[luvsthebeach]

Long story but will summarize - I really am worried and love my daughter and grand children. She left school at 18, got pregnant by a guy she new a couple of months and left out of state with him. We only met him once, he seemed very charming, but turns out some things don't seem truthful. Apparently had a miscarriage. Stayed with him. Went to see where they lived and they were in a trailer in the midwest, no one cleaned or picked up the trash there. They got evicted. She got pg. again and gave birth to a boy. They moved into an apt. Went to visit, he created drama/trouble for me for coming with gifts. He yelled at my daughter and pointed his finger in her face. He took her away and left the apt. so we could not visit. They moved to Missouri, ended up living in someone's basement. According to the woman they were staying with, my daughter didn't get much food and her husband was gone a lot and only brought her fast food once in a while. She was extremely anemic at time of birth and almost needed transfusions. We knew very little as she didn't communicate much at all. Person they stayed with said they felt sorry for my daughter, but the relationship was "sick," and the lady was afraid of him. I told her she was there and could call social services if she was worried, but she said she feared to do so. Daughter then had another baby, moved to Vegas. Got preg. again so child #3. They moved back to the midwest by his parents. First married Wiccan, then joined Catholic Church, then dropped that. Now she is living in a house back in the original state they moved to, Iowa. Went to visit and her husband looks disheveled, hasn't shaved, cannot keep jobs and won't make eye contact with me or my husband. He is obsessed with race car driving. He seems to resent our existence. He alternatively seems angry or zoned out.Her husband also bought a large gun - I think a 44 or something bigger than 9mm. This worries me. Her husband also has a long rap sheet of arrests mainly for traffic and doesn't have a valid license. Went to visit and he has a sprained arm, allegedly for hitting some guy's mirror on his car because he was cut off in traffic. He also has to come up with money to go to jail for not having a valid license and being a habitual offender. My daughter is trying to maintain her sanity with the children, but I think she's in denial. We have regular contact weekly via phone (we live away from her out of state). Her husband let the son come to visit us, but the son, age 9, keeps offering that his father is a good father and feeds them and is very, very nice. This is odd that a child would approach us and be telling us these things. He did so after his dad called him upstairs and then he came down and told me this. He also repeats this randomly when he is with my husband or myself. We have never said a bad word about the father since we want to maintain contact with the family. My daughter has no job, tried to go to class to be a nurse. Now she has no internet service and needs a printer. So it may be that she cannot take a class this fall. She also has no job or money of her own. Husband doesn't help much with the kids. She needed money for gas and when my husband (her Dad) came to visit he bought all the kids school supplies. Daughter's husband didn't offer to pay and he said he only had $2 to give her for gas money. There appears to probably be a shortage of money and psychological safety in the household. They have 2 dogs, a cat, 3 hamsters to feed as well. They had a stray cat in the garage they were feeding, but it turned up dead somehow and is now laying outside the garage. My daughter just acts like it's life as usual and I feel she has no power. My Husband agrees. I don't know how to talk to her because it seems as if she is completely under the spell of her husband (or control.). Please offer insights. We don't know if this is mental illness, drug abuse or what. I don't know what to say to my daughter since she seems afraid to address the issues. Thanks.

[Rhiannonsmoon]

Hello (((( ((((luvsthebeach)))) ))))

What a sad situation for you all to be in. Personally feel that he is an opinionated abuser. Sounds like my nieces partner. Obviously the child was schooled in what to say to you about the father that is a serious concern because that child is going to grow up to be just like him, deceitful, abusive and obsessive because those traits become learnt behaviours if not inherited behaviours.

I would have called welfare a long time ago but that is me and I am a different person to you. You are trying to maintain contact with a fragile family. I think that your daughter is either classically abused and doesn't know how to get out of it with 3 kids or she is as you say in denial. There is only one way to find out and that is to ask her if you can?

Please keep us updated so that you know you are supported and that we do genuinely wish to help you with this if we can,

(((( ((((HUGS)))) ))))

Rhiannon

[luvsthebeach]

Originally Posted by Rhiannonsmoon

Hello (((( ((((luvsthebeach)))) ))))

What a sad situation for you all to be in. Personally feel that he is an opinionated abuser. Sounds like my nieces partner. Obviously the child was schooled in what to say to you about the father that is a serious concern because that child is going to grow up to be just like him, deceitful, abusive and obsessive because those traits become learnt behaviours if not inherited behaviours.

I would have called welfare a long time ago but that is me and I am a different person to you. You are trying to maintain contact with a fragile family. I think that your daughter is either classically abused and doesn't know how to get out of it with 3 kids or she is as you say in denial. There is only one way to find out and that is to ask her if you can?

Please keep us updated so that you know you are supported and that we do genuinely wish to help you with this if we can,

(((( ((((HUGS)))) ))))

Rhiannon

I have tried getting through to her, but they have moved a lot across the country. Further, when I did try to get her info for rights as a renter, he created a scene (don't want to go into all that but I have pages of notes about it). He truly is bizarre in behavior and very controlling. If we do drive to visit it's 6 hrs. drive and we don't get any private time with her, he is always there. He takes off work if he knows we are coming. He seems to be barely working again. Last week we saw them it looked like he hasn't shaved in days and he appeared to have not slept at all. We cannot figure out what's going on. Our daughter definitely acts like life is just normal - but I think she is hiding her pain and predicament. We will remind her again if she ever wants to get out that we can be there for her. I also gave her the number of a domestic abuse shelter years ago, but she said she didn't need it. At least she has his parents there, I think they pay a lot of the bills. My daughter hasn't worked in 9 yrs, but wants to be a nurse. The lack of stability worries me as does her daily stress she must live under. Thank you for your thoughts, I just don't know how to convince her that her life won't get better with this guy (after 9 yrs. of ridiculousness).

I want to add two other things, when I went to visit, we drove by a cemetery and my daughter said, "that would be a nice cemetery to be buried in." On the way back when my husband drove our grandson home, he told my DH, "I don't want to die." I am concerned about the random statements which were out of context. Do you think her husband has been making threats to them or the grandson has overheard threats? If our daughter refuses to acknowledge problems due to fear, then how can we convince her to go to domestic counselor for advice?

Also, after my daughter was married to him, she found out he was getting sued by another young woman for child support. He denies that child is his and is way behind on child support payments. Essentially he has four children now to support and if he is constantly quitting or losing jobs, I hope he doesn't have some kind of breakdown and hurt anyone. The issue that really worries me is that I think this guy is capable of anything as he has an extreme impulse/anger issues that seem to be simmering below the surface. He also drives like a maniac and obviously doesn't have much self-control (besides maniupulation).

We found out a number of years ago that he told my daughter that I caused him to lose many jobs, which is absolutely untrue. I think behind the scenes he tells her things which she believes to keep control. So, over these years, she is convinced we have done things and how does one address that. It's like brainwashing. She should know better since she was raised by us and knows us well.

There are so many more things, but he was also in jail before a few years back for not having a valid license. Our daughter never told us, I found his record online. She always protects him and keeps secrets due to her unwillingness to face reality and make hard choices. If he doesn't come up with money by mid-Sept, he will have to go to jail again. She never told us this either, I found the citation online. I am thinking that his parents must have paid the bills the other time he was locked up. She never called us asking for money.

He is also obsessed with racing/fame and people he knows who are wealthy. He lives in a kind of fantasy life where he wants a lot of attention. Our grandson also randomly goes up to strangers starting conversations. They say he is very social. He is, but he is also constantly telling servers and other women they are "very pretty." When people laugh this encourages more of the socialness. At some points, we think it's a little over the top, but maybe he is just that social. His father was that way with us at first and seemed extremely outgoing and charming. Now looking back, it was obvious it was a show for us to gain our approval. We never knew his family back home or his true lifestyle, because he left with her and used my car. I had to tell her to come back home with my car which they did and that's when she told me was was pg. the first time (which ended in a miscarriage). We thought she'd come to her senses after that, come home and go to college. She is academically bright and comprehension way above average. She could have done anything wonderful with her life. She wanted to be a doctor. She is also very attractive and I think he uses her for his own self-esteem and then controls her. He just has some bizarre effect on her that is really dysfunctional. How can someone otherwise intelligent person want to continue to put up with his behavior and lack of stability?

What makes *him* like this? Is this due to his upbringing, or drugs, or mental illness? His bio father is not in his life and we know nothing about his background. We cannot see evidence of drug use, but I wouldn't rule it out as far as he goes.

We honestly don't think our daughter is using anything, bc she looks physically healthy and mentally aware/friendly toward us.
You can tell how much I worry about her and the grandchildren, I have a hard time sleeping at night. Sometimes I feel guilty eating because what if her refrigerator is bare some days? Just because she is grown up now and away from us, doesn't mean I don't always worry about her. She deserves so much better in life and I don't want her hurt any more.

Thank you once again for your kind words.

[Rhiannonsmoon]

Hello ((((luvsthebeach))))

I think that this situation is worriesome for you and your daughter and you need to make a decision based on what your grandson says.

It could be a simple comment about a subject which does stresses and bothers children (who rarely tell their parents about their worry) and makes them anxious.

But on the other hand it could be a real concern for his own safety. And if you genuinely are afraid then calling welfare without revealing who you are (so there is no backlash), may be the best option....

I wish you luck with this,

Rhiannon

[luvsthebeach]

Thank you for your thoughts, Rhiannon. When I first met him at our house, I asked him about his family and his mom ...he said his mom is a biker-type chick who could kick my ***.

When my grandson was born, I only saw my daughter shortly for dinner and there is more to that story. I brought all the baby gifts from the entire family and that's when he was screaming at her and pointing in her face. His behavior then was cruel. It was extreme and he made untrue accustations to try to get me into trouble. He then took my daughter and grandson so I couldn't visit the next day at all. He doesn't pull anything when my husband is along, only when I am there alone. He is a master of intimidation and scary. Everyone is scared of him because he acts normal in front of most people and then turns into someone else.

As I said, I think if this guy felt his family was going to break up, that someone or everyone would be hurt. It's the gun that scares me since it's in the home and readily available.

If I called social services on them, they looked around and everyone acted normal, then my daughter would never talk to us again. I think the best approach is to get her to think about her situation. At the same time, this guy is volatile and unpredictable. I have no idea what really goes on, on a daily basis and she is unwilling to be honest.

Last year the kids weren't in school - she was homeschooling them because they dropped out of the church. I know they probably had trouble paying the high tuition costs. I don't understand why they didn't go to the public schools, other than she claims they weren't that good. Well, this fall the kids are going to the public school in the new town where they live now. So, if anything, if any of the teachers notice remarks or comments, at least there is a chance someone else may notice anything amiss.

[Perna]

I don't think your daughter could pretend as well as she is if she were in real danger. She has to know you are there for her but that she doesn't do/say anything seems to be mostly her doing. You know she wants to be a nurse; I think you would know if she wanted to leave.

That her in-laws probably provide food and supplies is good; they are keeping an eye on the situation too. Anyway you can get their names/address and visit or call them? You might get a better picture that way.

The 9 year old is going to make "random" comments; kids do. I remember being with my niece and her making up a fantastical story that one would have thought she was mentally not all there but that's what children her age do. Think about yourself too, and what you "think" seeing things (like driving by a cemetery; you may think, "How pretty" or "I don't want to die") but you have better "control" over whether you say something or not; he's just learning. The "my father's a good father" thing does sound coached but if you have seen no evidence of bruises or broken bones, etc. or looks of fear, I wouldn't worry about physical abuse although it sounds like there's a lot of mental mess going around. But I'm sure the son-in-law knows you don't like him; how would you expect him to act, knowing that? He doesn't have a job, money, he has your daughter and you as in-laws not liking him; he's going to appear defensive and hang around to see what's happening, just like you are wishing to know what's going on in their lives.

I think you're "helping" as much as you can. I don't see any immediate problems or desire on your daughter's part to leave. If you can, I'd try to contact the other parents, see if you can get more information and/or give them money to funnel in (since it appears to be accepted from that quarter) or whatever. But there's only so much you can do from 600 miles away? I would keep in as good a contact as you can and let everyone know you care, get your husband to try to sort of make friends with the son-in-law, etc. I would try to give the sense of being friendly, relaxed rather than concerned. No one likes to think they're the object of pity or worry?

[luvsthebeach]

Thank you for your thoughts. We only have one income and cannot support two households though, so I don't think funneling our money is going to solve the issues there. I also don't think we should enable her to stay with someone who has intimidated her and us. As stated before, there are many more details which I've not shared.

We have only met his parents (his mom and step-father), once and the few times we've come down, we pay for meals and ask if his parents want to come with. All he says is no. We had one meal planned when we first met and came down and he called his parents and made some excuse for it to not occur. For whatever reason, he doesn't want the two sets of parents communicating (or so it seems). I don't have their address or phone number. I tried again last time we went down to invite them and again, the husband said no. So we have tried all we can, it's not that we don't try.

The husband also told my daughter that his step father was in the special forces. But the one time we met them, the step-father told my husband that he was a cook in the Army. We are told different things than our daughter is told and so whatever her husband says, she believes. You are right that this is up to my daughter. That doesn't mean I can't have concerns about her and the grand children. It will be a bigger problem if he's in jail again and no one is there to pick up the pieces because his parents are not making much money anymore and live in a trailer with her mom.

Thank you, however, and I do appreciate all opinions and offerings of suggestions.

I would pray he does go into prison and then pounce on my daughter for a week or two inviting her to stay with you, perhaps seeing life being on an even keel for her children will allow her to open up to you, if not then I dont really see anything you can do..

[Jenn1fer82]

If you feel your daughter and grand kids are in danger then simply call child services. What's the wait for?

[luvsthebeach]

Tishie - thank you and that is an excellent idea. (hugs)

[luvsthebeach]

Originally Posted by Jenn1fer82

If you feel your daughter and grand kids are in danger then simply call child services. What's the wait for?

I cannot find an immediate danger and if I call and nothing is found amiss that day, then we get retaliation and more distance.

I only see psychological issues at this time. So we try to maintain close contact via phone with our daughter and trying to establish a relationship with the grand children. We also send many packages to show we care for them and talk on the phone. We just had our grandson up here (he is 9) and we took him to the fair and museum and had a really great visit. Grandpa helped him put legos together and went fishing too.

[salukigirl]

Sadly I don't think anything can be done (by you) about the daughter. Having been in an abusive relationship, people constantly tried to get me to leave but I had to do it for myself and gain the self respect to realize I didn't deserve that. All you can do is help her realize that she does deserve better. Also, if he really is that scary, she may be afraid that if she does leave he will come and find her and possibly do even worse things. I know that when I finally left my ex I had to park my car in random places and have friends pick me up and drop me off because I was terrified to be around my own car because he had threatened to be waiting at it for me.

The child is what I'm worried about. If you feel that there is inherent danger in him being around the children then call children or human services. That is their job! I know that would mean the children would also be taken away from your daughter but maybe, if she sees that he isn't fit (according to the gov't) to take care of their children, maybe she will realize how terrible he is?

Cutting her off from family and taking her away whenever something doesn't go his way is an absolute sign of abuse. Whether he physically abuses anyone in the household or only emotionally, they are both unacceptable. Unfortunately, many women won't listen to their family when it comes to these things. I know I didn't. What's even more sad is that most people don't call the cops when they hear or suspect spousal abuse. Go to Youtube.com and search for POWA ad. This guy did an experiment where he played drums all night and watched as people yelled at him to stop. Then another night he blasted audio of a woman being beaten by a man and no one called the cops or came to see what was going on. That video about made me cry.

I sincerely hope things work out for your daughter and the children. He sounds extremely dangerous. I'm glad that you recognize the signs and want to help!

[luvsthebeach]

Thank you salukigirl. I can see you struggled with your issues and hopefully you are well now. As for my daughter, I have to gain my own perspective and stop trying to fix things. I can only be here if she is ever willing to do the healthy thing. I think this started so fast and has been so long now, it's what she is accustomed to. As long as she believes his lies and puts up with his behavior and not working/losing jobs all the time, then I can only hope she realizes the effects on the children. Very sad, indeed. Let's hope that day comes where she has the will to change her life for the better. Thanks again so much and I only hope the best for you.