[ShockedAndAwed]

I am going through a divorce that was requested by my wife. Our kids are all 18 or older, so no child support issues. I was the bread winner in the house and she was the home maker for 20+ years. We have discussed temporary support until the divorce is completed and agree on that for the most part. However, for spousal support after the divorce is final, I am struggling a bit. I did not want the divorce and still do not. She will not be in a position to be a big earner and will thus need some support from me. How do I make sure I do the "right thing" without feeling taken advantage of? This applies to the amount per month and the duration of the support. Thank you, S&A

[Open Eyes]

It depends on the state laws. Some states she can ask for alimony and the main provider doesn't have much choice but to negotiate and settle on the amount he will have to pay to her.

Do you have a lawyer?

[ShockedAndAwed]

Yes, I have a lawyer. I am thinking more along the lines of what morally I should do. Or, do I simply take the legal route and go as low as the law will allow. Like I said before, I did not want this, and there was no mental or physical abuse or infidelity. I don't want to get taken advantage of, but I also don't want to leave her hung out to dry either.

[DoroMona]

This is just my personal opinion, but I would go as low as the law will allow. If she needs additional help, you can still choose to give her more on the side. Don't lock yourself into a payment that you're going to resent later. How are you going to feel if you give her more and she starts dating someone else, long term, for example? I saw that happen once and it was SO hard for the ex-husband. What happens if you yourself fall into some financial difficulties? You also have grown kids to help her. You don't have to give more than the law demands. Again, just my personal opinion, especially given that she's the one asking for the divorce.

[divine1966]

Judge and court will determine duration and amount of spousal support if she asks for it. From a moral stand point I believe that grown adults should support themselves and not rely on others. It’s ok to help others to stand on their own two feet. It’s not ok for one adult be fully dependent on the other, ex spouse or not. It’s so unnecessary

Having said that, it’s perfectly fine to help her to get on her feet BUT be mindful of danger of enabling her. Sadly it happens too often. She keeps relying on a man while married and then continues this life style divorced.

But what happens in the future? Will she rely on you for the rest of her life? Or is she planning on becoming self sufficient? If a woman chooses to stay home when kids are all grown, then she also needs to understand that she’ll have nothing to rely on if her spouse dies or divorce happens. It’s not particularly wise choice. Too many women find themselves destitute because they chose to stay home (beyond young child care years when kids aren’t attending school yet) for many years and choose to rely on alimony after divorce. Eventually they find themselves relying on welfare and charity of others because they never learn independence . Sad way to live

I’d encourage your wife to become self sufficient and try to help her perhaps learn ways of how to become independent. I’d not encourage her to be dependent on you for longer than judge decides. It will do her no good. It might look like a kind gesture on surface but in a long run making others dependent on you is a questionable thing.

[Open Eyes]

It's nice that you care and want to do the right thing. However, your wife is the one that is choosing divorce and it's not like you abused her or cheated on her. Her choice will have consequences and she will need to fend for herself. Think of it this way, she is walking away from the lifestyle you provided for her, HER CHOICE.

If you are ordered to pay alimoney, as others have mentioned go for none or the lowest amount. She probably will be entitled to half of the home you both have, whatever equity is there in that home. Given there are no dependent children she can't claim she needs the home for the children.

You still embrace the habit of taking care of her, well, she has chosen to end that relationship. This means you are free from having to take care of her, always remember HER CHOICE.

[sarahsweets]

I feel two ways about this...on one hand she wants the divorce- did she say why? To me that would matter because if shes decided she's just sick of you then she should also be sick of your money. You said there was no abuse or cheating so what are her reasons? On the other hand if you and she mututally agreed way way long ago that you wanted a housewife, and she agreed to be one, ending or forgoing her career than I'd say she deserves SOMETHING other than nothing but not necessarily a "life she is accustomed to" because that life is the one she is leaving

[Open Eyes]

I agree with you @sarahsweets as I too felt two ways about this scenario. Sometimes that gets blowback in that some don't look at a woman being a homemaker as a career. Instead many respond with criticism and how SHE should have made it a point to have a career for herself and be more independent. What needs to be considered is the culture the two of them grew up with. There are places even here in the US where the tradition is STILL that of where the woman's career is to be the "home maker". Rural can be very different than Metropolitan. Also, rural tends to be more religious and traditional than Metropolitan. Yes, there can be a mix in both, however it's not unusual to find more traditional in the more rural. There are some families where it's a tradition the woman seek out independence while there are still traditions that a woman can choose to be a homemaker and function on a one income lifestyle or the male being the main breadwinner.

Given that the children are grown and leaving the so called nest, his wife is probably going through empty nest syndrome and now that it's going to be just the two of them she isn't content with just that and wants to seek out something different.

He has been taken back by this change and had just assumed his wife would continue even though the children are exiting and are more on their own now. Well, while he filled his role, and was honest and responsible his wife wants to try other things in her life now and decided she wants freedom to do just that.

[Open Eyes]

I think what you shared here should be included in your thread. It reflects your personal struggle with this challenge and that's important.

I am 53 and going through divorce after 23 years of marriage. It is quite painful and was a surprise to me. My days feel lonely and empty most of the time and y mind goes over and over the past years trying to put sense to why we are here. I am in therapy each week and look forward to those sessions to help provide clues on how to move on. All my happy memories are now filled with sadness. I have joined a different church and that has helped. I have also started to volunteer to see about putting my energy toward others instead of inward. But, what we are all going through is the grieving process and the only answer I can truly find now is time and allowing myself to experience the denial, anger, bargaining and acceptance steps. It is quite lonely often, but I have started to have daily talks with God although they seem one sided a lot. I wish the best for you and just know that you are not alone and there is hope on the other side.

You don't have to go as far as seeing memories in a sad way as you are stating here. You were a good provider for you family and from what you have shared you were not abusive and you did not cheat. That contributed to the positive memories, and your role as a good provider and father made those memories possible.

What you are grieving more is what you expected next and how you saw the future and that you are finding out your wife doesn't see HER future the same way. That being said that while you were working and providing, your wife was growing as a person too, and she learned things while she raised your children and saw the world changing around her through these past 23 years. Her nest is empty and she wants to fly away for a while and explore. All this time she was helping her children to be independent so they could fly from the nest, well, she developed that urge herself. It's very possible and even probable there was a part of her that felt unfulfilled that has nothing to do with you.

[Open Eyes]

I see you as a very loyal, responsible, principaled man who has always been a good provider. You have not failed, you did not do anything wrong ShockedAndAwed. What I am hearing from you is you are shocked and broken hearted and yet you still care and want to be that loyal good man and provide. There is something missing for your wife that you cannot fix, only she can fix and part of that is her desire for independence. There is a world of women she has been affected by throughout her years that are very independent women. This is something she never did for herself or got to feel. She doesn't want to be a caretaker anymore, while you are still working and independent, what does she have now? Something is missing for her and she doesn't know how to explain it or quite put it into words.

[ShockedAndAwed]

Originally Posted by sarahsweets

I feel two ways about this...on one hand she wants the divorce- did she say why? To me that would matter because if shes decided she's just sick of you then she should also be sick of your money. You said there was no abuse or cheating so what are her reasons? On the other hand if you and she mututally agreed way way long ago that you wanted a housewife, and she agreed to be one, ending or forgoing her career than I'd say she deserves SOMETHING other than nothing but not necessarily a "life she is accustomed to" because that life is the one she is leaving

Sarah, the reasons for her wanting the divorce are mainly revolving around her feeling that we had lost connection and were living separate lives in many ways. There is some truth in her feelings and we were working on trying to figure out how to reconnect. I did not see it as catastrophically as she did and maybe did not clearly understand how to bridge our gaps. She felt that I was not able to change enough to ever really be connected in the manner she needed and thus gave up.

We did agree that she would be a stay at home mom and I would be the bread winner. We both took our roles very seriously and I think we got lost in those worlds over time. Our twins are now 18 and finishing high-school this year. I have agreed to keep paying for everything (house, bills, etc...) until they graduate next summer, then sell the house and transition to a spousal support mode only.

I will be talking with lawyer this week to see how she thinks we should proceed regarding the amount and duration of the support.

[ShockedAndAwed]

Thanks Open Eyes for your kind words. There is a lot of truth in what you say. It does not make it any less painful, but it does help my mind put logic to everything.

[Open Eyes]

I am concerned that you are running over your history so much and consummed with grief that you are losing sight of the good you provided. That's taking too much responsiblity and your wife has her part in this as well. If you sink into too many negative emotions and run things over constantly, you will end up struggling with depression. You have VALUE as a person regardless of the choices your wife makes.

[Rive.]

I commend you on wanting to do the 'right' thing even though you are hurting from the end of your marriage. I would discuss with your lawyer what would be fair: not too low that she won't be able to live nor too high (deterrent to her being independent but also taking away from your financial security).

I disagree that because she was the one who gave up on trying, she ought to be 'punished' and not get anything at all. This is really harsh. She has tried and clearly, for her, it is too painful to go on. That is no reason to leave her destitute/struggling.

And seeing you both agreed on your roles i.e. you as the breadwinner and her taking care of the things, I think it is doing the right thing to help her out. It won't be easy for her to earn a living, seeing she was out of the job market for so long, not to mention obsolete and/or lack of qualifications.

Because the partnership dissolved doesn't abdicate you from doing the 'moral' (if not necessarily legal) thing. Again, I commend you for trying to be fair. This is rare nowadays.

[Open Eyes]

I also wanted to add that this actually happens a lot when children are around the age your children are. I have noticed this here at PC but also noticed it happening with many couples that were parents of my daughter's piers when they were this age too.

I have a feeling that some of this is a midlife crisis issue, but also due to the age when children are getting ready to leave the nest and how that can leave a parent feeling like they have lost their identity. Something is missing and often that can be the core of a partner's problem. This isn't something you caused or something you failed at either. Your wife genuinely feels something is missing in herself and often this feeling experienced isn't easy to explain. What filled your wifes life and changing and she is starting to experience the void that creates. Many parents experience this challenge and they even have a name for it called "empty nest syndrome".

Given that you have been the active bread winner part of your life is still there for you as you are years yet away from retirement. For her it's different because due to her being the one who's life really revolved around being a homemaker, that is changing and leaving a lot of void, a void you alone cannot fill in your wife.

However, that being said, due to Covid and how that has affected our economy and ability to actually go off to college, many your children's age will actually be staying and living at home longer. I recently met a woman that had her last child graduating and getting ready to leave and they sold their big house and downsized before Covid hit. Now with this Covid challenge her children are living at home again and she now lacks the room she had once had. So now their new smaller home is tight lacking space for the family to all be living there again.

[ArtleyWilkins]

If your wife is not disabled, definitely put a time and amount limit on the spousal support. This is her decision; she will need to find a way to manage. You are already planning to take care of house and bills. Honestly, that is more than enough. I would say your obligation is more toward the kids and their education perhaps; otherwise, she will need to find a way to be on her own eventually - otherwise, you will end up financially tied to her with no end in sight. Should be contingent on her getting some retraining, education, etc. so she can become independent as soon as feasible.

My sister found herself in this situation (also Texas). 17 years of marriage - 2 teenagers. She didn't ask for the divorce in her case, but she had given up her education/career to basically support her husband through their marriage. It wasn't easy, but she went back to school, finished her degree that she had given up to get married, and is much better off in her independence. Her ex provided support for the kids - helped them through college, but she never got a dime in spousal support except for the kids when they lived at home.

[Molinit]

Doesn't matter who requests the divorce. Rightfully, she should have an attorney looking out for her best interest and you should have your own. The negotiations should go through an attorney and the court ONLY. It is not your place to bestow or withhold the support for her because BOTH of you decided she would not have a career to carry her into the latter part of life.

[Prycejosh1987]

I suppose you can still work on things, but i think you should suggest marriage counselling. Confess your feelings and ask what you can do to make her happy.

[sarahsweets]

Originally Posted by Open Eyes

I agree with you @sarahsweets as I too felt two ways about this scenario. Sometimes that gets blowback in that some don't look at a woman being a homemaker as a career. Instead many respond with criticism and how SHE should have made it a point to have a career for herself and be more independent. What needs to be considered is the culture the two of them grew up with. There are places even here in the US where the tradition is STILL that of where the woman's career is to be the "home maker". Rural can be very different than Metropolitan. Also, rural tends to be more religious and traditional than Metropolitan. Yes, there can be a mix in both, however it's not unusual to find more traditional in the more rural. There are some families where it's a tradition the woman seek out independence while there are still traditions that a woman can choose to be a homemaker and function on a one income lifestyle or the male being the main breadwinner.

I agree completely with this @Open Eyes. I am a stay at home mom and have stayed home for 18 years. I have three kinds all three years apart. When the second child was always getting sick at the babysitters we decided it was best for me to stay home. Of course the cost of daycare after the third would be more than I could ever make. The responsiblities of taking care of kids and the home are very often minimized or downplayed. I have had moms at school functions say things like " I wish I could afford to stay home with my kids" " Wow you must have so much time without a work schedule or boss to answer to". The worst was when someone asked first where I went to college, what my degree was (eng lit) and what I did for a living. When I said homemaker she said she would never waste her degree and advised me to get a higher degree when the kids were older.
I am glad i was the one home with them sick, the one to drop off forgotten lunches and pick them up early. I am glad I got to go to school day functions that my husband had to miss. The way we "afforded" for me to stay home was to be frugal and forgo vacations, frequent shopping trips and driving 20 year old beater cars. It was never because my husband made so much that we could afford it. One look at my house which is 246 years old and old high milage cars and you'd see that staying home never afforded us a life of luxury.
My mental illness also hindered me and I never would have had time for treatment if I had a job and it definitely interfered with me working or keeping a job. My last child is 17 and now I am soul searching for what to do. Get out into the workforce and hope an employer values my 18 year work gap because I was raising kids, or pursue a higher education.
Farmers raise livestock and are praised for their work ethics and care. I am raising humans thank you and feel my investment is a worthy cause.
This is not to slam working women or two career households. They love their children just as much and working women are also stigmatized at work and expected to work sick to save their days for their kids when they are sick. The unfairness for working women is another list a mile long. This is just my experience.

Given that the children are grown and leaving the so called nest, his wife is probably going through empty nest syndrome and now that it's going to be just the two of them she isn't content with just that and wants to seek out something different.

He has been taken back by this change and had just assumed his wife would continue even though the children are exiting and are more on their own now. Well, while he filled his role, and was honest and responsible his wife wants to try other things in her life now and decided she wants freedom to do just that.[/QUOTE]

[Open Eyes]

@sarahsweets, thank you for seeing and contributing some important things too. ShockedAndAwed deserves to have help to step back and consider what is going on psychologically with his wife so he doesn't feel so many pains of rejection. Also, he was a good provider, clearly loved his family and still wants to do the right thing and be the responsible man he's always been. Also, it's so wrong for him to go over and over the past and think of any of that as he failed and that never really had value or wasn't real or a true accomplishment.

Actually, when the nest is empty a mother who's career was all about her children and family goes through a loss and a mourning. There is a sudden lonliness and a genuine loss of self because a good part of her life that she navigated is disappearing. If she is around fifty, she is still several years away from retirement and with that nest empty it's not all that unusual for her to want to fill her life with something else, something to allow her to have a sense of personal value. Wanting something different than being the mom and the wife, something more for herself instead of being "there" for everyone else. It's not so much rejecting or that anything he did was not enough or that he should be going over and over to see where he went wrong. However, his sense of loss is genuine too. The nest is emptying for him too and he wasn't expecting his wife to want to vacate the nest as well.

Maybe the void means he too needs to find something else too. A hobby or something to fill the void that is happening to him as well. Often the rejection has more to do with the emptyness of the nest and all that is no longer there.

[divine1966]

There is no right or wrong way to do things. We all make a choice. But every choice has a consequence. We have to be realistic about it. Going through life without plan B and expecting things to stay the same is naive.

Too many women find themselves in advanced age having nothing to live on because they have no savings, no pension, no retirement plans, no options to support themselves because alimony or life insurance ran out and they didn’t plan for it. Or even if they stay married, they find themselves in a bad financial situation because they didn’t have plan B and weren’t prepared to face consequence of their choice and living on one income might stop being realistic.

And they might not realize that living on social security alone in old age is not doable. Until it’s too late.

I don’t encourage people to live in a la la land and then find themselves in a pickle. I encourage women to have plan B and be prepared to deal with things and life changes.

Judge will award her alimony so she could get on her feet. I’d encourage her to use alimony for getting herself into a better place. Perhaps go to school or what not. Alimony will not go on forever. So offering her infinite support you will encourage her to be dependent. If she gets divorced, she simply can not afford to be dependent. Otherwise she’ll eat cat food in old age. She deserves support and I commend you for thinking about it. And she likely will get awarded support and then she’ll have to start planning for life changes. Life can’t stay the same