The HOW of forgiveness? Anyone know?

For me, it is just how my brain works. I have never had an issue with regret, and grudges. Eventually my disappointment or anger wears off. However, I have never met someone that did something truly atrocious.

Thank you. Yes I believe you are completely correct! He couldn’t appreciate me.

You can refer to your own thread, “Value and Self-worth Do Not Depend on How Others Treat You, Especially Abusers”. . You are going around in circles on this.

I really don’t know what forgiveness is. For me it’s just a gradual letting go of the anger over time. That’s the best I’ve been able to do.

Indicative of my emotional state!!!!!

@TishaBuv, sorry, i wasn’t yelling at you .. I realize how that sounded.. just emphasizing that I’ve been a mess over it. Yes perhaps going in circles.

I don’t know how to fix myself. I don’t know how to not tie my feelings of self worth to someone I loved who tried to squash it.

Maybe there is no fixing me. Maybe I’m just broken after that relationship.

Isn't that what it really comes down to? You feel like you should know, but you don't. You feel like you should be above this, but you're not, it doesn't go away. Isn't that just a way of trying to deny how it feels? Aren't you just trying to tell yourself, well fine, if he says he didn't love me, then I didn't love him either?

It's OK not to know. To be hurt is to be human, you don't always have to be above it and a lot of times you can't. This is where you really have to be gentle with, and patient with yourself.

Hang in there...

Well, yes, and no... I mean, I don't say to myself that I never loved him. What I have said to myself is I fell in love with the false and wonderful facade he presented of himself... then when I learned who he really is, I wasn't happy with him whatsoever, and I most certainly wasn't in love with the real him.

But yeah, he still was able to break a part of me pretty good. It's been very hard to fully recover from.... I have healed quite a bit, but I am not fully there.

And thank you.

What do you think the monster would think if he learned of your recent professional successes?

@AspiringAuthor, that's a great question! He'd probably be very proud of me.

And that's also what gets me. This guy mooches off of his family and has for YEARS, he barely works when he is perfectly capable of working, he lives at home still and is online counseling people about drug use 24/7. He's a LOSER, in my mind.

He was a loser when he lived with me. He could have gotten a job in a heartbeat, yet chose to mooch off of me instead for four months. He didn't want to work. Or rather, he felt the jobs available were too far beneath him, so he refused to "stoop" to that level. Well, I started at the bottom as a receptionist, yet he cannot fathom being in a lowly food service job (that's HIS viewpoint, not mine).

And here he thinks he's all that? Where he can just lay on me that he loved his other ex more? When I was probably the best woman he will ever meet in his life? I treated him SO well. I gave him EVERYTHING. I was honest and faithful, even from a distance and even when other men hit on me and blatantly wanted me to sleep with them. He complained that every other girlfriend had cheated on him.

He thinks he's the cat's meow. Well, he's not. And I am far beyond him in many many ways. That is not ego talking... it's simply factual. I am far more motivated, ambitious and self-sufficient, he's not. I don't mooch off people and I am not irresponsible like he is. He has hundreds of thousands of dollars in medical debt... yet, he sits around online all day long, mooching off his poor grandparents while he does drugs in their house, most likely unbeknownst to them. They had kicked him out previously because of drug use and addiction.

He is going nowhere in life. I would at least have some amount of respect for the guy if he got his life together, moved out and got a full time job like he is perfectly capable of doing. And he probably thinks he's all that because he's now counseling people on responsible recreational drug use. Yeah, some life that is....

So why should I be upset over some LOSER that I happened to get engaged to? It was a total joke! It might as well have been on the 90-day fiance show. What a sh.it show that was. I shouldn't even take it seriously.

So why have I? I took it seriously then... but why should I now? What a vast MISTAKE. Yes, I have deep regrets. It's the only regret I have in my entire 48 years of life. What a total joke!

Oh my goodness, Golden Eve, that is a lot of perfectionism speaking - the only regret in your entire 48 years of life! By the way, I am also 48 and have been with men who mooched off of me, but at a larger scale and for a longer time. I currently pay ex husband who was able to qualify for social security and disability for, he claims, back pain, while he is an elite runner, and I pay more than 50% of my salary to him while having a life-threatening bipolar disorder. I liked your expression: mooching off. Look, Golden Eve, there are two unrelated issues. One is your feelings about him. These can be expressed in a letter that you would draft, addressing him, but not necessarily sending to him. "Unlike you, I never considered any job beneath me, and look, having started off as a receptionist, I am now [your current title]. And I support myself and was able to support you. And look at you - what would you be doing if not for your generous grandparents".

The other, far greater issue, concerns your perfectionism and exacting standards. That issue would require a change of perspective on your side, but that would allow for a far better experience of living. Please read up on "growth mindset" and on how taking risks and making mistakes are both a necessary part of lived experience and our growth as humans on Earth. You do not need to punish yourself with these perfectionist thoughts. They are not a necessary part of the internal dialogue.

I honestly don’t see perfectionism and high standards. In fact I see that golden used to have rather low standards in men and perhaps somewhat low expectations of herself.

Hopefully it all changed and Golden values herself much higher than she used to at the time of settling for this loser.

Someone with high standards wouldn’t date let alone get engaged with someone who isn’t even independent and doesn’t even have any income let alone a career. Someone with perfectionism syndrome wouldn’t get engaged tp a man who can’t even afford to propose with engagement ring!

I don’t see the issue as high standards, but rather low standards and lack of self respect (in the last, not now)

I am pleased to see that things are getting better and golden values herself higher now. Punishing oneself is unnecessary and detrimental but recognizing that one can and should do better is paramount if one wants improvement

Why does it matter what he thinks?

This is something I'll never understand about normal people...

Define normal lol

I don’t think anyone cares what irrelevant ex boyfriend thinks of their new job. It’s not unusual though to care what our loved ones (including family and good friends) think of our accomplishments. Not so nice ex boyfriends? Not so much

@AspiringAuthor, lol... I am very much a perfectionist. haha. But Divine is right on this one. I lowered my standards by far with this ex, and certainly didn't raise the bar enough. I am not beating myself up about it like I used to... I got past that stage. Now I'm just... well, still beside myself over the additional lies I learned.

@theoretical, I think the point that AspiringAuthor may have been making is how that relates to my self esteem. I am guessing, because he had squashed some of my self esteem.

@divine1966, yes, I see your point, though like I wrote above, I think there was merit to the question. It made me realize that yes, he would be proud of me, and yes, in fact, I know he thought very highly of me, which points even further to the likelihood that he just wanted to hurt me by saying he loved his ex more. I am connecting the dots, perhaps incorrectly, but I am trying to see the connection.

Thank you all... it really helps to gain support around this issue... I really need it!

I wonder if you’d have easier time to get over the pain he caused by focusing on his actions. Not as much on what he said (no way to know what’s true and what’s manipulation), or thought or felt or what he might think of feel now (you aren’t inside his head). Focus on his actions. His actions were not of a good life partner. He has no power to effect your life or your self esteem because he is not that important.

And maybe time to stop asking psychics about this guy. Them telling you how he is thinking about you and is about to contact you prolongs the agony. It works for them as longer you agonize about him more they can charge you so they’ll tell you whatever. But how is it working for you to keep him in your thoughts? Not so great.

Hopefully you are ready to close that chapter of your life

@divine1966 Golden Eve voiced that this particular loser was her only mistake in 48 years. To believe that one should - or could - live for 48 years without making mistakes is perfectionism. I do not know anything about the pre-existing history of relationships and was startled by the thought that I, or Golden Eve, or anyone our age should be expected to go through life without making mistakes. I was of such belief in long past and have since learned to embrace the growth mindset and "take risks, make mistakes, learn from them" mentality, which has improved my life a lot, and was suggesting that embracing the growth mindset would be transformational. When I first learned of the concept of growth mindset, I thought it was yet another overhyped term, but now I subscribe to the notion that having a growth mindset is better than not allowing yourself to make mistakes. When you write about Golden Eve's learning to value herself more, having examined past relationships, it is also, essentially, suggesting having a growth - a learning - mindset, except without using the term.

@theoretical @golden_eve I asked what he would think because there is a belief that to live one's life well is the best approach to avenging one's hurts. I did not expect Golden Eve's ex to be proud of her - I thought he would feel slighted and envious of her successes, and I thought that I would then make the point - which has been made to me by well-meaning friends, that vengeance is living one's life well. I do not understand forgiveness myself, but I have come to understand the point about living one's life well as an act of peaceful vengeance (and for many other reasons, too).

@golden_eve if you are proud of who you are, then this YOU is also a product of learnings and lived experience that included "mistakes" and "bad choices". In that vein you can even thank the loser mentally for teaching you to value yourself more highly.

I absolutely love the quote you used: "We're people first, anything else is secondary." Also I think what you said was not rubbish, but genuine and true. I too am struggling with forgiveness and thought it was very helpful to read what you believe forgiveness isn't. Thanks!

Yeah, Marcus Aurelius said as much, but it's a point old Marco and I disagree on. Living well to spite someone else is still living on their terms. And what if he doesn't care? What if he doesn't even notice? If he is a narcissist, sociopath, or something along those lines, then he likely won't be impressed by any honest living anyway, and he certainly wouldn't be jealous of it. Would that bother you?

I stand by my assertion that his opinion doesn't matter. If you want to move on, then live on your own terms.

Non-psychopaths.

I knew what you meant. Just trying to be funny. Term “normal” is often thrown around on this site in the strangest context or even as a derogatory term. I was even told once that I shouldn’t post here as I am “normal” and this site for people with mental health issues. So term normal is always funny to me like who decided what’s normal

We're getting off topic. I wanted to know how to forgive him... I still don't know. I feel this is the one way I will be able to fully let go and heal. I don't know what thoughts I should have in order to forgive and let go of my anger? I know that forgiving doesn't mean allowing or accepting his bad behaviors.

I think many people made many different suggestions what you could feel or do to let it go. Nothing seem to be working.

Maybe have thoughts that you aren’t a victim here. Being angry and blaming him puts you in a victim mood. If you stop telling yourself that you are helpless victim of his bad behavior, then maybe you’d stop being angry and unforgiving. Not necessarily blaming yourself here but take responsibility. It gets you out of a passenger seat and puts you in to drivers seat. You are in charge here. Not other people, not this guy

Have thoughts of “I made a mistake dating a wrong person. I am wiser now. I know what I won’t put up with in the future. This is in the past. That was then and this is now. I live my life and he can live his”. Then stop checking what he does online. Don’t talk to people about him. Find distractions when can’t stop thinking about him