[yagr]

I have long believed that I am only responsible for my own behavior. Recently however, I've realized something that has given me pause and I haven't been able to reconcile it. Professionals cross, or attempt to cross boundaries with me regularly. In fact, this has been so pervasive in my life that at fifty-four years old, it's only been brought to light because my therapist of four years has never crossed a boundary and it's such a unique relationship that it brought attention to the others.

I've had inappropriate relationships with teachers as early as elementary schools. I moved in with a school nurse in high school with whom I was involved in a relationship. I have had a lifelong tendency to become my therapist's therapist, money lender to my landlords, peer with my doctors, confidante of my social workers – pretty much any professional I've had an ongoing relationship with. And it doesn't take long, usually it's a matter of weeks in many cases – months in others.

So, it's not my job to police them, or try to control their behavior – it's theirs. I suppose I could shut them down, or behave in an inauthentic way which would make crossing the boundary less appealing for them, but that feels like I'm playing puppet master and being manipulative. I don't want the job, but they aren't doing theirs. So, if I don't want to end up in these situations any longer, what's the solution?

Fact is, I can refrain from lending my landlord money, for instance – but if he or she asks, the boundary has already been crossed. On the other hand, I can be less friendly, less helpful, less kind...whatever, and it might never get to that point. Becoming more standoffish might prevent these situations but as I said, it feels horribly inauthentic. Thoughts? Suggestions?

[MickeyCheeky]

I understand what you mean, @yagr! I don't have a lot of advice to give to you except that standing up for yourself does not necessarily mean being rude! If someone asks you something that you deem inappropriate, such as asking for money or any other thing that you deem to be a violation of your privacy, the best thing to do is to just say "No" and explain that you're not in the position to do what they've asked. Yeah, it sucks when they ask you things like that, and it should NEVER happen to begin with, but like you've already wisely said, this behavior is up to THEM. ALL you can do is remember them what their position is. That's my opinion anyway! I hope other wiser posters will be able to help you out with more concrete advice! Perhaps what I wrote will be a start for you at least! Feel free to PM me ANYTIME you need to talk or you need Advice and Support! I'll try to get back to you as soon as I possibly can! My Inbox is ALWAYS opne for You and for EVERYONE! THAT'S A PROMISE! Sending many safe, warm hugs to you, @yagr, and ALL of your Loved Ones!

[Bill3]

It is great to see you again yagr!

Fact is, I can refrain from lending my landlord money, for instance – but if he or she asks, the boundary has already been crossed.

This is where I think perhaps you might want to consider changing your approach.

If someone invades, in my view the appropriate response is not to concede that the boundary is violated, but rather to resist the violation and try to reestablish the boundary.

Look at it this way:

Landlord asks tenant to lend money: Landlord violates a boundary
Tenant actually lends the money: Tenant violate a boundary

In other words: you cannot control that others violate a boundary. However, you can control whether you yourself violate that boundary.

it's only been brought to light because my therapist of four years has never crossed a boundary and it's such a unique relationship that it brought attention to the others

This is a great, wonderful gift that your therapist has given you.

Awareness.

Awareness, awareness, awareness!

Now that you are aware of boundary issues, my suggestion is to notice--just notice, without judging yourself or anyone else--when a boundary issue comes up or a boundary is crossed.

"There it is again."

I myself find this approach to be helpful, in time, in bringing my mind--more or less on its own if you will--to start to change what I think needs to be changed.

[divine1966]

People try to violate boundaries all the time. You can’t control that. You can’t control others. All you control is your own boundaries.

“Can i borrow money from you?” “Sorry I really don’t have any extra money to lend good bye”. “Can i tell you story of my life?” “Sorry I have to figure my own life first good bye”. “Can we have sex?” “No I am not interested good bye”

Practice to say no

As about school nurse, molesting a high school student falls into a different category here.

[sarahsweets]

Aside from your professional boundaries you mentioned inappropriate relationships including with a school nurse. Are you aware that the school nurse relationship was abuse and manipulation?

[yagr]

Originally Posted by Bill3

It is great to see you again yagr!

And you Bill, truly. You've given me a good deal to think about, my questions are merely my way of clarifying sticking points - not to argue. More like my way of asking for clarification in a way that allows it to be more clear to me.

Originally Posted by Bill3

In other words: you cannot control that others violate a boundary. However, you can control whether you yourself violate that boundary.

But I can. I'm not saying that it is a healthy choice, but that's what I'm trying to figure out. Going back to the first time a landlord said, "That's why I like talking to you - you get it." I'm connecting with these people in ways they are not used to connecting with clients - or really, and in most cases, their friends.

I was a professional poker player for a quarter of a century. I had a poker school, wrote a successful book on the game - even had my own infomercial because 'you too deserve to be a winning poker player'. The acclaim that I received as well as my success was, in most cases, a result of my ability to read people - and teach others how to do so as well. My success at the tables was frequently a result or mirroring people until it became automatic. It is nearly impossible to effectively read people and not pick up on the things they aren't saying - then to mirror them they end up in an echo chamber, feel a connection to you...whether they should or not.

Never really feeling a social connection with others myself, I used this technique (and continue to do so) to navigate any type of social situation - including interactions with professionals.

Soooo, I assume - since my observations are that this person is not having these types of flexible boundaries with everyone, that I'm inadvertently inviting them to cross a boundary. Not implicitly and not that I'm actually responsible - but that it I changed my behavior - my way of interacting with people, it wouldn't happen. So, not responsible but still can make choices that would prevent it.

Originally Posted by Bill3

This is a great, wonderful gift that your therapist has given you.

Awareness.

Awareness, awareness, awareness!

Absolutely. In fact, after an intermittent life of therapy, this is so different that I feel like I've never actually been in therapy before.

Originally Posted by Bill3

Now that you are aware of boundary issues, my suggestion is to notice--just notice, without judging yourself or anyone else--when a boundary issue comes up or a boundary is crossed.

"There it is again."

I myself find this approach to be helpful, in time, in bringing my mind--more or less on its own if you will--to start to change what I think needs to be changed.

I cannot even play devil's advocate with a suggestion to be mindful.

[Bill3]

I think you are saying that at the moment there is a sense in which your ability to attract others to possibly inappropriate interactions is beyond your control, it is so ingrained.

Aristotle (I think) said that the right hand is stronger by nature, but nature can be changed.

So I still think that mindfulness is the key. I think that if you nonjudgmentally just notice that you are heading in a direction you don’t want to go, there will come a time in which you will actually catch yourself and not go in that direction. You will still be friendly but you will stop yourself before crossing the boundary.

I memorized a certain prayer incorrectly. I noticed each time I said it incorrectly—“(sigh) I did it again”—and it took a long time but I did eventually correct my memory.

My suggestion then is to notice, and to be patient!

[yagr]

~nods~ inadvertently influencing but not responsible for their reactions...

Originally Posted by Bill3

My suggestion then is to notice, and to be patient!

And in addition, it will give me ample opportunities to practice being gentle with myself - one of my biggest challenges.

I checked in to my neurologists office on Wednesday. I had never been there before - it was my first visit. I didn't pay close enough attention to my interactions with the woman checking me in to identify the initial moment boundaries began to be blurred but at one point she reached across the counter to take both my hands into hers, tears in her eyes and announced that God sent me to her today. That sort of reaction is not uncommon, but it's becoming increasingly uncomfortable. However, I DID catch the beginning of the next one....although not in time to make a mindful choice - it was knee-jerk.

Another woman at the counter was explaining that they wouldn't be able to perform the requested test (nerve conduction test) on her daughter today because her appointment didn't allow sufficient time. The mother became increasingly distraught and desperate as she tried everything she could think of to negotiate a different outcome to no avail, eventually breaking down sobbing as her husband tried to console her. The poor women behind the counter stayed professional but it was obvious that she was beat up by the exchange. She clearly cared but her hands were tied. After the couple left the room, I went up to offer some words of encouragement and thank her for caring professionalism and posited that she might just have the toughest job in the building if that exchange was any indication.

I have an appointment in three months. I'll bet you dollars to donuts that both will remember my name when I go back. That was not my intention...but it is a normal beginning.

[Bill3]

I'll bet you dollars to donuts that both will remember my name when I go back. That was not my intention...but it is a normal beginning.

You have time to reflect on how the next interactions could go badly or well.