[Ygrec23]

Yeah, it's true. She does. She's only five foot tall. Weighs in at around 130. Is an old lady and not terribly strong. But by God she lets me have it when she gets angry, which isn't all that infrequently.

Me, I'm normal. About six foot, 180 pounds. Average strength. If I ever had hit her I'd have hurt her, so I never have.

When she hits me (sometimes over and over and over) it really doesn't hurt, but it's saddening. Makes me feel bad.

We're simply not the kind of people who get the authorities involved in such things. Never have, never will.

But I'd really like to break her of the habit. It's just embarassing. And sad.

She hits me and wonders out loud why she married me. Hits me in anger and spite. We've been together 42 years.

No, I'm no ladies' dream. All I am is a guy who earned a decent living for a good while and then didn't. And she still comes from the mindset that men make the money and women cook and keep house. Really. It may well be hard to believe in these present days, but it's true.

So we live in the past. And she hits me for what she's missed, what she didn't have and never got. God bless us all.

[AAAAA]

I am so sorry. Does she ever express regret for her behavior or does she remain resentful? It sounds like she's never learned that she is responsible for her own happiness.

[cin1]

Originally Posted by Ygrec23

Yeah, it's true. She does. She's only five foot tall. Weighs in at around 130. Is an old lady and not terribly strong. But by God she lets me have it when she gets angry, which isn't all that infrequently.

Me, I'm normal. About six foot, 180 pounds. Average strength. If I ever had hit her I'd have hurt her, so I never have.

When she hits me (sometimes over and over and over) it really doesn't hurt, but it's saddening. Makes me feel bad.

We're simply not the kind of people who get the authorities involved in such things. Never have, never will.

But I'd really like to break her of the habit. It's just embarassing. And sad.

She hits me and wonders out loud why she married me. Hits me in anger and spite. We've been together 42 years.

No, I'm no ladies' dream. All I am is a guy who earned a decent living for a good while and then didn't. And she still comes from the mindset that men make the money and women cook and keep house. Really. It may well be hard to believe in these present days, but it's true.

So we live in the past. And she hits me for what she's missed, what she didn't have and never got. God bless us all.

i know abuse goes two ways. i have never physically hit my H, and he hasn't hit me either. But i have said cruel things, and he has said things that maybe i misunderstood. but now that i think back on those times when i said ugly things, almost all the times he was just quiet and walked away. that would make me angrier, and i would bang pots and pans, and he ignored it, which angered me more. But now it saddens me that i was abusive, and he took it without saying a word., that is sad.

[purple_fins]

I'm sorry too.
I think she is being disrespectful, no matter if it causes you physical pain-- it's still a hit and that is violence and violence has no place in a loving relationship.
Have you told her that her hitting makes you sad and it's embarrassing?
Maybe she doesn't realize that it's wrong since she is so much smaller than you-- you think?

I hope you get the kudos and love from her that you thirst for.

"communication road" is often the road to venture down.

best to you

fins

[lynn P.]

Oh wow ((Ygrec23)) - I'm so sorry this is happening and its takes courage for a man to admit this is happening. Has she always done this or is this something that came later in life. I think its wrong for anyone to hit someone and the way they show in movies women slapping men across the face is wrong - abuse is abuse.

I think she needs to get anger management counseling. What would she do if you left? I remember in another thread you mentioned something about her having early Alzheimer disease. I will say exactly what i would say to a woman - that you shouldn't take this.

[likewater]

Oh. Did she hit before the Alheimer' s? I ask because my Grandpa would kick and hit when he got Alzheimer' s . Usually when he was xonfused and i wasn' t doing what he wanted. Unfortunately, we weren' t able to care for him at home any more. It broke my heart. I was sooo darn close to my Grandpa. I still visited him everyday while working and carimg for my Grandma too.

Anyway, everybody' s situation is different. No one deserves abuse. I' m so sorry for the pathos of this situation.

[Ygrec23]

Originally Posted by lynn P.

Oh wow ((Ygrec23)) - I'm so sorry this is happening and its takes courage for a man to admit this is happening. Has she always done this or is this something that came later in life. I think its wrong for anyone to hit someone and the way they show in movies women slapping men across the face is wrong - abuse is abuse.

I think she needs to get anger management counseling. What would she do if you left? I remember in another thread you mentioned something about her having early Alzheimer disease. I will say exactly what i would say to a woman - that you shouldn't take this.

She does this when she's had more alcohol than she should. She had no reason to do it in the past because we always had comfortable money and could do and buy the things we wanted and needed. It's really only been since the economy got bad in 2008 that this has developed.

As for leaving, that won't happen. We're too old, have too little money to run two households and have been married too long. And yes, her neurologist has prescribed Namenda and Aricept for her. But I'll tell you frankly I do not see any symptoms in her. She has mild memory difficulties finding certain words, but keep in mind that English is her second language. I would bet money that the neurologist just wants her to help him get on to the Medicare gravy train, which means she may have a problem and then she may not.

She does have a T and a pdoc. Since she once showed up at a session drunk they've really been down on her drinking, insisting that she be liquor-free, but she hasn't done that. She tells them she has and then comes home and drinks.

It just makes me sad, is all. I think you have to be pretty low to engage in physical violence as a means of self-expression. And then to hit me because I'm not making enough money right now (which is what it is), well, she's not exactly living up to my rather idealized picture of her. Take care!

[Ygrec23]

Originally Posted by likewater

Oh. Did she hit before the Alheimer' s? I ask because my Grandpa would kick and hit when he got Alzheimer' s . Usually when he was xonfused and i wasn' t doing what he wanted. Unfortunately, we weren' t able to care for him at home any more. It broke my heart. I was sooo darn close to my Grandpa. I still visited him everyday while working and carimg for my Grandma too. Anyway, everybody' s situation is different. No one deserves abuse. I' m so sorry for the pathos of this situation.

I'll tell you, likewater, I don't know whether she has Alzheimer's or not. Her neurologist is having her take the same pills that Alzheimer's people take. But I haven't had a sit-down, heart-to-heart chat with him yet. I do wonder if he's just using her to milk the Medicare gravy train. I don't see any of the grosser symptoms of Alzheimer's in her. Thanks for your response. Take care!

[Leed]

It sounds like your wife has a drinking problem. It's not how MUCH you drink, but what it does to you WHEN you drink.

Have you told her how her abuse makes you feel? Tell her when she's sober -- telling her at the time she does it wouldn't make sense, cause she might not remember it anyway if she's drinking at the time.

You might want to attend some Al-Anon meetings -- these are for people who have family members/friends who have drinking problems. These meetings can help you learn to cope & better able you to handle her.

I'm so sorry you're going thru this. Please take care of YOU -- and God bless. Hugs, Lee

[missbelle]

It is still never too late to start over unless you feel this is your fate. Then you have the problem right? Never to late for you to make a choice not to live this way no matter how old you are! You still have the chance and the opportunity to live your days out with serenity!
Hugs;

[likewater]

I' m so sorry. Only you can decide what you are willing to put up with, but you dont deserve to be hit. It doesn' t matter why she is hitting you.

Ygrec,I had no idea this was happening in your life.Did she assault you b4 she began to utilize the alzheimer related meds?

http://www.alz.org/alzheimers_diseas...alzheimers.asp

I have known men who are/were abused.This is a very real issue that often doesn't get the attention or regard it deserves.It is AS wrong to hit a man as it is to hit a woman.

I have in the past,had situations where my son stole from my house,or husband beat my sons or animals,and though I did not want the focus on my household from neighbors,I felt that if I accepted these things,then I was to remain a victim,and that those who suffered under the abuse would remain a victim,and that it was my right/responsibility to show them that w/o a doubt,the law stood against this abuse,and there'd be consequences.

I would seriously suggest that you call the PD,in private,and ask them if they would have a talk w/ her.Telling her what the potential consequences are for these behaviors,and tell her you have decided to take a stand.

Even destroying property in the house is grounds for domestic violence.I imagine you love her,I know that being with someone that long creates very mixed feelings when things fall to bits,I hear you when you say that she "may" have alzheimers.

But,the 'place' that her abuse is coming from is not random.It is calculated.It is a very selfish place inside her,and is as evolved as when a child doesn't get 'that toy',not as if she can't function intellectually properly,and you do not deserve this.

The only way this is going to stop is if she receives the proper consequences,which is a visit from p.d.

I think if you told her that 'From this point,if/when you lay your hands on me or destroy things in the house these are the consequences...." in front of an officer,then it will be her choice when the consequences occur.

I am so sorry that you are under this emotional/physical duress Ygrec,you don't deserve it,no one does.Physical violence is against the law,and there are other behavioral choices she can make.

You know,if they arrested her,it'd be an almost 'right away' release,and a visit in court where a judge could demand she receive counseling or other intervention.

[lynn P.]

Thanks for the reply Ygrec. I think the main problem is alcohol and your wife needs to get into a treatment program. I agree with Leed who mentioned AA meetings and wolfsong who suggested calling the police on her. I bet she would stop if she knew there were repercussions for hitting you. The alcohol is making this behavior worse and alcohol abuse can cause premature dementia - my brother who ended his life was diagnosed with alcohol induced dementia. If I were you, I would refuse to keep alcohol in the house and this would be more money in your pocket. She needs to cut it out completely. We've been having severe financial troubles too but I don't go around hitting my partner. Tell her you'll call the police if she touches you aggressively again.

[Ygrec23]

Originally Posted by missbelle

It is still never too late to start over unless you feel this is your fate. Then you have the problem right? Never to late for you to make a choice not to live this way no matter how old you are! You still have the chance and the opportunity to live your days out with serenity!
Hugs;

If by "start over" you mean divorce, missbelle, well, I just wouldn't be able to do that. It's not to me a question of my "fate," I love this woman very much and care very much how she feels and what happens to her. She has no family of her own. She has no money of her own other than the tiny Social Security she gets every month.

I knew her folks very well. They were lovely people. And in a sense, maybe out loud, maybe without saying, I promised her mother that I'd take care of her. And considering my feelings toward my mother-in-law (very positive indeed), I don't think I could go back on that.

And she does need care. She's at that stage in life when you're in the process of losing the adult ability to take care of yourself. No. I just couldn't cut her loose. Out of the question. However much she hits me. Keep in mind that even doing her worst she doesn't hurt me. It's just sad.

Take care!

[Ygrec23]

Thank you so much, wolfsong, for devoting so much thought and attention just to my problem! I read your post seriously, I take your post seriously, and I'll respond to each of your points in turn. But please let me make something clear first. You and others may well disagree, but I'm convinced there's a big difference between a man beating a woman and a woman beating a man. Not very 21st Century, right? Well, I'm an old guy and perhaps that explains it. But I think there's reason and logic there too.

The entire human race, throughout its history, is a chronicle of man's oppression of woman. Physical, moral, intellectual, political, whatever, men have traditionally used every single means at their disposal to control, harass, overpower, keep down and crush women. You know this. Everyone knows this. And this ain't history! We all know well it's STILL going on.

So when a man beats a woman, anywhere in the world including here, she's part of an ongoing world-wide crusade for the treatment of women as full human beings with full human rights. A woman's attack on a man simply does not have that kind of historical, global resonance. A beaten woman must take into account not only her own injuries, but also the fact that she's part of a huge group that still has a very serious point to make. And by calling the cops she fulfills her responsibilities to all the other women in the world.

That's just not true when a woman hits a man, particularly if, as here, through lack of upper body strength, she simply can't hit hard enough to hurt him. It's an unpleasant and depressing situation, yes. But calling in the cops in such a situation is just not part of my self-definition. Talk to her T? Yes. Talk to her Pdoc? Yes. Even talk to her neurologist? Yes. But cops, no. I have no political points to make. I want to help this lady, not make her life miserable.

Ygrec,I had no idea this was happening in your life.Did she assault you b4 she began to utilize the alzheimer related meds?

All I can say is it doesn't go back very far, and I can't really remember what came first, the meds or the hitting.

http://www.alz.org/alzheimers_diseas...alzheimers.asp

I have known men who are/were abused.This is a very real issue that often doesn't get the attention or regard it deserves.It is AS wrong to hit a man as it is to hit a woman.

From a purely moral point of view I agree with you, neither is better or worse than the other. There are just other considerations to keep in mind, as I've outlined above.

I have in the past,had situations where my son stole from my house,or husband beat my sons or animals,and though I did not want the focus on my household from neighbors,I felt that if I accepted these things,then I was to remain a victim,and that those who suffered under the abuse would remain a victim,and that it was my right/responsibility to show them that w/o a doubt,the law stood against this abuse,and there'd be consequences.

Male violence, if unmet with a short, sharp shock, such as being arrested, can easily go on and increase over time. The police, who are in a sense the embodiment of official, approved male violence, are more appropriate, I think, when men are doing what they shouldn't. Though I have to say that if such situations happened to me I'd first try to deal with them in other ways. I'm not a particular fan of the law enforcement establishment.

I would seriously suggest that you call the PD,in private,and ask them if they would have a talk w/ her.Telling her what the potential consequences are for these behaviors,and tell her you have decided to take a stand.

I think that would be overkill. In my (really long) experience, if you take people whose behavior you'd like to change and try to obtain it through overwhelmingly embarassing and shaming means, it won't work. No. You must realize and accept that even if you're angry at the person and want them to suffer in some manner, then your own feelings will either destroy the behavioral change you're seeking or very badly inhibit it. All I'd like her to do is stop it. I have no need to punish her at all. And I think talking to her T and Pdoc and even neurologist will entirely solve the problem. I haven't yet done those things.

But,the 'place' that her abuse is coming from is not random.It is calculated.It is a very selfish place inside her,and is as evolved as when a child doesn't get 'that toy',not as if she can't function intellectually properly,and you do not deserve this.

I DO think that she may be getting a little childish. And when that happens there's nothing you can do. You can't stop that. That's brain deterioration. As for "calculation," well, it seems to me to be the very opposite of calculation. She's more overwhelmed by her emotions now, a lot more, than forty years ago. I feel terribly sorry for her. And I love her.

Sorry hon,I think you make very good points,and I understand what you are saying.I don't know how to help,but,I sure do wish I did.

[likewater]

Ygrec, i dont really look at gender issues the same. I was horribly abused by my mom and she was more brutal than any man. I look at people as human beings. I'm not saying call cops on your wife if youre not comfortable, but dont think you are suffering lesd necause of your wife' s body strength or youre a man. Its demeaning and sad to be mistreated. And you are only being kind.

[Caretaker Leo]

ygrec,
Just for some background - I want to let you know that my husband was physically abused by his first wife. It was many years ago now and in their case, it was a result of her drug use. He left for a work seminar and returned to find that she had taken the children and burned all of his belongings. His belongings were still smoldering when he came home. Abuse is not just a male or female issue.

Just a thought as it is so obvious that you love your wife dearly and do want to help her. Have you tried pulling her into a hug when she starts hitting you? I can sense that she feels let down because you are no longer in the position of being the provider. Though through no fault of your own, I suspect she is feeling that her life is turned upside down and no longer matches what she expected life to be. After 42 years of marriage with certain expectations and lifestyle, this has to be painful for both of you. But for someone of your wife's age, perhaps it is even more devastating? After all, think of what happened in our country during all of that time and how it affected people's way of life, expectations and finances...

Again, don't know if it will work, but maybe, just maybe pulling her into a hug that lets her know you are in pain as well could be a healthy move?

Wishing the best.

[TerryL]

Is there anything that makes your wife happy?

Originally Posted by Ygrec23

You and others may well disagree, but I'm convinced there's a big difference between a man beating a woman and a woman beating a man. Not very 21st Century, right? Well, I'm an old guy and perhaps that explains it. But I think there's reason and logic there too.

The entire human race, throughout its history, is a chronicle of man's oppression of woman. Physical, moral, intellectual, political, whatever, men have traditionally used every single means at their disposal to control, harass, overpower, keep down and crush women. You know this. Everyone knows this. And this ain't history! We all know well it's STILL going on.

So when a man beats a woman, anywhere in the world including here, she's part of an ongoing world-wide crusade for the treatment of women as full human beings with full human rights. A woman's attack on a man simply does not have that kind of historical, global resonance. A beaten woman must take into account not only her own injuries, but also the fact that she's part of a huge group that still has a very serious point to make. And by calling the cops she fulfills her responsibilities to all the other women in the world.

That's just not true when a woman hits a man, particularly if, as here, through lack of upper body strength, she simply can't hit hard enough to hurt him. It's an unpleasant and depressing situation, yes.

Well, as someone who has worked in domestic violence for 20 years, I'd say you are very 21st century. Your reason and logic, including your political analysis, are spot on. While I have worked with male victims over the years and I have read some of the professional literature and media accounts that attempt to equalize women's violence against men to being "the same" as men's violence against women, I do come down on the political side that women's violence towards men (as a whole) is not the problem that men's violence towards women is. This is especially true when you look at "hard" data such as domestic homicides, where the number of women killed by men greatly exceeds the number of men killed by women. And the data diverge even more strongly when you look at the stats of who claims self defense as a reason for the killing.

None of this "big picture" stuff is meant to invalidate your experience of being abused, however. You do deserve help and support, and feeling depressed and sad about how your wife treats you is a legitimate problem. It was brave of you to raise it here.

What you don't say that women victims of domestic violence typically feel include that you are afraid for your life, that she is using abuse to control you in some or nearly all ways, that the violence is escalating, and that the hitting is only one of the things she does that makes you feel sad and depressed. On that last point, verbal, emotional, psychological, and sexual violence are often used as tools to reinforce physical attacks. And that physical violence can be more than just hitting, from driving recklessly to threats or use of weapons. My concern for you is that some of these things that you haven't said might actually be the case.

I completely understand your feelings about getting the police and courts involved, and I agree with you that this would be unlikely to be effective. But what police and court intervention does is hold the abuser accountable for her actions. This accountability is what has been shown, in many research studies over the years, to reduce or even stop future violence.

So, outside of formal intervention, what can you do to hold her accountable? One thing you might consider is a domestic violence abuser counseling program. If you live in a large-ish community (my college town of about 100,000 people has groups, the preferred treatment for abusers, that are separated into men and women's groups). Many of the people who go to these groups are court referred, but they take self referrals to (they are just not used to seeing them regularly). One way to find these groups is to call your local domestic violence shelter (and you would, by the way, be eligible for free services from the shelter, they have counseling and support and other non-residential services that may help you). I would encourage you to call the hotline of your local shelter (you can do this anonymously, although they may ask you for some demographic information that is required by their grant funders) and see what advice they might have for you.

Otherwise, I wonder if it might help for you to begin conversations with her (if you haven't already) that speaks to her accountability for her behavior. I get the sense from your post, I may be wrong, that you don't believe that she is incapable of controlling her behavior because of Alzheimer's or medication or even drinking. That she is choosing, as most abusers to, to hit you because she is distressed over your financial situation and blames you for it. Because of her beliefs about the value of men (to earn money), she may feel that you are less worthy now than you used to me, so she thinks it's okay to hit you. If she is choosing to hit, she can choose to stop. She just needs a reason to.

You may have already done this, but having conversations with her about how it is not okay for her to use you as a punching bag, that her abuse makes you feel sad and depressed, can hold her emotionally accountable. When she starts hitting, you can also repeat these messages. Can you tell her to stop when she starts? Are you able to physically get away from her at these times? Because she is weak, can you (gently) hold her hands and tell her to stop? You don't just have to stand there and take it, you can defend yourself without hurting her. If you've had conversations with her where she understands the impact of her abuse on you and wants to stop for your sake, this may help her.

You know it's not right, that she treats you like this. I am very glad that you reached out for help. I wish you the best,

Anne

[lynn P.]

Ygrec - I see from your posts in this thread you're a good man. I agree woman on man violence isn't seen the same but some women can do damage. One thing I would be concerned about is - what if you became ill and wheelchair bound but still well enough to be at home - I would worry you would really be at a disadvantage for abuse.

Speak to her Pdoc and be honest that she loses control and hits which is spurred by the alcohol. I think the alcohol is the main problem here and she needs to get into a treatment program. She also needs to realize hitting doesn't solve anything. You can also at least hold her arms so she can't hit you.

[unaluna]

You might also want to consider that no one knows what the future holds; she may outlive you, so the kindest thing you may do for her now while she still has her senses is to break her of this habit, so to speak. She doesn't need to go into a nursing home and start assaulting the staff - she will suffer worse consequences then, won't she? So if you can possibly help her get these issues under control, if not for your sake, then for hers.

[Ygrec23]

Originally Posted by hankster

You might also want to consider that no one knows what the future holds; she may outlive you, so the kindest thing you may do for her now while she still has her senses is to break her of this habit, so to speak. She doesn't need to go into a nursing home and start assaulting the staff - she will suffer worse consequences then, won't she? So if you can possibly help her get these issues under control, if not for your sake, then for hers.

Oh, Hankster, thanks for your thoughts. I know her T, I know her Pdoc, I know her neurologist. And I'm SURE that together, collectively, they can get to her and set things right. She has great faith in all of them. What they say counts. It'll work. Take care!

[carla37]

this is a hard subject and i admire your bravey, i think this needs to come out of the closet,, sometimes we get an impression men are suppose to be made of steel , so its harder for men to come to this subect. how do i answer this,,,,, i no nothing about it,, so great plcae to come, u have a supporter

[phoenix7]

(((((Ygrec23)))))

i am sorr this is happening to you - there have been some very good responces here - one i dont thinki saw a response to was drawing her into a hug when she attacks you - pin her arms and hold her till the violence subsides.

Talking when she's sober is also a good idea, does she remember she does these things? Is she ok the rest of the time - I wish i was there to give you a hug you are a really nice guy and there arnt many left lol but you DONT deserve to be hit - whether she hurts you or not - it is disrespectful and hurtful and sad ....

Communicate about this if you can

Im wondering what culture she comes from? would this have happened wiht her parents do you think? a learned response?

to me and Just my opinion, it seems like frustration to me - when you drink barriers of self control are lowered and sometimes frustration comes to the front - there is a sound of a child in there - sigh I recognise the child in me that WANTS things - and gets angry when they cant get them (for me its getting past this stupid PTSD crap lol ) for her it sounds like the role models have changed and she doesnt know what to make of them now - again just my opinion.

I dont know much about Alzheimers meds - but any meds is not good wiht alcohol - does her Neuro knowshe is using alcohol and I say using cos it sounds like she is using it as a drug not as a relaxant..... maybe im wrong....

Have you tried shouting really loud STOP! it may shock her into stopping -

agian just a thought

if it is the alzheimers a brain scan will prove it - if she has had one ask to see it - there will be definitive proof there

there are meds for aggression that are actually for other things - that we use in brain injury - that may help - if the aggression is due to the illness - speak to the neurologist sooner rather than later my friend - you said that with men it can escalate - it can also escalate wiht women - and she needs to know this is not acceptable

you have said you love her and wont leave her - that is wonderful - but YOU have the right to not be abused my friend and this is abuse - dont doubt it - can yu substitute what she drinks for a non alcoholic equivelant? non alcoholic wine looks and smells and tastes like the real stuff but doesnt have the alcohol in - just an example - mayb add water to her drinks - I have doen that with my sister - or thrown half her glass away - she is usually too drunk to realise anyway -or tipsy....

talkingto her pdoc andT sounds good - are they in touch wiht her neurologist? it would be good if they were all in the loop.

please let us know how you are going - and try the hug thing it sounded good.

for me where i work - we lower our tone - move out of swing range - can you do that? keep out of range? what would she do then? hold her at arms length? and we try to distract them wiht somthing they like - a family picture - a hobby - sounds ridiculous when someone at my work is smashing things to start saying hey what about the football game on saturday - but it works a lot of the time and the picture is good - just no glass frames ok - maybe a pic of her mum and dad if you have one and she was happy then

what does make her happy ?

gives you a big hug cos ..well just cos you are you