Hypocrisy when it comes to tolerance?

I don't think whatever discussions you have on other forums should be brought up on here.. we aren't on those forums so we don't know what you discuss there. If something bothers you on other forums maybe you should address it with them not go on a new forums to criticize other ones.that is not productive and not going to help you to find a date

Yea, I agree that there are people who are less open-minded. You'll find people like that everywhere you go. My point was, that it was not because of your sob story that we responded in the way we did. I can't speak for everyone, but I would have said the same thing (that age is just a number) because that's just my own personal opinion.

I pointed out that you may have jumped to a conclusion too soon because you don't like it when others jump to conclusions about you right?

The Ladder of Inference - Problem-Solving Training from MindTools.com

The link above is an article about the Ladder of Inference. The theory is that sometimes we make faulty assumptions because we only select evidence & data that will support our beliefs and values.

I think you are rather preoccupied with what you believe your family or other people are going to say about you if you were to approach this girl. But you can't make the assumption before it happens...because then you run the risk of it becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I was by no means guaranteeing that everyone here will share the same opinion about age gaps in relationships. I just hoped to help you spot a thinking pattern that could lead to some nasty arguments. One of my bosses used to tell me in a joking tone "Don't make assumptions, because you'll make an *** out of yourself." I didn't understand that until I really did make an *** out of myself one day.

Hope that article helps. Feel free to ask me questions about it.

Thanks for the replies. I wish I could believe a lot of it, but I do feel a lot of hostility from society towards me for being interested in younger women and for not conforming in general. Problem is, I don't think I can change.

You don't need to conform or change really. One thing to be mindful of: we can't control how other people act, but we have control over how we choose to perceive & react to situations. I don't believe everyone is against you.

Also societal admiration isn't necessarily something to aspire for. Look at what happens to celebrities and such. Just be content with yourself. You don't need to sacrifice your preferences to be someone that somebody else wants you to be.

I don't believe you need to change on regardless of who you like. I think much of hostility in a society is perceived by you rather than being real. Since you really aren't dating anyone society cannot be hostile to you for who you date since you simply do not date anyone! . you focus on what your brother or some others might think about something you aren't even doing ! rather than focusing on how to improve your social skills so you can start dating. I wish you luck

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Wow, it's so ridiculous, this hateful intolerance is not even limited to feminist types, this is something that feminist women and conservative anti-feminist women both tend to agree on. And they not only display hate towards the men in these relationships, but the women too. Smh.

I'm not sure where the feminist comment came from? But feminism does not equal "hating men." It is about equality for men and women.

Emma Watson Gender equality is your issue too | UN Women ? Headquarters

Also I think you are really fixated on what you are perceiving to be intolerance.

Do you want to step down the ladder of inference and walk us through your thought process for how you are coming to the conclusion that all of society is hatefully intolerant?

I think you are projecting your own personal struggles on everything else.

There is no hateful intolerance towards neither men nor women not from feminists not from anywhere else. I am 49 and know people of all sorts ages and life styles, lived in both US and Europe. I have not seen hateful intolerance, certainly not towards what age people you go out with (unless you date minors) etc

It appears as you get your information about the world from anonymous online forums and your own family. This is not enough to properly function in a society.

You need to get out there and mingle with people and if you cannot get out there, then please please seek professional help.

My own nephew is dating younger girl and they are serious, no one cares. But he is actually DATING. You aren't dating, you are just talking about it wasting your energy on arguing about something that doesn't even exist!!!

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I wouldn't necessarily say ALL of society, but the mainstream majority yes. I repeatedly hear college aged girls referring to older guys as "creepy" for showing interest in them. And this is where my brothers got it. It has rubbed off on them.

Ok, so mainstream majority. From your observations of girls saying older guys are creepy, where does hate come into play?

Is their expression of discomfort equivalent to hatred?

Are there other reasons girls may use the label "creepy?" Perhaps the girl was approached through an online platform and the only thing she knew about this fellow was his age.

Do you think in general maybe girls feel that guys approaching them out of nowhere is creepy?

I would say that by NO means has the mainstream majority taken the idea of older guys dating younger girls and turned it into a hate-point. And have you ever thought that it might be the way that older guys hit on girls that makes them say that they're creepy? Coming from someone who was a 19 year old girl pretty recently, I can tell you that there are about 5 million wrong ways to approach a young woman, and it seems like older dudes didn't get the memo. Many have the "nice guy" complex and assume that just because they think they were nice to a girl, she's automatically bound by some moral code to comply with his desires, no matter how small and harmless they might seem. The complexities of dating are always expanding and changing, and it's hard for different generations to bridge that gap and understand what's going on in other generations.

Maybe the hostility from society is due to your not conforming in so many other areas that deals with ASD even though you might not be formally Dx'ed with it at this point in time......& You are assuming that it has anything to do with your interest in younger women.....you haven't even dated or actually shown interest in younger women through any actions for anyone to judge you by.....so to assume they are judging you for actions you haven't even taken.....has NOTHING to do with reality & everything to do with thought you have chosen to generate in your own mind.

I have heard similar comments but it's not because of the age it's because of the inappropriate & CRUDE behavior that some of those guys have chosen to approach the younger women with. It's because of their behavior & attitudes they present, & that has nothing to do with their age unless you are going to generalize & say that the majority of guys in that older age bracket behave & have attitudes that are creepy toward younger girls.....that would also be an inappropriate generalization just as your generalization that the majority of society has a problem with older guys dating younger women.

I also know from personal experience, my H had serious problems with his behavior & attitude as part of his social awkwardness & that had an effect of people not wanting to be around him. It's more behaviors & attitudes that create situations that cause people to NOT want to be around a person & that usually has nothing to do with age but rather personality issues.

Ah, now we're getting somewhere.

I don't infer hatred from girls referring to older guys as creepy. I infer it from the hostile, antagonistic comments I see repeatedly from women whenever this topic is discussed. An example would be a woman on another forum I was on who proclaimed that if a guy in his 30s tried to get with her 21 year old daughter, she would stab him to death with an ice pick.

But hatred or no hatred, the fact that they react with discomfort to an older guy being interested in them is an indication that they are passing a negative judgment on the guy. So I am still being pressured to repress my desire and abandon my pursuit of happiness.

And so what if a guy's age is the only thing she knows? If there was no stigma against dating younger girls, then this wouldn't be an issue. But there is. And even if the guy's age isn't the only thing she knows, it will still be an issue once she finds out. And that's thanks to how society is teaching girls to judge older guys.

I think this is one of the preconceived notions young women are taught to have about older men. This is why I'm often afraid to even be nice to younger women and I probably come off as awkward. I could totally see a young woman thinking "oh this creepy older dude thinks I have to go with whatever he wants because he's being nice to me". Again that's thanks to the way society has brainwashed them.

Just quick fyi, I'm trying to slow you down and hone in on the reasoning for your logic as you seem to be skipping rungs on the ladder. I'm not trying to prove you are right or wrong. Much of what you say is derived from some truth. So hope you don't take any offense

... <-- my reaction to her comment about the ice pick. I don't want to dismiss her opinion, but I don't believe this is what you would call a "mainstream majority" comment. She appears to harbor either a very protective nature towards her daughter, or she has had encounters with older men that were unpleasant.

Them passing negative judgment on a different guy --leads to--> You are pressured to repress your desires and abandon your pursuit of happiness ???

Sorry, I think this is an example of a wide jump. I believe the entire sequence would say: They passed judgment on a different guy. That guy is in a situation similar to me. If they judged him, they will judge me too. I don't want to be judged. Therefore, in order for them to not judge me, I must not do what that other guy did, which so happens to be a deep desire of mine. I can't pursue my desire, so I will be unhappy.

What if: They passed judgment on a different guy. That guy's situation is similar to mine, but he is not me. Even if they judge him (or me) and I feel pressured to conform, I don't have to give up my desire.

I cannot emphasize this enough. Your happiness is in your own hands.

My example was meant to show that calling him creepy is not necessarily correlated to the comment about his age. She could have just been referring to him using the only characteristic she knew.

You bring up a good point. I addressed this in my first post about stigmas. I do agree the stigma exists. But seeing as it take generations to remove a stigma (i.e. LGBT movement), it would be unreasonable to expect society to change overnight. That's not to say you need to conform though. You don't! Honestly, I think the world would be a very boring place if everyone did what society expected them to do. Just accept that you cannot change other people and work towards your own goals.

I think being worried about what girls may think and putting those thoughts into their head (when you aren't even sure that is what they are thinking) is an example of how a self-fulfilling prophecy can unravel. Being preoccupied causes you to come off as awkward which will lend the girl to not be as attracted and cause you to think "aha! she WAS judging me after all!" when that may not even have been the case.

I'm going to have to agree with divine on this one. I think a lot of your frustration and efforts are spent trying to blame society for your unhappiness =/

It might not be that they are passing a judgement by not wanting to date older guys but rather that they have personal preference. Some women like older men and some like younger men. It is a question of preference not judgement.

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Ok, so it seems we basically agree that there is a stigma that exists against men dating younger women. What I'm not sure we agree on is how severe the stigma is and how big of a problem it poses.

One major difference I would point out is that with the stigma against LGBT, society is moving in the right direction. People are becoming more accepting of those people. When it comes to men dating younger women, we are moving BACKWARDS. It is becoming LESS acceptable than it was previously. Like I mentioned before, feminists, who normally argue against gender roles and stigmas, are the biggest supporters of this stigma. Because of society's brainwashing, they truly believe that men who date younger women are usually "manipulators" and "exploiters". And this is one issue where the traditionalist anti-feminists will usually agree with them.

Yes it's true that I don't have to follow what society expects me to do. But the issue for me is that when it comes to dating, yes it DOES matter what society thinks, because those who I am looking to date are part of the society and their attitude towards me will be effected by how they are socialized to think.

Well, I think we established that we are talking about mainstream majority. But what about the people who don't buy into those ideals?

What if you were able to find a girl that just so happens to be okay with this? Wouldn't that make you two connect on a deeper level?

I admit it makes it more difficult to find someone to date who is open to the idea of a wide age gap, but it doesn't make it impossible to achieve.

And for the record, the reason I agree that the stigma exists is because I too encountered it (as the girl dating an older guy). That's why I'm not invalidating your opinion or experience. Rather just trying to give you a different view.

You can either see it as black or white, or try to find the gray areas in between.

Not everything in life goes for us. But it's not about how many obstacles are in our way. It's about how many times you can find a way around them and keep yourself going forward - even if you think the rest of the people are walking backwards.

I wish you the best of luck man.

Yeah, of course there are people who don't buy into these ideas and there are girls who would be ok with dating an older guy. But honestly idk, even if I do find a younger girl who would be ok with it, it would be pretty tough for me to be judged by others. If it was simply a prejudice that some people had, that would be one thing, but this is something which mainstream society disapproves of and I would be looked at as immature and even as predatory. My image is pretty important to me, so this is kind of a problem.

But yeah, you can probably understand now why I find it hard to tolerate anyone who disapproves of guys dating younger girls. And you can probably understand why I don't believe feminism is about equality.

I wish I had a simple solution for you. I'm not going to say that it's easy because I still have yet to learn how to maintain boundaries between myself and what other people tell me. But there are times when we need to just not care about what other people think.

To be honest, I don't really follow what goes on with feminism, so I'm clueless in that aspect haha