I would like to make friends, but one of the problems is that I don't relate to anyone. Even with people I have a lot in common with, I just don't know how to relate to them. I frequently find myself only able to listen to other people talk as I have little to nothing to contribute to the conversation.

I don't relate to fellow grad students in the same department. I've tried community groups with mixed results, but I don't have time to spend a night or two a week there and no friendships really continued after I couldn't be there all the time. I've tried meet-ups, but I don't make friends. Again, even if I had something in common, I wouldn't relate to them. It's like humans are a different species.

I think I've developed social anxiety because I don't understand other people. I have zero clue how they might act or why. I either don't have anything to contribute to a conversation because other people seem to only talk about things I've never experienced or can't relate to or I can't tell when I'm supposed to say something when I do have something to say.

I have no idea how I have a boyfriend, other than he seems to be the only other person around here that's the same species and can actually relate to me.

It doesn't sound like social anxiety, because you didn't say anything about being anxious or nervous around people. Have you thought about Asperger? I read about it, and it seems you share some characteristics.

Good you have a boyfriend. Focus in your relationship with him. Don't focus on other relationships to the point that will affect your relationship with your boyfriend. All we need in our lives is just one person who understands and loves us as we are.

I am nervous and anxious around people because I'm not sure how to act, what to say, when to say it etc. etc.

I've looked into Aspergers, especially since the only person I seem to really relate to (my boyfriend) has it. But if I mention it to anyone there's either not enough information or I'm shot down because it's "clearly a psychological issue", even though I think people forget that it appears differently in women than in men.

Just focusing on the relationship I have isn't enough. I still feel lonely a significant amount of the time. Not having friendships with other people affects my relationship. When he goes off with friends/family by himself then I'm pretty much completely alone. If I had friends then I could do something with them and not be upset that he's going off and doing his own thing some weekends.

A therapist would know. I thought you are with your boyfriend most of the time. I have the same challenge by the way. I cannot relate to people, or may be they cannot relate to me, even if we have the same interests. I'm not sure why. But I'm also extremely anxious around people that I cannot open a conversation with people I don't know very well. This isolates me. So, I'm trying to force myself out despite the fact I cannot relate to others and being socially anxious.

No, we're both doctoral students so we don't have that much time to spend with each other.

Despite being nervous around others, I can speak freely to strangers and people I have little to nothing in common with. When it comes to other graduate students/colleagues/people I would have a lot in common with I'm too terrified/intimidated by them to easily start or continue a conversation.

I would also get along better with men for friendships but I'm terrified and untrusting of men. My boyfriend was able to gain my trust but I don't see that happening with other men.

Originally Posted by I.Am.The.End.

No, we're both doctoral students so we don't have that much time to spend with each other.

Despite being nervous around others, I can speak freely to strangers and people I have little to nothing in common with. When it comes to other graduate students/colleagues/people I would have a lot in common with I'm too terrified/intimidated by them to easily start or continue a conversation.

I would also get along better with men for friendships but I'm terrified and untrusting of men. My boyfriend was able to gain my trust but I don't see that happening with other men.

It sounds a little bizarre that you get along easily with strangers and people with little interest with (which again doesn't sound like social anxiety. I think socially anxious people don't do that, unless they conquered their SA), while not so with people with more common interests. Are you afraid to talk to your colleagues causally, or about the thesis and academics?

I don't go up to strangers and start talking to them, but if a stranger were to talk to me I'm not that nervous about it. I might get annoyed if they continue to have a long conversation with me sometimes because I usually want to be more or less alone. I don't think I'm truly introverted though because I feel drained when I'm away from people for even a day. Weekends are pretty difficult for me sometimes.

When I talk to strangers, I'm likely not going to see them again. If I make a mistake talking with someone I have more in common with (say a fellow grad student for example), it could make my career more difficult. I know I have a personality that most people wouldn't like, so I've learned to hide more and more of it over the years. I don't really know how to be like other people.

I'm afraid to talk to my colleagues casually. I'm not sure what we'd talk about as I have different life experiences. If we're talking about academics, then it's better. Although, I seem to have unpopular opinions so I'd have to stick with facts rather than pedagogy etc. I'm not sure about talking about my thesis…I can't imagine anyone would care or be the least bit interested, so I'm probably not going to talk about it.

I relate to you strongly. I'm fact-oriented. I don't know what to talk causally. So, probably I'll benefit from anything that will benefit you. Good luck in your doctorate.

I'm just more afraid of isolating myself by having a different opinion that I don't say anything even if I know what to say. I could talk casually if I knew anyone who had the same professional experience for example. Everyone I'm around has the same professional experience more or less, but it's not the experience I've had. That's all people talk about…or it's about a sub-field that I know about and can understand but I don't have the depth of knowledge to really contribute to the conversation. I don't mind listening up to a certain point, but I'd love to be involved in a conversation I can actually fully participate in. I'm trying to think what those conversations would be and those may be difficult to find with my peers.

You keep saying your colleagues have different experiences than the ones you have. I'm not sure what that means. Do you mean knowledge wise, or personal wise?

If I didn't know about an academic subject very well, I would ask questions. This way I'll be involved. But in my experience, people don't like to talk about academics and science, at least most of them. It's just boring to them, even for PhD students.

Try to connect at a personal level even if you don't like it. As I said, I'm more or less similar to you, but it seems to me that it doesn't matter what you talk about, just talk politely and friendly. Your fear is preventing you. You need to face it. That's what I'm trying to do.

I also have the habit of not letting go, and keep arguing what people saying, even if it's a casual subject. No good for connections, especially if the subject isn't important. I'm trying to change that.

I think being present and listening is not a bad way to connect, just try to comment on things people say from time to time. If you keep afraid from something, then for sure nothing will change. I fell in this trap for many years, which put me in a near complete isolation, socially speaking.

[Molinit]

If you can't get a professional diagnosis, I would go on the assumption that it's very likely you have Asperger's and frequent forums for AS to find coping tips.

You are always going to have to push yourself beyond your comfort level or you will become isolated and your future options will be very limited.

The colleagues I'm around the most have worked on cruise ships. I haven't. So while their stories are interesting, I can't really contribute anything. I seem to be around predominantly jazz musicians. I play jazz but I don't think about it the same way so I'm not a "real" jazz musician. Besides, I'm actually able to play other genres of music, so that by definition would make me not a "real" jazz musician. But it's hard to have a conversation with most of them because all they talk about is jazz. Or cruise ships. Or military bands, which again I have no experience in. Or they were in touring groups. The only group I've played with extensively didn't tour. They never needed to as they would get multiple gigs a week locally.

I'd hate to ask questions in front of other people because I don't want people to know what I don't know. And what would I comment on? I don't want to interrupt. If I try to talk, most of the time someone just talks over me anyway. I don't know if it's so much about fear but about I don't understand the mechanics. I'm ignored in a group conversation anyway, mainly based on body language. I'm not one to just yell over people until they stop talking and listen to me. To me, that's rude. But there's rarely any point that there's a pause big enough that I can think of what to say.

If I even dared to pursue the possibility of Aspergers, I will get no support like I do if I consider it anxiety. The people in my life think I absolutely could NOT have Aspergers so no one would believe me unless I was formally diagnosed. Which isn't going to happen because it's not like I'm going to get my parents to participate when they think it's completely BS.

[Molinit]

I was assuming you're an adult and don't need your parents' permission to pursue a diagnosis.

Even if you don't wish to, nothing is stopping you from independently finding out how people with AS navigate life more successfully.

I'm encouraging you to do this for yourself and your future. I have a brother who refuses an AS diagnosis who is now 45 and homeless because he refuses all help and refuses to live under very basic rules (clean your room, keep a part-time job).

It's not hard for me to predict that his life isn't going to be as stellar as he thinks it should be, but I also wouldn't sacrifice my peace of mind and energy supporting him when he won't help himself.

So--you have an education and you also have an awareness of some social deficits. I encourage you to investigate ways to compensate for those deficits or life is going to be very, very frustrating for you.

You said it's not fear, but then you said you don't want others to know that you don't know, which is a result of fear of judgement. No one will give you the enough time to say what you want. This is called life. It's an arena. You need to prove yourself somehow. You need to squeeze yourself in a conversation whenever you have something to say and at the most appropriate time you get, like at the end of a sentence. If you feel you interrupted someone, say "sorry for interruption, but ..." and proceed. Again, I relate to you in this, too. I've considered the possibility of Asperger myself, but it doesn't seem that I miss social cues, and that I can't read people's intentions. If you feel your family isn't supportive for you, try CBT books. Just to get insights if it's applied to you, which seems likely. Do you have problems making eye contacts with people?

Try this book.

Originally Posted by I.Am.The.End.

No, we're both doctoral students so we don't have that much time to spend with each other.

Despite being nervous around others, I can speak freely to strangers and people I have little to nothing in common with. When it comes to other graduate students/colleagues/people I would have a lot in common with I'm too terrified/intimidated by them to easily start or continue a conversation.

I would also get along better with men for friendships but I'm terrified and untrusting of men. My boyfriend was able to gain my trust but I don't see that happening with other men.

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I tend to be like you at times. I can't seem to really connect with most people most of the time too. I think that by being nervous around other people, it might put them off? Idk. It's hard to talk to people when you're nervous around them.

Have you tried to get on meds for your anxiety? The right meds helped me a lot. I'm still shy and I still get anxious at times around strangers, but I'm so much better than I used to be. Also, maybe you haven't met the right people yet. It can be really hard to find people to connect with, especially for people with anxiety issues- It seems like not to many people are willing to give us a chance, ugh!

I've clearly not met the right people, but the right people are so few and far between as it seems that my beliefs are always in the minority. The culture of the things I'm involved in through school and career are men's subfields and there is a subtle message throughout most that women shouldn't be there. I'm apparently very liberal politically and I've lived my whole life in red states. I'm on college campuses so there's quite a few other liberal minded people, but still, I'm in the minority there. I don't talk politics, but I'm sure people know I'm very liberal, probably more than I realize. There are very polarizing views within the department as well; all the pro people are friends/get along with each other and all the anti people are friends/get along with each other. The pro group is in the majority and has nearly all the power. The anti group is just screwed by the pro group. Guess which side I'm on? I don't foresee finding many colleges with the anti philosophy as the majority and so I'm not sure where I'd fit in anywhere. I just found out tonight that my doctorate from this institution won't be recognized overseas, so I'm stuck somewhere in the Americas so I have limited options.

I was on anti-anxiety medication for years. I didn't feel like it helped much. I got much closer to making friends after I stopped taking it. The only thing that really helps is smoking and weed is illegal where I live and I need lung capacity for what i do so smoking tobacco on a regular basis is out. Even alcohol doesn't help. If they could put the effect of tobacco in pill form, I'd consider it, but taking psych drugs is kinda taboo so I'd like to not go back there.

The thing that's always bothered me is that it seems that I have to sacrifice my core beliefs and create a new persona/personality in order to make friends. I've found one person in my 27 years of life who has actually liked me for who I am. Maybe there was a second one years ago, but I'm not sure.

I am the same way. Part of it is social awkwardness/anxiety from just a lack of emotional intelligence (I didn't learn a lot of it growing up), and part of it is my personality type: INTJ. I know that there are limitations to the Myers-Briggs but I have a keen interest in it as it explains a lot about my awkwardness. Doesn't help me feel less lonely, it just helps me to feel a little less abnormal.

PS For what it's worth, I don't get an Asperger's vibe from you (not that there would be anything wrong with that; I just don't sense it). I get an IxTJ (ISTJ/INTJ) vibe from you, which are both very rare types for females.

This is what really stuck out for me: "The thing that's always bothered me is that it seems that I have to sacrifice my core beliefs and create a new persona/personality in order to make friends. I've found one person in my 27 years of life who has actually liked me for who I am." YES. I find myself almost creating a persona because who I actually am tends to be unacceptable. And I'm not talking about my depression or mental illness; I'm talking about my personality. The traits of an INTJ are not typically what society expects from a female, so I find myself trying to soften them up a bit; smile more, be less blunt, zone out less, soften up the edges of my intelligence. Try to be more...girly. I don't know how to explain it, exactly, but it's exhausting. The only other alternative is to fully be myself and watch people get super-awkward around me because they just. don't. get. it. I mean, this past weekend at work I was talking about my online dating interactions and realizing that there were some awkward silences from the couple of coworkers I was talking to and I'm like, "Oh. Heh. Maybe that's why I'm single; because I'm a freaking unicorn." Or maybe I'm just a B.

(Incidentally, I did take a bunch of online Myers-Briggs tests which labeled me mainly as ISTJ (some as ENTJ--I'm definitely not an extrovert--and a few as INTJ). I did my own research and came up with something closer to IxTJ/INTJ for my type.)

I suppose it's possible I'm INTJ, but I seem to fit INTP the best. The last two letters seem to change the most based on which test I take. The career I'm going for seems to fit under INTP the best and it seems to fit my personality. I'll keep looking into it though. Thanks!

I don't know how familiar you are with the music world, but I would describe my personality to be a sort of suppressed lead trumpet player personality.

Originally Posted by I.Am.The.End.

I suppose it's possible I'm INTJ, but I seem to fit INTP the best. The last two letters seem to change the most based on which test I take. The career I'm going for seems to fit under INTP the best and it seems to fit my personality. I'll keep looking into it though. Thanks!

I don't know how familiar you are with the music world, but I would describe my personality to be a sort of suppressed lead trumpet player personality.

Those types are very commonly confused from what I understand. I identify with INTP traits sometimes though more heavily with the INTJ. It's that second letter which is pretty ambiguous for me.

I understand the music world very well as I was a music major once upon a time (violin, cello, piano, voice) though I must say I don't understand the metaphor.

I guess I could also describe it as the "arrogant, aggressive alpha male". It's more of a thing in the jazz/popular music world. It doesn't matter as I came up with a less vague description. But you could probably see why this is difficult when you're female. It's not as apparent to the outside observer because I have such low confidence and self-esteem. And because I was female, I thought I couldn't/wasn't supposed to pursue the lead player route. So I've yet to really try and it's always bugged me. It's actually kind of subtlety frowned upon to be a female trumpet player unless you're the hot blonde type. And I'm certainly not that. It's very rare that a guy finds me visually attractive. But that's beside the point.

The point is that most things I am and am interested in is supposedly "inappropriate" for a female. I really resent being female, to the point that I've been asked multiple times whether I'm transgendered. Maybe I'm something non-binary, but I'm not transgendered. There are times I really wish I could magically switch body parts and switch back…it's hard to explain.

I've had a hard time figuring out my identity (beyond gender) and where I fit in the world (somewhere in music, but that's about as specific as it gets) and it's probably hard to relate to others who all know where they're going, many of them are married, etc.

I've also noticed (tonight actually) that I'll have something to say and not feel particularly anxious about saying it and yet not say it. I'm not sure why. There's plenty of pause in the conversation too, but I just let other people speak until someone says something directly to me.

Are music and politics related somehow? Because at first you said it was a music issue, but then you said it's a political issue.

I wouldn't sacrifice a core belief just to get friends. Being grounded on something is important. Actually, I think being grounded on something is a source of self-confidence. Changing how to communicate with people is different than changing your core character. Tomorrow you will finish your PhD, and will face another group of people with other beliefs and interests. If you keep following the "majority", you will ever be following the crowd, and you will never be yourself.

Because you said you don't know when it's your turn to speak, it seemed as if you miss social cues, that's why I suspected Asperger. But I'm not a professional. If you don't miss social cues, may be it's a low self-esteem issue. I'm eager to find people to connect with, but the moment I find someone, I feel disappointed and disconnected. I'm not sure if you feel the same way.

Do you have specific traits in people with whom you want to connect with? Like education, be interested in your type of music, ... etc.

Originally Posted by Wandering Soul

I'm eager to find people to connect with, but the moment I find someone, I feel disappointed and disconnected. I'm not sure if you feel the same way.

I for one definitely feel this way. I did have to come to the harsh realization lately that most of my friend group and I didn't actually have the kind of mutuality that most friends do. Meaning I realized they were probably hanging out with me out of convenience, because I always asked them to, and/or they felt sorry for me. Maybe not so much the last one, but I don't think there was a great desire in them to actually be my friend. It was more just proximity. And my T asked me when the last time I can remember having a truly supportive, mutual group of friends was and I couldn't actually remember. Seems it's always been this way, that I kind of latch onto people who will just...let me do so. And then I become resentful that they don't actually treat me like a true, solid friend would.

I don't know if this makes sense at all. I do have a couple of people who I can say are friends, and I think from here on I will be more careful about choosing quality over quantity (even though I didn't really have quantity, either). OP...does any of this seem familiar?