How do I start this conversation?

So, to make a long story short, there was a guy I went on a date with a little while ago (at least I thought it was a date…I don't know anything about this stuff) that we both enjoyed and agreed to do something like that again…well we haven't. I was texting him, but I realized that he would never communicate with me unless I talked to him first. We wouldn't have even gone on the date (or whatever it was) if I hadn't asked, suggested what we would do, etc. it wouldn't have happened. I'm actually quite surprised that it DID happen. I mean, him showing up meant something, right?

Anyway, so at some point, I sort of got disheartened by always having to text him and half the time him not responding anyway so I sort of stopped texting him…I feel like I really messed up, but being the one who always initiated everything was really making my anxiety act up. But I just want to talk about it and we both seem to communicate best in person…but how do I start a conversation like that?

I'm well aware that I'm not "owed" an explanation and if he doesn't want to talk to me, fair enough. But for once in my life, I want to try and not run away. Especially because I actually feel safe around him (never thought I would feel safe around a guy without other people around) and I didn't feel anxious except for the first 15 minutes or so of the "date" (or whatever). Which is amazing since I haven't known him for that long.

You're probably thinking, if he never contacted you again, he's obviously not interested! Well, that's possible but it's also possible he struggles with anxiety himself and maybe he doesn't feel comfortable taking the lead at all. It's also possible that I may have said something about me that was negative or implied something bad about myself and didn't fully explain because I caught myself talking about it in the middle of talking about it. I'm just used to being around people that I can be completely open and honest with I guess. I should have known better, but of course I didn't.

So, how do I start a conversation like that without being confrontational? I know the whole "we need to talk" thing is the worst possible way to start a conversation…I just don't know how else to do it. The next time I'll see him in person will be at a rehearsal and of course I can't talk to him during the rehearsal, especially since we really shouldn't be in a room full of people to talk…so what do I say? Do I ask him to talk to me afterwards before time via text or do I ask that day?

Um... You know about that little thing you just did here? Do you know what I'm talking about? You know, that part where you say what you're thinking and feeling? THAT part? I've heard tell that if you want to talk to someone and have a serious conversation, sometimes you just gotta put yourself out there and see what happens... just so long as you are being genuine... that if you're feeling unsure or uncertain about what you're doing or what you want... then, that's ok. There's a good chance that HE'S feeling sorta the same way! I dunno... I think I've always found it's best to be real and genuine and honest about letting someone see you for who you really are and how you're really feeling at the time.

So... SEE! If you were sitting here in front of me right now we'd be having a conversation about how you can start a conversation with someone you're interested in. It's kind of amazing how that worked...

Oh... one other thing? If you REALLY want to start or have a conversation? You might want to think about losing the texting. Yeah... 86 it completely. There is no nuance in texting and it's too darned easy to misunderstand or misinterpret what is being "communicated". Gosh! You might just have to do it the old-fashioned way!! You know... talk with them face-to-face!!! WHOA... !

I don't know about them newfangled texting contraption thingys anywayz... they just ain't natural, I tell ya... ain't natural!

Dan

Best wishes to you............. I am probably the WORST person for advice on relationships.

but - I would think it would be easy at Christmas time to simply send a text/note/whatever saying

"Merry Christmas - have not heard from you in awhile - I hope everything is okay with you"

Good luck - I hope it turns out the way you want.

*Hugs to you

danvb-

Well, texting wasn't really my idea—that was how he chose to communicate with me and I just thought that that was what he was comfortable with. I'd rather talk to him face to face but we live almost an hour apart and during the winter, it's too dangerous to travel where we live a lot of the time. I was just trying to come up with an alternative mode of communication to use in between times we could see each other. I suggested other forms of communication but he seemed rather adamant about keeping things the way they already were, so I respect that (even though I agree, texting isn't for conversations).

Also, to complicate things further, I will likely be getting my doctorate starting next fall and sometime in the near future he'll be getting his doctorate. And if there is something there between us (as in a relationship), at some point we may be on different sides of the country for all I know. I know, I know, that's thinking way into the future, but still…

Also, back to the actual conversation, if I say exactly how I feel, it tends to get me into trouble. That and I still don't know the best way to begin…if I say "we need to talk", then that seems to signify that they're in trouble, but I'm not mad—just confused. I'm afraid that without using the correct words to communicate how I feel, I will lose even the possibility for a friendship as I come across as…well, I don't even know how I come across. I just know that being open and honest is the ideal, but isn't a good idea with most people.

Useless Me-
That's actually pretty good advice…if I get my courage up, I may send him a message similar to that.

The "we need to talk" usually implies a serious conversation that is weightier. I agree that this is probably some line of text you should avoid at this point.. don't even bring it up. just let him know that you're interested in hearing from him. Sometimes I will send messages to friends out of the blue, I will just say "hope you're having a wonderful (day, night, weekend.. etc) Just thought I'd drop a line and let you know that you've crossed my mind. I'm here if you want to say hi (or something to that effect)." Its not pushy, it lets him know you thought of him and it opens the door to a reply without forcing anything on him. once the conversation is started you can bring up the more important things, but I don't think it's something you should focus on yet. It's all new and you dont' want to put too much pressure on this relationship. I know I'm terrible at this and I am convicting myself as I type.. because I break this rule all the time but I know still that it's not a good thing Anyway.. keep things light and let the conversation flow... get to know him and relax a little.

As for other methods because you can't see each other I suggest skype. Either for voice alone or voice and webcam so you could at least hear and possibly see each other. I don't do this often but this is something I think might work for you.

That's what I thought…about the "we need to talk" line. I also want to talk to him in person rather by text etc. Just letting him know I'm interested in hearing from him isn't effective (or it scares him off, I don't know). I've already tried that, but I still have to start every conversation that isn't person to person. In fact, he'll only start a conversation if I'm already close enough to start a conversation with me, otherwise I approach him. I just want to know if there's any interest at all or if we're just friends…so I can move on and like someone else if I ever find someone else that I feel safe around (well, for guys anyway). If I text him, he could just ignore it/not reply to it. In person at least he's more likely to provide some sort of answer. Or we can have some sort of conversation about it…

I don't want to put pressure on the "relationship" either (there is no relationship really), but if I don't, it will never go anywhere—not even as a friendship. It's too stressful and unrewarding to do all the initiating. So I just want to know if there's anything there or if there's anything possible there and if there is, I want to communicate to him that there needs to be more of a balance between who initiates conversation. If he has no feelings for me whatsoever, then he has completely led me on, and I would like to just get closure so I can like someone else.

Also, I've asked about Skype several times. I don't think it's going to happen. He says something about it not working or he doesn't remember his username/password. He probably just doesn't want to use Skype.

And if he DOESN'T like me that way (and if it's been clear to him the whole time), he may be afraid to tell me. I did mention during a conversation that I have a temper and will unleash hell if provoked. I just thought it was a fair warning in case he saw me get mad at someone else or something else (not necessarily him) and thought that I needed to be hospitalized or something because I'm always so "whatever" about everything. That and I'm more in control of my random outbursts of extreme anger. I guess I should have explained that it was more in control (probably because of meds) and that I don't mad unless someone is messing with me or my own with deliberate, malicious intent. If it's not clearly on purpose, I don't think I'd get any more than annoyed, if even that. I'd probably just shrug and go, "It's cool dude, $@!% happens" and go on with my day. Or release my anger towards something else (like a video game) instead of that person because there's no reason to get mad if they did something by accident (except if someone causes a car accident or breaks one of my instruments, I may be legitimately pissed at that point even if it was an accident).

Anyway, it's difficult for me to explain anything without writing a novel about it (if you can't tell from my posts) and it's even worse when speaking to someone because I tend to forget important bits that would make everything actually make sense to people. That and I can be difficult to understand when I talk because I can't remember the names of people, places, or things often. That, plus I talk too fast and I have a slight speech impediment. When I write posts/e-mails etc., I have a dictionary and a thesaurus handy (and google) so I can remember everything that I can't and actually sound like I know what I'm talking about. I don't know if it's nerves or some sort of ADD or something, but I'm not as good at verbal communication than written communication. But I can't say everything I want to say via text for obvious reasons. I can't use e-mail because if he checks at all, it may be like once a week and then he doesn't reply unless reminded to.

Hey~ just thought I'd toss in my two cents...as you mentioned, you are both going to a rehearsal, so perhaps you could get a cup of something somewhere after, just to increase the number of times you've been together. A quick text saying just that, "You wanna go for pie after rehearsal?" Or Whatever you think would appeal to him.Then, if he doesn't answer, ask when you see him if he saw the text & "what do you think? Wanna go?"
I guess I wouldn't bring up too much regarding how you feel. Just be friendly, cool, interesting.
Do you remember that movie, "He's Just Not That Into You"? (cute movie) The message was that if a guy wants to see you, or call, or get together, he will make it happen.
I pretty much believe this to be true, without exception.
Throw it out there to get together after the event you will be mutually attending. His answer will guide you.

I.Am.The.End,

You said, "I just know that being open and honest is the ideal, but isn't a good idea with most people".

So... what you're saying is that you're OK with not being open and honest and genuine... and that you're OK being in a relationship with someone that isn't open and honest and genuine too...

And the reason for being that way is because being open and honest and genuine and being yourself represents some sort of unattainable ideal that just isn't a very good idea in the real world...

You reap what you sow... It's true. You get back what you put in.

If you think you can never be yourself with anyone, the person that you are will always be standing in the shadows, yearning for the sunlight... But, hey, being able to stand in the sun is just being unrealistic and stupid... so it's better and certainly much easier to continue standing in the shadows...

Right?

Dan

The one thing I can say to be honest is related to my last situation with a girl. I finally did put it out there and asked basically what you're saying about if you're just friends or not. Well, although it turned out badly for me, that's just because of the type of person she is and how she handled it, all in all though, it is better that I found out before I got anymore attached to her than I was at the time.

If you're having such difficulties with initiating and its' not changing, you might just put yourself out there and take that chance. I say that after your last post because it sounds like you're trying everything you can to get past this wall and he's not taking the "bait" (for lack of a better word).

If he seems to be afraid to say that's all he wants, if you're upfront and ask what you are to him.. and he doesn't answer you'll kind of have your answer either way. If He likes you for more than a friend and wants to see where it goes, even a shy guy will at least say something positive about it, and won't leave you hanging.

After all you've said, I think this is the best route, although I know it's not an easy thing to do.

You can pm me if you want also.
S4

Well, there's my answer then already, right? Is the same thing true for girls? Because there's been many people that I've liked over the years that I did NOTHING about whatsoever. What if he's shy or is afraid of rejection? Wouldn't that be an exception?

I mean, if there is absolutely no exception to that rule, then…

(Warning: the following will contain an insane amount of bitterness not directed towards you or anyone reading this post. ALSO MAY CONTAIN TRIGGERING THINGS…skip down to the asterisks to skip the possible triggering things and also to just get the summary of the following rant.)

…No one has liked me ever, at least not enough to actually try. Which means they're not interested if what you say is completely true. Well, definitely not male anyway. It's too bad I'm interested with being with a guy right now…as I'll never have that experience. I guess I'll just wait around until I become more interested in girls again.

What really bugs me is, sure, I used to look like a hideous troll, but I don't anymore. In nearly every place I go, I'm by far the best looking, most interesting, most intelligent person in the room or I'm pretty darn near the top.

But no matter what I do to improve myself as a person or improve my looks, it's NEVER EVER GOOD ENOUGH, is it?! Why even bother then? I'll just return to looking like a troll and act as mean and hateful to every single person I ever meet. And I'm sure as f—ing hell never going to ever tell anyone that I have any interest in them or even pursue them in any way. Hell, why even talk to them? If they don't come talk to me first, then they obviously have no interest.

Playing hard to get?! Why not play impossible to get?! Because if they gave a $*** they'd keep trying because every guy is obviously the same, right?! Well, I say, screw them ALL…you all think you're too good for me?! That you can do better than me?! She's only average size? F that! I have to have a girl model sized!!! She isn't a blonde with horribly dyed hair with a fake tan?! F that! I have to date what's popular! If she doesn't look exactly like every f—ing girl on TV, she must not be a girl…urgh, my caveman mind can't comprehend that. She must be secretly male…she has a lot of masculine energy anyway…she MUST really be a dude, which means thinking about her makes me gay! ARRRGGH! She said that she just had a relapse…which means she had some sort of addiction problem at some point in her life?! F— that! Even someone recovering from a problem should be avoided like the plague! How DARE she be honest about her past?! What an inconsiderate @#^%$!!! Wait, now she admits she can be bitter at times and has a temper! F— that! No $%^#& of mine is going to have emotions, especially negative emotions! How dare she think and feel for herself, without the man's permission! I don't want any drama…I want to date a doll, not a person! People have feelings and I can't handle that! And she has her own opinions and thoughts! Hell no—she has MY opinions and thoughts or I'll go date a #$&^@ who does. My ego can't handle someone questioning me. I MUST ALWAYS BE RIGHT! Or I will hurt you until you say that I'm right. And I will force you to do everything I want you to do. You're just an animal anyway.

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Summary:

I keep giving men more and more chances to not treat me like trash and they fail every time. If he has no interest in me, then why go on the first date? And if he was interested until the first date because I happen to have had a life before him that has caused me to be quite bitter and angry deep down…and I WILL ADMIT IT…then no one's ever going to like me. Especially if I dare to tell the truth. I admitted when asked to elaborate on my "my week was up and down" comment, that I had relapsed. But I'm better now. I'M BETTER NOW. But that doesn't matter. One strike you're out.

It's like guys can't stand that you had a life before them…and I've had way less of a "life" than most others my age…so no one will ever find me acceptable, especially since I have emotions and I dare to share them with people. I'm so glad I didn't tell him when he said something that hurt my feelings…I mean, it's not his fault I'm overly sensitive about certain things.

To be completely open, honest, and genuine, should I tell someone everything bad about me as soon as it comes up in conversation? Because I certainly will not get that openness in return. Especially, when they will probably disappear when they find out that I have any problems whatsoever.

I mean, when they find out that I have problems with touch and having people close to me (physically…I'm better about emotionally), what are they going to think other than the obvious: Getting her to have sex with me willingly and comfortably will be difficult.

I'm sorry that ended up badly for you. It always ends up badly for me, so I understand. I've pretty much learned that the fastest way to make an enemy is to tell them you're attracted to them or like them more than a friend. Maybe it's just terrible when I personally say that to a guy.

The problems I've been having with initiating is that I either refuse to because it just ticks the guy off and makes sure that any ensembles/classes/whatever I have with him are going to be miserable.

I'm afraid I still wouldn't get the truth…I've been lied to before just because someone was afraid of how I would respond to "I'm not interested"…although it was my fault that he felt that way. Still, I actually would expect a guy to say "sure" and then tell me he was kidding later on.

I hope you feel better. Ranting does help sometimes. Good questions all. I was simply encouraging you to follow through with your idea but not weigh it down with a bunch of emotion. It is generally not the best way to start out. That comes later, after a certain amount of trust is gained. Personal information is not general information. Opening a floodgate of personal stuff is not the way to be open, honest & genuine. It is however more likely to scare someone off if they are considering what you bring to the table & you lead with all your history/problems. TMI is just that. They probably want to get to know other things about you first, just as you would likely not want to know all the dirt about someone as a way to "get close". You are looking for the good in someone right? Those shared interests, common goals. I think everyone wants to get to know our best selves first, just as we want to get to know theirs. That is not a bad thing.
Being attractive does help, as you know, but it is not everything.
And to your question, yes, it goes both ways, don't you think? If someone/anyone is interested in pursuing another, they will. Sure, people can be shy, or whatever, but if they are truly interested in being with someone, they will figure out a way to do that. I believe this is basic human nature. That's all.
You are interested in this guy, I think he may know that, based on the number of texts & attempts by you. It all sounds pretty healthy. But again, try not to lay too much out there at the beginning. It is not being dishonest, it is putting your best foot forward, as they say.

I hope he will respond favorably and clearly to you. No one likes to have to second guess what is going on.

Sadly, I don't feel better. I've been feeling more bothered by my gender identity which will make it more difficult to feel like I won't be rejected by a male. Or even be understood. But that's a different thing altogether.

I tried not to talk about those things, but I felt too comfortable. I didn't really give much away and caught myself before I fully disclosed anything, but what am I supposed to say when asked what I meant by having an up and down week? If I start saying that I can't talk about this or that or that it's none of his business, then it looks like I'm hiding something. Well, technically I am, but it just makes me look worse.

How can you be open, honest, and genuine if you can't even be yourself. I mean, I've "feminized" myself so it at least it would look like I liked guys and maybe guys might like me, but with the vast majority of people, you can't talk about that stuff meaning no matter what I do, I'll never be open, honest, and genuine. Especially since I have no idea who I am…no one else knows either.

When you feel comfortable with a person, you start telling stories and will accidentally refer to something that may be negative and then you can catch yourself before you go too far, but you can't take it back…

I've already ruined this, so I should just let it go. I have a future career to get married to and maybe I can have some cats for "children". I should have never wasted my time letting myself even try to relate to another human being in any way past platonic friendship. I always ruin it and I always ruin it this quickly. I think this is probably the best attempt I've ever had, but I had to constantly ask people what I'm supposed to do or say next because I know whatever I think I should say or do is going to be wrong.

Some people are just not lovable in a romantic sort of way at least…I'm clearly one of those people. It's my fate to be alone.

I'll be lucky if he ever talks to me again. I don't think I should say anything, I'll just make it worse. Unless there's someone there whispering exactly what to say in my ear.

Also, I think your PM's are shut off…just saying.