Grieving my marriahe

Understand it can be hard to talk about. It’s concerning how hard you are on yourself. I think your children feel this way too.

Your thread is here when you need to talk things out.

Yeah...I genuinely believe that your marital/family problems are much too deep for a group of people who hardly know you, don't know your wife or family, don't have full knowledge of all the circumstances, and so on- can give you solid guidance on how to proceed. All I can firmly state is that there are major issues that need attention ASAP.

I truly wish you and your family the best. There IS hope.

Beth,

I agree.

I've felt so much turmoil for so long that this was a space to just talk. Anonymously.

I can't afford counselling very much. 10x a year for me.

I wouldn't talk to anyone who knows us because I wouldn't speak poorly of her to anyone.

That’s understandable! You sound like a private person and want to be very careful about others in your community knowing your personal challenges. I felt that way myself. However, you would be very surprised at how many other families experience similar challenges.

I can feel the pain you feel as I read your words. I was married for 11 years and it took 2 or 3 years to fully get over the hope that I had for so long, that I eventually lost. It is a very painful moment when you want to go back and fix something, only to realize that there is nothing left to fix…

Hang in there. Take comfort in the fact that there is a huge opportunity for growth here, though I am sure you in all likelihood don’t feel that right now. Whenever a door closes, there is virtually always a little window that opens, if only we look hard enough…

Well..... I don't know who to talk to about this. Like I said, I won't go to friends and family because I don't want any influence from them, and I don't want anyone to be polarized against me or her.

Two days ago my wife and I spoke and she told me she was shouldering too much of the blame for our relationship status and was made to look bad to the kids. I gave it an hour of thought, then approached the kids and spoke to them about my contribution to how things were at home and apologized, and assured them their mom loved them so much.

My wife and I talked again yesterday. She agreed to three months of intense couples therapy with a final decision to be made the end of February if things are worth saving or proceed with a divorce.

I talked to my oldest this morning. He got very hurt and angry.

Things he told me....

His work has counselling services. He's taken his siblings with him to counselling without our knowledge a couple of times because he felt they needed it and he wanted to compare notes with them. He said, I don't think I love mom, I think I love who you told me mom was. He can't be in our house anymore. He can't take any more of mom's anger at his dad. He can't take the effect mom's anger has on my mood, and me then being short and angry with the kids. He and his siblings hated my apology and explanation to them two days ago because it was just another example of me taking blame and mom not. Once he leaves the house will not be in contact with his mom again for a long time. He feels any change that we see will be temporary and things will fall apart again and we'll all be caught in it. He and his siblings have talked about the divorce, and standing up in court to say they don't want to live with their mom and they are ready to do it.

In the past two days his mom has told him he can leave as much of his belongings as he has to at home if he is transitioning to an apartment next year, and talked to him about getting another pet for the household.... While talking about divorcing and selling the house. He said he can't take that insanity any more.

How much of this is an accurate interpretation of what has gone on in our home? How much of this is just an angry frustrated young man who has never been in a big relationship? How much has he influenced the other kid on a course of action and on what they've seen?

Or, what if he is right about all of it? What if I'm THAT person, and this is one of the seven times I am going back to a bad situation?

I'm scared. I'm scared of finances. I'm scared of not having a home. I'm scared of losing other things that I look forward to everyday, like our house and neighbours and the space we have. I'm scared of losing someone that knows me better than anyone. I'm scared of losing my shared history and blended life with this person. I don't have any family or deep connections in this town. I'm scared of not having someone when I need them. I'm scared of losing hope.

RDM

It’s natural to be scared imo, I think I would be too.

It sounds like your adult son has taken positive action by getting to counselling and encouraging his siblings to come too. It’s not for me to say you should be proud of him, but i hope that you are.

I think it’s wise to believe your son’s perspective. To not believe him would be dishonoring him and invalidating the experience he has with his mother. Your son is clearly in a lot of pain over how your wife treats you. Believe his words. That’s my two cents.

Who are you (or her) to determine whether your children have presented an "accurate interpretation" of what's happening in your house? It's how they feel and how they are perceiving their home. It just IS.

If you want them to perceive something different, then something different needs to occur, not another counselor, another period of time where at the end the SAME thing is going on.

You said above that you can't really afford counseling for yourself - so why are you going to take her to counseling? It's a waste. If there's a counselor to be employed here, it should be one for you ONLY.

And stop discussing your adult problems with your children (adult or not). Just the fact that your oldest took siblings to counseling tells me you are unable to see how they're being affected by your marital discord. It's sad.

Save your children first, then save yourself. You are the adult here, fix this.

Yes, there are budgets for everything, including counselling.

If she and I are to enter counselling I'd have to borrow the money.

It was necessary to speak to my son about this. Not for his input and advice, but because he has asked me to leave with him. He has to be informed what his mother and I spoke about and what the plan is to move forward.

I understand what you are saying too about what a person's lived experience is. I also know that a person can be overwhelmed and fail to view something objectively. There are things I failed to see in the bigger picture at his age as well, and my emotions ran high at times and I failed to see things as objectively as when I looked back as an adult. I suffered depression at times. I can look at those times and realize my emotional responses didn't match the inputs, so to speak.

The younger kids go to individual counselling too. At $100 a pop this gets expensive fast. I appreciate big kid taking them and talking to a counselor together but I do have to be concerned that he isn't influencing them too much.

I'm caught. It's that simple. I've told my wife for over a year that things are escalating for him. I can't leave him unsupported as a young adult. He feels like he is going to break. I can't "be there" for both of them.

I really think something happened with my wife. I think there is mental illness there that isn't being seen or treated. Things were really hard for a long time, but they got a lot worse in the last two years and especially in the past year.

And through all this I feel like I am having my heart ripped out of my chest.

I've tried to look after HER through a lot, and the KIDS through a lot. Now I have to choose.

This sucks.

Thanks everyone. I'll update you about outcomes.

RDM

If she is in a mental health crisis, then being a defensive so-and-so isn't the right course of action. Acting and thinking from a place of love is important.

I'm going to speak to her about this tonight. I expect one of two possibilities: she will agree that he needs support and understand that, or not be receptive to seeing things from his perspective.

If it is the second one, regardless of if she is in a crisis, I think I am going to have to leave.

I am wrestling with this so much, in part because right now I feel more at peace after talking to my wife yesterday and getting a more reasonable response.

BUT I KNOW a person can reach a point of conditioning that they return and return to a bad situation just because it is familiar.

I admire your desire to take steps to make sure your wife is not suffering from a mental health condition that creates these moods where she lashes out. I believe I mentioned a physical and neurological evaluation should take place so you have some clarity on her condition.

It would also be a good idea for her to have a blood test to see her hormone levels. I know first hand a significant drop in estrogen can severely affect a woman’s mood and can even cause depression

I stand firmly by my original contribution to this thread: According to what you have posted here I believe that your children are being dragged, by you, into the middle of the relationship that belongs to you and your wife - your marriage. Children must come first. You are putting yourself and the strife of your marriage before your children, and the price for doing that will ultimately be a heavy one.

Hi Beth,

How do you convince someone they are having significant memory gaps? How do convince them they are confusing words sometimes? How do you convince them their reality and memories are wrong?

How do you convince them they have extremely angry outbursts that they claim they have no memory off?

What if this person has early onset alzheimers? Or a brain tumor? Or has had a stroke? Or a medication reaction?

This progressed for over two years. Initially I thought it was a mix of chronic pain, depression and sleep deprivation.

She had surgery a year ago and pain and illness have improved over the course of the last year.

The kids got dragged into the middle of this, first, when the oldest got caught in one of these memory glitch situations in February. Then some more after.

Youngest got caught in one around first week of September, in front of me. When I pointed it out to mom, her reply, in front of kid was, your father does this to make me think I'm crazy. When I said that's not true, mom asked for a divorce in front of kid, saying that I am lying and manipulating her, and far stronger things. Youngest went to big brother immediately.

Then it was all dumped out in the open from the kids to mom. She HAD to hear it from someone else because she'd built a narrative that I was sneaky and manipulative and lying. She had to hear it from the only other people who witnessed it.

Do you know what it's like to be terrified for the brain health of someone else?

What kind of person am I to leave at that time? What if this is really, really serious? Maybe this is a personality disorder,or maybe she has a brain injury. We don't know. How do you leave the kids in that situation? One parent can't abduct them.

I've taken a ton of crap for a long time from her. Now what if she's in a brain health crisis?

I've done this with two elderly family members before, one with dementia, one with a stroke. If you've experienced that, this is similar, except for how intermittent it is.

I've been past my limits for a long time, and questioned my OWN version of reality in therapy for months.

The kids had to voice their reality to her. She had to hear it for there to even have a possibility of a medical solution.

Thanks for listening

RDM

@RDMercer I see your concern and this past year my FIL got diagnosed with dementia and he would have these intermittent bouts of confusion.

A person can develop early onset dementia/Alzheimer’s.

How old is your wife?

That being said, I have also witnessed strange episodes when someone is abusing alcohol too. I have seen these blowups and strange behaviors in blackouts. Blackouts are scary because a person acts strange and genuinely doesn’t remember what they said or did. And some can get real mean and verbally abusive.

Years ago a friend told me “if you argue about alcohol with a spouse/partner THERE IS A PROBLEM”. She left her husband and he died of alcoholism “Young”.

Same with a friend I had, died at only 50 years old. I tried to help her and even went to meetings with her. She kept going back to drinking.

You can’t make a person stop.

Now when I come across this problem be it IRL or on the net I distance for my own mental health.

What kind of surgery did your wife have?

I know what it's "like" a lot of things. I know what it's like to be married for forty years to a severely mentally ill man who also has extreme PTSD from his time in infantry in Vietnam. He flatly refuses any type of treatment - while I have struggled with my own mental health challenges, remaining in treatment for the past 42 years. And I know what it takes to raise successful children who have two parents with mental illnesses. Do I know what "it's like" to fear for the brain health of someone who is precious to me? Yeah. I help care for my older sister who has developed dementia this year. So I know a few things. I was born in the afternoon, but not yesterday afternoon.

I maintain my opinion. Based upon what you've posted here, and in my opinion, you are parentifying your children. You are making your children the adult you need to be. Take charge and fix your situation or don't fix your situation, but please stop dragging your kids into the mess. They are not your peers.

Easy,
Beth

Your wife is an alcoholic. Severe crisis you describe, or whatever you call it, is a behavior of an addict. She also needs an evaluation for potential personality disorder. Her memory glitches could be alcohol induced as well as skillful manipulation. None of that excuses her outrageous behaviors though

She also created a situation where you can never leave as she is fully dependent on you and you’d have to support two households. If there was no you, she’d be forced to get and keep a job like the rest of us. She’s not on disability (which she probably knows she’d not qualify for). And at this point knowing about possibility of divorce, she’ll be sure to never work or apply for disability because that might make it easier for you to leave or might make alimony smaller. No way. She’d be moping on a couch from now on forward. She knows what she’s doing. Making sure you can never leave

Your children sound very responsible and wise in this situation. Living in turmoil and chaos and now being dragged in a middle of your marriage they are the only ones maintaining sanity.

Do you have any family members or friends who can take care of your kids removing them from your home? The adult child can’t really take care of the young ones. Although it sounds like he’d do a good job, he sounds very responsible. You don’t want to leave her, fine, don’t. But get the kids out of your household please.

It must be overwhelming for you right now.

I know you’ve written about therapy being unaffordable for yourself right now, but it sounds like you could benefit from some real life/face to face support. It’s understandable you don’t want to talk to family and friends about your personal relationship.

Have you looked into other options for low cost/free support? I’m thinking about Al Anon, NAMI, Co Dependents anonymous. There may be others, I’m not in the US sorry. It can be useful to talk to others going through similar situations, at the least you might feel less alone. You deserve more support than you seem to be getting (as do your children) imo.

Quote:

Originally Posted by divine1966 .... Do you have any family members or friends who can take care of your kids removing them from your home? The adult child can’t really take care of the young ones. Although it sounds like he’d do a good job, he sounds very responsible. You don’t want to leave her, fine, don’t. But get the kids out of your household please.

This ^^^^^

RDMercer are you ok? Your history is such that you had a lot of exposure to alcoholism and were treated as your feelings don’t matter. You show many signs of believing it’s your fault if someone else’s needs are not met.

You deserve to have your own feelings.

Hi @RDMercer hope you did not get scared away from your thread.

No, I'm not scared away. I just needed a couple of days to let the swirl in my mind settle.

RDM