[mojo321]

I am realizing, although I've know for quite some time deep down, that body size and shape matter when forming friendships with people of the same sex, but not when forming friendships with people of the opposite sex. HOW INTERESTING IS THAT!!!

I am 5'6", athletic, and an all around fun guy. Everyone at works loves working with me. But the guys are all 4" to 10" taller than me. As a result, we don't hang out. There are some that I KNOW are not as "in" as I am, but then I come to work on Monday, and they are talking about something they did over the weekend. I just laugh at the story, and don't put any guilt on them or anything. They have no idea that I would have liked to be included.

I now know, it is due to my height. No, it's not in my head. My emails, text messages, etc all point to great friendships. But when a 5'-6" guy walks along side a 6'1" guy, it is just odd and uncomfortable for some reason. That's why groups of friends gravitate together based on looks and physical size and shape.

The part I find really interesting is, DATING doesn't seem to follow this trend. Anyway, I just thought I would blog about it here.

[KingMarley]

I disagree. I think that if you are open minded it does not matter if your social circle is different than you. It is a bias in our minds placed there by the society that we have been raised in. Notice how children will play with whomever until society interjects and tells them that they should play with others like them. I am the same height and my best friend as a child was the complete opposite, 6'2 and twice my size. We were best friends because we did not care what others thought about us.

Sorry, I disagree too... I've always been taller than all my friends growing up, and height or size never was an issue, they just used to moan that I walked too quick. Thinking about other friends I have, one chap who is only a little taller than you has loads and loads of friends, all heights and shapes, and all different backgrounds.

Originally Posted by mojo321

They have no idea that I would have liked to be included.

Then ask them if you can join in one weekend or come up with an event that they may like and suggest it to them. You may just have your theory questioned!

[scorpiosis37]

Originally Posted by mojo321

I am realizing, although I've know for quite some time deep down, that body size and shape matter when forming friendships with people of the same sex, but not when forming friendships with people of the opposite sex. HOW INTERESTING IS THAT!!!

I am 5'6", athletic, and an all around fun guy. Everyone at works loves working with me. But the guys are all 4" to 10" taller than me. As a result, we don't hang out. There are some that I KNOW are not as "in" as I am, but then I come to work on Monday, and they are talking about something they did over the weekend. I just laugh at the story, and don't put any guilt on them or anything. They have no idea that I would have liked to be included.

I now know, it is due to my height. No, it's not in my head. My emails, text messages, etc all point to great friendships. But when a 5'-6" guy walks along side a 6'1" guy, it is just odd and uncomfortable for some reason. That's why groups of friends gravitate together based on looks and physical size and shape.

The part I find really interesting is, DATING doesn't seem to follow this trend. Anyway, I just thought I would blog about it here.

This simply isn't true. I teach Cultural Studies and if one of my students tried to make this argument in the classroom, I would work through their hypothesis with them until they were able to disprove it. As a society, we do have cultural prejudices around appearance-- and it is true that we often tend to be drawn to others who we think are attractive (attractive being an artificial, socially constructed set of characteristics). However, there is no natural, innate, or scientific ground upon which these cultural prejudices are built. And, more significantly, just because cultural prejudices exist does not mean that they determine our behavior or define our relationships. Similarly, to say "height matters among same-sex friends but not different-sex friends" is just silly. It's the same kind of stereotypical pseudo-science that tells us that "women are this way" and "men are that way." It simply isn't true; it just perpetuates stereotypes. Sometimes, height or size can be one (of many) things that people have in common and therefore helps draw them together, but it is by no means a prominent or determining factor. For instance, just because I am thin, does that mean I only have thin friends? No, of course not. And, since I'm short, does that mean I only have short friends? No, of course not. I'm a woman, I'm 5'4,'' and my best female friend is 6'2''. At work, the short people do not segregate themselves from the tall people. Think of all the ways in which we are similar and/or dissimilar from others. If we were to segregate ourselves by height, body size, race, and class-- oy, how would that even work? I'm white, thin, short, and middle class-- do I fit in more with my Indian, thin, tall, and middle-class co-worker or my white, short, overweight and working-class co-worker? It would be a ****-show trying to sort based on all of these categories that segregate us into "like" groups.

In reality, in my workplace, there's a core group of us that hang out (of all different heights and body sizes) and a couple of people who don't necessarily fit in, due to personality differences. For instance, there is one woman (also 5'4'', also thin) who is just really stressed out, really insecure, and on the verge of a panic attack most of the time. We've invited her to group events a few times, but it's difficult to have a good time with her because she's constantly on edge and constantly seeking reassurance that we "don't hate her." This has nothing to do with her height or body size-- or other demographic factors. It's because she carries a lot of stress and fear that makes socializing with her very tiresome for the rest of us. In general, what makes people click-- or not-- is so much more complicated than height or body size.

If your real issue is that you don't fit in and aren't part of the "group" with the other guys at work, I think it might be helpful to look at it from other angles. Do you share the same interests as these guys? Do you typically do the same kinds of things on the weekends? Are you values and attitudes about life similar? Do your personalities mesh? Are you talkative and do you contribute to conversations at work? Do you laugh at each others' jokes at work? Do you exhibit confidence or do you come across as insecure or awkward? Have there been other times in your life when you haven't fit in with the group? Has this happened a lot to you, or is this a unique situation for you?

It's also the case that, sometimes, fitting in with a particular group just isn't meant to be. For whatever reason, sometimes we just don't fit in-- and it doesn't mean there is anything wrong with us-- or them. It just means we don't click. But, there will be other times, and other groups, with which we do click.

Originally Posted by mojo321

I am realizing, although I've know for quite some time deep down, that body size and shape matter when forming friendships with people of the same sex, but not when forming friendships with people of the opposite sex. HOW INTERESTING IS THAT!!!

I am 5'6", athletic, and an all around fun guy. Everyone at works loves working with me. But the guys are all 4" to 10" taller than me. As a result, we don't hang out. There are some that I KNOW are not as "in" as I am, but then I come to work on Monday, and they are talking about something they did over the weekend. I just laugh at the story, and don't put any guilt on them or anything. They have no idea that I would have liked to be included.

I now know, it is due to my height. No, it's not in my head. My emails, text messages, etc all point to great friendships. But when a 5'-6" guy walks along side a 6'1" guy, it is just odd and uncomfortable for some reason. That's why groups of friends gravitate together based on looks and physical size and shape.

The part I find really interesting is, DATING doesn't seem to follow this trend. Anyway, I just thought I would blog about it here.

What i find particularly jarring about this post is the amount of assumptions made not only towards others but towards yourself. You say your athletic, great, fun to work with, other's aren't as cool - in whose opinion? I'm not denying you don't have great qualities - we all do. I feel however that this is an attitude issue, maybe your co-workers see you as arrogant? Perhaps they feel you think they're above them by not being more assertive in going out with them? I agree it's an awkward thing to try and 'smoothly' tag along but if they go out to eat or maybe watch a game or something why not just say; Oh man i love the _____ they've been doing great this season i'm down to watch it. Or; you're grabbing a bite to eat? Cool i'm starved let's go.

It's about being confident yet endearing enough to make other's warm to you - not everyone has it and some more than others but it's definitely achievable. Remember also that groups of friends, especially men it seems, like to capitalize on their friends lesser traits in funny ways. It's like a bonding ritual. So you'll be the short one in their group - what about the one with the secret love of Elvis music or the one who spent most of his savings pimping out his car like a 16 year old?

Nobody's perfect.

I think you're just trying to overcompensate by using your height as a means of avoiding more core self esteem issues. These can be helped, but in the short term maybe just biting the bullet and going for it might pay off?

I disagree too. I don't know where you got these assumptions from.

By the way I'm 6'2 and never had anyone complained that my height made them uncomfortable. If anything, they are amazed by my height. I've also been hit on by men that are not as tall as me. I don't know where you getting these assumptions from.

[Odee]

My boyfriend is 5'5", that's half an inch shorter than me. I'll admit, I love that I am in a relationship with someone who is always eye level with me, rather than having to crane my neck up every time I look at my BF. For that reason, being attracted to someone of a similar height was very beneficial. This has never been a turn off. However, he has plenty of tall friends as well as slightly taller ones. (And by tall, I am talking about the tall and lanky AND the tall and built .... and tall and very wide. Some very large people.)

My BF is TIRED of short jokes. For that I feel bad for him. However, he obviously has friends, and cracks plenty of tall jokes against them as well. Although he has to deal with teasing, he is never rejected.

I have friends of all statures. Good friends are good friends, there is no fat friends or thin friends or short friends ... just good or bad friends. You don't have to be ATTRACTED to your friends, so I happily associate with anyone, even if it's a face only a mother could love. Yeah, it's weird to be dwarfed, but I am sure there are other reasons other than your height effecting friendship. Others here are correct, you seem to be making inappropriate assumptions.

[Odee]

Originally Posted by bohemiangirl85

By the way I'm 6'2 and never had anyone complained that my height made them uncomfortable. If anything, they are amazed by my height. I've also been hit on by men that are not as tall as me. I don't know where you getting these assumptions from.

I've always heard that men don't like tall girls -- it makes them feel 'less manly.' However, ALL men I have asked, of short and tall heights, have all told me that no, they don't care. Girls only loving tall men or men only loving short women seems to be some double standard started out of no where and passed on like it's common sense that somehow no one really relates to.

People might "design" mates with perfect qualities and a certain height, and this may be how the "vastly preferred" heights stem from, but in the end, height is not what determines relationships.

I love tall women, AND strong women. I'm not lesbian, but I love "Amazons." LOL. So, GO TALL GURL!!!!

Originally Posted by Odee

I've always heard that men don't like tall girls -- it makes them feel 'less manly.' However, ALL men I have asked, of short and tall heights, have all told me that no, they don't care. Girls only loving tall men or men only loving short women seems to be some double standard started out of no where and passed on like it's common sense that somehow no one really relates to.

People might "design" mates with perfect qualities and a certain height, and this may be how the "vastly preferred" heights stem from, but in the end, height is not what determines relationships.

I love tall women, AND strong women. I'm not lesbian, but I love "Amazons." LOL. So, GO TALL GURL!!!!

LO, you're right. I think if you have confidence in yourself, it really doesn't matter how tall you are. If you like a person and they like you back, that's all that matter.

[shortandcute]

Are you sure its because of your height?

[hamster-bamster]

It is a different experience to hug and hold a man who is only slightly taller than me (I have never been with anybody shorter than me) and a man who is much taller than me. Neither is better than the other - they are different.

I bet with friendships it is the same - people are different, and it is OK.

Don Quixote and Sancho Panza are probably the most famous pair of male buddies, one of them tall and the other short.

If Miguel de Cervantes wrote it this way, he must have had good reasons to write it this way. So fear not and try to explore what else might explain the dynamic at work.

[growlithing]

I'm in between 6'1 and 6'2 and all of my other female friends are around 5'3. I have two that are about 5'9. My friendship with them have everything to do with similar senses of humor and nothing to do with their height.

I have a slight preference towards taller men but it's no more than a slight preference. It doesn't mean that I'm not attracted to a guy who is 5'6 solely because of his height.

[mojo321]

Wow, so many responses. Where to begin...OK, I did make quite a few assumptions. I think it has a lot to do with being a guy. I also think that all of the responses that are disagreeing with me are disagreeing with me in theory more so than in reality. We all want to THINK that we don't neglect people that are dissimilar to ourselves, but it happens.

KING MARLEY-->
I disagree. I think that if you are open minded it does not matter if your social circle is different than you. It is a bias in our minds placed there by the society that we have been raised in. Notice how children will play with whomever until society interjects and tells them that they should play with others like them. I am the same height and my best friend as a child was the complete opposite, 6'2 and twice my size. We were best friends because we did not care what others thought about us.

The key phrase here is "if you are open minded it does not matter..." I seem to see a lot of people around me that are not open minded. Is it me that is not open minded? Is it me that is causing the "uncomfortable feeling"? I don't think so. I played golf in a scramble last week with my church. Afterwards, I saw a group of about 12 people chatting. I knew 1 of them from 12 years of school together. I walked right up to him, and said, "How did you do?" The group got quiet. He "said, well we had fun!" I smiled and said "Ha ha, yeah, I won't be joining the tour anytime soon. But I only lost 3 balls, so that is a good day!" The group started slowly talking, quieter this time. The guy I knew laughed, but didn't say anything else. He started paying attention to the group, rejoining their conversation. Didn't introduce me to anyone. I stood there for like 20 seconds, feeling like an idiot, then I said to that guy, "See ya' later!". He said "OK, see ya' Mark!" We were both all smiles the whole time. But I got into my car and was thinking, dang, what the hell is wrong with me?

Spockette-->You say your athletic, great, fun to work with, other's aren't as cool - in whose opinion? I'm not denying you don't have great qualities - we all do. I feel however that this is an attitude issue, maybe your co-workers see you as arrogant?

No, I'm not arrogant. Those are just my positive affirmations. I honestly don't see anything repulsive about myself. That's all I was trying to say. I sure don't walk around with THAT attitude on my sleeve.

Perhaps they feel you think they're above them by not being more assertive in going out with them?

You may be on to something there. I'm going to give that some real thought and observation. Thanks!

It's about being confident yet endearing enough to make other's warm to you - not everyone has it and some more than others but it's definitely achievable.

That's the thing, I really honestly feel that I do have that and that everyone seems receptive to it, and it seems to be a mutual respect and all that stuff!!! I really feel (sometimes) like when you whittle away all of the issues, my size is the only thing remaining! But like I said, your point of not doing any of the "inviting" myself, I have alienated myself on the "after-work stuff" is a point well taken.

Bohemiangirl-->By the way I'm 6'2 and never had anyone complained that my height made them uncomfortable. If anything, they are amazed by my height. I've also been hit on by men that are not as tall as me. I don't know where you getting these assumptions from

But you DO have to admit, when you see a group of jocks, they are all jocks. When you see a group of overweight people, they are all overweight. Tall folks hang out with tall folks. Oh sure, there is always the exception. But I am talking about the extreme ends of the bell curve. We do it to ourselves. We sort ourselves. And why wouldn't we? Nobody enjoys being the oddball.

ODEE-->My BF is TIRED of short jokes. For that I feel bad for him. However, he obviously has friends, and cracks plenty of tall jokes against them as well. Although he has to deal with teasing, he is never rejected.

Yeah. but tall jokes are like rich jokes, or good looking jokes. They don't hurt. They are just making fun of something that is a good thing. Short jokes hurt because they are hurtful deep down to the person that is short. Now, if he replaces his tall joke with a joke about the tall guys crooked teeth, now we have a comparison that makes sense. These people think it is OK to make short jokes, but if someone returns fire with something that the tall guy is truly self-conscious about, everyone would be like, "dude, that was just mean." Well, I'm here to tell you, short jokes are mean.

Also, I want to point out that I do have friends. My best friends are those that I have had since highschool. I guess this thread was really started in the interest of making NEW friends.

AND NOW THE BIG ONE

SCORPIOSIS37-->This simply isn't true. I teach Cultural Studies and if one of my students tried to make this argument in the classroom, I would work through their hypothesis with them until they were able to disprove it.

First of all, I think I tried to put way too much into the OP, so I like that you started to break it down into pieces.

As a society, we do have cultural prejudices around appearance-- and it is true that we often tend to be drawn to others who we think are attractive (attractive being an artificial, socially constructed set of characteristics).

Yes. You just agreed with me. Your following comments that will disagree with me are utilizing the big, typical center of a standard bell curve, not the individuals that are at the outskirts of the bell curve. For those individuals, your statement "As a society, we do have cultural prejudices around appearance", kicks in to a much greater extent, that perhaps you have to experience firsthand to understand. For example, if you are 2 standard deviations away from the mean in the category of height, weight, or "attractiveness", then "cultural prejudices around appearance" has a greater effect on the formation of friendships. If you are within one standard deviation of the mean, then you probably don't notice its effect at all, if it even exists.

Similarly, to say "height matters among same-sex friends but not different-sex friends" is just silly.

Yes, it is silly, I agree. But I do notice, that women find me attractive and get along great with me. I've had some say, "You would get along with my husband. He played soccer in college (or some other common interest)". Then we get together at a picnic, and the guy is like 10" taller and 230 lbs. As hard as we try to get along, we both know it is awkward. So, it isn't THAT silly of an observation. Big guys will date anyone, tall or short. Short guys will stick to a maximum of maybe 2" taller in their girlfriends. Short girls will date anyone, tall or short. Tall girls will stick to a minimum of maybe 3" shorter in their boyfriends. It's a real thing, you HAVE to admit. I am just saying, if it is a real thing for dating, then it isn't a stretch to consider there to be some variant of it in male same sex friendship circles.

All of that said, I think you all are right that I made too many assumptions. But I do believe there is some truth to my comments. Albeit, it is unfair for me to characterize it as a universal rule. But just go into the corporate world and survey as many men under 5'-7" as you can find to see if they feel they have to compensate for their height to get ahead, and they will tell you a resounding yes. (There may have even been a study on it.) Is it wrong, again, to make the stretch to consider there to be some variant of this in male, same-sex friendship circles?

[mojo321]

The more that I think about it, the more I think I am wanting to focus this on the male friendship circle. I think the part about the short jokes has me thinking about bullying and pecking order. Then I think about the fact that short people feel as though they have to compensate in other ways in corporate America.

Here's my new theory: Men have some sick desire to establish a pecking order, and to be as high as possible on that pecking order. Even those at the bottom crave to be higher. Call it competitive spirit, but that's just a nice way of putting it. A few will ignore the pecking order all together and just find inner peace. I really feel like I have done that in my life. But now, my son is going through what all I went through as a kid, and it is stirring up those old competitive feelings again. (I have another thread on bullying around here somewhere). And these feelings are making me take notice that I really don't have much of a social life, which makes no sense to me considering how well I get along with everyone!

But my point is, there is a some sort of deep sub-conscious "scoring" method. This explains why kids are bullied. And the bullying continues into adulthood with "harmless" short jokes. Or fat jokes. Or whatever. Then to take the power away from the jokers, we self-deprecate with our OWN short jokes, before they get the chance. That only scores you down by a half a point instead of a full point. Then to get the points back, we try to over achieve. We try to be a ladies man. We try to get rich. We try to have better stuff, or go on more vacations. We tease someone for being too tall, which doesn't really get any points back, but it gets you some partial points for being a "good sport", or for having a good sense of humor.

It is all a need to establish yourself higher on the ladder. It comes from childhood. Someone with multiple strikes against them are destined to be bullied. Those with all winning characteristics will surely be very successful. And those in the middle will learn to play the game, pushing people down to elevate themselves, while simultaneously networking with those higher than they are.

And specifically, if one of your strikes is that you are short, because height is a physical characteristic,you will overcompensate by being overly aggressive, physically. This is the "little guy" syndrome. I have always prided myself on not having "little guy" syndrome. But I totally get why it happens. They HAVE to compensate for the points that others zap them for being easy targets. Unfortunately, it usually turns into OVER-compensating.

Originally Posted by mojo321

The key phrase here is "if you are open minded it does not matter..." I seem to see a lot of people around me that are not open minded. Is it me that is not open minded? Is it me that is causing the "uncomfortable feeling"? I don't think so. I played golf in a scramble last week with my church. Afterwards, I saw a group of about 12 people chatting. I knew 1 of them from 12 years of school together. I walked right up to him, and said, "How did you do?" The group got quiet. He "said, well we had fun!" I smiled and said "Ha ha, yeah, I won't be joining the tour anytime soon. But I only lost 3 balls, so that is a good day!" The group started slowly talking, quieter this time. The guy I knew laughed, but didn't say anything else. He started paying attention to the group, rejoining their conversation. Didn't introduce me to anyone. I stood there for like 20 seconds, feeling like an idiot, then I said to that guy, "See ya' later!". He said "OK, see ya' Mark!" We were both all smiles the whole time. But I got into my car and was thinking, dang, what the hell is wrong with me?

You don't mention anything about people's height in this - so perhaps you are unaware of giving off some sort of vibe? Some people can just seem a little 'off' tho there's no good reason for it. Am sure you've experienced it yourself about others and although you can't put your finger on it, you want to keep a distance? Or is there any chance that someone has said something bad about you? It's just these things or something else that make more sense to me than it being about height.

I am not trying to make you feel dreadful, it's just if there is something that perhaps can be improved then perhaps it's better to try, rather than blame everything on your height. And although you are right about people being attracted to like, and we don't always understand difference or it makes us nervous, I really do not think that height would be one of those things to make people unsettled. It's normally a race or culture thing I find - sadly I may add.

[scorpiosis37]

[QUOTE=mojo321;3171544]

I played golf in a scramble last week with my church. Afterwards, I saw a group of about 12 people chatting. I knew 1 of them from 12 years of school together. I walked right up to him, and said, "How did you do?" The group got quiet. He "said, well we had fun!" I smiled and said "Ha ha, yeah, I won't be joining the tour anytime soon. But I only lost 3 balls, so that is a good day!" The group started slowly talking, quieter this time. The guy I knew laughed, but didn't say anything else. He started paying attention to the group, rejoining their conversation. Didn't introduce me to anyone. I stood there for like 20 seconds, feeling like an idiot, then I said to that guy, "See ya' later!". He said "OK, see ya' Mark!" We were both all smiles the whole time. But I got into my car and was thinking, dang, what the hell is wrong with me?

I'm sorry that this happened to you; it never feels good to get the brush off in social situations. But now that you see the same thing happening at church and at work, maybe you can understand that there's something going on in the way you interact with others. I'm sure that it's easier to write it off as "they don't want to be my friend because I'm short," than it is to admit that it has something to do with your personality, social skills, or the way you approach others. The way you describe the situation above sounds awkward-- if everyone goes quiet when you walk up, that's usually a sign that you've interrupted something. Then, when you continue to stand there, even after everyone has gotten quieter and then the person you approached has rejoined the conversation, it makes things uncomfortable. These kinds of things don't happen because someone is short; they happen because you aren't attune to social signals.


But you DO have to admit, when you see a group of jocks, they are all jocks. When you see a group of overweight people, they are all overweight. Tall folks hang out with tall folks.

The problem with your analysis is that you are assuming everyone only belongs to one group-- jocks are only jocks, tall people are only tall, overweight people are only overweight. In reality, people are a multitude of different things. All of these "categories" you are talking about overlap and we belong to an endless number of different categories. Things, in reality, can never be as isolated as you're trying to make them. If the jocks hang out with the jocks, then the short and tall jocks, the skinny and overweight jocks, the jocks of all different race, class, and ethnic backgrounds-- all hang out together. And then this would refute your argument about height! If all jocks hang out together, than height wouldn't matter-- all the jocks, tall or short, would hang out together! Since you say you are athletic, then height shouldn't matter-- athletic people should stick together. Or, if you say, "no, athletic/jock doesn't matter, it's height" then ALL of the tall people should stick together. The tall jock, the tall businessman, the tall garbage collector, the tall artist, the tall goth kid, the tall foreign exchange student-- they should all automatically form a group because they're all tall. Of course, that's silly; the world doesn't work that way. There is a HUGE difference between saying "people hang out with others who they have things in common with" and saying "people hang out with each other because they are the same height." Of course, people need common ground in order to develop a friendship and enjoy spending time, doing activities together-- but what these things are that they have in common varies with each group. And it is rarely something as superficial as height that binds a whole group together. It is rarely just a physical characteristic; most often, it is shared interests, activities, life experiences, personality traits, sense of humor, and/or good conversation.

If anything, the reason you feel height is such a big issue is because it is something YOU feel insecure about. Maybe that is why you are sending the wrong vibes socially. Maybe you need to work on accepting your height, so it no longer feels like such a big deal to you?


If you are 2 standard deviations away from the mean in the category of height, weight, or "attractiveness", then "cultural prejudices around appearance" has a greater effect on the formation of friendships. If you are within one standard deviation of the mean, then you probably don't notice its effect at all, if it even exists.

You're forgetting about the most salient prejudices-- race, sexual orientation, class, and gender. With those categories, there aren't any "standard deviations" away from a norm. You are simply in the minority category. Since I do belong to two of those groups, I know what prejudice feels like-- and it's a lot worse than height.

Big guys will date anyone, tall or short. Short guys will stick to a maximum of maybe 2" taller in their girlfriends. Short girls will date anyone, tall or short. Tall girls will stick to a minimum of maybe 3" shorter in their boyfriends. It's a real thing, you HAVE to admit. I am just saying, if it is a real thing for dating, then it isn't a stretch to consider there to be some variant of it in male same sex friendship circles.

These rules are just silly. Many people fall within these norms, just by happenstance, but many also fall outside them. And, all of these rules assume that everyone is straight. What's your rule for how tall my girlfriend should be? I'm 5'4'' and I've dated women who are 5'1'' and women who are 5'11''. Height has never been a factor. My best friend is a gay man, 6'0'', and he's dated men from 5'6'' to 6'4.'' His male friends also fall within that height range. All of this focus on height overlooks all of the things that actually draw people to each other and make relationships last.

But just go into the corporate world and survey as many men under 5'-7" as you can find to see if they feel they have to compensate for their height to get ahead, and they will tell you a resounding yes.

Yes, and people of color have to work twice as hard to get ahead. Women have to work twice as hard to get ahead. People from disadvantaged backgrounds have to work twice as hard to get ahead. Gay/lesbian people have to work twice as hard to get ahead. The height of straight, white males is clearly not the most salient category. If you really feel that way, then you don't know what it is like to experience real prejudice.

Tall folks hang out with tall folks.

Majority of my friends are no where near my height. I actually know someone that is around your height and he hangs out with people that are taller than him. Friendships aren’t based on appearances. It’s based on common interests, and other things like humor and loyalty as an example.
Are you sure it's is has something do with height? You should ask why they never ask you to hang out. You won't know until you ask. Don't make assumptions because it may not be about your height. It could be your personality or attitude? I totally agree what [Spockette] wrote and do believe deep down you have some self-esteem issues.

But surely you realize the ultimate contradiction in your statement - if TALL people only hang out with other TALL people or OVERWEIGHT people with other OVERWEIGHT people or SMALL people with other SMALL people --- where are all the small people for YOU to be hanging out with?

You're arguments are strewn with gaping defects in logic (someone tell me the Star Trek episode in which that is said and i'll award 2 points). I think you realize this and despite all the explanations and justifications i think this is really, ultimately, a self esteem issue. You're entitled to opinions - as are we - but what would be the point in sounding off here if you weren't looking for some kind of support and or advice? If you have great traits, which no one is denying, then don't let a lack of confidence in yourself destroy your best chances at a social life. See a therapist, work on the issues as much as you feel you can yourself, and everyone here will be rooting for you. All the best.

[mojo321]

These rules are just silly. Many people fall within these norms, just by happenstance, but many also fall outside them.

Absolutely. But I disagree that it is just by happenstance. If that were true, there would be an equal distribution of tall girls married to husbands shorter than they. But that isn't true. It is skewed the way I described. I wasn't claiming "rules" for the whole population. I've stated that several times. They are "norms" that form from peoples inherent comfort zones.

Yes, and people of color have to work twice as hard to get ahead. Women have to work twice as hard to get ahead. People from disadvantaged backgrounds have to work twice as hard to get ahead. Gay/lesbian people have to work twice as hard to get ahead. The height of straight, white males is clearly not the most salient category. If you really feel that way, then you don't know what it is like to experience real prejudice

Oh, I never said ANYTHING about trying to get a height thing to compete against the "binary" A or B things like race, sex, sexual orientation....but the first word of your paragraph WAS "yes". So you understand. Albeit, you understand at a MUCH greater extent than my piddely little height problem. I totally get that. But that doesn't mean it isn't real.

I find it very interesting how much everyone wants to deny that height discrimination exists. Or obesity discrimination.

Heck, I'll admit it. I had a friend at a different job a few years back that was very obese. He had no friends and no plans for the weekend, ever. Everyone seemed to get along with him just fine. He would talk about the game last night, or whatever was in the news. But the obesity was always a bit of a hurdle for people to get "too connected" on a friendship level. People would hold back on letting him into their lives. Am I the only one honest enough to admit that horrible things like this happen, without blaming it on some personality issue of the dude?

Please know, that from the responses this thread has given me, I will seriously look inward for ways I can improve my social skills. But what I am talking about DOES exist, on some level, for some people all of the time, and for others, never. But it happens. I'm sorry if that is a painful message.

And it ISN'T as prevalent in society as racism, or sexism. I know that. But the tradeoff is, nobody believes it is a real thing.

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by mojo321

I find it very interesting how much everyone wants to deny that height discrimination exists. Or obesity discrimination.

And it ISN'T as prevalent in society as racism, or sexism. I know that. But the tradeoff is, nobody believes it is a real thing.

I do believe you. But only in theory.

In one of my previous places of employment, there was a very short guy. He was nerdy, lived with his parents even though he was 46 or 47, and had never been married. Very smart but not rounded (meaning - smart professionally and enjoyed math a lot, but had not read fiction), very together (perceptive, financially independent, hardworking, and nice), but - never married. So, there might have been issues.

there was also a very tall guy who rode his motorcycle to the office. He was tall and muscular and had a lot of "presence" in the room when he would walk in holding his huge helmet. He had a wife and a couple of children and was basically a successful male with a lot going for him.

When the shortest guy wanted to talk to the tallest guy and tried to get his attention, it did look awkward. Indeed.

But that was an extreme case - the shortest guy was very short, and the biker very tall.

You do not qualify to complain about being discriminated based on height - your height is sufficient for you to not feel the way you report feeling. Your case is not extreme. In other words, yes, it exists, but it should not affect you personally.

In terms of reality checking - there have been studies showing that tall guys enjoy premium wages. Look them up. So it does exist.

[mojo321]

Originally Posted by hamster-bamster

I do believe you. But only in theory.

You do not qualify to complain about being discriminated based on height - your height is sufficient for you to not feel the way you report feeling. Your case is not extreme. In other words, yes, it exists, but it should not affect you personally.

Point taken.

I'll look to myself for the issue. Thanks!

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by mojo321

I am 5'6", athletic, and an all around fun guy. Everyone at works loves working with me.

OK. So this is what I can tell you.

I am 5'5''.

When I was growing up, 5'5'' (165cm) was considered the IDEAL height for women, because the Venus in Le Louvre has that height.

Then all those changes happened with tall models and all of that.

But I still think that my height is ideal, due to having heard that for many years, prior to the onset of the tall model fashion trend.

Therefore, in my book, any man who is taller than me does not get to complain.

Shorter than me - surely I would feel empathy towards a man who is shorter than me if he reports feeling slighted or inadequate (that very short man in my prior place of employment was shorter than me).

But taller than me, even by just one inch, and you do not get to complain - you are taller than an average woman, and that should be good enough.

Sorry!

[mojo321]

Originally Posted by hamster-bamster

OK. So this is what I can tell you.

But I still think that my height is ideal, due to having heard that for many years, prior to the onset of the tall model fashion trend.

I actually quite enjoy my height for a lot of reasons. Mainly, my dexterity when I'm working on a roof, in the attic, under a car, on the water hear, etc...

And when I am alone with my family at family gatherings. We are like, 28 people! The men are all 5'5" to 6'0". The women are all 5'2" to 5'8". Nobody ever thinks a THING of it.

It's when you are the lone wolf in a sea of 6'+ that suddenly I feel out of place. It must just be in my own head I guess.

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by mojo321

I actually quite enjoy my height for a lot of reasons. Mainly, my dexterity when I'm working on a roof, in the attic, under a car, on the water hear, etc...

And when I am alone with my family at family gatherings. We are like, 28 people! The men are all 5'5" to 6'0". The women are all 5'2" to 5'8". Nobody ever thinks a THING of it.

It's when you are the lone wolf in a sea of 6'+ that suddenly I feel out of place. It must just be in my own head I guess.

It is in your own head.

Earlier on the thread you wrote about the bell curve.

True.

But you ARE still in the thick part of the bell curve.

You are not an oddball.

Maybe you need to do the following for your sense of self: find out if there is a sport that needs shorter men. Sort of the opposite of basketball. Maybe some martial arts require shorter men. For sure gymnasts tend to be athletic but not too tall.

And pursue this sport, to congregate with men your height.

Just to note that I do sympathize still.

Women have it easier - think of the word PETITE with all its positive connotations. My younger daughter is short (and benefits from her stature by being a competitive gymnast). Short and very athletic with well shaped legs. So I know it will be easier for her to be a short woman because the world is gentler towards women in that sense... much gentler. Tall women are like supermodels, and short women are petite. And medium height women like me just have it easy because everyone likes them - it is easy to be on the top part of the bell curve. For women, both extremes of the bell curve have highly positive connotations associated with them ("like a super mode" is highly positive, and "petite" is highly positive). Men do not get that luck!