completely change the way you feel about A.
B said, my therapist is encouraging me to tell you about it. what do you think?
I said, I don’t know, let me think about it.

When I went to see T I related all this, and she looked very concerned and said, "this sounds like a real boundary issue".

I didn’t understand her response, but I didn’t press her any farther. I know T is not going to tell me what to do; but I really have a hard time understanding the concept of boundaries and I don’t know what she meant.

I'm confused, too. It is obviously a boundary issue--everything is really, but here it sounds extreme, but that doesn't tell you anything about what to do. Seek clarification; it likely is hard for her to say much meaningful without either of you knowing what stuff B is talking about. And that’s a catch-22.

It may have been very hard for B to come forward and speak to you. It sounds like his T is trying to get him to enlist some outside support in dealing with this. I would like to think that A's T would not suggest this unless it was appropriate. There are things you might definitely want to know about A whether A is part of this conversation or not. For example, maybe A has a substance abuse problem and B has tried all he could to get A to seek help with no success. Sometimes other family members are enlisted for a group "intervention" and you could really help here. Or perhaps A is abusing her children and you should know so you can call CPS. Sure, B should have taken that step but sometimes in marriages we have trouble confronting our spouses so B's cry for help should not be ignored. On the other hand, there are things B should not be telling you but handling in another way. For example--marital problems such as infidelity. If A is having affairs, there is no need for you to know that. B needs to handle how he feels about that and his action plan without consulting A's family members. His therapist can help.

I would have a discussion with B and tell him that there are certain things that are OK for you to tell me such as child abuse, substance abuse, etc. (you should come up with your own list). And there are certain things I don't need to know, and would harm my relationship with my sister for no good cause (boundary violation), such as marital fidelity problems, sexual problems, etc. (again, you make the list). Make sure B understands the difference between these two lists of things. Then offer to hear the problem if it doesn't fall in the second group of things. If it does, then don't hear the information from B and instead encourage him to seek support from his therapist and perhaps friends rather than A's family members. Or tell his own family members. Don't sacrifice your relationship with A simply to make B feel better. There needs to be a good reason you should know. Again, I am thinking there is a good reason or B's T would not have suggested this to him. But it is best to ask B directly, rather than depending on his T to have made the right judgment.

Good luck. At least B gave you a warning so you could make the decision.

((STWE)), i'd go back and discuss the boundary issue with your T. then you will have a better understanding of what she meant. i think it was very wise of you to not allow B to tell you about his issue. what fast thinking! many times people will ask if they can tell me something but they don't want it repeated, period. i've learned to say well i don't know if i can promise that cause if you told me something that might be harmful about yourself, i'd feel the responsiblity of sharing it with someone to protect you. do u see where i'm going with this?..or it could be something incredibly unkind and not true about someone else...no one wants to be put in the middle about something like this. it creates a 'triangle" in a relationship...my t has told me that is not a healthy approach to get involved in. meaning one person telling another person something about another person rather than keeping it between the first 2 persons. whew! i hope you can follow that thought!
also it sounds like at the present B may not be very stable..i could be wrong..but i feel you made a good decision at the time. ask your T about her comments. that'll give you better definition of the remark. keep us posted. i hope this helps, too.

Wow! I cannot believe this issue was just posted! This is an issue I will likely be discussing in my next T session. One of my MAJOR issues is privacy. I want my "stuff" to only be disclosed by "ME". In reading what you wrote I immediately thought about how I would feel if my spouse started to disclose personal issues to my sibling. If I found out about it, I would TOTALLY flip out and be angry with both my spouse and my sibling. If my H thought information needed to be disclosed to a family member then he should at least tell me..."I think your brother/sister needs to know about what is going on. If you don't tell them I am going to." At least then I have the option for how the disclosure will be handled or at least know that I might need to provide my side of the issue to insure some balance. Maybe .... this response is associated with my mental pathology... so take it for what it is worth. I understand Sunrise's comment about substance abuse or child abuse. Maybe it is OK when the issue affects the health of others. If I have a medical/psychological condition, unless I am totally incapacitated...I should be in control of what is disclosed. IMO.
If I were A, I would be pissed that my spouse of airing out dirty laundry among family members without my knowledge/permission.

Here is a situation I am facing:

In my marriage this privacy issue has created a lot of problems between my spouse and I. I have repeated told him that I prefer to keep my issues/our issues between us. Yet he continually discloses information. It is to the point that I have instructed my medical practitioners NOT to disclose any information about me to my H. I know this sounds like I am being a real jerk but...I want privacy and for whatever reason he has repeatedly violates that request.

He talks to his brother and friends, and even my friends about everything: His back pain, his GI problems, our finances, family member's bowel conditions, problems with our children..etc Most recently I heard him on the phone with one of his buddies, talking about how his brother was crying and carrying on about some issue he is facing. As he was talking to his friend he made a joke about it saying..."that boy has problems, he needs professional help, I KNOW, he can see (my therapists name)! She will fix him!" Since in the joke he used my therapist's name, and his friend laughed, it was VERY clear that my husband shares MY PERSONAL information with his friends also---and likely not in a very compassionate way. This infuriates me!

How do you handle someone like this? If you tell them...hey, I really would appreciate it if you leave me out of your locker room conversations...he does it anyway. If you tell him...My health/mental health issues are personal, PLEASE do not discuss them with others... He still does. Why do people do this? If you simply exclude him from knowing...he becomes not much of a partner. They are not doing it to help someone, to better support someone... it just... to talk/make fun/have nothing else interesting to talk about/just like to make some else look bad. Is it some type of addictive behavior? I don't get it, what do they get out of it????

Sorry...for ranting...guess I have some resentment about being on the other side of this issue :-)

sittingatwatersedge, when you reflect on the conversation...what do you think your brother or sister-in-law's motivation was to disclose to you? Did it seem like he/she was trying to reach out for support for himself/herself? Were they just warning you that something big was about to erupt within their family so you weren't caught off guard? Did it just seem like they were gossiping? Why do you think a T would be telling him/her to inform family members? I know we've covered this issue in another thread...maybe some T just give this advice....My T has never told me to talk about my marital problems with friends and family.

Some PC folks can quote multiple posts and reply to them all; I'm cyber-challenged & don't know how, but wanted to say thanks to each of you on this. You've put a lot of thought and care into your comments & have helped me to see more clearly what the possibilities are.

When T said big boundary issue, I thought she meant an issue of B attempting to violate my boundaries (by putting me in the middle); but now I think she meant B was asking my permission to violate A's boundaries - or - maybe both. Why B's therapist would encourage either, I do not know. If I simply have to tell SOMEONE a deep problem, T is the one; telling an additional person won't necessarily help me, and may harm them, or others.... I will work on this over the weekend... won't see T for 2.5 wks, but I may call her, something I rarely/never do.

In session, T asked me 1000 questions about A, and made a lot-o-notes (why notes? I wondered). When I looked into B's face I could see so much suffering, and it hurt me to say, let me think about it; but I suspect I know the issue, and if I'm right, it's theirs to resolve, not a dang thing I can do about it. I would only drive A away from me, which isn't going to help anything.

sigh. families. THANK YOU ALL for your help. You are the best!

I would surmise that your T was referencing the boundaires associated within the sibling connection/relationship and those that relate to sharing personal information that reference other individuals. Both are real and effective boundaires for maintaining unconflicted relationships.

I would ask B if it is possible that A tell you herself. If not,,it is an issue within the marriage that seems to reference A and it would be a form of intrusion for B to share it.(boundary).

IMHO.

Lenny

Wow, that would infuriate me too! I would lean toward the stop telling him personal information so he doesn't have the opportunity to use it against you, use it for laughs, etc. When he proves he's mature enough to handle it, maybe you can consider letting him back in.

I don't konw why people act like that, especially about people that they care about. I think some people are just less sensitive, less attuned to other people's feelings than others. He should work on that though, because you've pointed it out to him and to continue it is quite inconsiderate. As you say, how can he be much of a partner to you if you have to hide personal information from him. Ugh. Good luck.

Sitting, I'm glad you figured out a plan.

I totally do this too, as I tend to be very careful about protecting people who have confided in me, and not sharing their secrets (as I would want them to do for me). Thus I wind up sharing/processing most of that stuff with T, not other friends.

But... am I being too absolute there, thinking I am betraying if I need to process with somebody (a non-T)? Lots of people aren't in therapy...do they not get to process these things with anyone? There have been times when I really needed to process things, and it was isolating for me not to be able discuss it (for fear of betraying). Also, maybe it's isolating me from other friends, by me not emotionally investing by processing things with them, saving all that for my T instead? I don't know...just thought that was an interesting subtopic you raised....

oh! sorry, i was not clear. I actually meant that if B needed to talk about a critical, personal problem with someone, the T would be a good choice; but very often, family members are not always a good choice, for many reasons.

I really try to be open with T about the things we discuss, but there are tons of things that never come up in one short hour. I have one close friend (what Bradshaw would call "a non shaming friend") to whom I know I could tell anything, and could rely on her help, and vice versa. I tink we'd go to da wall for eachodder. then again, many non-T-related things I share with my DH. oh ... and then there are you patient folks, whom I talk to death...

i had to respond re your H. it seems to me to be one of two things. either he has some major issues himself and is tryiing to take the attention off himself OR, and i think this is the correct one, he is truly a non-compassionate individual. it's similar to emotional abuse even tho the person may not be there to hear the remark. i'd take a close look at how this marriage is going. i'd be furious if i had to put up with these violations of trust on an ongoing basis. you probably won't be able to change him..not that you wanted to..so you can create the change as you are doing. his actions could create serious consequences in your life. ugh, it makes me mad. i'd seriously talk about this with your t. either he respects your boundaries or...

This is what I am trying to wrestle with. I know that I tend to not talk and withhold information that is probably not in anyone's best interest. I'm working on learning how to share more of myself with others and be less paranoid. But this issue with H, is not paranoia...it real!

I'm trying to find a middle ground.

When I think about Sittingatwatersedge situation...I immediately identified with person A having no control in what is being disclosed about them. I guess if I were person B, before I started confiding in a third party, I would tell person A I'm going to do it. Or at least clearly indicate that I strongly feel disclosure is important and that I cannot be trusted to keep my mouth shut.
Also, I think if I where sittingatwatersedge who is being pulled into a the fray... I would tell person B, "Hey before you go telling me private stuff... I want you to know that if I think I should talk to my brother or sister about what you tell me... I am going to." In other words, there are no secrets between the three of us after that point. Or maybe another way to handle it is to tell B, it sounds like you have something going on, I'm willing to listen but A has to be included in the conversation too.

Hey Chaotic,

So glad you shared , when it comes to mental health issues , no I absolutely don't like to be talked about or have information spread around.

I can see your struggle with wanting full disclosure with your hubby because thats what real intimacy is all about . Good luck in finding a middle ground. Sounds to me like you have shared enough and its time to draw back on what you share and say hey . sorry but things are changing . I trusted you completely . I don't feel safe to do so any longer.

to you ,

Its good for me right now to be reading this issue , I need a little tune up myself.

Sitting at watersedge.

I belive your T may have been questioning about what your brothers therapist was suggesting he do. Now that he has "shared but not really" it does lead one to wonder about just whats so imortant that the T is pressing for disclosure. Plus he already made it clear you would not think highly of her if he did share.Well guess what . Your already starting to without knowing. The thought has been planted . If he is a victium of say physical violence ... something sunrise touched upon , he may need help from the family. or at least get to a shelter .

Even now, just your brother hinting at this , It has got you involved. worried. enmeshment .

its always informative to turn the tables , put yourself in A's shoes . If you were married and your hubby said that to his sister about you.

doesn't feel good does it.

Boy ..I DO need a tune up.....



I'm sorry . I hope all gets worked out . and I hope its not too serious for your bother .

Patricia

Here is a guess. If you don't like guesses, just ignore me!

I see someone made anxious, and cannot contain the anxiety, so has to blab to someone. Not good for you, but maybe it makes sense of the thing?