[noncontra]

Hi everyone. Before I start, allow me to make one thing clear: I don’t “prefer the company of men” nor do I think men are better than women. I think women are great. Believe me, those deluded female misogynists with “special snowflake” syndrome annoy the **** out of me. Anyway, here is my situation:

I have always lacked social skills and have always had difficulty making friends in general. Despite this, the few close friendships I have formed in my life have always been with men. I have never felt close to another woman. I just feel more comfortable with men for some reason and I don’t know why. It always seems like the women I meet resent me and so I have difficulty connecting with them. For example, my female house mate is always needlessly haranguing me and trying to make me look stupid, but she doesn’t do this with the man that we live with. On the other hand, the man is perfectly civil to me.

I’m in college now doing a male-dominated course so that‘s not helping things. I hang around with a few guys and feel quite comfortable with them. There is one other woman in our group and even though I always make an effort with her, I have failed to really “connect“ with her like I have with the men. I just don’t get that “spark”.

There is another woman in my college who I feel a lot of unwarranted hatred from, but I see her with other women having a laugh and generally being affectionate. This makes me think it’s my problem. Maybe I subconsciously feel threatened by other women, and that affects my intentionality towards them? I don’t know, I would like to think I have more self-respect than that.

It’s not that I think women are “*****y” or too dramatic. I just feel a lot of resentment from them for some reason, like they think I’m weird/odd. I don’t think I give them reason to be jealous either… I am an attractive woman but I could do with losing a few pounds, I am quite intelligent and I can be funny. That’s about it.

I hate gender stereotypes but I feel I will have to invoke some here... From society's perspective, I would be considered quite "male-identified" in my interests (philosophy, politics, science, computers). I have also been told that my mannerisms and general demeanor are more male than female. I have "male traits" such as being individualistic/solitary, strong/silent, rational, assertive, nerdy. (Eurgh, I hate myself for writing that! I definitely do not endorse these gender roles). But yes, I have always been like this ever since I was a child. Could this be relevent?

A while ago I read that it’s easier for women to get along with men because they just appreciate the female attention anyway, so they welcome women, they make allowances for them and you have to do less “work” to establish a friendship. Could this be a factor? I don’t know. Would appreciate some perspectives or people with similar experience.

[Leed]

Hi ~ I have ALWAYS felt more comfortable with men than women. I'm a female -- kinda small, a bit shy, and certainly not pushy or dominant. It seems that women are ALWAYS in competition with one another, whether it's to rule the conversation, competing for men, jobs, etc. I have only one CLOSE friend, and we've known each other since we were 4 yrs old -- I'm 62 now! LOL It seems other women I've known have either stabbed me in the back, or just plain "dumped" me -- And I KNOW I haven't done anything to warrant it. I'm certainly not perfect, but there have been times I didn't deserve the treatment I got either.

I would MUCH prefer to work with men. Women are too catty. It seems they're always talking about someone else & getting into other peoples' business. I don't like that.

Men don't do that (as much). They're much easier to talk to and don't have a hidden agenda. That's just the way I see it.

Don't be so hard on yourself -- chances are it's not your fault! God bless & take care. Hugs, Lee

[SakuraLi]

I can relate to what both of you are saying! I too have felt the sting and subsequent reluctance towards female friendships. All because of how a so called friend treated me back when I was at community college. She was poor, had a tough home life and she got married young and she was obviously pregnant looked about 6 months along and she was in denial but kept saying she didnt want any kids. The day after 9/11 2001 she we nuts on me telling me I`m a spoiled brat, my parents pay for all my stuff and I was vain (because I use to put make up on when we sat together in class in high school). she was clearly jealous probably had a nervous breakdown and who knows what else. I wouldnt make friends with another female for 4 years after that. slowly i worked on being friends with other females and realized not all of them are bad or crazy like my former friend. and previous to our fall out she was cool and easy going and one of the nicest people I knew in high school and trust me there were no nice people in high school all jerks. so my point is I had a horrible experience with her and furthermore I`ve always had bad experiences with females friends even some male friends but now I know i shouldnt let bad people deter me from reaching out and having female friends sometimes you just NEED another woman`s shoulder to cry on or just to talk about girl stuff. the female friendship is a work in progress for me even one of my current friends makes a little trouble about the fact that I am thin and she is not and made a few comments about my boyfriend calling when we go places. jealous? Probablyz but I`m working on not caring! I`m the last person anyone needs to be jealous of. somethings we can ignore you know. but if she ever disrespects me I`ll tell her and she`s gone. my advice to you is pick out some women who seem nice and say hello and try to chatt with ones in your dorm or library or cafeteria. good luck. Ps sometime people we think are not nice end up being the coolest people.

[jitters]

Originally Posted by noncontra

It always seems like the women I meet resent me and so I have difficulty connecting with them.

My gut instinct is that you're projecting these feelings onto other women. Self-sabotaging, if you will. If you look at it from a purely rational perspective, you know it isn't possible that every woman you've ever met dislikes you. It's either imagined or you're unconsciously altering your demeanor around women and giving off a Stay Away vibe.

I hang around with a few guys and feel quite comfortable with them. There is one other woman in our group and even though I always make an effort with her, I have failed to really “connect“ with her like I have with the men. I just don’t get that “spark”.

You aren't going to like every woman you meet, and vice versa. There's no such thing as an esoteric Great Sisterhood that psychically and spiritually unites all vagina owners.

I hate gender stereotypes but I feel I will have to invoke some here... From society's perspective, I would be considered quite "male-identified" in my interests (philosophy, politics, science, computers). I have also been told that my mannerisms and general demeanor are more male than female. I have "male traits" such as being individualistic/solitary, strong/silent, rational, assertive, nerdy. (Eurgh, I hate myself for writing that! I definitely do not endorse these gender roles). But yes, I have always been like this ever since I was a child. Could this be relevent?

Not really, no. I've met plenty of women (mostly online because I'm not a social creature) who share your personality traits and inclinations. Maybe you want to consider joining groups that cater to your interests. I'm sure you'll meet like-minded women if you seek them out.

A while ago I read that it’s easier for women to get along with men because they just appreciate the female attention anyway, so they welcome women, they make allowances for them and you have to do less “work” to establish a friendship. Could this be a factor?

That sounds about right. I have a feeling that the women you yearn to interact with maybe don't fit your idea of what women should act like. Do you think it's possible that you expect women to be more warm and mushy than their male counterparts, and when you don't get that warmth from them you conclude that they don't like you? Maybe your standards for male and female behavior are different and this is coloring your perception of others' perception of you?

I think you'll find that your "soul sisters" are more likely to appear cooler and indifferent at first glance. Try to initiate conversation anyway. Try to remember that it takes time to form relationships, and sometimes the best ones start off on the wrong foot or don't appear to be going anywhere in the beginning. Most importantly, I really think you'd be pleasantly surprised if you made an effort to meet women who share your interests. It's a rare thing to accidentally meet your new bff...people are generally drawn to those who are somewhat similar to themselves.

Good luck to you

I have the same issues with meeting and keeping female friends. I think there's a lot of individual reasons why some women would either prefer men as friends, or maybe not even prefer them but just be able to relate to them better. I also believe that there is a gradual shift in traditional gender roles occuring in some societies. I honestly believe I would've fit right in during the "Rosie the Riveter" days of WW2. All the women had to come together which is great in itself, but they also got to build planes and stuff which would've been so cool for me (but it would be even better if it wasn't for the purpose of a war, of course) Anyway, I think our gender is advancing and progressing, and we are still in the beginning stages.............I saw this while christmas shopping this year. It made me kinda sad that we've seemed to have taken a little step back with all the mindless toys for little girls the stores are carrying. I think someone, don't know who, is trying to push us back into those traditional roles of looking pretty and serving the man. I'm not totally against that, but wasn't the whole feminist movement supposed to be so women have a choice about who they want to be? I never liked dolls, or anything like that. My mom got me little cars, and legos. As an adult, I work on my own car, my job is unloading a truck everynight with 3 guys, and I hate shopping. I've often felt like I just can't find another woman I can be friends with though. I'm afraid I'll either get bored with them, or they'll get bored with me. Also, some women are traditionally girly in their interests and looks, but talk about such filthy things........that's not for me either. It's kind of a difficult road, but I can't be any other way. I used to think I liked being friends with men, but learned that many men do have hidden agendas, and do not just want to be your friend. Also, they can be totally different when hanging out with other men. I now know I NEED female friends. Like at work when the guys are complaining about how tired they are and how heavy everything is, I can't just shout out, "Ooooohhhh, I have baaaad cramps today!!!" And men do not generally want to hear about our complex feelings, and try to talk stuff out with us...........They have their good qualities too, but they are not women, and don't know what it's like to be us, just like we don't know what it's like to be them even if some of us have more masculine qualities and interests. People's personalities are made up of both male and female traits, and maybe the key is finding friends who complement and balance out our own traits.

oh, what's special snowflake syndrome? curious...... haven't heard that term before.......

[noncontra]

A female with “special snowflake syndrome” professes to resent women but considers herself an “exception”, better than the others. They’re usually highly annoying, deluded and just looking for male approval.

Thanks for the replies, everyone. It’s certainly possible that I’m self-sabotaging, expecting women not to like me so it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Why I would expect that, I need to explore. Then again I ought keep in mind that the course I am in and the main club I am involved with are male-dominated, so it just makes sense that I have more male friends! I guess the next step is to get involved in female-dominated groups. My options/time are limited though!

It’s not that I expect women to be nicer than men. Well, I don’t think I do… perhaps it’s a subconscious thing and I still have a way to go in erasing my patriarchal conditioning ;p certainly possible…

[hottinroof]

I have some recent insights here that may help. I, too, have always had difficult relationships with other women. I am 52, straight, and married.

All my close female friends, even since childhood, have turned out to be abusive (verbally and sometimes physically).
I worked out that I was repeating a pattern of relating to my mother, who is a classic narcissist. So, I was attracted to exciting, unstable, women, who used me for what they could get and then moved on once they got it, leaving me feeling rejected. I didn't feel worthwhile unless I was desperately trying to please these people.
Since I had therapy, and stopped the impossible task of trying to please my unpleasable mother, I have looked for female friendship, but not with much luck. I meet other women at work, school, socially, in sport and through parent's groups. All the nice, caring, intelligent women seem to me to be - yes - incredibly boring. I am so used to the ups and downs of a drama queen (thanks mother!) that I find it difficult to persevere with the "bores", who are actually the quality people I deserve to have as friends. And underneath their "boring" exterior, I'm sure they're very interesting people, much more interesting than the drama queens.
My most recent "bust-up" with a close girlfriend took 12 years! 12 years of insults and abuse! I feel really stupid, I couldn't even see it. I sent her a xmas card, and she didn't even send me one!
I still can't get away from my mother. She came to visit recently, and since then I've received numerous phone messages, emails, snail mail, and facebook messages. All about - guess who - her and her latest "dramas"!
So, at the moment, I have no close female friends. I am super-careful about getting close to any women. Yet I have always had fabulous friendships with men. No problems at all. I have two fairly sane brothers, and I have been happily married for 20 years. I feel at ease with men. I hope, one day, to feel at ease with women. Normal, nice ones, not abusive ones.
Anyway, I just thought that my experience may be of interest to you.

I understand all of this. I have not really ever fit in with my female cohorts. As with noncontra, I feel as though I am reasonably attractive if a bit overweight. I also feel that I am more assertive (maybe even aggressive), more outspoken, more interested in intellectual pursuits (uh, not to say that they're stupid), sports, and more geeky than my female counterparts. When you put my interests in studying to do well on my microbiology test next to, say, my coworkers desire to find the best happy hour special tonight, you can see how I may not fit in with this group of females. Sometimes I believe that some women just don't know how to take me. I'm a straight shooter and prefer not to sugar coat things as I know many women are prone to doing (which isn't necessarily bad). I tend to have a hard exterior despite a very sensitive heart. Yeah...most people don't know what to do with me, let alone women!

I wish they would make a movie like "I Love You Man" but with a woman who has trouble making female friends. Also, in the movie "Bridesmaids," Melissa McCarthy's character is a great example of a woman who has more male interests and personality, and she proves to be such a good friend to Kristen Wiig's character. I just remembered something I had to keep telling myself 5 years ago after my best girlfriend had dumped me...........To have a friend, you have to learn to be a friend. I don't know about anyone else, but I really had to look at myself truthfully, and ask if I was a good friend to the few female friends I had back then. To be brutally honest, I don't think I was. I mean I wasn't horrible, but I could've been better. Just a thought........maybe men don't expect as much emotional connection from us as a woman would in a friendship, so maybe it's easier for us to be friends with men because of that. We aren't very comfortable putting in that type of effort because we just aren't programmed like that from, say, unhealthy mother/daughter relationships. Years after my friend dumped me, I learned that she always thought it was strange that I never hugged her. I was surprised because she didn't seem like the hugging type either, but I now see how I wasn't in tune with her.........I could've paid more attention.

Also, it seems like we've always learned that women are the emotional creatures that cry at the drop of a hat and men are the rational mental beings we can count on to not break down in hysterics...........but as I get older, I'm starting to see that this is not really the case. Hopefully, we are starting to shift into a matriarchal society.
We need way more women leaders, and thinkers, and doers on the front lines. In a way, I'm thinking that mindful women who aren't just interested in social hot spots and stuff, should embrace their emotional nature as well, and that mind/heart duo would make one heck of a strong woman.

Oh, thanks for the definition, I think I've met a few of those.

[Notdamooma]

Dear Noncontra, Please don't blame yourself for your situation. Sometimes people just get along better with the opposite sex. They can relate more and can't really understand some of the "silly" female traits. Or maybe it could be stemmed from your relationship with a female authority figure. I know in my case i grew up with a cold distant mother who never taught me how to have a female/female relationship. I was also isolated as a child to hide the abuse that was going on. Whatever your issues, I hope you find answers to bring you peace. Sending you lots of hugs.

[Pupil406]

Originally Posted by noncontra

Hi everyone. Before I start, allow me to make one thing clear: I don’t “prefer the company of men” nor do I think men are better than women. I think women are great. Believe me, those deluded female misogynists with “special snowflake” syndrome annoy the **** out of me. Anyway, here is my situation:

I have always lacked social skills and have always had difficulty making friends in general. Despite this, the few close friendships I have formed in my life have always been with men. I have never felt close to another woman. I just feel more comfortable with men for some reason and I don’t know why. It always seems like the women I meet resent me and so I have difficulty connecting with them. For example, my female house mate is always needlessly haranguing me and trying to make me look stupid, but she doesn’t do this with the man that we live with. On the other hand, the man is perfectly civil to me.

I’m in college now doing a male-dominated course so that‘s not helping things. I hang around with a few guys and feel quite comfortable with them. There is one other woman in our group and even though I always make an effort with her, I have failed to really “connect“ with her like I have with the men. I just don’t get that “spark”.

There is another woman in my college who I feel a lot of unwarranted hatred from, but I see her with other women having a laugh and generally being affectionate. This makes me think it’s my problem. Maybe I subconsciously feel threatened by other women, and that affects my intentionality towards them? I don’t know, I would like to think I have more self-respect than that.

It’s not that I think women are “*****y” or too dramatic. I just feel a lot of resentment from them for some reason, like they think I’m weird/odd. I don’t think I give them reason to be jealous either… I am an attractive woman but I could do with losing a few pounds, I am quite intelligent and I can be funny. That’s about it.

I hate gender stereotypes but I feel I will have to invoke some here... From society's perspective, I would be considered quite "male-identified" in my interests (philosophy, politics, science, computers). I have also been told that my mannerisms and general demeanor are more male than female. I have "male traits" such as being individualistic/solitary, strong/silent, rational, assertive, nerdy. (Eurgh, I hate myself for writing that! I definitely do not endorse these gender roles). But yes, I have always been like this ever since I was a child. Could this be relevent?

A while ago I read that it’s easier for women to get along with men because they just appreciate the female attention anyway, so they welcome women, they make allowances for them and you have to do less “work” to establish a friendship. Could this be a factor? I don’t know. Would appreciate some perspectives or people with similar experience.

My questions for you: Are you extremely attractive? Very confident and self-assertive? I ask these questions because MOST seem to be very intimidated by this. Also, you mentioned that you were a strong silent which could be very intimidating as well. May be you come off as stand-offish and aloof. And I agree with Jitters these women probably feel the energy that you are putting out there. Try to view them as being loving and open to you and nonjudgemental.

[Trippin2.0]

I've had the same problem all my life. No really ALL my life... My 1st friend ever is a boy, my 1st bff a boy, the 1st girl i became friends with at age 7, said I was too wild for her, and I had zero interest in dolls and tea sets. Early school years I tried making girl friends, that ALWAYS ended badly, and as I got older, some girls branded me for hanging out with the guys, so I had to deal with a nasty hurtful reputation at home and at school. Ffwd to HS, every girl i tried to to befriend either stabbed me in the back or entered me into some contest without notifying me. I ended up having a clique of all guy friends, whom I still have contact with. I've never felt that any of these girls would eventually turn on me, as i have a flaw which makes me always see the good in people anyway... I mentioned it to 1 of my friends and he said that females probly find me threatening/intimidating, b.c I don't try so hard, or at all. I just strike up a convo, without any intentions beyond conversating and voila... Also, I don't really understand or relate to women emotionally ( I have 2 cousins a sister and 1 friend) their actions and reactions baffle me, esp in the context of a romantic relationship, so i tend to avoid those convo's as my views and opinions aren't welcome... So yeah, I hear you hun. Btw, I really don't think it's your fault at all! XOXO

[Callmebj]

Hi Noncontra, I have met women who are back stabbers and seem to be competitive and have met women who are perfectly accepting of their sister friends. I personally get along with females better than males. I think this is due to the sexual harrassment I received when younger. We all develope a lot of stero-typing through our lives as to our own experiences. I'm sure your developmental beginnings have a lot to do with your present preferences.

[Woundedheart1]

For as long as I can remember all my friends were boys even as a child! I wad a total tomboy! I hid my dolls and my dresses and played with my brothers friends. Even at in gymnastics my friends were all the guys not the girls. It's been a pattern repeated thru my life. Women seen to make snide remarks behind my back but I always hear them. I'm now 38 and still don't have any close female relationships. I've just always found it easier to relate to guys/ men. Theyve always for me been easier to communicate with and I have more interests like sports. I've dated plenty of guys and that always been an issues my friends are all guys. My response is nothing keeps u from going out on a guys night!

[lido78]

This all sounds so familiar! I find that I have to change the way that I speak around most women so as to not be too blunt or to mistakenly offend them. The same language that puts other women off seems to delight my male friends, however. I find that I have to work harder at communicating with some female friends but have managed to find others who are similar to me and enjoy my "style" as my male friends do.

I will note, however, that the female friends who are easier for me to deal with on a day to day basis are not as emotionally supportive as the others. If I mention a fight with my boyfriend, for example, the response is "That sucks, but I'm sure you guys will work it out," and then back to the other topics at hand. The more "girly" friends are quick with a hug and a response of "I'm so sorry...what happened...tell me about it."

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I need friends of all types to balance all of my needs...I work a bit harder with some women because, in the end, they have been more than worth the effort.

I had no close, long term female friends until I started going to endurance and competitive trail horseback riding competitions. Even in law school, I just wasn't like the other women. As it turns out, though, women who do distance riding of one form or another are SO MUCH like me! We talk about saddle fit, whether leather or biothane is best, which chain saw we like best for trail clearing, which automatic waterer is best, etc. Sometimes all it takes is finding the RIGHT kind of women to hang out with.