Ever since the day my dad committed suicide and we were forced to move to another province, my mother has had nothing but issues with employment, especially within the last year I believe.

The issue seems to be cyclical. Let me explain…

Phase One: All She Needs is A Job.
During this phase she sits mostly on the couch doing little of anything while simultaneously putting all the pressure on me to support the two of us on my income from disability services (in other words spending my money and bankrupting me) and forcing me to search for employment options for her since she lacks the know how of that, including making a resume. She will repeatedly say that all she wants is a job during this phase and that she will take anything. Also while in this phase she constantly complains about having no money (because she is not working) and comes to me begging for money. (She likes to take me into stores and sweet talk me into buying her something, which, honestly, after a buy her something is the only time she ever treats me as though I am loved…)

Phase Two: I Have Found Her a Job.
During this phase, which usually begins after a few weeks or months of online job searching for her and her having spent the vast majority of my money, there is a prospective employer interested in hiring her, and it is usually either a basic job or one she is really looking forward to and adamantly believes will make her feel happy and fulfilled.

Phase Three: Employment Starts and Reality Comes Knocking on the Door.
During this phase she will have started whatever job it is that she was able to find and will have begun complaining about it on a daily basis because, although all she wanted was a job and that this one would work is what she said, there is inevitably something wrong with it. In the past this has included a mean boss, bad hours, too long of a drive, the work was not fun, the work was hard, whatever it might be, and she begins contemplating quitting this employment to look for a more fulfilling job despite her pledge that she would remain with this one no matter what and/or it would be the one that fulfilled her.

Phase Four: The Hate.
During this phase her hate for her life and her job increases dramatically and consumes her life it seems. She talks about nothing other than how horrible this job is and everything that is wrong with her life. She will inevitably quit.

Phase One…

You might say that it is not the responsibility of her 21-year-old son to be taking care of her and taking responsibility for the household, but that is kind of hard to ignore when it keeps arriving on my desk to solve and when there is no money for anything other than my money. Moreover, we live in a trailer, so it adds to the fact that we’re near each other all the time while I am waiting for vocational rehab to accept me for employment support so I can successfully work full-time.

Truthfully, I don’t think my mother has ever had to care for herself, and she has never lived on her own before. She went straight from with her parents to marriage with my dad when they were 18 years old.

And I can’t talk to my mother on the best of days (and this has always been the case even before my dad’s suicide). I am usually under the impression that she doesn’t care what I have to say. Most of the time she will totally ignore me and disregard everything I have said providing she even acknowledges that I am talking or am there.

It’s always hard to think that I’ve never had emotionally present parents or love or support for most of my life. I hate it when others think that self-acceptance and self-love are preprogrammed into humans and that all it takes is some random epiphany of mine and lots of warm positive thoughts to feel better about everything, as if all it takes is a post-it note on my mirror of a compliment. What a total disregard for my experiences and the human condition…

Anyway, advice about my mother?

[mindamarie]

My mom is the exact same way, but it's more my dad the tries to get her out of the house instead of me, since I'm still a teen. Well anyways, I dont know why but she cant hold a job. She would just rather relax all day instead of earning money, which we've been very short on. Then my dad spends all day yelling at her which is so stressful. Blah, anyways, even though you think she doesnt care, the only option you really have is to talk to her. Tell her that moping around and complaining isnt what he would of wanted and she deserves to get a job she is happy with. It might take awhile, but instead of forcing her to apply for random jobs, maybe get her intrested in something she likes? That way she wont have room to complain. Just a suggestion.

[ECHOES]

It sounds like a very scary time for your mother, coping and having to provide for herself.
There is often a 'honeymoon' phase to new relationships, including work relationships.
I wonder if she'd consider a therapist to help her with the adjustment.

Phase One: The Fear and Desparation.
Phase Two: The Relief and The Hope.
Phase Three: More Fear and Insecurity.
Phase Four: The Self Disappointment, The Self Loathing, The Intensified Fear, The Hopelessness. (for relief, see Phase One)

[Open Eyes]

Oh Mr. Venomous,

Echoes could be right also but I wonder if this may be going on as well. You know your mother more than we do. Maybe a therapist could nail it down for you better. We are not professionals remember. Some of my thoughts are.......

I am so sorry that you have been through all of this. You are absoultly right we are not necesarily born with the emotional package for our future. We ARE born with the ability to learn that from our parents who are supposed to nurture us and show us all of that. And the human child imprints many things from their parents without realizing it, unfortunately even negetive things. After teaching and being around children for so many years, yes I saw that in many ways.

Yes I see the dilemma with your mother now. But what is her background? To be fair to her, that has to also be considered because as I said, if children are not raised to flourish and thrive, well, you are looking at one of the sad end results in very close quarters.

From what you are discribing, your mother didn't learn how to be much of anything other than a woman who always expected others to provide for her so she could thives on some kind of level. That is what she is really saying by what you are discribing here.

So what IS her imprinting? Oh she truely thinks that it is not her job or role to be a provider. And there are many women that think this. There still is that old role thing where the man is the one for that and the woman is to be at home, keep the house and maybe raise children (not all do that right either as you can see). So this working sounds inviting to her, but once she gets into a job, it just goes against her conditioning that somehow she should not truely be doing that. She honestly doesn't feel right about it and looks for reasons to dislike it and quit. She is probably not even aware of this either. She is torn between wanting to be productive in some way and just not feeling right when she is actually doing that part in a work situation.

People who are used to being "TENDED TO, PROVIDED FOR" do react this way. And she doesn't even know how to tend to others at all from what you discribe of how she treats you. How old is she? This is not an easy fix, she isn't grown up at all you know. She is an adult child that just expects to be taken care of somehow. She is not capable of seeing your sacrifices either, in her mind it is your job to care for her. And that is why she zones you out.

She is going to have to somehow learn to care for herself from scratch and may not be able to do it. The only thing that I can think of is DONT GIVE HER ANY MORE MONEY THEN YOU HAVE TO. Ofcourse you have to have a roof over your heads, but don't give her anything else. And I am going to warn you SHE IS NOT GOING TO LIKE IT AND MAY EVEN THROW SOME CHILDISH TANTRUMS. Who knows what kind of childish behaviors she might try.

But before I continue with this? Has she ever worked? It doesn't sound like it. And maybe she is depressed about your father, don't know what kind of relationship they had. But she is a lost lady right now IMO.

Open Eyes

[insideout]

sounds like a difficult situation. sounds like you are torn between wanting to help your mom and having your own life. maybe you can set her up with a social worker and some resources and a support system, then get on. fly out of the nest. you deserve a life too, and with those kinds of things in place for her, you can feel good knowing she is safe and secure.

I don't have any advice but I want to acknowledge your post. It's ****ing brilliant and the last paragraph should be a must-read for all parents.

[Switch]

This sounds like my moms friend/neighbor... Despite all that's happened to her she doesn't understand the idea of her getting a job. I don't really know what to offer you, but maybe talk your mom into getting government support (EI, welfare, if she is eligible then disability). Maybe put in her head that she should try and get disability and thus needs a councilor first, as a way to trick her into getting some of her issues resolved. But that's a bit far fetched. Honestly, it sounds like she isn't about to change because she's too stuck inside herself so I don't really know what else to do. :/

(((hug))) Just know that if it gets unbearable, there is always a way out (not suicide).

Also, cheers to a fellow Canadian!

And I second George's comment: your post is very well put together!

Echoes:

Your description of those phases seems appropriate to me. However, she has done some counseling before, but I don’t believe she will again because she doesn’t want to talk to anyone, least of all a counselor. She tells me she doesn’t believe it will help and that it is the same thing over and over again.

Open Eyes:

My mother’s background? She graduated from a college here (which is different from a ‘college’ in the U.S.A.) and used to work as some accountant or whatnot for a large insurance company, but she quit her job to raise her children, and hasn’t worked too much since then, although she has had basic employment all over when we, her children, were old enough to not need a mother 24/7. So, in other words, she worked with a nice job 20+ years ago.

Honestly, it seems correct to think my mother has an imprinting of men to take care of her, because she talks about this a lot. She once had her tarot cards read and she hoped that a rich man would come into her life and take care of her, and she frequently talks about how it is a “man’s job” to do certain things, which leaves me puzzled all the time thinking, “Where does that come from?”

My mother is 53 years old. Yes, she is an adult child, and I feel significantly more mature than she is. Sometimes I wish that I had found my dad’s dead body - I could have handled it much better than she could. I suppose I feel like I have been hardened to such things after years of abuse.

Yes my mother has worked before. The difference is she never had to work - she always worked because she wanted to and could afford to job hop or not work at all. My dad was a manager for a large shipping corporation. As for their relationship, my dad was abusive to my mother.

George H.:

Thanks for the compliment about my post - I like writing and I do a lot of it . It’s talking that is harder for me . Spent most of my earlier years in a hospital undergoing speech therapy.

Switch:

My mother cannot receive government support because she receives money from Canadian Pension Plan since my dad is dead. I’ve been attempting to encourage her to do something like skills upbringing, a trade, or something that can provide better employment that she might like, but she brushes me off most of the time, again assuming she acknowledged me in the first place.

Yes, cheers from a fellow Canadian .

Anyhow…

I’m in a rough spot because I can’t really afford to live on my own because of the cost of rent, but then my mother is causing me so much stress. As harsh it might sound, I feel like my mother is this miserable old woman that won’t ever recover from my dad’s suicide and that she is a lost cause for me. It’s hard to remain caring, loving, and empathetic to someone over the same issues and whom isn’t like that to you.

I would love to sit down and talk to my mother, think of a solution and discuss our options, and do something productive. Nope. She won’t do it. She’s right and she will do it her way regardless and then expect me to solve it when it inevitably ends badly for her. This morning she said she is thinking of quitting her job now and that the next job will be the right one - EXCUSE ME?! I can tell you I’ve heard that before…about every 2 months for the last year, and I said that to her, but she ignored me and remains adamant the next job will be better, when I know for a fact that she will find something wrong about it, quit it, and say the next job is the right one for the 10th time.

[Open Eyes]

(((Mr. Venomous)))

Ok, at first I had pictured her just getting married young and simply being a house wife. So she has worked before and went to college as well.

It sounds to me like she is depressed Venomous. She is probably experiencing some mid life crisis as well here. Your father was abusive and I am sure that took a toll on her and she has some victim mentality going on here as well. I am wondering if she is experiencing some ptsd as well. It seems like she is being avoidant here. Maybe a part of her does want to restructure her life but she is just too lost to truely follow through with that.

I think that the best thing for her right now is to get some therapy to be honest. Yes, I know she is resistant but if you CAN convince her and help her find a therapist, that really should come first. I don't think you should expect her to just jump in and take over for herself, she is clearly lost and depressed. Sometimes when ptsd is setting in, there can be a period of depression like this. I know about this because that is what happened to me and I had no idea I was sinking so bad.

Now that I think about it, her zoning you out and just going through the cycle your talking about, she is definitely very lost and I wouldn't be surprised if she is experiencing PTSD as I mentioned. There is nothing you can do to fix this other than get her to a therapist. And I am sorry that she is not giving you attention, but it really sounds to me like she is just self absorbed with her history of being abused and your father's suicide. That is a lot for someone to experience and it does takes its toll, she probably was never happy and safe.

If she is breaking down, you have to find it within yourself to be supportive because she is truely lost. She has to pick through her whole life to finally be able to find her way most likely.

Open Eyes

[IceCreamKid]

Originally Posted by Mr. Venomous

Ever since the day my dad committed suicide and we were forced to move to another province, my mother has had nothing but issues with employment, especially within the last year I believe.

The issue seems to be cyclical. Let me explain…

Phase One: All She Needs is A Job.
During this phase she sits mostly on the couch doing little of anything while simultaneously putting all the pressure on me to support the two of us on my income from disability services (in other words spending my money and bankrupting me) and forcing me to search for employment options for her since she lacks the know how of that, including making a resume. She will repeatedly say that all she wants is a job during this phase and that she will take anything. Also while in this phase she constantly complains about having no money (because she is not working) and comes to me begging for money. (She likes to take me into stores and sweet talk me into buying her something, which, honestly, after a buy her something is the only time she ever treats me as though I am loved…)

Phase Two: I Have Found Her a Job.
During this phase, which usually begins after a few weeks or months of online job searching for her and her having spent the vast majority of my money, there is a prospective employer interested in hiring her, and it is usually either a basic job or one she is really looking forward to and adamantly believes will make her feel happy and fulfilled.

Phase Three: Employment Starts and Reality Comes Knocking on the Door.
During this phase she will have started whatever job it is that she was able to find and will have begun complaining about it on a daily basis because, although all she wanted was a job and that this one would work is what she said, there is inevitably something wrong with it. In the past this has included a mean boss, bad hours, too long of a drive, the work was not fun, the work was hard, whatever it might be, and she begins contemplating quitting this employment to look for a more fulfilling job despite her pledge that she would remain with this one no matter what and/or it would be the one that fulfilled her.

Phase Four: The Hate.
During this phase her hate for her life and her job increases dramatically and consumes her life it seems. She talks about nothing other than how horrible this job is and everything that is wrong with her life. She will inevitably quit.

Phase One…

You might say that it is not the responsibility of her 21-year-old son to be taking care of her and taking responsibility for the household, but that is kind of hard to ignore when it keeps arriving on my desk to solve and when there is no money for anything other than my money. Moreover, we live in a trailer, so it adds to the fact that we’re near each other all the time while I am waiting for vocational rehab to accept me for employment support so I can successfully work full-time.

Truthfully, I don’t think my mother has ever had to care for herself, and she has never lived on her own before. She went straight from with her parents to marriage with my dad when they were 18 years old.

And I can’t talk to my mother on the best of days (and this has always been the case even before my dad’s suicide). I am usually under the impression that she doesn’t care what I have to say. Most of the time she will totally ignore me and disregard everything I have said providing she even acknowledges that I am talking or am there.

It’s always hard to think that I’ve never had emotionally present parents or love or support for most of my life. I hate it when others think that self-acceptance and self-love are preprogrammed into humans and that all it takes is some random epiphany of mine and lots of warm positive thoughts to feel better about everything, as if all it takes is a post-it note on my mirror of a compliment. What a total disregard for my experiences and the human condition…

Anyway, advice about my mother?

I don't think epiphanies are random or temporary, but that isn't what you are asking. You already know the answer: your mother has not had to care for herself. This won't get better unless she either experiences an epiphany or someone helps her see she needs to help herself.

Whoever your contact is in vocational rehab may be able to help guide you to the proper resource for you mother; for lack of a better term she is akin to a 'displaced homemaker' regardless of whether she was a good one or not. I'm not going to tell you that self-acceptance and self-love come preprogrammed (although they might--) but they sure as heck can get kicked out of one by unrelenting circumstances, especially if those circumstances start when a person is young enough (in my experience and opinion).

Anyway, to go back to your mother. The fact is that work is work for most people.While you hear some people rhapsodize about how they love what they do so much it isn't really work, blah blah blah, I think if you do it day in and day out for enough years, it's work all right. Part of the reality of work is that one must stick with it.

First your father and now you have become your mother's safety net. You can decide to stop being that. Before you give her the talk, though, I would look into the options for her, because her learned helplessness isn't going to go away overnight even if you leave her.

Also, if she hasn't been evaluated for depression or anxiety, I think she needs a checkup with the family doctor as a start. Finally, if need be and she cannot truly work a steady job, then whatever social welfare you have in your country must help her and stop expecting you to try to live on half or less of your allotted funds unless your country forces you to support your mother (these things I do not know about Canada). Good luck.

[summeryoga]

Oh, MV, I'm so sorry you're in this situation.

I agree so much with all of what Open Eyes said above.

I've mentioned in messages to you before ... You are such an intelligent, gifted person, and you are old and able enough now to start living for *you*. I will be direct here, and I apologize if it ends up being hurtful in any way: You have a great life waiting for you, but I think that living with and supporting your mom is preventing you from living that life and being as healthy as you want - and deserve - to be. She needs to see a therapist for her grief and depression, and you need to start putting yourself first. The mom in me feels terribly that any parent would depend so much upon their own child. It is not your responsibility to hold her up.

You're on the edge of living a better, healthier life
... I see that in your posts. In your heart, you know you are capable of supporting yourself financially. Save up your money, move to your own place, and start a new phase in your life. You *can* love and support your mom - and more importantly, yourself - if you move into your own space.

Again, I apologize if that advice sounds harsh, but my maternal instincts want you to flourish, because I know you can.

[lynn P.]

Sorry for me coming late to this post. Since you have a problem with your mom taking money from you, maybe she needs some financial advice. If she works and collect funds from your dad - she should have enough money since you live in a trailer with low expenses(assuming). Since you're an adult, you should be giving her some money but not beyond that.

I know your abusive history growing up and I suspect your mom may be codependent as you recognize...so you need to set boundaries. Since you're thinking of taking training to get a job, hopefully you'll be able to afford your own place. In the employment agency - they may have placement and training for women/men over 50. Your mom needs to stick with a job, even if its not perfect - you can't be her safety net. I feel you're a good son but you need limits.

I agree your mom probably has mental health challenges from your dad's suicide and even before that...with her tolerating your dad abusing you. A normal women wouldn't let her son be abused. I agree with the others you're smart and deserve a good independent life.