Marriage ultimatum

Wow, wow and triple wow - talk about manipulation and conditional threats.. It appears I sniffed that one out. I'm pretty good at sensing manipulation and the jealousy card is a common trick to use.

Are you comfortable with the decision you made? Since you went to the jeweler - are you having second thoughts? If your answer is "no" then I think it's safe to say, she's a master manipulator and you wouldn't want to be the object of this for the rest of your living days. Good for you in being one step ahead.

I know it will not be easy for me. It is still a loss. A loss of companionship. A loss of having someone to go places with and have dinner with, etc. She knows that I have a deep physical attraction to her and started withholding intimacy awhile back until she had a ring. She knew that I would get frustrated with that but I figured that she was losing out as well because she had a deep physical attraction to me SO IT APPEARED AND SO SHE SAID.

(((swimjim))) - honestly you really deserve better. When a woman withholds sex as a means of punishment and manipulation -this is one of the lowest blows in a relationship. You would end up constantly being at her mercy whenever a problem comes up. You may feel like you're at a loss now, but you would lose more of your self esteem as a man if you stayed with such a game playing woman. Look for an honest and sincere woman who's not into these kind of antics.

I have read books that suggest that if one party really wants to be married and that is their goal and they feel that they are spinning their wheels to get to that goal with someone, then they should make their feelings known and be prepared for the answer. She may be at that point in the relationship, no matter how long you have been together. Granted, it is a threat she made and something to consider on your part as pushing to get her way, but if marriage is her goal and you show no signs of being ready for it then I think it is mature of both of you to agree you have different priorities for your future and try to separate as friends. Some people are happy in relationships for years without marriage, other's are not. This is a fundamental difference for the two of you at this point and one that simply cannot be resolved happily it seems for both parties. I know it hurts terribly for you both but maybe a break will bring one of you around, good luck!

I respect your answer and know she has a right to want to get married HOPEFULLY for the right reasons. What needs to be made clear is that she started pushing for marriage just a few months after we started dating and the first ultimatum came during month five. With numerous ultimatums after that, I am led to feel that she is more interested in just being married rather than loving me and making me happy. She is 50 years old and has never been married but has a 15 year old daughter to consider as well. I have been married before and know how hard it is to compromise in a marriage. I don't enjoy spending time with her anymore because she is so resentful. If marriage is her top priority rather than finding love, then she is going about it all wrong. She could not even get her daughter's father to marry her. I would like to get married again some day. I just want to marry someone who really loves me and not in such a hurry with the obsession of getting married. Being too pushy has pushed me away. It is sad if we really love each other that we can't continue to grow with one another and relax.

Hi SwimJim,

Sorry I haven't replied to this thread in a while. The last post exemplifies the differences in how people view relationships, especially failed ones. Some see it in black and white terms. She wanted x, you wanted y, so you break up. But I know, in your case, that it is not that simple. Some just can't understand how a woman like this affects a man's psyche. If your ex had told you when you first met that she would emotionally blackmail and manipulate you to get you to marry her, you probably would have turned and ran. But the honeymoon phase blinds us to just what these women are all about.

The fact is, if she does this with a life changing event such as marriage, she most likely will use such tactics to get whatever it is she wants in life. She probably has been conditioned since childhood that the only way she can feel accepted and loved is to have those around her agree with her or capitulate to her demands. She has an either/or, all or nothing mentality that forces her to react very negatively when she doesn't get what she wants, like a child who has her doll taken away. You took her doll away, you are a mean, bad person. She must punish you. In essence, she has little control over her emotions and feels that the people in her life are the cause of her happiness or sadness. In order to be happy, she must control those people by either forcing them to do what she wants through manipulation or bullying, or casting them out of her life as bad people. Her ultimatum is simply a defense mechanism meant to preempt a rejection from you. That way she can always be in control and have the power in the relationship that she needs in order to keep from being hurt.
She can't help the way she is. She unfortunately doesn't see how it affects those closest to her.

My ex showed signs of this personality, red flags, early on which I chose to ignore thinking it would get better. It never did. It only got worse. When she didn't get a ring from me by xmas of 09, she punished me by becoming cold and telling me if I wanted to just "date" her, then she would treat me like that and would stop making the effort in our relationship. I was "the boy" and needed to "step up". This treatment culminated on New Year's Eve and I nearly ended things right then and there. But she guilted me into staying. The rest of the weekend she was distant and kept making digs like... "if I only had a boyfriend who could commit..." or "I'd like a house and family someday but that is a pipe dream since my boyfriend won't marry me". This was just another example of her emotional blackmail and manipulation. When over-the-top sweetness with gifts, baking and sex etc... weren't enough after a few months (the carrot), she turned to "the stick". It didn't take a genius to figure out that everything this woman did throughout our relationship was meant to secure what she wanted. She wanted a man to marry her so she could be meet the expectations of her family. It was all about keeping up appearances and not ending up an "old maid". It never had anything to do with me. I was just a stand in.

I am still sad to this day to know she lost out on me. A man who truly understood her and could have loved her like no one else. But I have gotten over her for the most part. I can now fondly remember the good times along with the bad. But I realize she was not capable of appreciating and accepting the kind of genuine love and emotional intimacy I needed. There was nothing I could do to change her. I am a stronger man.

[WOW - run for the hills !!! i am a female and would never dream of doing this , its actually rather rude ! would u have given her ultimatims and how would she have responded ? i think she is controlling and manuplitive and i hope that u tell her that its not on best of luck x

Hi Strongerman. Thank you for all your insight to my dilemma. Your situation is errily similar to mine. When she did not get a ring by Christmas of 2009, she went and priced one out herself and handed me the business card with the price. She told me I had two weeks to decide. I was blindsided. THis happened after dating only five months. She then backed off and we would start enjoying each other again until two months later when she started complaining again. The cycle would go on like this every two to three months with heart aches and breakups and makeups. The emotional merry -go- round was taking a toll on me. She then started withholding intimacy and not seeing me. I need to ask you, how long did you guys date before the ultimatums started. I find it interesting when you pointed out that these women are not really aware of their manipulative tactics. I would spell all this out in her face that she was being controlling and manipulative and it was like it would not sink in with her. She would completely deny that she was doing this. It was so frustrating. How long did your relationship last? I look forward to your response.

Yes, when I read some of your comments, it's like deja vu. I hope this isn't too much information or rambles. I could write a novel.

We were together for 21 months. She told people I was "the one" after about 3 months tops. She wasn't quite as forceful as your ex was as I never exactly got the direct "ultimatum" that you did.. as in propose by a certain date... or else. She wasn't that brave. But I was constantly "reminded" very strongly that she wasn't happy just being my boyfriend for very long. Eventually, it was like a dark cloud over everything we did. She just couldn't relax, trust in me and enjoy "us".

We broke up on our 6 month anniversary when I confronted her about her controlling behavior. I could tell at that time she saw 6 months as "enough time" and was expecting some commitment. Well, living together was a no go, so that leaves only one thing. We ended up getting back together and agreed to "work on things". I later realized she never thought she had anything to work on. It was all my fault. I felt we weren't communicating very well and her response was "I told you quite clearly what I wanted". Anyway, I was planning on moving and agreed that Fall to look for a house with her "for us" as a way of showing my commitment to her in lieu of a ring. I also was using this as a way of testing her level of commitment and trust in me. What is good for the goose.... She agreed to go on a tight budget and save some money. Great. Well, it never really happened. Empty promise. She also went and bought a new car at this time with a hefty loan payment (she had no/bad credit) against my advice. I thought a practical car would suffice. She even refused to tell me the amount of the payments because "we weren't married yet". This was a light bulb moment for me. If she couldn't be open and financially responsible for us, how could I trust her to be the partner I needed in a future wife? As it turned out, the financing fell through and I chose not to seek out other options. I guess you could say I dodged a bullet. This took us to Christmas of 2009 (10 mos). My misgivings about her remained. The house was no longer in the picture and she was really expecting a proposal. What made it worse was that my nephew chose to propose to his girlfriend at that time. You can imagine my ex's reaction to that. She was miserable and wanted me to be miserable too. As I recounted earlier, my new years that year was cold to say the least as she pulled out all the stops to punish me for her disastrous x-mas and my refusal to commit. We never even had sex that weekend... shiver. Poor girl, almost 1 year and no ring on her finger. Imagine that!!

We also nearly broke up on a couple of other occasions. I rode that "merry-go-round" too, lol. But she would always guilt trip me into staying. When I tried to discuss my issues with her, she would get very defensive and deflect the blame onto me. Very frustrating as you said. She was very good at overreacting and bullying people to get what she wanted. That was the only way she knew how to respond to people who stood up to her or even dared to disagree with her. She was estranged with her one sister since their teen years and was constantly in conflict with someone in her life. It was as if she thrived off it. Most people would relent rather than deal with her. Those who didn't were discarded. But she ran into one tough customer in me. Because I wasn't: 1. going to give up on her easily and 2. just roll over and appease her bad behavior and treatment of me. My nature is to give people the benefit of the doubt and 2nd and even 3rd chances. I am a "nice guy". Maybe too nice for my own good. But I wasn't going to give her even one chance at marriage if I wasn't completely certain she was the kind of person I could make that lifelong commitment to. She always told me that if I truly loved her, that it shouldn't be that hard. Her dad supposedly knew her mom was the one after a week. Her brother in law and sister were another example of hers. She knew I was the one for her and that is all that mattered. I just couldn't get her to understand what I needed to see in her. I realize she was under the gun to start a family at her age and her family was a source of real or imagined pressure. But there was no excuse for the way she acted and treated me. Of course, she believes wholeheartedly that I screwed her over and wasted her time. At least that is what she'd tell anyone willing to listen. But I know deep down inside, she knows her behavior is creating the heartache and chaos she has experienced in her relationships. It is like alcoholism in that respect. Only worse. An alcoholic can see what the enemy is... alcohol. But people like my ex cannot see or admit that their worst enemy is themselves. I feel sorry for her and wish I could have brought out the great person I know she deserves to be. She could be so sweet. Or was it just manipulation? Maybe she has already met some poor schlub who is willing to put up with her and give her what she wants.

The saddest part with women like this is that there is no closure. They simply aren't capable of giving that. You can never get them to understand where you are coming from. There simply is no other recourse but to leave them. You loved them and wanted so much more. That is why it is so difficult to get over them.

Hi strongerman. I want to give you my email address. I don't know if this site will prohibit me from sharing priveleged information. The moderator might delete it. If we lived close by each other, we can spend hours comparing notes. My relationship has lasted 23 months and is at the moment non existent. She has sent me emails recently trying to get some kind of reaction from me. When I read your comments, chills go up my spine because our situations are almost identical. I can tell that you have a good head on your shoulders because of your insight into our situations. My problem right now is that I don't know if I have the strength to stay away if and/or when she comes crawling back. She has used every trick in the book to get me to the altar. She is also under the gun from her parents to get married and find her daughter a daddy. What is ironic is that if she would have never mentioned marriage and showed more strength and independence and genuine love for me rather than being pushy and desperate, I might very well have proposed by now. A few months back, she and I came across an old friend of mine. He introduced us to his new bride. I knew at that point I was in trouble and she was going to PUNISH me. Just like you, her brother married his wife after dating only two months. Her parents got married after dating only three months. Everyone in her family, except one sister who she does not speak to, is married and she does not want to be the "old maid". Common sense tells me that if you are self confident, self reliant, and genuinely portray a sense of independence and balance that with being humble,compassionate, and loving, good things (Like marriage) would naturally happen. Right now, she is like that kid that got her doll taken away and I am the bad boy. Get this, her mother, who I have never met because she lives in California, called me up on the phone after eight months of dating, and chewed me out for leading her on. Right away, I'm thinking, do I want her as a mother in law? Can I ask you strongerman, do you believe that if you get ultimatums before marriage, are the chances great that you will be given ultimatums after marriage i.e. new car, house, or else etc? You have been very helpful. I will have to reread your comments when I have moments of wanting to give in or take her back. Does anyone know if I can share my email address to you on this site?

Hi Swimjim,

Don't have much time to reply but I'm sure we could share email addresses somehow or use the private messaging capability. I know how hard it can be when still in contact with them. They have such a power over us to make us feel we are the problem, not them. Then we feel guilty that we didn't give them enough of a chance. I found it helpful to write a list of all the bad things they said or did in the relationship and tape it up where you can read it. It will remind you why you need to remain tough and not forget about your needs. To answer your question: my feeling is that women like this do not listen to anyone. They feel entitled. They are never wrong. They are always the victim. They are going to do what they want and get what they want whether you agree or not. So, yes, they will make ultimatums like this for other things and will make you pay if you dare to deny them what they "rightfully deserve". Eventually they will totally discard you when they find someone else who can fulfill their needs or realize that you will not bend. It sounds like your ex takes after her mother. Wow

Oops... Just to re-phrase that... I didn't have much time to reply when making that last post. I certainly have time and will reply to future emails. Don't know if I gave the wrong impression with that.

If this charade is how she shows love I'd hate to see how she treats her enemies!

Thank you strongerman. Will the moderator delete this message if I reveal my email address? I get concerned that other viewers on this site might get burned out reading all my updates. She is starting to weaken again. I have a feeling that she wants to start another cycle. She has left me messages over the weekend asking how I am doing. I did not respond. My strength will be tested if she comes to my house unexpectedly and uses the seductive approach.

swimjim - if you want to communicate by email with StrongerMan - instead of putting your email here...you can go to your profile and click 'edit options' - there's a box there that gives the option of receiving emails from other members. Just so you know others would be able to see your email if you respond back. Or you can just PM any member or PM your email address, if you wish the more private approach.

Sorry this situation is still tugging at your heart strings. I'm afraid you'll just end up in the same situation if you get back in again. I hope she takes this as a learning experience, not to give ultimatums unless you're prepared for the opposite answer. Good luck.

Thank you Lynn for your help and response. I will do what you suggested. I will also remain strong.

Strongerman, check your name on the members list. I left you my email address.