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  #51  
Old Jan 09, 2016, 01:05 PM
Bill3 Bill3 is offline
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Thank you for your kind words.

What if anything do you enjoy discussing with her? Can you tell us about a conversation with her that was at least somewhat enjoyable for you?
Thanks for this!
JustJenny

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  #52  
Old Jan 09, 2016, 01:50 PM
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JustJenny JustJenny is offline
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Thank you

I like it when she talks about doing something proactive. Like taking a trip somewhere or meeting a friend. These things happen rarely. I also like it when she tells me about my aunt and my cousin because I don't have a direct contact with them.
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Bill3
  #53  
Old Jan 09, 2016, 05:45 PM
Bill3 Bill3 is offline
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Okay. You feel obligated to speak with her, but right now it feels like a risky chore. She might be hurtful, and she will be boring.

With regard to the boredom: what if you ask her about what you want her to speak about--your aunt, your cousin, her proactivity. Even if she is not proactive, by asking her about it you plant seeds.

How about her work, could that be interesting to hear about? Her tastes or suggestions in music? Just as an idea: maybe she can tell you some music that her students are working on, and you can listen to someone perform it online, eg on youtube?

With regard to her making hurtful comments: this is where radical acceptance can really come in handy. This is how she is: clumsy sometimes, perhaps irritable, overly interested in you, intervening. Maybe you can come to accept that she is going to say these things--and maybe you can decide that they don't require a response? Maybe you can allow them to fly by as she moves on to the next topic?
Thanks for this!
JustJenny
  #54  
Old Jan 09, 2016, 06:29 PM
Anonymous37954
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Jenny, I just wanted to sympathize.
My mom shares a lot of the same traits as yours. We live in different states and when she visits she is insulted if we don't spend all of our time together. And she lets me know. She guilts me a lot. She will make a (what I consider) snide remark and when I call her on it she will say "oh I was only joking!" and act hurt that I found it offensive. She comes across as totally easy going "I'm happy with anything you want to do", but she is critical. Her new game is to pretend not to hear (she's elderly) but I notice that the quieter my husband and I are, the better she can hear us. She feels that ALL of our business is also her business and she gets offended if she finds anything out later...I could go on and on.

I let her get to me for far too long. Now I am at the point where I just smile and nod. I try to respect her as a parent but I also am more objective than I used to be. It's a balancing act, really. I remind myself that this may the last time I see her and that I should have as much patience as humanly possible. She's lived through a lot.

I have the advantage in that I also have children. It gives me a different viewpoint.

It is not easy to separate from a parent.
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Thanks for this!
JustJenny
  #55  
Old Jan 10, 2016, 03:22 AM
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JustJenny JustJenny is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill3 View Post
With regard to the boredom: what if you ask her about what you want her to speak about--your aunt, your cousin, her proactivity. Even if she is not proactive, by asking her about it you plant seeds.
I very frequently change the whatever the topic is to my aunt. She seem to like talking about her.

Regarding the proactivity issue... When we proposed she gets a hobby she found that highly insulting. A while ago I suggested she takes a computer class and she said that she doesn't need it. She doesn't know how to copy/paste although she uses her computer every day...

She is doing some small proactive things but unfortunately they are not interesting to me...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill3 View Post
How about her work, could that be interesting to hear about? Her tastes or suggestions in music? Just as an idea: maybe she can tell you some music that her students are working on, and you can listen to someone perform it online, eg on youtube?
She has been working at the same place for... forever. I know her tastes, they didn't change. It's one of thsoe conversations I just have to sit through. I have no idea why I am treating her this way, I am fine with listening to other people about their work...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill3 View Post
With regard to her making hurtful comments: this is where radical acceptance can really come in handy. This is how she is: clumsy sometimes, perhaps irritable, overly interested in you, intervening. Maybe you can come to accept that she is going to say these things--and maybe you can decide that they don't require a response? Maybe you can allow them to fly by as she moves on to the next topic?
Last time when we were visiting her for a couple of days I tried ignoring everything that I didn't like. I was increasingly quiet and she would keep on going. When we are visiting her she likes to offer food continuously. I didn't snap, but at what cost... I wanted to jump out of the window and run far far away.
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  #56  
Old Jan 10, 2016, 03:27 AM
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sophiesmom, did anything change after you had your kids? We are planning to have kids in a couple of year from now and I am afraid my mother will shower me with her attention. I know she wants grandchildren...
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  #57  
Old Jan 10, 2016, 03:31 PM
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sophiesmom, did anything change after you had your kids? We are planning to have kids in a couple of year from now and I am afraid my mother will shower me with her attention. I know she wants grandchildren...
Well, I think that the key here is NOT asking for any "advice" from day one, even if you want it. My mom would have just taken that and run with it thinking that I wanted it in ALL situations and not just in the one instance. So that was established immediately and without direct confrontation. I did include her in my shopping and planning and what-not so that she didn't feel excluded, though. And it didn't completely stop her from telling me her opinion but I think it helped.

One thing that was advantageous to me by simply having children was that they had all of my attention and energy and also gave my mom a distraction. Our relationship issues did not lessen, but the kids took the focus off them.

Not much help, I know, as I think it's a ymmv kind of thing.
Thanks for this!
JustJenny
  #58  
Old Jan 10, 2016, 04:36 PM
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That's actually helpful, sophiesmom. Now that I think about it I hardly ever ask her for any advice anymore.
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  #59  
Old Jan 10, 2016, 05:45 PM
Bill3 Bill3 is offline
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With regard to proactivity: I agree that you would not actually propose stuff to her. But you could cultivate her proactivity by encouraging her when she speaks about it, even if right now what she is proactive about isn't rewarding to discuss.

Right, I was thinking more about her work than her taste. What bothers you when you listen to hear speak about her work?

About ignoring everything you don't like: it sounds like taking a few walks would be very helpful! What happens if you propose changes of subject?
  #60  
Old Jan 11, 2016, 02:46 AM
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She was living alone for the past 10 years and she is making tiny steps to change things. I don't know about encouraging her to do something... It might end up being something she doesn't want or like and the blame is on me again. I am starting to think that maybe she is just fine with the way her life is now.

Regarding listening her talk about work... Again, it's a conversation I just sit through. I don't know what bothers me about it. Maybe I just don't like the her attitude towards things. She doesn't seem to like a lot of people. She makes a lot of assumptions and then takes those assumptions for the truth. Once she said that a male colleague of hers who was living with his parents in his 40s must be seeing prostitutes... Because he is a man in his 40s living with his parents. And then she said that a male acquaintance of mine who was in his mid-30 must be seeing prostitutes... because he is a single man in his mid-30. Her stories are largely based on assumptions rather than facts and I don't really like that.

Changing the subject usually works well.
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  #61  
Old Jan 11, 2016, 12:57 PM
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Just got off the phone with her. She called me to thank for the presents. She made me feel bad again. The conversation was nice right up until she assumed that I broke something at my in-laws' place (something broke there, but I had nothing to do with it). I asked why would she assume that I would break something. She started bringing up times when I would spill a drink or drop something. She would bring up specific examples that I don't even remember anymore. I told her that such small things happen (like spilling a drink) and there is nothing one can do about it. Then she said that I spill drinks and drop things more often than other people and that it's her job to criticize me about it. I reminded her that she wouldn't know that because we don't live together and I asked her if she thinks that I like being criticized about something so insignificant. She said that she knows that I hate it, but if she doesn't criticize me then who else will? So she's doing me a favor.

I don't drink, don't smoke, don't do drugs, don't do anything harmful to myself or others. So she criticizes me for dropping things and spilling drinks. I mean, seriously.

Again, I didn't snap and I didn't say anything impolite. But I am shaking inside. She is making me feel bad on purpose - she knows I don't like it and she is still doing it. And I should be thankful apparently.

I made her a present. I don't say anything mean to her. Why is she doing this to me? Does she think that it will bring us closer if she makes me angry?

Ok, lesson learned - next time she asks me if I broke something I change the topic.
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  #62  
Old Jan 11, 2016, 01:40 PM
Bill3 Bill3 is offline
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(((((JustJenny)))))

Quote:
I asked why would she assume that I would break something.
I am thinking that she took this as a challenge or criticism. I wonder if she has narcissistic tendencies. Narcissism could explain the intensity of her response.
Thanks for this!
JustJenny
  #63  
Old Jan 11, 2016, 01:41 PM
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eskielover eskielover is offline
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It's learned behavior......her mother was probably the same way????

They also love to hold onto the past memories & can't let go of them wanting to keep the past alive & well in their minds.

Yep, moms like that one just has to sort of tolerate & not take what they say personally.....just "mom's being mom again" sort of stuff & write it off to that rather than the fact that she's intentionally attacking you. Some people don't know any other learned behavior & if they have no desire to change or reprogram their neuropathways for that behavior.....we end up stuck having to hear it for the REST of THEIR lives.

It's sad but after my mother died, there was an area of relief though I missed her terribly it was like that area of stress in my life disappeared. Didn't mean I loved her any the less there was just an area of less stress & tension I felt without really realizing it until later looking back.

Changing the topic is a great way to deal with it & she probably wouldn't even notice....as she sounds like someone who just blurts out what is on the top of their mind & when it's off the top it's replaced by something else.
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Thanks for this!
JustJenny
  #64  
Old Jan 11, 2016, 03:05 PM
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Thank you all for listening (err, reading!) to all of this and giving your feedback. It really helped me understand what is really bothering me the most.

It is indeed possible that my mother had a similar relationship with her mother. I don't know much about it, but I do know that when my mother met my father, my grandmother told my mother that she has to choose between her and my father. What kind of weird condition is that? Strange relationships must be running in the family...
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The thought that life could be better is woven indelibly into our hearts and our brains. - Paul Simon
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  #65  
Old Jan 11, 2016, 09:09 PM
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Either the same or different. I disliked how my mom was always reacted emotionally & took everything personally so I fought the world to be different creating my own form of dysfunction, different from my mom but dysfunctional in its own way
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Thanks for this!
JustJenny
  #66  
Old Jan 11, 2016, 10:34 PM
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I think this is all part of growing up. It doesn't just suddenly happen because of a birthday. It takes a long time sometimes.

We start to see parents as less parents, but more just regular people. We get more objective and sometimes discover that this person is not someone we would necessarily be friends with, all things being equal.

I don't know if a strict upbringing has anything to do with it...I suspect it might, as we strive for approval, and being a well-behaved child is all we were allowed to be. It takes a loooong time to be psychologically independent and be okay with that.
Thanks for this!
JustJenny
  #67  
Old Jan 21, 2016, 12:28 AM
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Hi all,

I have a strange problem with my mother which is hard to describe. I would like ask your opinion about it.

My mother is almost 65 and I am 28. We live in different countries, don't see eachother often and don't talk too much (she would like to talk more though).

The Story

She has raised me alone: my father died when I was 3 and she never remarried nor dated anyone again. My grandmother died when I was 7, which made things even more difficult for my mother. My mother worked as a music teacher her whole life. She worked a lot and she had to listen to children playing bad music every day 5 days a week. We would do some activities together, like walk in a park or take a trip somewhere.

We were fighting quite a lot as far as I can remember it. But I am not sure what it was anymore. It was not the money, I never did drugs nor smoked anything, never hanged out with shady people... She was always very protective and very caring. Too caring actually. I remember some friends of her would say things like "If she (me) asked for the Moon you (my mother) would get it for her".

When I turned 18 I moved out to study in a different city. I couldn't really live with my mother anymore and I had a good excuse. I would come back for the weekends but we would fight frequently, so I stopped coming back often. I was getting along with the landlady (she was living in the same house) much better than with my mother and I prefers the landlady's company over my mother's... My mother did visit me a couple of times, but it was some sort of a mental struggle for me.

When I turned 22 I moved out to another country to continue my education. We would see eachother once a year. When I met my now-husband at the age of 25 she didn't take it well. She did say some mean things like "You'll get over this one and you'll find another one" and "You can't live without a d***". When she has realized that me and him were serious, she started crying about it.

Last year we got married. My mother was invited to the wedding although I had a bad feeling about it. Throughout the wedding she was obviously too worried (it was creeping me out a little): she played with her necklace until it got completely tangled and I had to untangle it. Then she offered me some pills (probably some herbal stuff) to calm my nerves. I found that offer really weird because I was only a little nervous (it's my wedding day after all). Throughout that day I had an impression she was treating me as a child, telling me to behave at the table and not speak too loud. Long story short, at the end of the day we had a fight where I said she should stop treating me like I am a small child and she told me what a horrible person I am, that my family in-law will soon find out how bad I really am and that every time she talks to me she wants to kill herself. I was shocked. I didn't want to stay in a fight with her on my wedding day so I went and apologized to her. We didn't visit her for Christmas this year (she wasn't really inviting us).

My husband is rather easy going and he generally wants to visit her. She made a big fuss about it when we decided to visit her together for the first time and started renovating the rooms. She did it in a very strange way - she didn't do anything with the windows and the doors, but she hired men to do the walls, and she didn't do anything with the scratched floor afterwards. She was very upset about the noise and the dust from the renovation, and that they have scratched the floor. When we arrived, the renovation was "finished". My husband thought that it would be a good idea to help her out and paint the windows and the doors the next time we visit her. The next time (6 months later) we went there and started renovating one door. Again, my mother started complaining about the dust and something else and made a really big deal out of it. She started saying things to me. I lost my temper and I screamed at my husband because it was his idea. I never screamed at him before because he is a sweetheart. I felt awful on so many levels.

Now she lives in this strange partially renovated apartment. A lot of things (like painting the floor) can be done, but she is not doing it. I decided to stop getting involved, whatever I will do it will probably make her angry. And I don't talk to her much anymore. I am afraid to tell her things because she overreacts to everything. If I told her that I had problems at work she would not sleep at night thinking about it. And then call me to talk bout it. Every day probably. She doesn't have many friends and she likes to gossip a little (although she would not admit it).

We don't seem to have any interests in common, but is that important? Once me and my husband suggested that she finds a new hobby and she found that very insulting. She immediately brought up 'a hobby' a friend of hers who spends lot of time on the internet dating sites. Oh, what a horrible thing to do for a single woman!

I keep telling myself that I cannot change her in any way, I can just change my way of interacting with her. My solution was to not talk to her much. But I feel bad about it every day. She lives alone and I am her only child.

So the questions is... How come we don't get along? She is still working, she is not drinking, she is caring and she did so much for me. I would appreciate any feedback.
This is similar to my story in a certain way. My parents want me to come back home after I finished my education abroad, and they have done a lot to me. They have made my life easier for sure. I fight with them from time to time, but, at the end of the day we are family. I guess children and parents have different views and interest in this. May be when we have children we will understand their point of view. Getting old isn't easy, I guess. I am struggling now what to do, and yet have to decide.
  #68  
Old Jan 24, 2017, 06:18 PM
Ms.Beeblebrox Ms.Beeblebrox is offline
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Hi everyone.

I found this thread and decided to add to it rather than starting my own, because stories here remind me so much of my own mother and our "eternal struggle for control". Apologies in advance for the volume.

First off, my mom is not the only culprit, my dad isn't much better, if not worse. He was a high functioning alcoholic who made life for everyone a living hell, but always excused himself with the fact that he provided well for us. Oh well, that "provision" bought an early grave for my sister. Almost did me in as well, but I escaped at 22.

My mom was an enabler and never stood up for us or herself. She never made enough money and wasn't able to function independently, so that was used as an excuse for letting us suffer.

But on the surface my relationships with parents were pretty good, I think I was suffering from Stockholm syndrome for the most of my life... After all they paid for everything, told me that I wouldn't last a day in the big bad world without them and made sure my self esteem never rose from under the floor boards.

And then, all of a sudden, I got married and moved to another country! I think this move saved my life. I was already suicidal and suffering from crippling anxiety before I met my future husband. But I never really linked that directly to my parents behavior. Of course I knew dad's drinking was horrible, but I came to accept it as a part of life.

When I put some distance between me and the parents I started seeing things in a different light. For example:

I realized that it is not normal to be told basically your whole life that your dad can kill you if he wants, because he gave you life to start with.(Uhm, no? It's actually murder and he would go to prison!) Of course he would always add "just joking" at the end of the sentence, but somehow it didn't help as much as he thought.

Mom tried to persuade me that I was a cripple who couldn't care for herself. She constantly told me how I almost died in childhood and how I had horrible health. I have never been sick after I left her.

She would throw a fit if I tried to cook anything because "I made a mess". But then would complain to everyone that I would die of starvation if not for her.

After I got married my parents started telling me that my husband was going to leave me because I was a bad wife. They didn't live with us, and never talked to him about his standards for a wife, but somehow they knew I was not cutting it. But he never left and after parent lost hope of me returning to them, the attacks became more cruel and sophisticated.

The favorite thing for my mom to attack is my own mothering skills. After my daughter was born she was very displeased with the fact that she was not a sickly child. That I do not need advice on how to bring her back from the brink of death every other month and that I am generally coping well on my own.

If I tried to list all the derogatory remarks she made towards me or my child, I could write and encyclopedia Britannica!

Unfortunately for mom, my daughter has proven sturdy, smart and very well adjusted. This was a horrible thing indeed! Last time when my mom visited she even tried to invent health problems for her, since real ones were in short supply. She told my friend that my kid had a heart defect! NEVER ever was she diagnosed with it, or even had any symptoms, but mom just couldn't cope with a healthy grand daughter for some weird reason.

I haven't seen her or dad for years, but we talk every week. And recently I finally realized that mom was jealous of me and resented every success I had in life. If mom had it her way, I would now be divorced, weighted 300 lb, had a child with all imaginable disorders and lived with her an dad for the rest of my miserable life, so they could suck the rest of my life blood out of me.

It really hurts. Why can't I have parents who love me and want best for me? Why do I deserve it? Not that I am hoping for the answers to these questions, but just writing all of it out makes it better, so thanks for reading!

Last edited by Ms.Beeblebrox; Jan 24, 2017 at 06:58 PM.
  #69  
Old Jan 24, 2017, 06:29 PM
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Medusax Medusax is offline
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Ms. Beeblebrox!!! We have a lot in common, same acting parents but different circumstances. Too much to write at the moment but I would like to share with you!!!
  #70  
Old Jan 24, 2017, 06:52 PM
Ms.Beeblebrox Ms.Beeblebrox is offline
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Originally Posted by Medusax View Post
Ms. Beeblebrox!!! We have a lot in common, same acting parents but different circumstances. Too much to write at the moment but I would like to share with you!!!
I'd love to hear your story! I find it very therapeutic to meet people with similar experiences. Please pm me whenever you want.
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Medusax
  #71  
Old Jan 26, 2017, 06:43 PM
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Medusax Medusax is offline
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Originally Posted by Ms.Beeblebrox View Post
I'd love to hear your story! I find it very therapeutic to meet people with similar experiences. Please pm me whenever you want.
Trying to compose it without being too long-winded. There is so much to it, little things and personality stuff....
..........give me a minute.LOL!!!
Reply
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