well the door is closed - he's engaged to her

Hi girls

Sanity Seeker you never babble - I love reading what's on your mind.
Yeah I should should should cut contact with Mark but even today we have been emailing each other... he sounds depressed which in turn makes me think he is either lying to make me feel like his life is crap or that he is not happy and it makes me worry...
Guess I'm a nice person by nature and I don't like to see anyone unhappy..
I have my T appointment on Thursday - thankfully! I need to ask him a few questions about how to make my next (long time in the future) relationship work out... And I will talk with him about Mark as well.

Marjan, I am more of a dog person - love the affection they have but they do require a lot of looking after.. if you do get a dog get something small that wont shed hair where is my tip
I am glad you aren't depressed and you made me smile with your comments about hiking at 2pm and not answering him back LOL.

We will all find peace and happiness one day soon - either alone or with someone special - we are special people xxxx

Belle Belle Belle.....sometimes it's better to be a bad person and not a nice person....he hurt you by leaving you and of course he's not happy in that relationship, he doesn't even know that woman well....just couple of months going out with her, he got engaged.....and he's missing you that's why he's emailing you....unless, you email first and he just replied back.....I'll tell you again, this is not good for you and don't do that to yourself.....do not be available for him and if he wants you, he has to show it to you and come after you then make him to test for all STDs before doing anything with him.....don't be soft and don't be his shoulder to cry....
I know I'm being harsh here, but I've seen lots of relationships and I read a lot about human behavior, and it's so funny how all of us react.....we want some challenge in our life....that's why we are getting into terrible relationships....we don't care about guys who are after us, we want those who are not after us....this apply to guys as well....so, that's the rule, play the game....
you may say that "oh, I don't want to play a game!".....but that's the way it is....I don't say to play with somebody's heart and brain, but just be strong and ignore Mark who hurt you....if even you like him, you will do him a favor by not giving him attention right now, because he has to understand and choose.....
guess what? just right now an old old boyfriend of mine who drove me absolutly crazy and I was so obsess about him after break up, has requested a friendship on facebook.....OMG.....I think he's married now and he's living in Australia based on his facebook, but I know he's married from a mutual friend of us.....I don't care about him anymore....but he looks still handsome to me and he loved hiking.....I think he's still love hiking, he had couple of hiking pics on his facebook....interesting.....
I had such a quiet weekends and it's not me at all....

Next weekend will be more active I am sure
When does your acting class start?

It is good Belle that you have a session with your T this week. You always feel better afterwards. I think Mark is manipulating you even if not intentionally. The 'nicest' thing you could do for him is cut him off. He will not get on with addressing his issues if he has you to play games with while his life spins around and round. I know this from experience. You can't make him happy. That is up to him. I get that it hurts to imagine him unhappy but if he were happy you would be just as miserable so you can't win for loosing until you cut him loose. I promise never to harp on you about this again. I know you are doing the best you can and that is all you can do right now. Time will guide you forward and in time you will be free from all the mixed emotions.

I would stay away from that guy Marjn. He is married. Case closed. I have some old school friends on facebook that are now married men but never would I be friends with an old boyfriend. I don't think I would like that if I were the wife. Nope, wouldn't like that on bite actually. lol. I don't think anything good can come from reconnecting with an old boyfriend if he is married, especially on social networking sites. Unless he has a high privacy setting you can likely snoop at his pictures without befreinding him.

Well... enough of my self righteous lecturing hey. geesh!! I am doing okay. Hanging in and coping with the stresses that are wacking me between the eyes today. My son is on Spring Break from school and challenging the boundaries so that keeps me keyed up some what. I still have no work and money stress is huge but doing what I can to not dwell on it too much. Did a bit of sewing and set out some ideas for children's wear since I seem to know a lot of people having kids or grandkids right now so thought it might be quick and easy money. Maybe. Keeps me busy anyways.

Hi Sanity Seeker
You are right in all ways and I am doing my best... I don't want to not be able to share when he does get in contact with me though so if it happens I will still tell you girls xx
I'm doing 100% better than I was last month.. each month everything gets a little easier.
I agree that he is a married man and if Marjan still had feelings for him then it's best not to befriend him again but if it could turn into a great blast from the past friendship then it's okay I have a few friends on FB that are ex's and are in steady relationships... I just love being able to chat about the 'good old days' with them, nothing more

Sanity you are allowed to lecture that's half the reason this tread has continued - we can speak our minds and provide support.
Having your son home would be nice and difficult at the same time... you still need your private space as does he.
Children's wear sounds great - go for it and I know that you can make a success of it xxx

I am positive as can be today, yoga tonight and then therapy on Thursday... Plus I have an old school friend flying in to visit this weekend - haven't seen him 12 years!.. he wanted to see the sights of Perth so I booked a river cruise on the Swan River.. it's a good way to see everything in one hit!
I can't believe how 'out there' I am now. I never would have expected to be this social again - it's like I am 17 and have no anxiety.. Hope it lasts through to the weekend.

Belle....I'm so glad you are doing good....and SanitySeeker....we love your advices....we need them
I love you guys how protective and smart you are....no worries about my old boyfriend with a wife....honesty, I could not even remember him from his face and his name....I had to snoop into his facebook and from the friend's connections I remembered him....plus he's living in Australia and I'm in California....that was like 13 or 14 years ago....oh gosh...time flies like crazy....I haven't added him on FB....not really into facebook stuff anymore....I used to be on it all the time, but since I broke up with Aaron and he used facebook to show me how happy he is and making girlfriends one after the other....I don't like the FB....I don't have even a wall....
These days I'm craving for having a baby like crazy.....I think it's my age...well...I still have hope....
going to the dance class tonight....good that Aaron doesn't show up anymore in the class....interesting....but it looks like he's busy somewhere else....and as time goes, I don't want him as much as before and I don't even think about him that much anymore....
Kevin case was just a rebound for me that's why I don't have any feelings for him....even thinking that I fooled around with him and kissed him makes me feel yaki....hehehe....it's all in our mind, we can override our mind and order it to like or dislike somebody or something.....
I really want a guy who has a steady job and a good heart....Is there anybody out there
sorry girls for ranting

take care
Marjan

Hi

I know what you mean about facebook - before I joined I thought it was evil - mainly because it showed Mark happy with Lisa grrrr... Now I am a little addicted, at least to catching up with old friends seeing they are over 3000kms away in a different state!

It does sounds like Kevin was a rebound for you (thats what I am worried about with me, I don't want another rebound relationship and I think that's why I am 'dating' randomly). Marjan you made me laugh with the yaki comment LOL

Steady job and good heart... ahh the perfect guy, do they really exist? haha

I am having a good day so far.. yoga last night was really good and tomorrow I have my T appointment... it's going to be a brilliant weekend and following week I can just feel it!

Hope you are both well and staying positive!

Hugs!!!

I feel compelled at this point in the the conversation to add that quality people of either gender are difficult to find. Women are certainly not alone in this issue.

you are absolutely right.....finding that special person is hard for both genders

Belle....I'm so happy that you are having good time and I can see your progress...great.....just hang on there....and who cares about those rebound guys in your life....they are there to help you to find your way....same way that you might be there for somebody else to find his way!

ya....I don't have any desire to go out with Kevin....and I kinda feel a bit guilty for not do clean break up....He's a good guy and he will stay as a friend to me, but nothing more....I didn't break up with him because I didn't feel having any relationship to break up....when the guy just calls once in a while and I haven't seen him for almost a month....then what's the point of breaking up....

Today, I got email from him saying that "can I come by to visit you tomorrow night?"....and I emailed him back that I will get home late and then I got to sleep.....I'm all puzzled, what Kevin really thinks? does he think that he can have a girl like this? not spending money and no sex....hehehehe.....and he's not supper handsome or rich? so...what else has left? I'm so bad...so so bad....but no sex, no money, no nothing....what is that?

take care
Marjan

I agree.... good partners are hard to find for either gendar. Actually not all good people make for good partners is probably more accurate in my opinion. I think for the most part I am a good person but I am a lousy partner. I just can't give enough of myself to a relationship. I loose myself and am not very good at balancing the needs.

At the time of the breakup with my ex I didn't feel that way of course. I was heartbroken when he left but as time has passed I have come to appreciate that we are much better friends and parents than we were life partners. I might fantasize being in a life long love affair with my ex again or a new life partner and soul mate or whatever I tag it to be but I don't think in reality I am up for the work. My best life memories happened to me when I was on my own. I think I love the romance and the sense of being loved and charished by a special someone but it comes with a price and often the romance and magic of the love fades in time anyways.

Honestly, I think people put too much weight into finding a life partner. If it happens and you are up for the challenges than cool. Otherwise it isn't the only way to fill your life with the things and experiences you want. If you can afford a child then have a child with or without a live in dad. Kids can still thrive.

I think we need to think outside the box sometimes to fullfill our dreams. I think we have to ask ourselves and really explore why it is we want a life partner. Where does the need come from? What need does it fullfill? Maybe even make a list and see if there are things on that list that can be fullfilled without a partner but aren't pursued because we 'think' we need someone hooked at our hip who has commit their undying love to us before it is possible.

Maybe I have become jaded over the years. Perhaps. I think I have become realistic and modern. The marriage... life partnership of my fantasy is just that... a fantasy. It belongs in the movies. In real life marriage was designed as a partnership for survival. Each had a defined role to play share the workload and to have children to share the workload. Love was a bonus. Now we can survive without a partner. We can make enough money to support ourselves and technology has reduced the time it takes to cook and clean. We can now earn a living and keep ourselves fed and clean without someone else carrying any of the load. So now marriage has evolved to become a romantic fantasy. Anything short of that is reality and maybe I just haven't seen enough examples of it working well. We don't need marriage anymore to survive but we hang on to the fantasy of everlasting love and we wrap it in the marriage ribbon.

Marriage now is all about drama and compromise and tolerance and acceptance etc etc. just so you have someone to do things with.... if you are lucky enough to have the same interests over time. It is not a practical union anymore but it has become an fantasy indulgence.... a social habit. If it happens to become drama free then all I see are people resigned and comfortable at best.

I look at women who outlive their mate and more often than not once they get past the initial shock they begin to live the life of their dreams. They do things they couldn't do but always wanted to do when they were married. They become more social and more active and happier once they are no longer someone's wife. They may have escorts, playmates and lovers but they don't want a live in anymore.

I figure if I do get a craving for a man again I will just jump past the waiting for him to die phase before I live my own life and only let him in the door for an overnighters and vacations now and then. lol.

hahahaha.... you guys said it was okay if I babbled. There ya go. My views on marriage. The marters can have at it. Not me anymore. Been there, done that. hehehehe.

Hi there

Marjan sounds like the less keen you are on Kevin the more keen he will be on you but if you can stay friends with similar interests like hiking it would be a good thing

Sanity Seeker I love your babble and views. I think that you are very right about widows etc having the time of their lives after the grieving has passed. Marriage is a world of compromise and drama in my opinion - okay so I haven't been married in the traditional sense but I felt like what Mark and I had was a marriage in a practial sense... the house with the mortgage and all the responsibilities that go with it. I did everything to make him happy and I was burning ME out.. but that is just the way I am so I don't think it will change other than I may have a day of being selfish if I have another relationship

I have been thinking about him a lot over the past two weeks - still trying to find answers I think - though I don't exactly know the questions haha. My latest theory is that I stopped 'needing' him - in a sense I was in control of everything and if I wanted something done or needed emotional support then I relied on myself... In a way it was so that he didn't stress over me but I think that Lisa 'needed' him and that was part of the reason he is with her.. she was always having troubles with her boyfriend and Mark would come home with stories of the 'receptionist' crying again at work blah blah..
Enough pondering on a subject that I will never have the answers for

I have an old high school friend coming to visit this weekend.. shoul dbe fun as I haven't seen him in such a long time. I asked Chris if he wanted to go out with us on the weekend and Chris asked if he would be the 'third wheel'.. I don't see it like that and have invited a few others just so that no one feels left out... Hope that I have a good time

Hope you are both well and feeling as positive as me!

Ain't that the truth. As soon as you don't want them they want you. Funny how it works that way.

I am just like you Belle. I invest all of me into making him happy and ask nothing of myself. When I did get sick and became needy I still wouldn't let him and the craziness was too much for him. I don't trust myself not to repeat the performance because a part of me will not trust anyone to stick with me and if I come to need them or depend on them, rely on them for emotional support and they abandon me then I will be crushed beyond recovery. Self sufficience is a greater need I guess. I have huge abandonment issues.

I think its perfectly natural to still be thinking about Mark. I still think about my ex and wonder all the time 'what if'. It has been 5 years now so those thoughts are fleeting and pretty much balanced out with thinking it worked out for the best.

Sounds like a really exciting weekend you have planned. Group outings will be fun.

I am mostly positive or at least making the effort to stay hopeful. I got some bad news this morning when I learned one of my client's managers is on an extended leave and may not return to work. She was responsible for contracting me for a lot of work over the years. We had a project floating that I was expecting to pick up again before the end of March but with her gone so has my hope for work from her organization any time soon.

This afternoon I got a call to come in for an interview for a job I applied to so that renewed my hopes. Life goes on.

Good Luck with the interview! let us know how it goes xx

Therapy last night didn't leave bouncy but that's because I am bouncy 99% of the time these days anyway

I talked with him about everything from the past 3 weeks.. and really there wasn't much to 'hit on' other than I am doing REALLY well... He even asked what role I want him to play from now on - more of a sounding board as I don't really have the issues that I did before. We are going to work on my self esteem and anything else that happens between appointments (if there is stuff I need to talk over) plus helping me give up smoking..
It was a good session and only validates how I am feeling now - like the depression is really subsiding. I will have dark moments, that's natural. The general feelings that I have these days are 'good' not bad.

Talked with him about thinking about Mark for the past week or so. He wasn't suprised or felt that it was something that really was an issue. You spend 5 years with someone and of course you are going to think about them, things will remind you of the person - all natural too.

I asked him if my lack of anxiety and feeling more confident was the meds... his opinion is no, that this is the REAL me - yes I'll still have outside anxiety but the inside me knows that I can deal with anything that life throws at me.. I've overcome a drinking problem, an eating disorder (99%) and I'm on my way to getting over depression for the second time!

His opinion of Mark - that he is still getting some emotional support from me, sex and happiness from her and that he shouldn't have gotten into a new relationship let alone engaged as he REALLY hasn't dealt with the break up properly and it will cause MAJOR issues down the track. That made me a little happy (the not nice me anyway)... can't explain it really - just knowing that it will fall to bits one day is a nice thought after me going through so much pain and him being 'happy' when I was hurting so much.... one day it will be his turn!

Okay so I've babbled a bit and it probably doesn't make much sense but I wanted to get all the thoughts out while they were still fresh in my mind!

Sounds good Belle but you are killing me!! What did he say about you still having contact with Mark. I suspect that since you are doing well overall that he may not see it as a problem but I am curious just the same.

So nice to hear you so positive and happy. Yippee!!

Contact is 'okay' - yeah it would be preferable to cut it but it's not harming me anymore so I can continue with it. I do want to be eventually be 'friends' like real friends with Mark - keeping a low key contact for me feels right... even if it can produce the occassional emotion...

I hope you are doing well too xxx

Kind of figured that. To be friends with Mark would mean you would need to be friends with her.... assuming she is around for long. I can't imagine you would be up for that any time soon.

My ex stayed in touch with his ex-wife over the years we were together but I never did meet her. We never did marry though we lived together common law longer than he was with his wife. I would have been okay with it but I don't think she ever wanted to meet me. We lived 12 hours apart anyways. They had never been able to have children so the fact that we had a son probably made it painful to her too.

Another my my ex's ex's whom he did have a child with but never lived with (I know... a bit of a player my ex) became very much a part of our family and she and I actually became good friends. Still are as mother's of our mutual ex's children. We would sometimes have Christmas together and vacation together in the summer.

I am doing okay for the most part. I bit nervous about the interview on Monday. Did some background research today in preparation and going to do some more over the weekend. Mostly just keeping myself from letting the anxiety get a grip. It will be fine. I know that and just keep telling myself. We got some snow last night. The last blast of winter before spring can official come. Now its rain but hoping it will ease up enough to allow for some garden time this weekend.

I guess your weekend is underway now... Have a wonderful time with your old and new friends.

Hi Sanity Seeker
Weekend no under way just yet.. i finish work in 45minutes.. then it will be relaxing time!

I don't think I would be friends with her - EVER but things can change I guess.

One thing that my T said to me that stuck in my head... and I think it applies to you and Marjan as well, is along the lines of; we have been able to overcome and get on with life no matter what is thrown at us - that's really special and deep down inside (hard to find sometimes) is the knowledge that we are stong people who have overcome things and can do it again and again... Just trust in ourselves.

good to see you girls being progressive and hoping for a better future.....

Belle, if you think keeping your friendship with Mark will work for you, then you should keep your friendship....

and Sanityseeker, good luck to you on your interview.....just stay positive and you will get it....let us know....

OMG....Kevin has texted me today saying "it's such a great day outside"....and I didn't text him back......I feel so horrible......I started the whole thing....It was me who liked him and started, but now I have no feelings and desired for him at all.....now, I can get related to guys who don't call all of a sudden and we are wonder what has happened......

I don't know what to do really? He doesn't get it that I'm not into him.....I have to tell him directly, but I'm extreamly busy these days and I don't want to even initiate going out with him......such a jerk I am....I feel like an *** hole.....I hate anybody does such a thing to me....but if I see a guy stop calling me, I don't bother him....I do respect his decision and leave him alone....I hate to be clingy and keep calling the guy....so what? if he doesn't want me, there is nothing wrong with it.....

I really liked Aaron and it was hurtful he stopped calling me and getting in touch with me, but I respected his decision and I left him alone.....

Now, I feel so guilty for ignoring Kevin, but at the same time, I think I'm doing him a favor...He won't be happy in a relationship with me while I'm not liking him.....

I'm so busy these days at work....crazy crazy....and then I have to take care of stuff after work.....I wish I had a husband who could help me....hehehe.....wishing is okay, although it can be a fantasy

wish you all health and happiness
Marjan

Hi Marjan

maybe you should just tell Kevin that you are interested in only friendship... I know it's a sucky line but I think I'd rather be told that than just wondering why someone didn't answer my texts... As you said now you know what it's like from the guys point of view when they don't reply...
I don't know if I could tell someone that though so it's just a though

Stay healthy, happy and as care free as possible.

Love you both for being there for me!!

ya....he texted me yesterday that he wants to see me this weekend for a movie or hike....I texted him back to meet him for a coffee and I want to tell him.....gosh....I wish he was making it easier on me and not getting in touch.....I have no idea what to tell him....how to break up softly.....
What is bothering me is that he's supper slow....like even when I texted him back, it took him 5 hours to text me back.....I'm kinda frustrated at him....I don't like even friendship like this....he doesn't call, he emails or texts me.....leave me alone....this is not a way to have relationship.....arggg.....if he asks me specifically why I don't want it....I will be bold with him, because I'm fed up right now.....it looks like he's so stupid for not getting it!!!!
but in general my plan is just telling him that I don't see the chemistry is there.....oh....good luck to me....I hate doing that! well....I don't see myself at all going out with him.....there are certain things about him that is bothering me....and I shouldn't have gone out with him from the first place....but nothing has really happened between us....we even slept together and he didn't do anything....oh....that was so bizarre.....
I'll let you know how it goes.....

Good luck to you Marjn. Honesty is always the best policy... cloaked in kindness of course. You can't predict how he will respond but if you are honest and kind it will work out. It is rather odd that he allows so much time to go by between contacts. I can see why that would irritate you. Maybe if you asked him what he wanted from the relationship that might be a good way to open the dialogue. He may surprise you or he may be dumbfounded and have nothing to say. Either way it gives you an opportunity to say what you want or don't want from the relationship or if you even want to continue any kind of friendship going forward.

I think you will be relieved once you have this conversation so good on you for going there with him.

thanks Sanityseeker, I should have read your advice earlier....that was a good one....but anyway....I met him at the Coffee Beans...we went inside to order....He's supper slow, I ordered a tea and he didn't even offer to pay...and I just paid for myself....then I told him...I will wait for you outside.....he kept asking me "what's going on Marjan?"...and I was saying "nothing"....then he asked me so many times which irritated me and I told him...."why do you keep asking me the same question? can you be more specific? there is nothing going on in my life....same thing...go to work, come back, go to GYM"....then he said...."no new car? no new home? nothing?"....arggg....such a child...so useless talk....and he was giggling....I hate that laugh....I think he gets nervous that's why he keeps laughing the time that is nothing funny.....
then I told him...I said..."I'm not looking for a relationship right now and anyway, I don't think there is any Chemistry between us! I think you feel the same way".....he said "not necessary that I feel the same way, but I understand and it's okay....why are you nervous telling me?"!!!!
I wanted to punch on his head....stupid guy, of course I'm nervous because I'm delivering a bad news....so, I told him..."because this is not a good thing to tell anybody, probably that's why I'm nervous!".....then we talked a bit....and I told him....I thought you will figure out by me not contacting you at all, but there was nothing really between us to break it....anyway, at the end we said good bye and he said from now on you will just hand shake me, I said no, we can hug...and I hugged him and I left....
ya...kinda relief, but that didn't leave me a good feelings at all....When would I find a right guy?
Then tonight, I saw Aaron at the dance party from the class....He's been absent for awhile and it was good to not being worry about him.....I know when he doesn't come often to the class he's busy with a new girl....but it's interesting how time plays its part....now, each time I see him, I care less and less about him....I didn't feel that attraction with him at all....I didn't ask him to dance, but he sat next to me and talked to me....and then he came over for a Batchata dance which is very romantic and two partners are usually holding each other the whole time....I haven't danced Batchata for awhile, and he wasn't doing it right either....that made us laugh so hard.....his friend told me that Aaron is dating a new girl who has a PHD!!!! and the last girlfriend was a teacher...the smart girl who dumped him....his friend is funny told me that Aaron is a good guy but a player and he doesn't know that he's a player....hehehe.....he asked me if I ever want to get back to him....I said no way....we fight too much....I don't want it....and honesty, I meant it....I'm free from him.....
How does it work? how comes he can find a girl this much quickly and I can't find a guy so quickly? I can't get attracted to any guys....I'm getting so scared....really....I'm so affraid to end up alone....I'm doing so find....and having my spritual path which is helping me....but I want to have a partner and kids....and I'm running late....hate to admit it....
ya....I'm doing good....probably, I got to know myself better before getting to any more relationship....It feels I'm in a journey....learning more about myself everyday.....and I love it....
oh...it's better I get to bed....I'm so tired after a long day with two hours straight dancing....and tomorrow I'm hiking....hope I can move my legs....hehehe....
Thanks guys for reading my long story.....and sorry for nagging....I'm so happy to have you guys and tell you about my thoughts and my life.....I'm not telling my friends and family that much anymore.....I'm trying to be wise and not get into talking to people too much and get into trouble....
hug
Marjan

Now breath a sigh of relief that you were honest with Kevin and the stress of that relation is over and done with. Now you can stop worrying and wondering about him. You know your heart with respect to Aaron and so he can't hurt you anymore. You are finally free to find that special someone.

My ex is quite the player too. He never has a problem finding women to spend time with. They seem to pop out of the woodwork for him. lol. I am not looking but if I were there aren't any knocking down my door or passing a wink or a smile in my direction anyways. Funny how that goes.

You have so much to be grateful right now in terms of how well you are doing so I get how ready you are to find that special someone to settle down with and raise a family with. I think the key is to try not to be too desperate. Sometimes a woman can be so single minded in that desire that they chase guys away with it. You may not think it shows but according to some men they can smell it on a woman. lol.

Maybe you need to take a page out of Belle's book for a while and set it in your mind that you just want to date without looking at every date as a potential long term commitment. Perhaps if you take the pressure off from the start you will begin to notice men and men will notice you that you might otherwise have missed.

Allow yourself to live in the now and trust that your hopes and dreams for a husband and a family will be fullfilled in its perfect time. If by chance it is not meant to be at least you will have adopted a lifestyle where you can enjoy the company of men without expectations. You will know just like you did with Kevin whether or not it meets your needs. You know now that you can be honest with a guy without it breaking their heart.

Its all good Marjn. It will all work out in its perfect time. Trust that and enjoy life as it comes. Take care.

I once was taken by a man who I had the hardest time letting go of. It was not until he told me that he was engaged was I able to start the process of really letting go of him. I understand by what you mean by being relieved.