[Myzen]

Hi folks,

I have been reminding myself recently that the world is not a support forum.

We often get kicked around in the world, maybe because that's just how it is, and there is no responsibility upon other's to help us out if they don't want to. Why should there be?

Yet, I am still being amazed by the number of people who are stuck in the world, and yet too proud to seek help in any formal way, even anonymously on the net. I was recently approached by an acquaintance who wanted to talk about relationship difficulties, and over a period this developed into regular weekly meetings.

Suddenly I realised that my acquaintance was using the meetings to unburden himself, but not wanting to listening to anything much I was saying. I also noticed that he stayed with me, in a bar or a coffee shop, for about an hour and then he pushed off.

I'm not the brightest cookie in the jar, but I started to realise that weekly meetings, of about an hour, talking solely about problems is beginning to sound like - Counselling!

Yes, I had done it again, and fallen into a pattern of support. A couple of weeks ago he uttered the fateful words ' I'm afraid of being alone; I only have xxxx (his girfriend) and you'.
I asked myself the question, 'In what sense does he have me?' Well, I couldn't answer. We are not long term friends,
just a couple of people who met up in a writer's group a while ago. How had the relationship become set so quickly? Obviously I had been giving out the vibes again.

This time, I made some excuses about being busy, cooled it a bit with him, and suggested some writing groups that he might like to go along to. He was a little disappointed, but I was relieved. I didn't suggest that he try some real counselling, as I could sense his pride and prickliness about this and I didn't want to go any deeper in that area.

In my experience, relationships which get into dependency so quickly are almost always doomed to fail. My (few) good long term friendships follow the Aristotelian pattern of equality and self reliance, with no emotional pressures.

Yet, I am constantly meeting people who seem to have lost their way pretty badly.

I guess my questions are - What is it that holds people back from getting some proper help when things get rough emotionally? Is it shame that they are not coping? It seems so desperate to try to hit on an acquaintance to carry the load, and yet I see it happening all the time.

I'll bet that if I had told my acquaintance that I was a professional therapist and offered him some sessions he would have run a mile; and yet he still wanted to give me his stuff informally. It beats me. What is that about?

Cheers, M-puzzled

PS - More relevant to me - why am I still in this pattern?

PPS - Rereading my post it sounds a bit selfish. I didn't mean it like that.

for as many people there are in the world there are reasons why some of those people don't get help. Some of those reasons are -

lack of money to pay for it.

Don't air laundry in public type raising and family values.

the abused children taught to "keep their mouths shut or else" grow up to be adults who live in fear of the "or else" should they try to get help.

Societys views that any one who needs a therapy professional is crazy so they don't want to be thought of as crazy.

mass media's special FX and overdramatized portrayal of therapy and various disorders sometimes scares them.

Personal experience of getting help and ending up locked in some mental health unit so the person avoids anything that will result in that happening again.

Some of the people who don't get help do not realize they have a problem - in the psychological field there is a saying - The insane think they are just fine and the sane think they are in sane or going insane - this is because with some disorders they have always been that way so they think that way is completely normal and think everyone is like this until they are told otherwise.

[Myzen]

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myself said:
Some of the people who don't get help do not realize they have a problem - in the psychological field there is a saying - The insane think they are just fine and the sane think they are in sane or going insane - this is because with some disorders they have always been that way so they think that way is completely normal and think everyone is like this until they are told otherwise.

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Hi Myself,

I agree with you. I think this is why I was very tactful with my acquaintance.

On this point; for years I thought that happiness was about clinging onto someone else. It took a long time to lose that view of 'normality'. Maybe that's why I notice the phenomena these days.

Thanks, M

For myself alone, I do not open easilly so I will surely not go to people to empty what I have inside or get a shoulder to cry on. I was just raised that way. The "Do not say".

For going to a therapist, first of all, I don't have money, second, I did go to one for about a month and it turns out she almost had to get out the words out from my mouth. Then she was pushing me to fast. Not a good experience for me and neither for her. I wasn't a good patient. Must have been awful for her.

By my experience of life I have seen people that I knew, that I have went to school with, grow up with, killed themselves because nobody would listen. Nobody was there for them, nobody had time. Also some of them were ashame to say.

I have helped people along my way and I would do it again because I know how much it hurts to not be able to say.

But Myzen, I really do understand what you are saying. You cannot be there for everybody, you can only guide them and by guiding them, it shows you care.

[Merlin]

I'm not sure whether this is appropriate or not, but maybe part of the trick is to not interact with people, other than acquaintances, in only one format. Not that I am saying that you should do everything with every friend (close or otherwise) but to do more than just than just one thing, like coffee with the man you talked about. If you invited him to go bowling or play mini-golf (maybe those are cheesy examples, but they're fun) then you'd be interacting with him in a different way, because the activity would necessitate it. Maybe this will help or maybe it wont, but I wish you luck in finding mutually beneficial relationships.

Myzen, I think I might not have read your post enough carefully before replying.

Do you mean it is ok to help people sometime but it would be also nice just to talk with someone about this and that? Not always with people who takes you for a therapist?

If it is this what you mean, I am completally out of line here because yes, it is nice sometime just to talk about anything and uplifting subjets so we can keep on going in a positive way also. It is good to meet people that is willing, as you are, to share but share alike. It is also nice to feel that people are not taking advantage of you but are just enjoying your company.

I'm sorry if I have reply the wrong thing!

......if the world is not a support forum???????????............if we are not responsible for each other??????????...........i truly can understand your reluctance to get seriously involved in a relationship that is so one sided....but why do you fall into this pattern with people???????...because you are a good, sensitive , loving individual..........i guess what i would hope is that we all give something of ourselves to others when they are obviously so needy.........not everything and not all the time.......this would be detrimental to ourselves....but i can think of times in my life when i just needed to be heard.....and if that dear person that was listening to me had shunned me......i'm not sure where i would be today......and as timo said......what if we were the one who listened and prevented the loss of anothers life?.......myzen.....i truly understand your perspective.but for me the world IS a support forum.......

[jmo531]

Myzen,

In no way are you being selfish here, just looking out for yourself and there is nothing wrong with that.

I think that most people who fail to seek treatment, for whatever is bothering them, dont because they are embarressed, ashamed, scared or beleive that it isnt anything more then stress and/or they can handle it themselves. Lots a reasons I suppose.

I can identify with the last reason though, thinking I can handle everything myself. I used to think I had too because I appeared to everyone to be so "strong" that I couldnt show any emotion or ask for help. Before I knew it, it was too late. I had fallen into a deep depression that no one could help me out of. It wasnt until then that I got up the nerve to tell my closest friends and family that I wasnt as strong as they all thought I was and I couldnt do everything. I needed their help and support to see me through this. To my surprise, they were all very supportive and understanding. Even my best friend would research depression, anxiety and OCD and ask me questions and even offer information that she had learned.

I guess people are afraid of others and the reaction they may receive. For me, I had gotten to the point where I didnt care anymore. Keeping up appearances was the last thing on my mind.

Because you have been through depression and still struggle with anxiety perhaps you put off a vibe of understanding and compassion where people feel comfortable talking and confiding in you. I think this must add to your anxiety. I know it would for me.

Im rambling again. I always seem to ramble in your posts and I am not even sure I have answered your questions

Thinking of you Myzen. I am always here for you.


Huggles!!!!!

Jen

[rebecca8]

You don't sound selfish. You just seem to be pondering. I get it, don't worry. Anyway, I had to laugh when you said you had been giving out the vibes again. What is it with those vibes? Are they involuntary? What the heck? Well, I know what you mean about when people want to tell you their problems, but don't want to seek out real therapy. You really want them to make an effort for themselves, but instead it's like they're transferring their worries over to you. That energy sticks with you for awhile too. You asked what it was that holds people back from getting proper help. Perhaps you are their quick fix. They're not ready for any real work. I don't know about you, but I think I let people do that to me sometimes because when I was growing up, my mother ridiculed me a lot, saying things like ,"You don't care about me, all you care about is yourself." I, too, am always worried about people thinking I'm selfish now because of that. Maybe, you are afraid that other people will accuse you of not caring about them? But, really, who comes first? In my opinion, it's the least selfish thing to do.....to take care of yourself first. Because then, you don't burden anybody else in the long run. Ah, I can't say it right. You seem like a good writer, maybe you can swirl it in your brain some more, and put it into better words. Hehe : )Well, take care. Hope I didn't confuse you more.

[Myzen]

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jmo531 said:
Because you have been through depression and still struggle with anxiety perhaps you put off a vibe of understanding and compassion where people feel comfortable talking and confiding in you. I think this must add to your anxiety. I know it would for me.
Jen

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Jen,

Far from rambling, you hit my worry squarely on the head.

With the acquaintance I mentioned. I have seen him interacting with people in a group and he talks like one of the guys; nothing like the way he was talking to me.

In 3d, I just want to be a regular person, I don't want my whole life to be some sort of counselling session. My wife says that I shouldn't be let out of the house on my own!

Thank goodness I can vent my worries here, because I never share anything like this in 3d. In 3d I spend my time smiling and listening. Maybe that's the problem! LOL Maybe I should scowl a bit more.

On a further humorous note, I sometimes wear a white tshirt under a black sweater and more than once people have thought that I was a priest or a vicar. I mean they actually thought that!

Thanks for the feedback you folks, where would I be without you?

Cheers, M

[Myzen]

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lightanddark said:
I'm not sure whether this is appropriate or not, but maybe part of the trick is to not interact with people, other than acquaintances, in only one format.

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Thanks, light and dark; that is the issue that is bugging me. I'm sure that I am relating to everyone in a certain way, asking certain questions, encouraging responses, smiling and nodding, and it's me that is doing it.

I think that I use this one format because I lack assertiveness. Maybe I think that they won't hurt me if I behave in this way. It doesn't work though, as I don't follow through, I always have to extricate myself.

I mean, it would be like going through life pretending to be a plumber. Everyone would talk about their plumbing problems, people would ask for quotes, it would be a nightmare. This is the stuff of soap opera.

Here at PC, we are posting for a reason, and that is to support each other, but in the wide world there are many different contexts, as you rightly say.

Thanks

M

i'm with Julia. the world is a support forum. what if i hadn't spoken, with care and sincerity, to my pilot neighbor one morning and had not learned that his daughter had just gone to re-hab the day before. he trusts me totally and he was so relieved that i stopped to say hello. he opened up and told me what he was afraid to tell others.

boundaries are what keeps it level. when someone crosses a boundary with me, i very carefully and tactfully let them know that i can't handle whatever it is that they want me to handle. otherwise, i try to give as much as i get. there are people here that i will never meet and yet i care about them deeply and will always listen and support them.

i understand your point of view, but i am concerned about your friend. especially since he said he only has two people in his life worth his caring. perhaps he needed just a tiny part of you and would eventually become strong enough to move on. moving on is where i try to get them if i feel like i can't be all they need.

hope i don't sound preachy, but we are put here as stewards. that's my belief. just as LMo was put here to be my steward. and by gosh darn, she better not forget it! xoxoxo pat

[Rhapsody]

This world sucks and is evil to the core.... to many selfish people in it.

[Myzen]

Oh fay,

I understand just what your saying, and you too Butterfly.

I guess what I'm feeling is - why me? The guy in question has lots of bar room friends, and some kids that he tells me never call him. I just saw that hungry look in his eye, and I knew that I wasn't going to be up for the job he had in mind for me. The energy just isn't in there.

OK, I'll give him a call, but I'm pretty sure that when he realises I'm not going to be the 'shoulder' for him, he'll move on anyway. It has always happened in the past. As I said in the first post, the few long term friends I have are people who didn't go too deep too fast - it took years to build up those relationships, a little at a time, slow and easy, give and take.

I've written a song about this kind of stuff, and I'll stick it in the creative section. It's one that I perform in the clubs, but you'll only get the words I'm afraid. It's called "Give me your troubles".

Thanks again, M