[Wounded Father73]

So I’m writing because I’m not sure what else to do or how to handle things at this point. I just found out that my daughter who will be graduating HS in just over a month doesn’t want me or my wife to attend her graduation ceremony at the school with the rest of the family. My Dad & Step Mother she says are ok, My Mom and Step father are good, My Sister is ok her mother is great but my wife and I are not to be included. A little back story if you will or just more information. The divorce took place about 9 years ago and I remarried a little more than four years ago. During the time after the divorce my ex continued to have a relationship and was treated as ‘family’ by my mother and siblings. I didn’t make a big deal out of it because hey if they want to be friends with someone it isn’t my place to prevent that, also in my mind I figured things would change and stop once I settled into a new relationship. Oh how wrong I was. Suffice it to say that after several instances where my current spouse and myself were put in positions to decide to either make a scene or do what we could to ignore the fact that my Ex was attending events like: Fathers day, Christmas, Thanksgiving dinner, and basically every other family event, My wife and I spoke up to the family indicating that we didn’t think that it was appropriate for my ex to attend and that is was disrespectful to myself and my current spouse. After several attempts at trying to make the point ultimately it was decided that rather than trying to change someone else that the only way in which to effect any change was to not attend these events ourselves. So when we get invited to mothers day for example we politely decline as we know my ex was invited as well. The argument from my mother who is the ‘ring leader’ of all this says that “she can invite who she wants to her inclusive events and she won’t exclude my ex just because we want her to be excluded.” & “you should get over it because your ex has no problem being here and your daughter is ok with it so you and your wife should be” I could go on and on however that is not what I’m really seeking help or input on. Of course any insight wouldn’t be turned away as I’ve been told that I’m immature in thinking that when I got divorced that my ex should no longer be part of the ‘family’ as well. But the main thing in which I am wanting input on is that my daughter who will be graduating and has a limited number of seats for her graduation had decided that her grandparents (both of which are my remarried parents) and my sister should attend the ceremony in the main room and that anyone else should attend in the ‘remote site’ room that includes myself. A little more information that I think is important, My ex and I have/had joint custody and my daughter spent more time at my home than with her mom until a job change caused a move last year and she then turned 18 in which she decided that I shouldn’t be a part of her life (unless she needs money or a ride to school). Mom/ex has been what others have referred to a “Disneyland Mom” where she gives daughter most everything she wants and places no known restrictions or boundaries upon her. I on the other hand have clear expectations of all the children and expect them to participate in chores like helping with babysitting, dishes, laundry or other in my opinion age appropriate items. There are two teenagers and one toddler between my wife and I and we expect the same things for both teens and of course less from the toddler. Both my wife and I come from divorced families and had some similar experiences that we swore we wouldn’t let happen in our house things like not talking about or saying bad things about the other parent, regardless of our feelings or thoughts on that person or their SO, or things like not allowing the kids to play one parent against the other, though I still think they do we haven’t given in at our house. Anyway back to where I’m looking for help, is it wrong of me to speak up and say that inviting my mother father & their spouses is ok but my sister is out of line when I and my wife are excluded because of her attendance? My sister btw has contributed nothing to helping my daughter through school or with anything but an occasional babysitting when daughter was young. Or should I as someone told me just let my daughter pick who she wants and let her have her day with who she wants attending? I know that this is just one side of the story and I really have done what I can to portray things as accurately and shortly as I can. There is much much more than shared here right now I just am lost and wondering where I went wrong….

[healingme4me]

Having a sit down discussion with your daughter seems justified. Where has the rift begun? I read about disneyland motherhood, yet am missing why your own mother has allowed such a rift to continue. Alienation of parents is just avoidable in most cases. Barring of course those that act in abandonment, etc.

I've seen instances of ex wives remaining family and civil with new wives/step parents of the children. Mother of the child is a big deal in numerous cultures.

Did your lack of attendance with your families events cause this between yourself and daughter?

[Wounded Father73]

Originally Posted by healingme4me

Having a sit down discussion with your daughter seems justified. Where has the rift begun? I read about disneyland motherhood, yet am missing why your own mother has allowed such a rift to continue. Alienation of parents is just avoidable in most cases. Barring of course those that act in abandonment, etc.

I've seen instances of ex wives remaining family and civil with new wives/step parents of the children. Mother of the child is a big deal in numerous cultures.

Did your lack of attendance with your families events cause this between yourself and daughter?

I would agree that a sit down is appropriate and even necessary especially at this point. Though when this has happened in the past it ended up that I am remarried and daughter doesn't want my wife involved in anything. (which I disagree as to being appropriate) My own mothers position on everything is that my wife and I should get over the fact that my ex wife is included in family events and we disagree that we should have to feel uncomfortable and even unwelcome so that my ex can participate as well. Anyone else I have fully described things too has said it is wrong of my mother to continue to 'force' my ex upon me and my new family.
Is this a part of the rift between my daughter and I? Yeah I could see the issue between my mother and I as becoming part of the issue since by me/us asking to exclude daughters mother if including me that she may interpret that we didn't want daughter there however, to be fair the request was made that when we had daughter it was us and when ex had daughter it was her so that daughter could participate either way but that wasn't acceptable to my mom (grandma from now on) and she continued to invite and make a point that we knew ex was invited even if she didn't have daughter. As I know the only person who someone can change is themselves my wife and I decided that it was best to just not attend any events they held and even had several occurrences where we then held events that ended up in more fights and arguments with grandma as the only way to think is grandmas unless you wanted a fight. We were told that since grandma was invited to grand sons birthday party and other life events for the grand children where she had to associate with her ex it was no different that she was including mine so to get over it. So much drama it just is best to keep grandma as far out of the picture as possible in our opinion, it doesn't stop us from trying to give recognition to her when appropriate. We just don't go to the events or grandmas house for visits.

[divine1966]

I am close with my ex's family but I don't attend every event at their house. That's crazy. It is rude towards my ex's wife and it's stupid. I do see my ex mother in law as we would meet for coffee etc or at big events but it's crazy to be there at every event, does your ex not have a life??!

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[healingme4me]

I'm with Divine. I'm one of the invited exes, but not to everything nor would I want that. My adult nephew has an ex wife that is close with his second wife. But neither situation occured overnight. The nephew and his wife were as wanted at the birth of their first grandchild as the exwife and daughter's mother. There's other exes within my exes family that have been extended the same courtesy and welcome.
My dad's family also extended courtesy to exes. My maternal gram always remained in contact with an exgf of my uncle's, but never to create discomfort, she really connected to my gram as extended in a familial sense and vice versa.
I agree that insistence in your case is unfair.
Granted it is your daughter's choice, at the same time such choices leave long lasting marks on relationships. There's give and take. A father deserves an invite over an aunt, unless the aunt raised her which isn't the case.

[IceCreamKid]

You are writing about your daughter's mother. That is probably why the woman has been included in so many situations. There may be some undercurrent there too--did your mother disapprove of the divorce? Or of your choice for a second wife? Is your ex-wife still single and alone? Or it could be that your mother simply enjoys exercising her own power to choose the people she likes at the events she holds.

I'd accept my daughter's decision gracefully and then invite her to go out to a celebratory lunch or dinner at some point after the graduation, just you and your daughter and step-mom, if she gets along with daughter.

The best advice I can give to a parent is give what you want to give and are able to give, love unconditionally and don't count grievances.

[Cavegirl]

Originally Posted by IceCreamKid

You are writing about your daughter's mother. That is probably why the woman has been included in so many situations. There may be some undercurrent there too--did your mother disapprove of the divorce? Or of your choice for a second wife? Is your ex-wife still single and alone? Or it could be that your mother simply enjoys exercising her own power to choose the people she likes at the events she holds.

I'd accept my daughter's decision gracefully and then invite her to go out to a celebratory lunch or dinner at some point after the graduation, just you and your daughter and step-mom, if she gets along with daughter.

The best advice I can give to a parent is give what you want to give and are able to give, love unconditionally and don't count grievances.

I am very much in agreement with Kid. That first sentence is very powerful, and a very true statement. This is the mother of your child.
There is an "ex", as you put it, in my rather large family. She was married to my cousin, the two of them have two amazing children together. They separated in 2003 and eventually divorced. She is invited to everything, not once has she ever been excluded. Reason being, she is family. She is part of our family. She is an integral part of the family.
I am certain that my cousin has felt many of the same feelings that you are feeling. In regards to the children, they are younger than me, but not by much. One was in his young teens and the other a pre-teen when the separation occurred. They were not blind. Just because certain issues weren't brought up in front of them, doesn't mean that they didn't know what was going on around them, that they couldn't feel tension.
Maybe it is time for you and your daughter to have a truly heartfelt one on one conversation. Listen to her feelings. To her, you are the adult. I know for me, at that age - a female teenager, adults/parents were ultimately my enemies. I was never asked about my feelings. I'm not even certain that I'd have been able to completely express them at the time, but, I knew I felt certain ways about a lot of things. Perhaps your daughter will be unable to properly express herself - or maybe she may not want to. Either way it will bring forth a mutual awareness to a longstanding issue, that is now beginning to show itself in different forms.

[Wounded Father73]

Thank you all for the input.
In response to a couple of the comments, of course since she is my daughters mother I fully and wholeheartedly expect that anything in which it is relating to our daughter that she attends. It is the 'family' events that are not specific to my daughter in which I and my wife take issue with. I think most if not all of you ex have indicated you don't think it was appropriate to go to everything however my ex doesn't have that 'filter" if you will. As I continue to ponder things it seems that by grandma saying that she is being inclusive and it is wrong for me to desire some exclusion that daughter feels it is ok for her to also exclude step-mom as appropriate "retaliation" for us wanting her mom excluded. It is just a theory at this time and without having anyone else standing up to say anything different I'm not sure how it would test out.
Again I am not saying that I want my ex to not associate with or be a part of anything relating to our daughter. More that I am not sure how to overcome the loss that has come from the continuation of support for not including myself or my wife.

[divine1966]

Both I and ex attend events that pertain to our daughter such as graduation or her wedding etc we don't attend events that are just get togethers at ex's family house, that is beyond crazy. And we are on friendly terms with him gee

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[healingme4me]

I do like the idea of a dinner at a later date to celebrate, since it would appear by the calendar that graduations are soon to occur accross the country. It's probably no solace but it's a compromise.

I can certainly see the point about your daughter being given mixed signals due to the dynamics of everything.

As far as my own invites with my kids paternal family, I stick to the majors, such as a recent baby shower, an upcoming sweet 16, plus the birthday of a cousin that truly looked forward to their presence and their father was at work. I think there's even an upcoming wedding, fair enough since I had invited her own mother to mine albeit being long divorced from her father.
I keep my own major holidays typically, including Mother's Day :\

[Cavegirl]

Hello again.
May I ask what type of relationship you have with your daughter? I sense an apprehension on your part to have a heart to heart. She is likely the only one that will be able to enlighten you. This will ultimately cast aside the assumptions, and bring you some real answers. You do deserve these answers. You are clearly very hurt. You are absolutely allowed to hurt. I wasn't the greatest communicator in my teen years...not much better now. Please, approach her and ask her how she feels and why she feels the way she does. Maybe the answers will be unpleasant, or maybe they won't. Teen years are rough. Being a teenage girl is extremely difficult. Ask her how she feels...

[Wounded Father73]

Originally Posted by Cavegirl

Hello again.
May I ask what type of relationship you have with your daughter? I sense an apprehension on your part to have a heart to heart. She is likely the only one that will be able to enlighten you. This will ultimately cast aside the assumptions, and bring you some real answers. You do deserve these answers. You are clearly very hurt. You are absolutely allowed to hurt. I wasn't the greatest communicator in my teen years...not much better now. Please, approach her and ask her how she feels and why she feels the way she does. Maybe the answers will be unpleasant, or maybe they won't. Teen years are rough. Being a teenage girl is extremely difficult. Ask her how she feels...

My relationship with my daughter has been more strained and challenging as she has gotten older. Even more so after getting re-married and having wife tell daughter that she will not accept, herself or me, being back talked or mistreated by her. Of course I supported this decision and stance as well. Up until the time when she turned 18 I 'forced' daughter to attend visitation trying to get her to a point of understanding that things are not as bad as daughter is trying to portray them but with few exceptions attitude and actions from daughter ended up having negative impact on the rest of the family or visit. Of course the portrayal of daughters actions to others she then gets 'support' and even 'encouragement' from them at least until a time in which I am able to share the rest of the situation but by that time with the strained relationship I have with grandma it is usually many months later if at all. I don't expect daughter to have great communication skills as she still is learning them and is pretty young to have that great of them so I work with as much of what I see and have knowledge of her as I have done since she was a baby.

[Cavegirl]

dear wounded father...
i wish i could offer up further advice...but it's a very deep situation.
perhaps setting up "exclusive" father/daughter time is something to consider...without the wife.
i'm a stepmom...if i were excluded from "father/daughter" time...i would in no way be offended, ever, ever, ever.
baby steps.