[ACanthony]

Hello all. I thank you for the help in advance. I am 26 years old. Have been dating "Gina" for nearly a year. Gina's previous relationship ended because her boyfriend cheated on her. They were engaged to be married and obviously the news of the cheating really affected Gina in a terrible way. We have a very healthy relationship and we love each other very much and are close in every way. The only major obstacle is however Gina's thoughts nowadays. She will think thoughts about people and just assume they are lying because of what she went through with her ex fiancee's cheating. Most of those thoughts are geared towards me (i.e. if I tell her I'm in the library she'll sometimes think 'is he really in the library? what if he's with someone else?). She knows that I'll never lie to her and God forbid cheat on her (she knows that with 100% certainty), but yet she still thinks them. And after she does think them, it gets her thinking negatively and it will often take hours for her to snap out of this negative spiral of thoughts. She will never tell me her thoughts because she knows they are very irrational thoughts. Here lies the problem: I tell her I don't care and that I'd like to know her thoughts. Gina puts up a wall when she gets negative like this. Like I'll ask her how she is doing and she'll say "I'm good" yet I know there is something wrong and it is entirely frustrating not knowing what the exact problem she has or what she is dealing with. I tell her all the time, I don't mind if she gets sad, that is normal, but I need to know the problem because we need to be honest with each other. If I know she is not fine and all I hear is "I'm good" "I feel fine" it's entirely frustrating. Oftentimes I have to ask over and over again what the problem is until she finally tells me. It's a relief because then I know what I'm dealing with. She tells me all the time to "just drop it" but I know that bottling your thoughts up cannot be healthy. She has the mentality of "I'll get better but I just need time for these thoughts to go away and I need to deal with it myself." But it's NOT healthy and it will take hours, if not a day or two for her to be happy again. I truly would like to just see her happy because she IS a happy person. And I'm perfectly okay when she is sad, but the not knowing why she is sad KILLS me. Also, if I try to help her she tells me I'm making it worse. From a personal standpoint too, it's often frustrating talking and I know she is just not listening because she's thinking negative thoughts. Also, I have battled my own depression and sometimes talking and having "Gina" not really listen to me is tough because I feel like I'm doing something wrong. So my question is, how exactly should I go about the situation? I'm very supportive of her and love her to death but I honestly don't know how to go about helping someone who tells me they really don't need help and things will "just get better." Things do get better, but you either have to pray real hard or actually work at doing something better. FYI this is a long distance relationship (4 hours in distance). Other things to note that may be of help: Gina doesn't have too many friends that live in her area, she feels uncomfortable talking to her problems with anyone (although she'll tell me certain things). I know I have to continue to support her but I'm actually split on acknowledging she has a huge major problem and needs to see a therapist or if it's more like a minor defect and if she changes a few things with the way she thinks she'll get better....Her behavior when she is like this is she'll be very short (all answers are "i'm good" "fine" "okay"), she doesn't really display much emotion. She can pretend she's fine for a little bit which is the hard part, because she doesn't just "shut off" right away after thinking a though but rather she'll think it through and then shut off an hour later. Then I really don't know what the problem is. From a personal standpoint, I'm a very honest person and she knows that. I make it clear to her I'm honest and nothing can be changed on my end (although I'm open to suggestions of course!) Thank you all so much!

Welcome to the Community, ACanthony. What you describe is causing problems with the relationship. Joint therapy in my view would benefit both of you.

Be well.

[QUEEN OF WANDS]

Gina puts up a wall when she gets negative like this. ..........But it's NOT healthy and it will take hours, if not a day or two for her to be happy again. ..............."I'll get better but I just need time for these thoughts to go away and I need to deal with it myself." But it's NOT healthy and it will take hours, if not a day or two for her to be happy again....she doesn't just "shut off" right away after thinking a though but rather she'll think it through and then shut off an hour later. you are wonderful for caring about your girlfriend in such a way...i amend you for catching early signs..i have alot of my own problems but i recognize these signs and a RED FLAG goes up...dont pressure her too much because until she is ready she may resent you for it,but the longer she doesnt open up the worse she may get...there may be problems in the relationship that is not obvious to you,ie distance....tell her what you want for a future and how you want to spend it with her happily and if that means she should talk to someone about what is going on inside of her then she may realize it. try councelling together...i think with your love and support she will be ok

[ACanthony]

I definitely agree she needs some therapy. However, she is unwilling to go. Her rationale is "If I can't even open up to you about my thoughts, how am I going to open up for a complete stranger?" I agree with her. I know if she went to a counselor she'd just start crying as soon she started to speak. Also, the distance does affect her but that's not necessarily a role in what she's going through. She'll often "shut off" like this in person too. She just has a problem with negative thinking and she gets derailed by it. And it causes her to just shut off and not be happy...From a selfish point of view, I want her to get better because it makes me feel like I'm doing something wrong. I am very loving towards her but I know sometimes she'll take something I say that is harmless and twist it. I go out of my way not to say anything I know she'll twist but that's impossible to do all the time. So it makes me feel inadequate as a boyfriend (even if I know all the negative thoughts aren't ALL caused by me). Also, I'm not the MOST talkative person in the world so when she shuts off my conversational skills aren't good enough to carry us through the conversation we are having and it frustrates me.

[AkAngel]

I'm going to disagree with the idea that you should try joint counseling. What you have described sounds like Paranoid personality disorder in which family or relationship counseling is contraindicated. Unfortunately, individual counseling for PPD is not usually effective either as the person tends to discontinue treatment if the T seems to be getting too close, or during a paranoid episode when their motives are in question.

I wish you well with whatever you decide.

[ACanthony]

Originally Posted by AkAngel

I'm going to disagree with the idea that you should try joint counseling. What you have described sounds like Paranoid personality disorder in which family or relationship counseling is contraindicated. Unfortunately, individual counseling for PPD is not usually effective either as the person tends to discontinue treatment if the T seems to be getting too close, or during a paranoid episode when their motives are in question.

I wish you well with whatever you decide.

I looked into Paranoid Personality Disorder and that seems to fit "Gina" to a t. This is exactly what she has it seems. I wouldn't necessarily describe her as paranoid but out of the I think 10 characeristics of PPD (needing 3 to qualify as PPD) she fits about 5 or 6 of them. She definitely would not go into therapy, as if she cannot tell me something she would not be able to tell anyone. I'm just questioning what exactly can I do besides keep trying and supporting?

[Perna]

I think you have to let her have her own feelings and discuss them in her own way. If she says she's fine, doesn't matter if you think she is not! She doesn't have to talk about her feelings if she doesn't want; they're her feelings.

I can understand that she would have a hard time getting over a fiance that lied and cheated on her and think other people were doing the same but that too is her problem and, since you don't mind that she thinks it about you, that's even better. If your being away from her/at the library triggers her and gets her into a funk, she has to learn to get herself out of the funk, you can't do a whole lot for her there but be yourself and comfortable with yourself and with her, however she is.

If you feel Gina is not listening to you and you want her to, you have to tell her, "Hey, it feels to me like you're not listening and this is important to me!" You have to check your idea of whether she is listening, or self-involved, or reciting nonsense verses in her head :-) with her!

[AkAngel]

Originally Posted by ACanthony

I looked into Paranoid Personality Disorder and that seems to fit "Gina" to a t. This is exactly what she has it seems. I'm just questioning what exactly can I do besides keep trying and supporting?

Unfortunately I have no helpful advice for living with someone with PPD. Typically what people believe is 'trying and supportive' ends up looking a lot like compromising themselves rather than compromising. Accept that you may not be able to do much for her, if anything, and try to maintain your boundaries and not lose yourself.

By not losing yourself, I mean, her paranoia and fears are not your responsibility. In a healthy relationship we are mostly responsible for our own feelings. I say mostly because, for instance, we may come to ask or depend on our partner to esteem us from time to time and the relationship can still be healthy. However, there is a difference between a request for emotional support and an obligatory responsibility. If she was to demand proof that you were at the library, are you able to say 'no'? It is not your responsibility to assuage her paranoia at every turn and if you accept that responsibility then you are not helping her, you are enabling her.

[ACanthony1984]

If she was to demand proof that you were at the library, are you able to say 'no'? It is not your responsibility to assuage her paranoia at every turn and if you accept that responsibility then you are not helping her, you are enabling her.[/quote]

Well the thing is, she'll never accuse me of lying or cheating. She'll never ask me things like "Where are you? Who are you with?" But I know exactly when she shuts off and I know she is thinking those things in her head. It affects me because when she thinks these things, she literally just does not talk and gives me one word answers. It's uncomfortable on several levels. Sometimes she'll tell me the thoughts will go away and I really try my hardest just to go on as if nothing has happened but the thought doesn't go away. It isn't until she sees me visibly frustrated that she'll tell me what's on her mind.

[AkAngel]

Originally Posted by ACanthony1984

Well the thing is, she'll never accuse me of lying or cheating. She'll never ask me things like "Where are you? Who are you with?"

But she does ask. She simply asks passively. Proof of that is in your next sentence...

Originally Posted by ACanthony1984

But I know exactly when she shuts off and I know she is thinking those things in her head.

She knows that too and she is winning the power struggle. You know she is thinking that and just in case you somehow forget,

Originally Posted by ACanthony1984

...she literally just does not talk and gives me one word answers.

Her paranoia is controlling the relationship. You can still say 'no' when she demands proof if you were at the library (I'm trying to go with this library analogy, work with me). However, since she doesn't ask or confront you directly, you have to say 'no' indirectly as well.

When she shuts down and starts answering your questions with one word answers, stop engaging her! Tell her that you look forward to spending some quality time with her and when she is feeling better to let you know, and that you'll be in the living room reading (or whatever). I know that will be hard, but you said you want to help. Helping will be hard. Fact is, the relationship may not survive this issue, but I think it has the best chance of surviving if you set some firm boundaries around this. You are NOT going to chase her around begging her to talk to you. You are not going to behave as if you are uncomfortable. If she insists on being bad company, you will keep your own company - or even spend some time with other friends (granted that might be hard in a LDR cause you're probably getting together just to see each other).

I came across kind of definitive in that post - let me add, this is my opinion.

Basically telling Gina she is on her own is not working. Professional help would allow both sides to receive help.

[ACanthony]

'When she shuts down and starts answering your questions with one word answers, stop engaging her! Tell her that you look forward to spending some quality time with her and when she is feeling better to let you know, and that you'll be in the living room reading (or whatever). I know that will be hard, but you said you want to help. Helping will be hard. Fact is, the relationship may not survive this issue, but I think it has the best chance of surviving if you set some firm boundaries around this. You are NOT going to chase her around begging her to talk to you. You are not going to behave as if you are uncomfortable. If she insists on being bad company, you will keep your own company - or even spend some time with other friends (granted that might be hard in a LDR cause you're probably getting together just to see each other)."

I appreciate the advice. It is hard, however, because it is a long distance relationship, so all we have is our emails and phone conversations. If she's like that on the phone and i disengage her, then I don't get to talk to her that day. If she's like that in person then I'm kind of stuck with her for two days. It's also tough because if we are on the phone, literally everything can be fine and then all of a sudden she'll shut off so it's hard transitioning from being great on the phone to talking to someone who is not talking to you. I hate when I have to say "Is it everything okay? Is there anything wrong? I know something is wrong, just please tell me and if it's something that I won't like I will not be mad at you and we'll work through it together." I hate that line of thinking because honestly it depresses me. Obviously being sad is a normal part of life and if she was sad literally every day but she told me why and it was something we could work on together or atleast something I could help her with, then that would be a lot healthier for me. I'm fighting a problem now that I can't help her with and I don't even know what the problem is half the time.

[AkAngel]

Originally Posted by ACanthony

I appreciate the advice. It is hard, however, because it is a long distance relationship, so all we have is our emails and phone conversations. If she's like that on the phone and i disengage her, then I don't get to talk to her that day.

I know it's hard, my wife and I are in a long distance relationship (630 miles). While I make it up to see her once a week, I know how important that time is. When I'm not up there all we have is the phone.

Originally Posted by ACanthony

It's also tough because if we are on the phone, literally everything can be fine and then all of a sudden she'll shut off so it's hard transitioning from being great on the phone to talking to someone who is not talking to you.

Check out what you just said though. Just a moment ago you said, "If she's like that on the phone and i disengage her, then I don't get to talk to her that day." and here you say, "...transitioning from being great on the phone to talking to someone who is not talking to you."

If she's made the transition to being someone who is not talking to you, then you don't get to talk to her anyway - whether you disengage or not. Disengaging seems healthier to me and the outcome is the same - you're not talking anyway.

Originally Posted by ACanthony

I hate when I have to say "Is it everything okay? Is there anything wrong? I know something is wrong, just please tell me and if it's something that I won't like I will not be mad at you and we'll work through it together." I hate that line of thinking because honestly it depresses me.

First of all, you don't have to say that. If you hate it - stop doing it. You don't have to and history tells you it doesn't work anyway. The Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous gives an apropos definition on insanity which says, "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results."

Originally Posted by ACanthony

I'm fighting a problem now that I can't help her with and I don't even know what the problem is half the time.

True words spoken there, let that sink in a bit. Look, I know it hurts and I'm sorry for that. I wish you all the best and truly hope you find a solution and happiness...but if you can't find both, I wish you happiness.

it's obvious you really care for her but i think you're trying too hard to fix her. i think it's better to back off a bit and let her come around in her own time. you might want to do some reading on co-dependency and learning to keep the focus more on yourself. you just can't change people no matter how much you want to help. it would be better to accept her how she is--negative thinking and all--or find someone else. she may eventually end up resenting you if you keep trying to "help" her because it can quickly cease to feel like help and end up feeling more like you're being controlled and harassed. sorry, i know that probably isn't what you want to hear.

I remain of the opinion that joint counseling would be beneficial. The therapist can help her see how what she does is affecting the relationship. What is going on is not a healthy relationship. Being alone in your own house does neither any good.

http://personalitydisorders.suite101...ality_disorder

[AkAngel]

Originally Posted by TheByzantine

I remain of the opinion that joint counseling would be beneficial.

I'm thinking that you may have missed post #6 where he said, "She definitely would not go into therapy..." I did however, read the link that you procured. It had much good information although it too said, "Group and family therapy, not surprisingly, is not of much use in the treatment of PPD due to the mistrust people with PPD feel towards others."

I understand you feel strongly about this, is there something about joint therapy in this case that you feel seperates it from most other PPD cases?

[ACanthony]

[QUOTE=TheByzantine;1390167]I remain of the opinion that joint counseling would be beneficial. The therapist can help her see how what she does is affecting the relationship. What is going on is not a healthy relationship. Being alone in your own house does neither any good.

Well I would not go as far to say this is not a healthy relationship. I would actually argue the opposite. It's very healthy. The lines of communication are always open, no one has ever lied, there's no cheating, there's a lot of love, we never "fight". But yes THIS aspect of the relationship is unhealthy. It's not 100% healthy but obviously there are things we need to fix. There's a lot of love there between us and I think that goes very far, even if there is a major communication problem. It's like we communicate great but at the same time when she goes through this episode it's very frustrating and obviously the communication is lacking.

My solution for right now is i'm going to back off. I told her the things I would do if I were in her shoes and how I would approach it, and then I told her that if there's anything she needs I'm always there but I'm gonna stop approaching this like it's MY problem. I told her to patient with herself and eventually she'll find answers....Thanks for all your help guys.

And the article also said:

Psychotherapy and PPD
If the patient will submit to treatment, psychotherapy has been the most promising treatment method for those with Paranoid Personality Disorder, and can be useful in helping the patient control his or her paranoia. Group and family therapy, not surprisingly, is not of much use in the treatment of PPD due to the mistrust people with PPD feel towards others.

As personality is a relatively stable, deeply rooted aspect of self, the long-term projection for those with Paranoid Personality disorder is often bleak. Most patients experience the symptoms of their disorder for their entire life and, in order to manage their symptoms of paranoia, require consistent therapy (Dobbert 2007, Kantor 2004).

For one thing the article is about individual therapy. If ACanthony could convince her to go with him, who knows what would happen? To take a chance on joint therapy may not change anything. Just the same, the other suggestions that have been made lead to a married but separate relationship.

I do not intend to engage in a debate with you. To do so would not be offering information and support as the Guidelines require.

Good luck in resolving this, ACanthony. I wish you the best.