[janfow365123123]

Me: 33, soon to be 34. Gifted Intelligence/mature. Daddy issues. Always attracted to "unavailable men". Haven't been able to get a date in 4 years that is anything but sexual, and I am celibate til marriage as a lifestyle choice. Frustration. Loneliness.

Him: 51. Lives in another country (though still accessible should situation warrant). Living unhappily in a dependent state in a common law/house mate set up. He won't tell her about me, out of fear of retribution which could cause him health problems as he's a shut in. He has many of the same ailments as I had until recently.

We: Have a great deal in common. Talk for hours at a time (3-8 hrs non-stop). We talk about anything (and I mean, anything). We cannot visit each other at present both because of health concerns. I have rarely had such a deep emotional bond with anyone in my life.

Red flags? Is this wrong? Romantic? A little too Florence Nightingale? Emotional Affair? Daddy Issues? (My father was a "non-present" father).

Would be great to get an outside perspective.... I can't imagine losing what I have with this person, even if there is no romance from it at all. I've met some of his friends via phone - we get along as well. It just feels like "home".

Thanks, J

[hamster-bamster]

I cannot imagine talking with anybody for up to 8 hours non-stop. And it is not that I cannot listen attentively or talk at length myself. But this is... not wrong, but highly, highly unusual. Most people would not be able to talk for 8 hours non-stop even with their twin siblings. A lot of fathers are non-present, but not a lot of daughters would talk for that long non-stop, so your dad's non-presence cannot explain such an unusual setup in your current life. I guess if it feels like home and if you met his friends via phone, it is REAL and not imaginary, and, if it feels like home, stay with it, but - with that kind of time involvement, would you ever find time for a relationship that can lead to a marriage? From your first paragraph it appears that marriage is you medium-term goal. Due to a combination of factors such as country of residence and state of health, this man would not marry you. So talking to him for that long does not advance you in what appears to be a fairly pressing goal for you, since you are 34 almost. So I would not say that it is WRONG - it is, rather, COUNTER-PRODUCTIVE/

again, I am just assuming that if you wrote what you wrote about marriage you want to be married

[gayleggg]

One red flag depending on where he lives but in the US most people who live together as common law couples are considered legally married and need a divorce to dissolve the relationship.

As far age, I don't find that an issue. I dated a guy twenty years my junior for nearly two years and we got along great and the only reason it ended was I didn't want him to miss out on having children and I was unwilling to have another one. He said it didn't matter but I was afraid that would change and fear has always ruled my world.

Know that a person that you don't see can say or be anyone they choose to be. I'm not saying he is that way, but it happens. My current husband and I spent hours on the phone before we moved in together but that didn't tell me about his credit card debt and his unwillingness to compromise. We are still together though now because we financially have to.

Emotional affairs can seem very real but until you get to know someone in real life there are things you won't see.

I hope things turn out well for you. I hope I haven't sounded to negative. I really don't mean to but I am cautious.

[janfow365123123]

To be honest, I just enjoy the closeness. I don't think he's faking about himself, but there's more to the story, I'm sure. He's a complicated individual, and I respect that. Either way, I am enjoying the experience. In all realistic terms, the chances of us getting together romantically are practically nil anyways - but the warm attention and friendship I'll never turn down. And I can be that for him in a very raw environment, so if I can bring a little healing into his life, if for no other then that end, than so be it.

[toolman65]

We want what we can have. But we want what we can't have even more.

Perhaps your attraction to unavailable men is a way to keep you safe. An unavailable romantic partner is perfect, flawless. They always do the right thing, say the right thing, etc., etc. They are a fantasy.

You describe yourself as frustrated and lonely. Why is that ? Are there zero prospects for you out there or do you push guys away because they want to be intimate?

If talking to this guy makes you happy, then so be it. You are a single woman and can engage with anyone you wish.

Recognize however, that he is actively deceiving the person he is dependant upon. The fact that you talk with him for hours and have "met" his friends makes the odds of her finding out about you that much greater.

Have you ever thought that maybe he wants to get caught?

Is he prepared to live with consequences? Are you?

If he were to show up at your door tomorrow, would you be capable of looking after his health issues, would his being a shut in bother you? What if he wanted sex before marriage?

I think that before you get further invested with him you must find out what he is feeling. If it just a friendship, then why the secrecy? If he wants more, but is incapable of being there physically, is that enough for you? Is having an emotional affair going to cure your loneliness and frustration?

[janfow365123123]

You bring up some excellent points. I can understand the psychological issue of needing to keep myself safe from men. I have long harbored a belief that men cannot be trust, as I have had many cheat and deceive me in the past because I would not have sex with them or for other reasons. It irritates me that men only seem to want women for their bodies. Our bodies shift and change, but with so much attention on youth and slender body image, I, with my copious curves and 30+ year frame can't seem to attract anyone but those men interested in a quick shag. I'm tired of it.

As to your latter points, I completely agree.

- J

Originally Posted by toolman65

We want what we can have. But we want what we can't have even more.

Perhaps your attraction to unavailable men is a way to keep you safe. An unavailable romantic partner is perfect, flawless. They always do the right thing, say the right thing, etc., etc. They are a fantasy.

You describe yourself as frustrated and lonely. Why is that ? Are there zero prospects for you out there or do you push guys away because they want to be intimate?

If talking to this guy makes you happy, then so be it. You are a single woman and can engage with anyone you wish.

Recognize however, that he is actively deceiving the person he is dependant upon. The fact that you talk with him for hours and have "met" his friends makes the odds of her finding out about you that much greater.

Have you ever thought that maybe he wants to get caught?

Is he prepared to live with consequences? Are you?

If he were to show up at your door tomorrow, would you be capable of looking after his health issues, would his being a shut in bother you? What if he wanted sex before marriage?

I think that before you get further invested with him you must find out what he is feeling. If it just a friendship, then why the secrecy? If he wants more, but is incapable of being there physically, is that enough for you? Is having an emotional affair going to cure your loneliness and frustration?

[Bill3]

I have long harbored a belief that men cannot be trusted as I have had many cheat and deceive me in the past.

You mentioned attraction to unavailable men. I wonder if this passage is another side of that same coin: just as attraction to unavailable men keeps you safe from intimacy, so does the experience-based, but nevertheless inaccurate, belief that all men cannot be trusted. I suspect that much of this has been shaped by the "Daddy issues" you mentioned. Have you explored these matters in therapy or would you consider doing that?

[janfow365123123]

Absolutely I would consider seeing a therapist - but in my area they are very very hard to find. I'm kind of stuck, to be honest.

Originally Posted by Bill3

You mentioned attraction to unavailable men. I wonder if this passage is another side of that same coin: just as attraction to unavailable men keeps you safe from intimacy, so does the experience-based, but nevertheless inaccurate, belief that all men cannot be trusted. I suspect that much of this has been shaped by the "Daddy issues" you mentioned. Have you explored these matters in therapy or would you consider doing that?

[janfow365123123]

As to the "daddy issues", I grew up with an emotionally unavailable father who spent most of my childhood either avoiding me, or curled up in a parlor room chair in the dark, nursing his chronic depression and avoiding treatment. So in a sense, the father I wanted to know, betrayed me - from the constant rebellious behavior towards treatment, to wanting to leave the house and us "consider him as though dead" when were children, to never being willing to take a single "family" vacation with us. He was also a victim of intense emotionally abuse of the sexual kind when he was younger. So I understand some of it.

I just have no idea how to move past this. A part of me wonders if my abstinence beliefs and other such personal belief structures are not really due to me wanting to be "righteous" but protected from the inconsistency and dishonesty I have come to know of men in general throughout my life. I have been constantly cheated on due to my lack of willingness to have sex prior to marriage, I also once found out that a man I wanted to marry had attempted to repeatedly sexually assault my only sister on several occasions. How could I ever trust me with intimacy when this is my future with them???

The only man I was ever with that I SHOULD have married that was decent, religion drove away only days before a decision to marry. I was a complete fool.

- J

[Webgoji]

I'm kinda confusededed ... you say he's living in a common law/house mate kind of thing. Is he really married or is she a roommate or what's up with that?

[Bill3]

The only man I was ever with that I SHOULD have married that was decent, religion drove away only days before a decision to marry.

I'm so sorry for your loss.

I grew up with an emotionally unavailable father

In childhood you learned that men are unavailable. It could well be that you subconsciously seek out unavailable men, and decline those who are available, because you were taught through your childhood experience that unavailable defines what men are.

Absolutely I would consider seeing a therapist - but in my area they are very very hard to find. I'm kind of stuck, to be honest.

You feel like there is no way to move forward. I wonder if you would consider an online therapist. Some people on this forum do use them. What if you started a thread on that topic, to learn how people feel about online therapists?

[toolman65]

You are a victim of abuse as much as anyone else. Your father was living with you but was neither physically or emotionally available to you. As a child, you naturally thought that there was something wrong with you. The idea that the problem lay with your father was impossible for you to formulate, because as children, we look at our caregivers as all powerful and perfect.

The rejection and low self esteem you felt as a child has haunted you to the present day.

You use the "no sex until marriage" as a way to test potential partners. Have you ever considered that this all or nothing deal breaker isn't working for you? That it may be a dysfunctional way of keeping you from the terror of complete intimacy?

I hate to tell you this but being unsullied on your wedding night is no guarantee against being cheated on. More than half of all marriages end in divorce. Having a ring and a man that passed your test will do nothing in the long term to ease your fear of being rejected.

I am no therapist and would never claim to be. BUT i would urge you to get help in letting the past go.

You cannot feel bad enough to change what has happened.

You need to forgive your father.

I am not talking about exoneration, not at all, he neglected you and that is not o.k..

I am talking about "i forgive him because i need to move on. I am sick of feeling this way and it has to stop because i am a good person deserving of love." And "falling for unavailable men has done nothing but leave me lonely and frustrated...... I deserve better"

You do deserve better than to lead an emotionally barren life. But , until you believe this, nothing will change.

"we don't see things as they are, we see things as we are" Eckhart Tolle

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by Webgoji

I'm kinda confusededed ... you say he's living in a common law/house mate kind of thing. Is he really married or is she a roommate or what's up with that?

This question cannot be answered, at least not without a thorough background check which is unlikely to happen given the distance.

The question that can be answered is this:

"What is he telling OP about his living arrangement?"

[janfow365123123]

Thank you for your thoughts and suggestions. I appreciate them all. Many of your observations I feel are spot on, but I simply don't know how "not" to be attracted to unavailable men. I'm usually knee-deep in the infatuation stage before I realize what is going on.

The abstinence choice was born from my spiritual beliefs. However, the time is fast approaching, and my age is fast passing, where I'm not sure such notions are as meaningful anymore. If such rituals create a void, perhaps they are better left discarded.

As to marriage - yes, I am terrified of it. After surviving the trauma of my parent's rocky relationship and destructive divorce, and seeing countless aunts and uncles lose spouses to cheating and divorce; and see my beloved grandparents lose each other to cancer... added to my belief that divorce is wrong on principal - leaves me little reason to marriage out of sheer fear. I highly suspect this is why I formulated some reason to break ties with perhaps the only man in life I had ever met that I probably should have married (who has now moved on with someone else).

As to forgiving my father, I try to all the time. But it's very difficult when you're dealing with someone who behaves very cryptically, very depressed, and very disturbed. Some of the things I have even seen him post on on Facebook would have anyone left scratching their head...

How do I "make" myself attracted to the right men?

- J

Originally Posted by toolman65

You are a victim of abuse as much as anyone else. Your father was living with you but was neither physically or emotionally available to you. As a child, you naturally thought that there was something wrong with you. The idea that the problem lay with your father was impossible for you to formulate, because as children, we look at our caregivers as all powerful and perfect.

The rejection and low self esteem you felt as a child has haunted you to the present day.

You use the "no sex until marriage" as a way to test potential partners. Have you ever considered that this all or nothing deal breaker isn't working for you? That it may be a dysfunctional way of keeping you from the terror of complete intimacy?

I hate to tell you this but being unsullied on your wedding night is no guarantee against being cheated on. More than half of all marriages end in divorce. Having a ring and a man that passed your test will do nothing in the long term to ease your fear of being rejected.

I am no therapist and would never claim to be. BUT i would urge you to get help in letting the past go.

You cannot feel bad enough to change what has happened.

You need to forgive your father.

I am not talking about exoneration, not at all, he neglected you and that is not o.k..

I am talking about "i forgive him because i need to move on. I am sick of feeling this way and it has to stop because i am a good person deserving of love." And "falling for unavailable men has done nothing but leave me lonely and frustrated...... I deserve better"

You do deserve better than to lead an emotionally barren life. But , until you believe this, nothing will change.

"we don't see things as they are, we see things as we are" Eckhart Tolle

I just finished going through this. At 31 I feel head over heels with a 60 year old man. At first he seemed like everything I wanted. He had this tough James Dean exterior that no one could penetrate and he also suffered from anxiety and was a loner...but he lived with a woman(his own age) for over four years after his house was foreclosed on. He reassured me that they were just roommates and she wouldn't care if we were friends. I spent hours talking, texting and holding this mans hand. I thought our emotional bond was perfect, my soul mate. Well once his girlfriend found out about our friendship she was very angry calling 24/7 and instead of him defending our relationship he was more concerned about making her mad and losing his free place to leave. He ultimately froze me out of his life. Will not respond to any texts etc. it has had a huge impact on my physical and emotional health. It was sad because with me he was allowed to cry and be vulnerable. I would have never left him. So emotional affairs can hurt you very very deeply.

[Bill3]

How do I "make" myself attracted to the right men?"

A good first step is to just notice when you are being attracted to or getting involved with men who are not available. Maybe you don't notice right away, as you suggested. That's okay. You notice when you notice.

When you do notice, don't judge yourself. Think along the lines of sighing gently and saying to yourself Oh, there it is again. . When you notice without judging yourself, you allow your mind a chance to handle things differently than in the past. In a way, it is like trying to correct a bad habit. It takes time and patience with yourself. Be gentle with yourself and allow your mind a chance to figure out new ways of being.

[janfow365123123]

Yeah. I've been "noticing" for a while. That hasn't worked too well.

[Bill3]

It's noticing without judgment or exasperation. It takes time and it isn't a cureall. It is a first, useful step.

For instance, you started this thread. You talked about a situation and got some useful thinking from others. That's good! You could start a thread here whenever you notice an attraction to someone who is unavailable. That would be very constructive.

[toolman65]

Forgiveness isn't about minimizing the past, it isn't even about the other person, it is about severing the pain that ties you another person.

The goal is to have the freedom to make choices in life that are good for you. Choices that are uncontaminated by painful memories.

Trying to decode the postings on your dad's facebook page is a continuation of your childhood. You didn't understand him then and you don't understand him now. You may never understand him.

Have you considered saying "I don't need to do this anymore" and stop visiting his page?

Understanding is not a prerequisite for moving on.

You can always try to figure him out later.