If people can't choose or change their personality...

You have ADHD?

Sorry I never saw you state you were diagnosed by a professional with the above MI.

I must have missed it.

This is an article about ADHD. What is that to do with you being discriminated? . Do you have ADHD? ADHD has nothing to do with intelligence or social skills. You periodically claim to have various disabilities yet you don't seek professional help and don't seek true diagnosis. You claim to be autistic then "slow" (not even a proper thing to say), then ADHD?

I asked you for specific examples of people mistreating/discriminating/disrespecting you because of social awkwardness and as you claim lack of intelligence? By people I mean others than your brother. Could you provide specific examples? You keep saying how people disrespect you but you never provide examples. The only example you had is your brother but he hardly represent "most" people or "society". So what exactly do they do?

I was diagnosed with mild ADHD as a child and put on medications briefly, but there were side effects so my parents and doctor decided the medications weren't worth it. Or at least thats what my mom said happened. Now I am thinking that decision screwed up my life. I have been reading about ADHD and it basically explains all my problems. People with ADHD are often socially ostracized in thir childhood and end up developing low self esteem and personality disorders later. This leads to further ostracism and failure later in life. I firmly believe that I have been cheated out of the life I deserve and I will never accept it.

ADHD is extremely common. Half of my students have it and heck several of my colleagues. I exhibit signs of it as well (not enough for diagnosis and it's clouded by some signs of OCD again not enough for diagnosis). You can address it with your doctor and if you have ADHD you'd have symptoms in adulthood. You can't change your childhood but you can make changes now.

Most people will not openly disrespect me, but their true feelings still come out in the way they talk about other guys who are just like me. For example, when I hear people describing socially awkward gamer nerds who don't get girls as "losers", I know immediately they indeed see me as a "loser", even if I have never met them or talked to them. Sometimes you have to connect the dots.

Connecting those kinds of dots won't serve you well. My husband is a gamer nerd and I'm proud of it. He's a little socially awkward and so am I. We are two peas in a weird little pod and would have it no other way.

You will meet your Yoko Ono. Keep being you and make changes only if they are for your betterment and to offer more fulfillment in life.

Them talking about other guys have nothing to do with you. You yourself talk about many people very negatively.

Also who are these people that discuss some nerdy gamers. Are they important to you? Are they discussing it with you or you are just overhearing them? So if you have never met or talk to these people, why does their opinion matter? And again what are the circumstances of you overhearing these strangers?

If you are a gamer then why not find groups of like minded people? My husband is a bit of a gamer and a nerd lol and is on awkward side (he actually does have formal life long diagnosis). He knows plenty of gamers like him. I am neither awkward nor a gamer but who the heck cares. We don't need to be all the same

If you don't start asking women out and joint social groups and getting professional help, you mind end up complaining about same thing 20 years from now. Get the ball rolling now

All your points on social awkwardness and slow whatever it is you call it, has nothing at all to do with adhd. Those things you've just said above about how OFTEN adhd sufferers are OSTRACIZED etc I'd like to see your citations for this.

People with disabilities are ostracized by society. It's very devistating and a very real phenomenon with lots of studies and research to read.

Here is an interesting article

The Social Death Penalty: Why Being Ostracized Hurts Even More Than Bullying | Alternet

Elsa, YES. I do not have a chance to read the whole thing right now, but this article seems to share the exact same sentiments I am always trying to express. I actually have always known that social ostracism is worse than bullying, in fact when I say bullying I usually mean social ostracism, because bullying without social ostracism is trivial in comparison. We seem to be on the exact same page. I wish more people started waking to these FACTS.

Yes it hurts to be frozen out, and some of us are a little different from the norm in how we think and communicate.

As I have got older my differences have mattered less and less to me, I have tended to gravitate to those who are a little different from the norm too because I find them more interesting and a better fit for me. The fact is I find those who would ostracise and freeze out rather dull.

I don't know how old you are but I hope that you can grow to feel more at ease with yourself, and truly not worry about what others think.

This may sound trite, but I try to operate under the assumption that what other people think of me is not my business.

There are so many people and places. I'm always meeting new friends. If nobody likes you, the problem is you. It's not about being slow. You must be putting something out that is unlikable, disagreeable, a nasty, bad personality. THAT you can change.

I have not read any of the other responses. But in short, it's not fair to judge them for their social awkwardness. Why do you think that it is?

People who judge other people, in general, for anything, are, IMO, jerks with low self esteem and need to make fun of others to feel good about themselves.

No one deserves to be judged for anything, other than an employer judging an employee's work performance or a jury determining the fate of an accused criminal.

I am sorry you are experiencing this kind of judgmentalness in your life. No, it is not fair or right. But some people are jerks. You have to learn that the only opinion you should care about is yours.

Good luck,
seesaw

No one should accept being treated like trash. I think saying the problem is your personality is a little bit of a generalization. I doubt the problem is your personality, the problem, rather, to me, is your discomfort with yourself. You sound like you don't like the kind of person you are.

It is possible to change aspects of your personality. Or, I guess, it's possible to be aware of shortcomings in your personality and learn how to cope with those shortcomings, although I wouldn't even call them shortcomings. You just need to be comfortable with who you are and not put yourself in situations where you would expect yourself to be different.

I'll give an example: I'm not a hugely sociable person. I do like to socialize but only in certain environments. I've learned this about myself so I don't put myself in those kind of environments that make me feel really uncomfortable and that are really no fun for me. So, I love going to a friend's house for a private party of friends, relaxing and chatting. In fact, I have learned that I like this environment enough that I actually threw my very first party last night, and we had a blast.

But I know too that I hate music festivals and rock concerts and big public events. I do have to go to these kind of events for work, and I can do it in a work capacity, but just for my own pleasure, it's not fun for me. So I avoid those situations, or if I am interested in an event but know it's a venue that I will be uncomfortable in, I just plan to go for a few minutes, scope out specific vendors, then get out of there.

I have friends who can go to bars by themselves and have a great time. I can't do that. But I don't find myself at fault for that; it's just not my personality.

Maybe you are putting yourself into social situations that just aren't fun for you and trying to make yourself into a kind of person that you're not. You have to learn to socialize with your friends on your terms and be comfortable saying, I can only stay for a few minutes, or even saying, hey that's not my scene, but see you later.

I really just feel you need to understand and accept yourself more.

Seesaw

I deal with lots of different groups of people in my job, my volunteering, and personal life. Your views of what society thinks are way off. Maybe you should stop hanging out with this group of people you hang out with. They sound very toxic. Society does not teach us that certain people are simply less than others. I was never taught that. If anything, what I have experienced in society is that many people are extremely empathetic and charitable and don't believe in judging others based on personal circumstance. Yes, we get judged on work performance, we get judged for crimes, and other things that are specifically going to be judged. But let me tell you, since I've been sick, I have gained 70lbs and my skin has gone to hell. Not once have I felt that a co-worker or friend has judged me for this. (A family member who is extremely toxic and whom I no longer talk to made a nasty comment, but I don't talk to them anymore.)

I don't think the problem is society. The problem is this very skewed view of society you have, and I think also the people you are hanging out with. You need new friends and a new social circle.

Good luck,
seesaw

Wow. Look, tough love here. Everyone on this site has issues with their parents and what they did or did not do or provide. At this point, you are and adult, and you must take responsibility for yourself and anything you want out of life. If you want your life to be different, it's up to YOU to change it. Not your parents.

Yeah, I do see your points. Read through the article when you have a chance. Lots of good information there and you have to be careful not to let anger consume you or turn you into a person who hates certain groups of people because they have ostracized you. It's common to do so and you need to fight against it. I really think counseling is just a good idea going forward for you and I also agree with an above poster that it will change and get easier the older you get. You will become more accustomed to yourself which will increase your overall value of yourself. You will learn more about your positive traits and find the people you do fit in with and start paying more attention to the people who are kind, than to the people who are jerks.

One socially ostracized,awkward gamer nerd here, with a veritable anthology of social disorders ,anxieties and mental health issues.
I have had to work REALLY hard to get away from the type of obsessive cyclical thinking you are encumbered with but when I did it was the best thing ever, because other people had opinions and either I don't care or I can relate and recognise then release. Moving on to the next topic.
It wasn't easy but accepting you can't live hoping it's others that will change is the biggest step.

All the best Shadix, I kinda smile when I see your threads come up. Watching u rant about the negative, callous,ignorant unfeeling bullies. Then watch some of the nicest most considerate, patient people offer you their time, and advice. Often the same people, which goes to show a genuine level of consideration on their part. Yet each time you trample rough shod in blind denial right over the top of them.
Yet they stay and try to help.

So thanks guys for shining your guiding lights, some of us do hear you.

But that's the thing, most people say you cannot change your personality, and that trying to do so will make you come off as fake and manufactured.

I would not say that nobody likes me. Lots of people do. But that's besides the point. It is possible for people to "like" you and still see you as a loser.

And are you suggesting that people only dislike you if you are mean and nasty and that if you are nice, they will like you? Because that has not been my experience at all. In my experience, you could be the nicest person on the planet, but if people perceive as dumb or awkward, they will often dislike you. Not everyone, there are some people who are not judgmental, but lots of people. Especially young people. I typically avoid this because I tend to not put myself out there around most people. But sometimes my awkwardness and "ditziness" shine through and it seems to really annoy some people.

Have you seen the new Ghostbusters movie? The way the characters respond to the character Kevin is such a good example of what I am talking about. He is basically this really good looking guy who turns out to be extremely dumb and clumsy. The ladies in the movie can't stand him. It was actually uncomfortable for me to watch because I identified so much with him and his social interactions. He is not "unlikable", "disagreeable" or "nasty", he is just slow. And people don't like that. My social awkwardness might be because of social anxiety, but the social anxiety is brought on by the rational fear of coming off as dumb and being disliked.

You perceive yourself as dumb yet nothing in your way of writing indicates you being dumb in any shape or form. As it's been said many times you need to seek professional help. There is something missing. Without knowing you irl we can't know for sure. Professional will be able to test/observe and hopefully have some type of idea how to improve

From how I see you on here, you are intelligent, overly serious, highly philosophical, wants to debate your issue to death. I don't see any sense of humor. I don't see any zest for life from you. I don't see someone with a sense of fun. I do see that you are nice. You respond to everyone eventually with thoughtful response, debating your point to the death and unrelenting to see it from anyone else's POV.

With that being said, you are an acquired taste. There are people who will gravitate to you and like, even love you. Me, personally, I'd probably jump from a moving car to escape your endless, pointless debate.

I did see Ghostbusters, and understand what you mean. They were turned on by his good looks, but turned off by his stupidity. You are not stupid. Are you so anxious around pretty girls that you start acting like you are really stupid?

Let's talk about that and move away from this endless philosophical argument about generalizing how people don't respect others, yada yada yada...

Agree with others, you are not stupid, that much is clear from your posts.

I do get it if you find it easier to express yourself in writing, I am like that too. Sometimes I get too caught up in my own thoughts my words trip me up IRL, maybe you are like that too. Personally I have found good friends are very forgiving of all my oddities and foibles - and as for what others think I don't care, neither should you.

This is a long post, I know, but I urge you to read it, Shadix. I used to feel the same way you do. I used to be on the outside looking in wondering how to gain admittance to what I saw as an exclusive club, wondering what I was doing wrong, what I seemed to be missing that everyone else got, wondering why me. I was miserable, lonely, and bitter. That is not what my life is like today.

I can relate to a lot of what you say. I used to not understand why I was so awkward and could not fit into society, but I have found many answers since finally being diagnosed with Asperger's/ASD three years ago. And yes, well meaning people used to tell me my problem was my "personality" and/or "attitude" and flawed views on "society". A lot of what I've read in this thread are misunderstandings I've been fighting my whole life.

Yes, there is such a thing as society, and it is exclusive. It doesn't seem exclusive, because it comprises 98 or 99 percent of people, but it is damned exclusive to that other 1 or 2 percent. Society is very protective and has a lot of built in defense mechanisms, e.g.

• accusing the accuser: point out that society is judgemental, and the first thing that happens is people say you are the one being judgemental. -- how many times hove you seen someone speak out against bigotry and then get called a bigot because they are 'discriminating' against the opinions of racists, sexists, homophobes or whatnot. It's the grown up version of "I know you are, but what am I".
• the forest-for-the-trees defense: "you can't base your views of society on the behaviors of the few you have encountered." -- Okay, with 7.5 billion people on the planet, it's safe to say that any one person has only interacted with a very small minority, but that minority is still easily hundreds if not thousands of people; and with many of the same views we encounter on a day to day basis being echoed online and in news and entertainment media, it's pretty safe to surmise that those views are fairly prevalent in society as a whole.
• outright denial: "there is no such thing as 'society' that determines who is fit and who is not, who to include and who to exclude; don't worry if one person doesn't like you, because someone else will". -- Anyone who thinks that their actions and thoughts and feelings are completely determined by the individual and in no part by society and culture is too immersed in society and culture to understand it, and trying to explain it to them is like trying to explain water to a fish.

There are many more, but those are the most prevalent. And while it's easy to feel like you are being attacked when you run into these defense mechanisms, it's important to remember that they are not attacks, this is just the way the majority of people actually perceive the world around them, because while you are on the outside looking in, they are on the inside unaware that there even is an outside.

Yes, society exists, and it influences the way we think, feel, act and interact. Yes, it is exclusive against those with perceived differences, and its methods of exclusion are brutal... labeling, ostracism, discrimination, bullying, and abuse.

I moved around a lot growing up (army brat). I am highly intelligent. I am also, at my adult height, only 5'5". So in my classes I was always the new guy, the smart guy, and the short guy. Any one of those things is enough to make one the target of bullying and alienation, and that's not even taking into account that I also grew up with undiagnosed autism. It sucked. To this day I still bear scars, both physical and emotional.

But(!)...

I overcame it. And I am better for it. In fact, my life today would probably not be so good had I been one of the popular kids. I learned so much-- and overcame so much-- in my journey from wanting to be like everyone else to accepting and eventually embracing my differences. And I want you to do the same.

You see, another deep and prevalent misunderstanding that I have seen reflected in this thread is actually right in the title. You can change your personality. Think about what "personality" is for a moment: the characteristic patterns of thoughts, feelings, and behaviors (actions) that make a person unique. Thoughts. Feelings. Actions. Of the three, your actions are easiest to change because they are more consciously determined. Thoughts and feelings may seem like they arise independently, but notice the first word: patterns. Our patterns of thought and our emotions are basically just neural pathways. They are reinforced over time the more we use them. But, just like learning a new skill, we can consciously create new neural pathways and over time reinforce those so that they become our new pattern. This is what is happening in our brains when we engage in anything from therapy to learning a new language to quitting smoking. Not only is it possible, we do it all the time. The common misconception is that our thoughts and feelings determine our actions, when it's in fact the other way around.

Do you want to be less socially awkward? Do you want to take control of your life? Do you want to go from being unaccepted to being the guy others seek acceptance from? It can happen. I did it, and you can, too.

Is this starting to feel like a sales pitch? Like I'll soon ask you to subscribe to my newsletter or buy my book or sign up for one of my seminars? Good. It's not a pitch, and I am not going to do those things, but I want you to want to change. I want you to be willing to pay whatever it costs, to do whatever it takes to be the person you were born to be. Not to change who you are, but to become the best possible you you can be. Why do I want that? Because it's awesome. I can't tell you how great it feels. And because that's part of the program-- helping others helps me.

Did you read my response to your post on charisma in the Asperger's and autism forum? I left some of what I think are the best tips for learning charisma. If you've read that, some of the following might be familiar.

So, without further ado, here is my recipe for overcoming social awkwardness:

1. Learn stage presence. Take a public speaking course; join a community theater; do some poetry reading or standup comedy or even karaoke. By all means, feel free to practice beforehand in front of a mirror or with friends or family. But don't wait until you think you are ready. Get up on that stage no matter how sweaty your palms are or what kind of acrobatic flips your stomach is doing. Because A) when you're on that stage, you aren't you; you are a character, and B) even if you bomb, you are one up on anyone who boos or laughs because you had the guts to get up there and try-- especially if you do blow it and try again.
2. Get physical. A big part of social interaction is body language, and a big part of social awkwardness is physical awkwardness. Learn to be comfortable in your own body and how to move through the world with grace and confidence. Working out is good, but you should also engage in activities that involve/improve coordination and balance. I practice martial arts, primarily goju karate, wing chun kung fu, and krav maga. I also like skydiving and surfing, because they really put you in touch not only with your own body but with your environment. Jumping out of airplanes may be just a tiny bit extreme for some people, but there are thousands of activities you can choose from here, from competitive frisbee to dancing to parkour.
3. Practice open posture. Want to be the big man on campus? Make yourself big. Head high. Shoulders back. Arms open. Palms out. And smile. Not a big toothy terminator grin, a genuine smile, one you do more with your eyes than your mouth. Smile like you've just spotted a friend you haven't seen in a while.
4. Slow down. I'm going to guess that you don't so much walk as speed-walk when you're in public. Probably with your head down and your hands in your pockets. Maybe you don't, but this is something socially awkward people tend to do. Because being in public isn't comfortable, and we want it to be over as quickly as possible, and why are there so many people here, and why are they all in my way, and I bet they're all staring at me (are they all staring at me?) like they can see how socially awkward I am? ... Yeah. That's the old me. That's still me in my natural state. But not when I'm in character. Not when I'm on. In addition to open posture, learn to walk with the kind of easy confidence that exudes charisma. And that means slowing down. Don't speed-walk, just walk. Hell, don't even walk; strut. If someone makes eye contact with you, give them a wink or a nod, or even a casual "how ya doin'?". Stroll leisurely through life. People are more at ease around people who are themselves at ease rather than just in a rush to be anywhere else. And once you've slowed down, take the time to...
5. Compliment at least one random person each day. This is actually amazing. I started doing this a while back, and now I can barely go anywhere without people greeting me and engaging me in conversation. I get discounts at a lot of places I shop and eat. I've gotten free deserts at restaurants, landed business opportunities, and even had one woman try to set me up on a date with her daughter. All because I paid people genuine compliments... which made an immediate personal connection. The key is the compliment must be genuine. The woman that thought her daughter should date me? She always has music playing while she's working, and she has a great ear for music. Overhearing it just lifts me up when its the end of the day and I'm beat and I'm stopping in the store to pick up a few things I just have to get on my way home. The discount at the sushi restaurant? Best dragon roll I've ever had. Ever. And I made sure to tell the the waitress so... Turned out it's a family operation, and her mother not only made that dragon roll, but also owns the place. (And I make up for the discount by tipping heavy.) The magic of complimenting people is that it's not only good practice for building charisma; it is actually putting jedi master level charisma into practice, and you can start doing this now. People like to be liked. When you pay them a genuine compliment, they automatically like you. When people like you, you naturally connect with them easier and become more relaxed around them, and when you're relaxed and connected, you are naturally more charismatic.
6. Let yourself make mistakes. No one says or does the right thing all the time. Even people who always seem to say or do the right thing all the time don't say or do the right thing all the time. And that's okay. You tell a joke, and no one laughs; you accidentally insult someone; you think of just the thing to say in a conversation ten minutes after the conversation is over... you know what that makes you? Human. If no one laughs at your joke, make a joke about it ("Wow. Seriously? Nobody? Good thing I didn't tell the one about the priest, the minister, and the rabbi. That one's way worse.") If you accidentally insult or offend someone, apologize. It's that simple. The main thing is, don't isolate yourself for fear of making a mistake. Go ahead and make those mistakes. At worst, you learn from them. At best, people will find your genuineness endearing. (Really. A coworker once introduced me to a woman. As I shook her hand, he told me she was a cop. "Well," I said, "that explains your manly grip." She had a strong grip, sure, but not the best compliment I could have given her even if my stupid brain had not settled on the word 'manly'. "Um, yeah, he's a little autistic," my coworker told the woman-- who was actually still smiling. Then he turns to me and says, "Don't worry, she's cool. She's just like one of the guys, except with double D's." I gave her an... um... appraising... look and with a big grin said, "Well, more like a full C, but I get the point." She and I are friends to this day.)
7. Play the character you want to be. A lot of what holds us back (in all aspects of life) is our self perception. If you have a perception of yourself as socially awkward, that's what you will be. Your perception may be based on a thousand mistakes you've made in social situations, or having actually been called socially awkward, or just feeling like your guts are tied in knots when you are talking to someone, but it is still just a perception. The thing is, it does tend to be self reinforcing. The way to subvert this is not to change your self perception... well, it is, but that's almost impossible to do rapidly, so what you need to do is be someone else, someone who isn't socially awkward. Someone who is relaxed and confident, who exudes charisma and power. And where does that power and confidence come from? From the fact that you know a deep, dark secret about each and every person you encounter. Don't you? Well, I do, and I'm going to share that secret with you.
8. Make your social interactions about other people, not about you. And here's the secret-- deep down, everyone else is just as awkward as you. Seriously, this is the root of charisma, and it's what I meant earlier when I said that helping you helps me: we're all awkward, and we're all terrified that everyone is gonna find out, and it is your job to put people at ease.

There are many other things I could add, but these are the major ones. Let me emphasize that when I talk about playing a character, I don't mean act like a specific movie or TV character, or act like someone you aren't. Authenticity is a big part of charisma. I mean you should act like the you you want to be. A calm, confident you. A charismatic you. You can watch youtube videos and read self help books all day long, but you can only really learn charisma through practice. No one was born a social maven; some people learn quickly, while some of us could spend our whole lives trying to figure it out and get nowhere. We all play various roles as we go through our days and our lives. Whether at work, school, the gym, the beach, church, skydiving, in traffic court, at a family reunion, whatever... we dress the part and act the part. So why not go for the leading role?

And speaking of leading roles and why I feel qualified to give this advice, as stated before, I was once the picked on, bullied, short, awkward nerd, but through eventually learning and putting into practice these habits, I completely changed my life. Today, I own my own successful business and will be splitting it into three separate businesses as well as starting a non-profit in the upcoming year. I interact with partners, customers, and employees on a daily basis. I also deal with lawyers, accountants, politicians, and the press. I work with non-profit organizations and do a lot of public speaking for various social and political causes. A few years ago, I was approached about running for state representative, which required a petition to get on the ballot. Two weeks latter, the group that approached me brought me that petition... with nearly 10 times the amount of signatures required. I did not win that election, but I made a pretty decent showing. And because I dealt with all that ostracism and bullying in the past,because I built not only my business but also my life from the ground up, I know I can overcome any hardship. Rejection doesn't bother me, failure doesn't bother me; I welcome those things, because I didn't fail, I wasn't rejected. An idea or plan might fail or get rejected, but that only means there is room for improvement. Just like the way you interact with people and the environment... failure and rejection only mean there is room for improvement, opportunity for growth. That's the reality you need to accept and embrace. Failure and rejection are opportunity. Falling on your butt is good, because it means you aren't sitting on it. The only real way to fail is by not getting back up and trying again, and the only person who can truly reject you... is you.

By the way, that priest minister rabbi joke goes like this: A priest, a minister, and a rabbi walk into a bar. The bartender looks at them and says, "What the hell is this, a joke?"