[seeker1950]

I've been communicating for some time now...on a superficial level, with a man with whom I was involved with as a young woman in college. I guess you could say I treated him badly, but, in fact, the man was, and is, very shallow. I don't know why I've felt the need to communicate with him, but yesterday, I sent him a heartfelt letter trying to "make amends" for the bad experience we had together. Since we've communicated for quite some time now, I thought this heartfelt letter would elicit a response that was equally responsive. Instead, it was abrupt, rude and dismissive of my attempt at amends. It leaves me feeling this was "pearls before swine."
I didn't have to do this...write a heartfelt letter. It was actually generous
on my part. Since receiving his curt response, I've deleted him from all my contacts. If I've learned anything from a lifetime of abuse, it is to avoid such.
So...none of you have to respond to this. I'm just ranting!
Patty

[hamster-bamster]

Patty:

You would not have been able to categorize him as "swine" so clearly had you not written the letter. So, a good outcome - you obtained clear information and acted on it by deleting him.

I hope you did not spend TOO much time drafting the letter.

[healingme4me]

Originally Posted by seeker1950

I've been communicating for some time now...on a superficial level, with a man with whom I was involved with as a young woman in college. I guess you could say I treated him badly, but, in fact, the man was, and is, very shallow. I don't know why I've felt the need to communicate with him, but yesterday, I sent him a heartfelt letter trying to "make amends" for the bad experience we had together. Since we've communicated for quite some time now, I thought this heartfelt letter would elicit a response that was equally responsive. Instead, it was abrupt, rude and dismissive of my attempt at amends. It leaves me feeling this was "pearls before swine."
I didn't have to do this...write a heartfelt letter. It was actually generous
on my part. Since receiving his curt response, I've deleted him from all my contacts. If I've learned anything from a lifetime of abuse, it is to avoid such.
So...none of you have to respond to this. I'm just ranting!
Patty

I once, almost did something like this. Wrote out a letter to an ex. Apologizing for all the pain, etc; took accountability for my part in the break up. Released all those emotions, from, inside of me. Held onto it.

Glad I did, though, he never had the privilege of reading my letter, I came upon some information about some public bashing of myself. Found it on youtube.

Yes, some people in life, it's good riddance.

I hope you found some healing aspect, even if his response wasn't what you wanted, maybe it was what you needed to let go of that past history?

[seeker1950]

Thank you both, Hamster and Healing, for your replies. I was/am not looking for validation, but your responses are helpful, nonetheless. There was and has always been an element of insult coming from this man. It seems part of his persona to set me up for insult. I've experienced it more than once, owing it to what he perceives as my treating him badly. I naively thought an honest letter about my intentions when I was young would elicit a meaningful dialogue with him. This is the risk in trying to make amends. I accept that.
In the perspective of life, this is not important. The man has lived his entire life in a shallow existence...We are both in our 60's. I've married, raised a daughter, lived thru an unhappy marriage, worked to achieve my independence from that, worked as a teacher and an artist, strived to be self-sufficient financially (which I am). This man cannot empathize with any of my experiences because he has spent his entire life indulging himself alone. Why I thought my communication to him would be meaningful, now I see was a waste. I only felt badly because he was so
attached and insistent toward me when I wanted to end the relationship...truly obsessed. None of my friends could tolerate him. Even back then he was so offensive in his behavior.
I guess I thought he might have evolved to become a better human being...NOT!

[healingme4me]

And thank you Perhaps, you weren't looking for the validation, however, your post was validating of what I've been through..this even more so

When I had written my own letter, before seeing the youtube thing, I felt such shame and self-blame for my young, naïve 16year-22yearold behavior, that it consumed me. Led me to accept abuse when I was married, in I deserve this/kharma type of way.

And then, I realized, what you did, in your own way and in my own way.

Thank You for posting this, to begin with

Originally Posted by seeker1950

Thank you both, Hamster and Healing, for your replies. I was/am not looking for validation, but your responses are helpful, nonetheless. There was and has always been an element of insult coming from this man. It seems part of his persona to set me up for insult. I've experienced it more than once, owing it to what he perceives as my treating him badly. I naively thought an honest letter about my intentions when I was young would elicit a meaningful dialogue with him. This is the risk in trying to make amends. I accept that.
In the perspective of life, this is not important. The man has lived his entire life in a shallow existence...We are both in our 60's. I've married, raised a daughter, lived thru an unhappy marriage, worked to achieve my independence from that, worked as a teacher and an artist, strived to be self-sufficient financially (which I am). This man cannot empathize with any of my experiences because he has spent his entire life indulging himself alone. Why I thought my communication to him would be meaningful, now I see was a waste. I only felt badly because he was so
attached and insistent toward me when I wanted to end the relationship...truly obsessed. None of my friends could tolerate him. Even back then he was so offensive in his behavior.
I guess I thought he might have evolved to become a better human being...NOT!

Originally Posted by seeker1950

I've been communicating for some time now...on a superficial level, with a man with whom I was involved with as a young woman in college. I guess you could say I treated him badly, but, in fact, the man was, and is, very shallow. I don't know why I've felt the need to communicate with him, but yesterday, I sent him a heartfelt letter trying to "make amends" for the bad experience we had together. Since we've communicated for quite some time now, I thought this heartfelt letter would elicit a response that was equally responsive. Instead, it was abrupt, rude and dismissive of my attempt at amends. It leaves me feeling this was "pearls before swine."
I didn't have to do this...write a heartfelt letter. It was actually generous
on my part. Since receiving his curt response, I've deleted him from all my contacts. If I've learned anything from a lifetime of abuse, it is to avoid such.
So...none of you have to respond to this. I'm just ranting!
Patty

Amen! Eff that man and his high horse. WTH? All these years and no maturity gained? Good riddance to bad rubbish. Sorry Seeker, you are absolutely right: You are a Pearl that pig does not deserve. Thanks for sharing this encounter with us, it makes me feel better for all my wasted pearls.

[BonnieG2010]

Originally Posted by seeker1950

If I've learned anything from a lifetime of abuse, it is to avoid such.
Patty

Hi Patty
May i ask you what 'a lifetime of abuse' means?

Abused people often search for other people's 'forgiveness' in order to forgive themselves. It is a complicated psychological mechanism that often leads to nothing positive, still in some ways, the abused person keep searching for the one that will forgive them.

Did you treat your ilfetime of abuse? because if you did not, it is still hurting.

[Inedible]

Originally Posted by seeker1950

I guess you could say I treated him badly, but, in fact, the man was, and is, very shallow. I don't know why I've felt the need to communicate with him, but yesterday, I sent him a heartfelt letter trying to "make amends" for the bad experience we had together.

Originally Posted by Matthew 7 ERV - Be Careful About Criticizing Others - Bible Gateway

Matthew 7 (Easy-to-Read Version)

Be Careful About Criticizing Others

7 “Don’t judge others, and God will not judge you. 2 If you judge others, you will be judged the same way you judge them. God will treat you the same way you treat others.

3 “Why do you notice the small piece of dust that is in your friend’s eye, but you don’t notice the big piece of wood that is in your own? 4 Why do you say to your friend, ‘Let me take that piece of dust out of your eye’? Look at yourself first! You still have that big piece of wood in your own eye. 5 You are a hypocrite! First, take the wood out of your own eye. Then you will see clearly to get the dust out of your friend’s eye.

6 “Don’t give something that is holy to dogs. They will only turn and hurt you. And don’t throw your pearls to pigs. They will only step on them.

Before we can properly evaluate his response, it would be necessary to read the letter you sent to him - and in the context of knowing what happened between the two of you. It sounds like you still hold him in contempt. You wrote him a letter to let him know how you really feel. Maybe he got the message just fine.

[TanyaP]

Originally Posted by seeker1950

Thank you both, Hamster and Healing, for your replies. I was/am not looking for validation, but your responses are helpful, nonetheless. There was and has always been an element of insult coming from this man. It seems part of his persona to set me up for insult. I've experienced it more than once, owing it to what he perceives as my treating him badly. I naively thought an honest letter about my intentions when I was young would elicit a meaningful dialogue with him. This is the risk in trying to make amends. I accept that.
In the perspective of life, this is not important. The man has lived his entire life in a shallow existence...We are both in our 60's. I've married, raised a daughter, lived thru an unhappy marriage, worked to achieve my independence from that, worked as a teacher and an artist, strived to be self-sufficient financially (which I am). This man cannot empathize with any of my experiences because he has spent his entire life indulging himself alone. Why I thought my communication to him would be meaningful, now I see was a waste. I only felt badly because he was so
attached and insistent toward me when I wanted to end the relationship...truly obsessed. None of my friends could tolerate him. Even back then he was so offensive in his behavior.
I guess I thought he might have evolved to become a better human being...NOT!

People normally don't change unless they made a decision on their own to change. And this doesn't happen too often. So when writing to him even many years later you shouldn't have expected to see a different person and a different response.. It does hurt sometimes to realize the person is not who you had long hoped they would become, but we should just learn to accept people as they are and not try to build illusions about them.. even as the time passes many personality traits of people we knew years and years back will still be the same and we should just accept it..

[BonnieG2010]

Both Inedible and Tanya are saying that people are just the way they are and it is wrong not to accept them just the way they are.

They are forgetting that some people do wrong to other people. and that is not acceptable.

[Inedible]

Not exactly. I am saying that it would be fairly ... superficial ... for us all to assume that Seeker1950 is completely in the right and that her ex really is swine. In the absence of complete information none of us here is qualified to judge.

It may be nice to hold the moral high ground, but often it isn't the most productive place to stand. It can easily just result in a large gap in communication.

[BonnieG2010]

Oh. ok.
you were worried about judgement. I understand that.

But, you see, this is not a courtroom, we do not sentence people. Neither for life nor for one day.

I don't know who you think is being superficial and, if you don't mind, i don't care in the least.
I did not judge anyone. I gave my opinion

[allimsaying]

Just me, but, I find when I think badly of others, it makes me feel badly.

[BonnieG2010]

Originally Posted by allimsaying

Just me, but, I find when I think badly of others, it makes me feel badly.

I felt that way too. But it was just because i wasn't strong enough to face the truth.

You know, there is really good and bad in people and recognizing it can help us make the right choice for ourselves.

Just yesterday a young guy set fire to his 15 yo girlfriend just because she said no to him.
Should we think well of him? should we take care of his personal troubles and forgive him before he's gone to jail or do we need to know that these things are VERY wrong and that this guy should be treated and helped to make him realize what he has just done?

[allimsaying]

None of us are 'bad'. We cant be judged by our thoughts, only our actions. Harming others to any degree leaves a trail. Im trying not to let a seed of bitterness grow for myself.

I just think we need to know these things are very wrong without making a judgement of the person who's done them. If we can, we should try to prevent the 'bad' things from happening with education. That slows the cycle of violence. Its not that easy and there would be many more details.

I dont think bad of people for thinking bad. That makes me feel bad too. I wasnt that strong not long ago either. Im still not sometimes. It makes me feel better to think good thoughts about people, like if they are 'bad' now, they can always change. Thats just Ive decided to do for myself after feeling bad for so long.

I'm sorry it didn't go the way you had hoped. There's nothing quite as humiliating as having a heart felt apology thrown back in your face. When that happens to me, the important thing to remember is my intent. I don't necessarily apologize to someone to make them feel better, even though I'm always glad when it does. I apologize to them to make me feel better. To clean my side of the street so to speak. It seems you have done that and have nothing more to regret. Swine or not swine really doesn't matter as long as you've owned your part in the whole situation and now you can move forward.

BTW, your artrox are awesome!

[seeker1950]

Well..I didn't post about this get people into disagreements.

Inedible said: "Before we can properly evaluate his response, it would be necessary to read the letter you sent to him - and in the context of knowing what happened between the two of you. It sounds like you still hold him in contempt. You wrote him a letter to let him know how you really feel. Maybe he got the message just fine."

So, by your standards, I should not have posted my feelings and thoughts here at all without also posting the letter I sent to this man? "You wrote him a letter to let him know how you really feel. Maybe he got the message just fine." For what it's worth, I wrote him a kind letter. I didn't have to do that, and his response was rude, not worthy of the effort I went to composing my heartfelt thoughts. Sorry, no, I'm not going to post the letter here for your voyeuristic pleasure. Your comments are inappropriate. You know nothing about me or my feelings.

[healingme4me]

I took the swine/pearl reference not so much that she was calling her friend a swine, but the expression of the whole experience. Maybe the experience was swine, not the person.

I didn't see this as anyone being 'completely' in the right or wrong. But as a healing journey, she went through, so to speak.

A heartfelt letter, that's what she posted about. It came with a negative response, that in turn led her to realize, that rekindling that friendship wasn't in her best interest, was how I took this original posting.

In sharing this, I found it spoke to me, and seemed to speak to others.

There are some of us, here, who have had that old relationship, come back to the surface. And had to make amends with our pasts and present in some way, shape or form.

I found it very mature and adult of her to write a heartfelt letter. And though the outcome wasn't to be desired, she was courageous enough to share this experience, for the sake of sharing.

Originally Posted by Inedible

Not exactly. I am saying that it would be fairly ... superficial ... for us all to assume that Seeker1950 is completely in the right and that her ex really is swine. In the absence of complete information none of us here is qualified to judge.

It may be nice to hold the moral high ground, but often it isn't the most productive place to stand. It can easily just result in a large gap in communication.

[seeker1950]

Thank you healingtime4me...
"Pearls before swine" is really just the metaphor for how much time I've wasted accommodating men who didn't appreciate my devotion, love and efforts.
My upbringing was one in which I never felt worthy, always striving for acceptance and approval. This translated into my romantic relationships as well. I have always marveled at women who get exactly what they want...the big diamond ring, the devoted husband, the big house. I always felt I should work and contribute...and I did! Even with this fella to whom I wrote the "amends" letter, there was the element of my not doing "enough."
Since we have communicated off and on for several years now, I thought it appropriate to tell him how things had transpired with me, why I was as I was...then, and how I've evolved.
I'm not going to lose any sleep over his non-response. Nor am I going to go into detail about how he has insulted me in the past. A healthier person would have never engaged in this most recent contact with him.
This is just my own accommodating nature surfacing once again. Time to let that part of myself go, and focus on healthier issues!

[Inedible]

Originally Posted by seeker1950

For what it's worth, I wrote him a kind letter. I didn't have to do that, and his response was rude, not worthy of the effort I went to composing my heartfelt thoughts. Sorry, no, I'm not going to post the letter here for your voyeuristic pleasure. Your comments are inappropriate. You know nothing about me or my feelings.

You are right that I don't know what happened or what kind of a letter you wrote. I know that to "cast pearls before swine" is a Biblical reference. It is usually used by someone who is in the business of trying to change other people, and finding their efforts are not appreciated.

One of the criticisms against the communication style that men tend to prefer is that it has a focus on identifying a problem and solving it. Some women tend to do the same thing. I have read that often women prefer to discuss how the problem made them feel, with the focus on being told that their listeners understand how they feel. In general I tend to be one of those people who jump to diagnosing a problem and looking for solutions with only the most cursory attention to the feelings involved - which are at most only symptoms of the main issue.

[Perna]

I'm sorry he responded so poorly; it would have been nice to have received a reply that was at least neutral, to feel like one's effort over the years was not wholly a waste of one's time and things had changed from one's callow youthfulness. I think the "pearls before swine" image is quite appropriate to your story given the actual reference text (Matthew 7:6); you cast, it was trampled underfoot and he turned to rip you to shreds. . .again.

[lynn P.]

Originally Posted by seeker1950

I've been communicating for some time now...on a superficial level, with a man with whom I was involved with as a young woman in college. I guess you could say I treated him badly, but, in fact, the man was, and is, very shallow. I don't know why I've felt the need to communicate with him, but yesterday, I sent him a heartfelt letter trying to "make amends" for the bad experience we had together. Since we've communicated for quite some time now, I thought this heartfelt letter would elicit a response that was equally responsive. Instead, it was abrupt, rude and dismissive of my attempt at amends. It leaves me feeling this was "pearls before swine."
I didn't have to do this...write a heartfelt letter. It was actually generous
on my part. Since receiving his curt response, I've deleted him from all my contacts. If I've learned anything from a lifetime of abuse, it is to avoid such.
So...none of you have to respond to this. I'm just ranting!
Patty

Sorry this interaction upset you. You're my friend so I don't want to make it worse, but I have a couple things to hopefully make you see this more objectively. After going through significant pain the last few years, I've learned to pay attention to my own ego and reel in my expectations of others.

Did you feel he was shallow before his response?

I guess you could say I treated him badly

Could it be, he's not in a position to offer forgiveness or he could have a hard time dealing with his feelings? We can't guarantee a certain response from others.

Another comment here is confusing -

I didn't have to do this...write a heartfelt letter. It was actually generous
on my part.

You got upset with him for not giving you the right response. A true apology still stands even if its rejected. He could be a guy who struggles with awkward feelings. It would be easier not to assume he was being mean. Even if he couldn't accept the letter, its his choice, since you felt you didn't treat him the best in the past. Maybe he needed time to sort out his response or didn't know what to say. I say all this with kindness.