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Old Dec 17, 2020, 08:46 AM
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Have Hope Have Hope is offline
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My husband (soon to be ex) is a narcissist. I suffered narcissistic abuse from him.

This I have identified through my therapy and education on abusers, the various types of abusers, and on what I personally experienced.

He matches NPD to a T. He may even be a psychopath - he not only lacks empathy, but he seems to lack a conscience.

He stole from me once (claiming later that he KNEW what he was doing was WRONG), he stole once from a store, and then he cheated on me in the end, in knowing that cheating is the ONE thing that would harm me the very MOST.

We had at least 100 discussions about cheating throughout our ENTIRE MARRIAGE. He repeatedly PROMISED me that he is "not wired to cheat", that it is "not in his DNA", that he "never thinks of other women", that I never "have to worry about that with him", and that he would "never ever cheat" on me.

He also knew FULL WELL of my past history with cheaters and he KNEW 100% how hurt I had been and would be, if he ever did this to me. HE KNEW.

SO what he do? He goes and cheats on me!

He claims it was out of anger towards me because I had called the police on him one night. I called the police because I was SCARED of him. He was raging at me YET AGAIN. Yet, he plays the victim - and then retaliated.

Once he had told me that he was gaining pleasure out of pissing me off - my mother told me that that is in fact, SADISTIC behavior.

So, was it also sadistic that he cheated on me, given it was the ONE thing he KNEW would destroy me? Was that sadistic? What IS that?


Whom did I marry? Did I marry a psychopath? I know he's a narcissist.... how do you know if someone is also a psychopath?
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Last edited by Have Hope; Dec 17, 2020 at 09:10 AM.

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  #2  
Old Dec 17, 2020, 09:37 AM
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MickeyCheeky MickeyCheeky is offline
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i can't tell you for sure what his diagnosis may be as i am not an expert. However, i think it matters only relatively: what's important is that you have found out his dangerous behavior and are now getting away from him for good. Please definitely keep moving forward and i Hope and Pray that things will improve for you REALLY SOON! SEnding many safe, warm hugs to BOTH you, @Have Hope, your Family, your FriEnds and ALL of your Loved Ones! Keep fighting and keep rocking NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS, OK?!
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Thanks for this!
Have Hope
  #3  
Old Dec 17, 2020, 10:02 AM
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sarahsweets sarahsweets is offline
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Definition of: 'psychopath' is: 'a person with a psychopathic personality, which manifests as amoral and antisocial behavior, lack of ability to love or establish meaningful personal relationships, extreme egocentricity, failure to learn from experience, etc.'. Learn more at: Psychopath | Definition of Psychopath at Dictionary.com

I don’t know hope it seems like he would need to be more violent and. criminal.
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  #4  
Old Dec 17, 2020, 10:04 AM
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Definition of: 'narcissist' is: 'a person who is overly self-involved, and often vain and selfish.'. Learn more at: Narcissist | Definition of Narcissist at Dictionary.com

Definition of: 'narcissism' is: 'inordinate fascination with oneself; excessive self-love; vanity. '. Learn more at: Narcissism | Definition of Narcissism at Dictionary.com

This seems more likely
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Have Hope
  #5  
Old Dec 17, 2020, 10:48 AM
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Thank you @MickeyCheeky!

@sarahsweets - thank you!

I found this online about psychopaths:

socially irresponsible behavior
disregarding or violating the rights of others
inability to distinguish between right and wrong
difficulty with showing remorse or empathy
tendency to lie often
manipulating and hurting others
recurring problems with the law
general disregard towards safety and responsibility

The only aspect that does not necessarily apply to him is recurring problems with the law - though he has had several run-ins. He had a run-in with his ex wife along those lines and with me calling the police on him. He has stolen an item while with me at Home Depot.

He may fit this persona in addition to narcissist.

I also wanted to know if his cheating on me was sadistic behavior on his part - it FEELS sadistic.
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  #6  
Old Dec 17, 2020, 11:21 AM
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divine1966 divine1966 is offline
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I don’t know if he is a psychopath necessarily. Just not a good partner and not an honorable person.

You were vulnerable when you’ve met him. That’s a sure way to meet a user. I had a bad feeling about this man after you had just one date with him, it wasn’t going to end well and it didn’t.

Well I had a strange feeling on the first date with someone myself and yet I stayed for years. And left for exact same thing I had an uneasy feeling on the first date about! Amazing. Whatever seems off in the beginning will be off 10 years from then and will likely be the reason for it to end. But hindsight is always 20/20.

It doesn’t matter if he is psychopath or narcissist. Be done with him. Just make sure you do not go even on one date with anyone for significant amount of time. We all make this mistake being lonely hurt and vulnerable after a break up and immediately going for someone else and that’s when trouble comes, always.

Don’t worry about why he is how he is. Just think about what’s next.

To answer how you spot a psychopath, I think psychopath is pretty extreme case and you would see that.

But other than that I think it’s important to pay attention to what they do, not what they say. And it’s important to get to know them on a deep level before committing in any shape or form, not focusing on things they say or how they express their undying love (fake).

Pay attention to their character and where they are in life and things they do and how they proceed in a relationship. He was very shady and not very trustworthy from the day one. It is what it is. I’d say you got out of this mess fast. Good for you. Others stick around for life in this mess. Be proud of figuring it out fast
Thanks for this!
*Beth*, Have Hope
  #7  
Old Dec 17, 2020, 11:32 AM
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I have to add that he was extremely preoccupied with vanity like looks his own and others, including in women. What kind of hair they have or describing how women look etc Not saying looks aren’t important but this preoccupation isn’t a good sign.

For a man in middle age admiring his own looks to the point of claiming to look like Greek God is extreme case of self absorbance. Also sign of immaturity.
Thanks for this!
Have Hope, lizardlady
  #8  
Old Dec 17, 2020, 12:46 PM
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Have Hope Have Hope is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by divine1966 View Post
I don’t know if he is a psychopath necessarily. Just not a good partner and not an honorable person.

You were vulnerable when you’ve met him. That’s a sure way to meet a user. I had a bad feeling about this man after you had just one date with him, it wasn’t going to end well and it didn’t.

Well I had a strange feeling on the first date with someone myself and yet I stayed for years. And left for exact same thing I had an uneasy feeling on the first date about! Amazing. Whatever seems off in the beginning will be off 10 years from then and will likely be the reason for it to end. But hindsight is always 20/20.

It doesn’t matter if he is psychopath or narcissist
. Be done with him. Just make sure you do not go even on one date with anyone for significant amount of time. We all make this mistake being lonely hurt and vulnerable after a break up and immediately going for someone else and that’s when trouble comes, always.

Don’t worry about why he is how he is. Just think about what’s next.

To answer how you spot a psychopath, I think psychopath is pretty extreme case and you would see that.

But other than that I think it’s important to pay attention to what they do, not what they say. And it’s important to get to know them on a deep level before committing in any shape or form, not focusing on things they say or how they express their undying love (fake).

Pay attention to their character and where they are in life and things they do and how they proceed in a relationship. He was very shady and not very trustworthy from the day one. It is what it is. I’d say you got out of this mess fast. Good for you. Others stick around for life in this mess. Be proud of figuring it out fast
Thanks, Divine.

I do want to understand narcissism and narcissistic abuse. It's very important to my recovery process. I have identified him as a narcissist - I need to learn what to look out for the next time. Identifying and LABELING the behavior and traits is critical to recovery - so this is a VERY important part of my journey. My father is narcissistic - I have now been with 6 abusive narcissists. Why would it therefore not be important to label and identify so that I can overcome my magnetic attraction to narcissists? What you say doesn't jive with me or make much sense to me in terms of my recovery and healing process. This is a necessary and critical part of my process - understanding narcissistic abuse and narcissists.

And yes, I agree that there were troublesome signs from him in the beginning. I don't remember our 1st date, but I remember he pushed his desires and needs on me very early on, without respecting MY needs and MY boundaries. I told him I needed to take things slowly - he completely ignored that boundary. On on of our 1st dates, he tried holding my hand, and I pulled away. I pulled away on a second or third date too - and he actually cried tears because I pulled away. He was pushing me. Yet, I still decided to date him, despite him crossing my boundaries.

And that's something I need to be acutely aware of. What my boundaries are, when someone is crossing them, and what that means if they do cross them. It means they don't respect me. And that's the time to walk away.

Now I know better to pay attention to actions vs. words. And now I know better to watch and observe someone's character in action. Now I know better NOT to rush in, and NOT to get swept up in a tide of good feelings and positive emotions simply because someone wants a lot of my attention and time and just because someone is giving me a lot of attention and time, in the beginning. That was another red flag I glossed over, yet noticed. I took note of all of these things, yet I still continued to date him - DESPITE the red flags.

Many lessons here for me - MANY. And yes, I will most certainly be waiting a long time before I date again. That's not even a consideration.
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  #9  
Old Dec 17, 2020, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by divine1966 View Post
I have to add that he was extremely preoccupied with vanity like looks his own and others, including in women. What kind of hair they have or describing how women look etc Not saying looks aren’t important but this preoccupation isn’t a good sign.

For a man in middle age admiring his own looks to the point of claiming to look like Greek God is extreme case of self absorbance. Also sign of immaturity.
AGREED. I SO wish I had called him out on his Adonis comments! I am angry at myself for not saying anything to him in reply.

And yes, he primped himself MORE than I do! Way more. Hair spray, hair gel, etc etc.
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  #10  
Old Dec 17, 2020, 01:20 PM
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My DSM is currently missing He sounds like someone to keep away from. Respect to you
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  #11  
Old Dec 17, 2020, 01:40 PM
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I am not saying it’s not important to identify or label. If you find it important for your recovery, it’s important. It’s just hard to tell exactly what’s his problem to be sure. That’s why I felt focusing on certain behaviors might be more important. Of course I could be wrong

Some of the things about your husband seem to be different than other narcissistic people I’ve met (I have my share of those including (as me and my brother suspect) our own father). Some things about your husband don’t point to that direction based on my experience with narcissists, men in particular. Some things do
Thanks for this!
Have Hope
  #12  
Old Dec 17, 2020, 01:53 PM
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Have Hope Have Hope is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by divine1966 View Post
I am not saying it’s not important to identify or label. If you find it important for your recovery, it’s important. It’s just hard to tell exactly what’s his problem to be sure. That’s why I felt focusing on certain behaviors might be more important. Of course I could be wrong

Some of the things about your husband seem to be different than other narcissistic people I’ve met (I have my share of those including (as me and my brother suspect) our own father). Some things about your husband don’t point to that direction based on my experience with narcissists, men in particular. Some things do
I may not have detailed everything about him that fits the NDP profile, but he does.

He lacks empathy, he is very self absorbed and self centered, egotistical, entitled, and superior, he thinks everyone is jealous of US, he is arrogant, he explodes in anger at any perception of insult or challenge, he is always right, I am always wrong, he can do no wrong, he needs constant praise, ego boosting, attention and admiration, and he thinks and compares himself to Adonis.

Yes, he is a narcissist. This is how he is. UGH. And I had to marry him!!!
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  #13  
Old Dec 17, 2020, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Fuzzybear View Post
My DSM is currently missing He sounds like someone to keep away from. Respect to you
Thanks @Fuzzybear.
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  #14  
Old Dec 17, 2020, 02:47 PM
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divine1966 divine1966 is offline
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Yeah it does fit. Just few things seemed different to me

Men I’ve met who were narcissistic wouldn’t ever allow a woman to pay for anything (up to the extreme) because that hurts their inflated ego and that means they don’t have all the power. If they always pay they have all the power and their ego is elevated over weak dependent women

In fact it was always one of the red flags for me if a man isn’t willing to let women pay for anything, not even fair share or occasional. Their ego is too inflated for that.

It always felt like your husband willing to use women financially is not a typical sign of a narcissist. But of course it could be, just a different variation
  #15  
Old Dec 17, 2020, 02:48 PM
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I could be wrong but plenty of people do cheat and cheat the system and aren’t psychopaths. But certainly they are being greedy, and greedy partners, and they are not trustworthy.

If I may be bold, perhaps your heart is open to being loving and loyal to men who don’t deserve it.
Thanks for this!
Have Hope
  #16  
Old Dec 17, 2020, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by divine1966 View Post
Yeah it does fit. Just few things seemed different to me

Men I’ve met who were narcissistic wouldn’t ever allow a woman to pay for anything (up to the extreme) because that hurts their inflated ego and that means they don’t have all the power. If they always pay they have all the power and their ego is elevated over weak dependent women

In fact it was always one of the red flags for me if a man isn’t willing to let women pay for anything, not even fair share or occasional. Their ego is too inflated for that.

It always felt like your husband willing to use women financially is not a typical sign of a narcissist. But of course it could be, just a different variation
He COULDN'T pay for anything unless he earned his bonus. He was unable to - therefore he was dependent on me and every other woman financially. Remember that he went BANKRUPT as well. And he works on COMMISSION ONLY. He does not earn a steady paycheck and he's completely irresponsible with money. He DID, however, pay as much as he could when he did have money around. He treated me fairly often.

And I'd rather not argue this point of whether he is or is not a narcissist. It's not relevant to my question. I know he is a narcissist and that I dealt with narcissistic abuse - perhaps it does match your model, but it matches everything I've read and my therapist even confirms it.
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  #17  
Old Dec 17, 2020, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Cardooney View Post
I could be wrong but plenty of people do cheat and cheat the system and aren’t psychopaths. But certainly they are being greedy, and greedy partners, and they are not trustworthy.

If I may be bold, perhaps your heart is open to being loving and loyal to men who don’t deserve it.
Yes, I've been FAR too open to love and I've invited in the most unsavory of characters into my life. NO MORE. I am not going to be that woman anymore. I am going to be savvy and discriminating from now on.
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  #18  
Old Dec 17, 2020, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Have Hope View Post
He COULDN'T pay for anything unless he earned his bonus. He was unable to - therefore he was dependent on me and every other woman financially. Remember that he went BANKRUPT as well. And he works on COMMISSION ONLY. He does not earn a steady paycheck and he's completely irresponsible with money. He DID, however, pay as much as he could when he did have money around. He treated me fairly often.

And I'd rather not argue this point of whether he is or is not a narcissist. It's not relevant to my question. I know he is a narcissist and that I dealt with narcissistic abuse - perhaps it does match your model, but it matches everything I've read and my therapist even confirms it.
I wasn’t arguing. I thought we were just having a discussion. Sometimes people have a combination of different traits or possibly personality disorders etc that’s what I thought I was saying. Didn’t mean to upset you. I am bowing out
  #19  
Old Dec 17, 2020, 03:03 PM
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I wasn’t arguing. I thought we were just having a discussion. Sometimes people have a combination of different traits or possibly personality disorders etc that’s what I thought I was saying. Didn’t mean to upset you. I am bowing out
I wasn't upset - I just felt it was getting off topic to discuss whether he's a narcissist or not, when I know he is and when I am stating he is one. That's all. No need to bow out, but it's up to you.
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  #20  
Old Dec 17, 2020, 03:45 PM
Anonymous41250
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Very clear answer. Look at their other hobbies (if they have any) and that will usually lead you along a path of figuring someone out.

Please keep in mind that there are exceptions to every rule so try to not to stereotype but yeah typecasting is a thing.
Thanks for this!
Have Hope
  #21  
Old Dec 17, 2020, 03:50 PM
Anonymous41250
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Also, keep in mind that maybe a person who is a narcissist could be having a bad day and now his bad day is your bad day because you were already having a bad day. But a psychopath will make everyday a bad day.
Thanks for this!
Have Hope
  #22  
Old Dec 17, 2020, 03:57 PM
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I’m not sure if this is what you are asking but I choose to see the best in people while others are more focused on seeing what people could best do for them. I guess that is what makes a good narcissist. When someone seeks to interfere in a persons life (for instance)for a “higher purpose”, what is that called?
Thanks for this!
Have Hope
  #23  
Old Dec 17, 2020, 03:59 PM
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I think I misread what you are asking. I thought you were asking if he is narcissistic and psychopathic. If you are asking if he is a psychopath, I don’t think so. They are typically way too dangerous, like criminally dangerous, I think?
Thanks for this!
Have Hope
  #24  
Old Dec 17, 2020, 04:00 PM
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For instance, giving someone help when they don’t ask for it. I’ve found that many people don’t have the strength to end a relationship or give it a break and unfortunately actually hurts both people in the relationship.
Thanks for this!
Have Hope
  #25  
Old Dec 17, 2020, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by ann bog View Post
I’m not sure if this is what you are asking but I choose to see the best in people while others are more focused on seeing what people could best do for them. I guess that is what makes a good narcissist. When someone seeks to interfere in a persons life (for instance)for a “higher purpose”, what is that called?
I used to see the best in people - that's what's gotten me into great trouble in relationships. I have not been savvy enough to those who are harmful and toxic. I've had to learn the very hard way - some very hard and very painful lessons - in being discerning. Not everyone deserves an open door, and not everyone deserves the benefit of the doubt.
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