[jesyka]

I tried to communicate a few things with my people pleaser friend today & she got really upset. I didn’t say anything that was out of line.

I just told her that I felt I was being ignored & I used ‘I’ statements. I told her that when I didn’t get a response to invites that I felt ignored & dismissed. I said that I’d appreciate a yes or no answer.

I did mention that I understood that she’s busy, but that I’d appreciate an answer as soon as possible & not have to wait a long time for an answer as I could invite another friend out if she’s not interested in doing something. She acted dismissive & said that since I don’t work, I don’t understand things, etc.

I also asked her about plans we made to spend the night at this beach town & she ignored me again. I brought that up & told her that I was hurt when I never got a response back. It was her idea, so she was interested in going.

I also mentioned that she used to intiate plans in the past, but that hasn’t happened for a long time.

And that hurt my feelings. Anyways, she texted me back & accused me of ruining her day & accusing me of calling her an awful person which I never did.

She then gaslit me more by saying that she planned to go to that beach town with me & that I have a short term memory. What? I remember that. I just asked her when she’d be available & to book the room.

I didn’t forget, lol. She used the good old ‘I’m busy’ excuse & that none of her other friends are like this & they all understand this but me.

She always uses work or her health as an excuse for everything every time I try to openly communicate with her about things which btw almost never happens because of how she reacts to honesty.

It seems like she hates ‘confrontation’ & is really angry at the fact that I refuse to accept her indirect passive aggressive behavior.

It’s like she is angry that I’m expecting her to respond to me directly & honestly. Idk.

Why is she lashing out at me like this & gaslighting me? All I wanted was to have a mature & honest discussion with her.

She kept accusing me of accusing her of being a bad horrible person. Wth? And that I ruined her day & that I stressed her put, etc. Ugh!

Now I feel like I can never be honest with her again. It seems like maybe she is trying to manipulate me into ‘behaving’ the way she thinks I should behave to make her feel more comfortable with things.

She agreed to call me later, but I feel like she’ll rehash the same gulit inducing crap & them say she has to go in order to manipulate me into never daring to upset her again with the truth.

Now I feel like I’ll need to censor myself around her. She isn’t the person I thought she was.

She just doesn’t want to hear about certain things that bother her. She has blown me off before by saying, I don’t want to deal with any ‘drama’ when I tried to warn her about a toxic mutual friend who was using her.

It’s almost like she wants everything to be sunshine & rainbows on my end all the time now, ugh! I understand that she’s busy & stressed, but to avoid talking about any issue at all isn’t good.

Why is she acting like this? What can I say to her to get her to see that I’m not attacking her? I told her I’m not attacking her but she doesn’t seem to believe that.

[Discombobulated]

I guess this comes down to her perception. She feels attacked, even if you didn’t mean for her to feel that.

If I’ve ever had a situation whereby I’ve inadvertently upset someone or they have me I find it helpful to step back and give space. Then I think carefully about what to say. This depends on the context but I always begin by thanking them for their friendship and honesty and express that I hope we can work through this. I apologise for my contribution to the upset.

This is how I have handled things in the past anyhow- it sounds like your friend is being honest with you here and that could be a good sign, rather than just ghosting you.

[divine1966]

Well same as you have rights to be upset about what people do or don’t do they have these rights too. She was upset and felt attacked. You often feel all kind of ways about other people and their actions or words. Why is it so unusual or unacceptable that she’s upset.

Honestly work and health are legit reasons not to hang out. Not being passive aggressive

[FloatThruThis]

Hi jesyka. Did you have this conversation over text/email? Sometimes it’s better to have these more serious in depth discussions face to face. I know you’ve been having a hard time getting together with her face to face, so I understand why you would bring it up over text/email, but it’s sometimes difficult to discern someone’s tone without talking in person. Sometimes too, people say things over text/email that they might not say to your face. Anyway, I’m no relationship expert, so take what I say with a shaker of salt! Best of luck to you working things through with your friend!

[jesyka]

Originally Posted by Discombobulated

I guess this comes down to her perception. She feels attacked, even if you didn’t mean for her to feel that.

If I’ve ever had a situation whereby I’ve inadvertently upset someone or they have me I find it helpful to step back and give space. Then I think carefully about what to say. This depends on the context but I always begin by thanking them for their friendship and honesty and express that I hope we can work through this. I apologise for my contribution to the upset.

This is how I have handled things in the past anyhow- it sounds like your friend is being honest with you here and that could be a good sign, rather than just ghosting you.

I understand. I don’t think that i can ever be honest with her again. She’ll just probably end up accusing me of ‘attacking’ her again, ugh.

[jesyka]

Originally Posted by divine1966

Well same as you have rights to be upset about what people do or don’t do they have these rights too. She was upset and felt attacked. You often feel all kind of ways about other people and their actions or words. Why is it so unusual or unacceptable that she’s upset.

Honestly work and health are legit reasons not to hang out. Not being passive aggressive

I understand that. The pint is that she accused me of attacking her when all zi was doing was expressing my honest feelings.

I dont think that I can ever be honest with her again.. She’ll just get upset again, ugh. Why can’t some people communicate honestly & not get upset so easily?

[jesyka]

Originally Posted by FloatThruThis

Hi jesyka. Did you have this conversation over text/email? Sometimes it’s better to have these more serious in depth discussions face to face. I know you’ve been having a hard time getting together with her face to face, so I understand why you would bring it up over text/email, but it’s sometimes difficult to discern someone’s tone without talking in person. Sometimes too, people say things over text/email that they might not say to your face. Anyway, I’m no relationship expert, so take what I say with a shaker of salt! Best of luck to you working things through with your friend!

Yes, it was done over text. It’s been impossible to get together with her these days. It seems like she’s avoiding me.

You’re right about what you said. I had every intention of discussing things with her in person because of that.

[AzulOscuro]

Hello, Jesyka!
What Discombobulated is saying about give a step back or give some space for you both to cool down is a good idea. Nonetheless you might write to her and tell her that you wanted to bring up a topic you were worry about but that you never refer to her as a whole person, only about a characteristic or some stuff between you both.

Do you really think she’s ghosting you? If so, I would try to make appointments with other people. It’s you the one who can know it. We can’t. Because we are not in the situation.

[AzulOscuro]

Originally Posted by jesyka

I understand. I don’t think that i can ever be honest with her again. She’ll just probably end up accusing me of ‘attacking’ her again, ugh.

Yes, you can. Only try to choose carefully how you convey your message and choosing the right moments.
Conversations works. Believe me.

[divine1966]

I think texting is not a good method to confront someone. .

[Bill3]

What can I say to her to get her to see that I’m not attacking her? I told her I’m not attacking her but she doesn’t seem to believe that.

What you think of her--that she gaslights you, that she is passive aggressive, that she manipulates you, that she uses work or health as an excuse for everything--might very well be perceived by her, and considered to be attacks.

none of her other friends are like this & they all understand this but me.

It seems that you and she have different expectations as to what a friendship should be. Why do you want to be friends with her? Her understanding of friendship consistently gets you very upset.

[jesyka]

Originally Posted by AzulOscuro

Hello, Jesyka!
What Discombobulated is saying about give a step back or give some space for you both to cool down is a good idea. Nonetheless you might write to her and tell her that you wanted to bring up a topic you were worry about but that you never refer to her as a whole person, only about a characteristic or some stuff between you both.

Do you really think she’s ghosting you? If so, I would try to make appointments with other people. It’s you the one who can know it. We can’t. Because we are not in the situation.

Idk what’s going on, but she said she was busy the last three times i invited her out. And she itnored my invite to a concert & the plan to go spend the night at this beach town which was her idea.

The last time I daw her was around the 4th of July. Her husband & her took me out to dinner for my birthday.

The only reason why she might be ignoring me is that she got tired of hearing me talk about my issues with my husband & would rather ghost me than have the courage to say that she doesn’t want to hear about things anymore, ugh.

I don’t talk about him excessively, but for her, it might be excessive to talk about him at all now. So I’ll stop. She’d rather talk about her issues & stupid stuff like dumb jokes & farting which she thinks is funny, ugh.

[jesyka]

Originally Posted by Bill3

What you think of her--that she gaslights you, that she is passive aggressive, that she manipulates you, that she uses work or health as an excuse for everything--might very well be perceived by her, and considered to be attacks.

I never called her any of thise things in the yext aside frim the gaslighting. I tild her that U mever called her an awful person. She accused me of that numerous times. She was just upset at me for being honest & making stuff up. I didn’t say that though. I simply told her I never called her a horrible person which is the truth.

It seems that you and she have different expectations as to what a friendship should be. Why do you want to be friends with her? Her understanding of friendship consistently gets you very upset.

We do . I expect people to be honest & direct & not b.s me with lame excuses. I want to be treated with respect. I don’t feel as if I’m being respected.

[divine1966]

If you saw her on 4th of July it’s only a month ago. Married employed people with busy lives don’t see friends more often than that. And if she has other friends and obligations, seeing you more often is unreasonable. How often is she supposed to see you?

Your issues with these people are mostly because you want lots of time with them but it’s unreasonable. You need hobbies and interests that you can enrich your life with

. It also seems to me that you want to be with these women because you need company for activities. You don’t seem to see them because you like them. You don’t seem to like them. You only ever have bad things to say about them.

If you only need them for activities, they can’t be always available, their free time is limited. And when they tell you they are busy you call it lying, passive aggressive, gaslighting etc You want them honest and direct but when they are honest and direct, you call them liars. It’s a vicious cycle. You need something else. This doesn’t seem to be working

[rechu]

I have to agree a lot with what Divine is saying. I was trying to find a way to say something similar, but figured I'd get a bad reaction. A lot of the way you describe these people sounds somewhat abrasive. People pleaser could be seen as an insult. I don't know how you deal with these women in person, but they may be picking up on your attitude and pulling back as a result.

[RollercoasterLover]

I used to consider being called a "people pleaser" an insult. The label from others who were more demanding and lacked understanding of me as a person definitely pushed me away. People who demanded my limited time and energy didn't deserve my time or my energy.

I remember very well the day I spoke truthfully to someone who constantly demanded an answer to do them a favor. I was trying to change my existing plans so I could do them the favor, even going so far as to find childcare at a significant cost to me. When this person said I wasn't a good friend because I was never there for her anymore and all she wanted was a yes or no, I suddenly became very honest and told her I could not help her without incurring a significant expense. She said I was lying that she would pay for whatever costs i incurred. When I sent her the email from the only babysitter available at the last minute on a holiday weekend and asked her pay so I could help her. She never replied. She also never paid.

I'm telling you this because you asked and you wanted someone to be honest. Relationships are not one way streets. They are 5 lane highways in both directions.

[rjdb]

Originally Posted by RollercoasterLover

I used to consider being called a "people pleaser" an insult. The label from others who were more demanding and lacked understanding of me as a person definitely pushed me away. People who demanded my limited time and energy didn't deserve my time or my energy.

I remember very well the day I spoke truthfully to someone who constantly demanded an answer to do them a favor. I was trying to change my existing plans so I could do them the favor, even going so far as to find childcare at a significant cost to me. When this person said I wasn't a good friend because I was never there for her anymore and all she wanted was a yes or no, I suddenly became very honest and told her I could not help her without incurring a significant expense. She said I was lying that she would pay for whatever costs i incurred. When I sent her the email from the only babysitter available at the last minute on a holiday weekend and asked her pay so I could help her. She never replied. She also never paid.

I'm telling you this because you asked and you wanted someone to be honest. Relationships are not one way streets. They are 5 lane highways in both directions.

It's not an insult, it's just a fact. Some people are just way too into pleasing other people then worrying about themselves, to their own detriment. It's rare but it exists.

[TishaBuv]

Here’s the crux of the issue: “ I expect people to be honest & direct & not b.s me with lame excuses.”

These people are not acting the way you say you expect. The more accurate word to use is “want” rather than “expect”. You want them to act the way you want. They don’t act this way. Instead they do bs you with lame excuses. This is just what they do. You are frustrated because you can’t get them to act the way you want them to.

I suggest you look at it more accurately and realistically. Accept how someone really acts and meet them where they are, respond accordingly. You may not get any better results to build a healthier relationship because it seems very clear this friend keeps blowing you off, but at least you will spare yourself frustration.

[Embracingtruth]

Thematically this all boils down to the same thing we were discussing on the previous thread. She is not a person who wants to be confrontational. Her definition of that differs from yours, but it doesn't make her wrong anymore than it makes you wrong. You're different people and you need to understand (and respect) those differences. If you understand no when its delivered differently than the direct approach, then accept that. "Reading between the lines" is a frustrated description you gave on the other thread. Its more about understanding the person. If you know her well enough to understand she is not purposely trying to hurt you, then quit putting yourself in circumstance where you emotionally feel she is. You need to accept who it is she is and how she handles these matters. And if those differences between you and her bother you to where you have to be confrontational with her, then you need to ask yourself why you're even there. Be honest with yourself.

Are you wanting more than what is actually there and perhaps that frustration is what's at the heart of this issue? Because the general complaint of her being essentially unreliable is an easy fix. Quit wasting your time with her. Move on to people who are more your personality type and alleviate these issues that are making you lash out. If the answer lies beyond the surface complaint, then step back and examine whether this person is a viable match for you and whether you should be pursuing this. If you feel like you need her companionship, then you need to yield to the characteristics that define her and quit trying to change her which is only going to push her away.

[Fuzzybear]

Originally Posted by Embracingtruth

Thematically this all boils down to the same thing we were discussing on the previous thread. She is not a person who wants to be confrontational. Her definition of that differs from yours, but it doesn't make her wrong anymore than it makes you wrong. You're different people and you need to understand (and respect) those differences. If you understand no when its delivered differently than the direct approach, then accept that. "Reading between the lines" is a frustrated description you gave on the other thread. Its more about understanding the person. If you know her well enough to understand she is not purposely trying to hurt you, then quit putting yourself in circumstance where you emotionally feel she is. You need to accept who it is she is and how she handles these matters. And if those differences between you and her bother you to where you have to be confrontational with her, then you need to ask yourself why you're even there. Be honest with yourself.

Are you wanting more than what is actually there and perhaps that frustration is what's at the heart of this issue? Because the general complaint of her being essentially unreliable is an easy fix. Quit wasting your time with her. Move on to people who are more your personality type and alleviate these issues that are making you lash out. If the answer lies beyond the surface complaint, then step back and examine whether this person is a viable match for you and whether you should be pursuing this. If you feel like you need her companionship, then you need to yield to the characteristics that define her and quit trying to change her which is only going to push her away.

Good post

[AzulOscuro]

@jesyka, hi, how are you doing?
What did you decided to do in regards to your friend?
I told you in the other thread that you are the best to know if she is ghosting? You said you wasn’t sure.
I think you know it at this point in time.

Sometimes, it’s hard to put in the other person’s shoes and we want things made our way and people are different even the same individual is different under different circumstances.

I tend to use social vaseline if I have to say no to someone when the explanation to this “no” may hurt the feelings of the other person.
For example, I met an acquaintance who use drugs. I thought she was clean. She sometimes asked me to hang in up. I already did it but when I saw that going out with her, the probabilities to meet not very appropriate people were high, I’m rejecting her requests by telling her things like, yes, we must meet up someday, or I give her the excuse that I have to be with my partner. After a couple of excuses like that, she understood. She, of course, doesn’t know why and I feel bad because I don’t dislike her as a person. I have my reasons.

It’s needed to know to let go. Life sometimes is more complicated than to give a yes or a no for an answer.

I’m putting you this example so you can understand that I’m different to you. And I can see things the other way around.

I have been also rejected and what can I do? I’m not going to go to the other person to complain or to look for an explanation. They have their motives and all we can do is to focus on ourselves and move on. Don’t take this possible rejection as personal. Sometimes, people spend time together but each relation is different. Maybe, she can share some time with you but not always. She has a job, a husband, a sister to visit. We should understand this as well.

It doesn’t mean your feelings aren’t important. It sucks. Me, as a person who has been rejected, just like everybody else in their lives, I only asked myself if I did something wrong in this relationship worthy to learnt about and move on.

If I say that I would give up with a person because I have no other option, the value I give to that person is few. This is not fair and maybe the other person may catch it up.

Jesyka, I’m not going against you or saying you’re wrong. Your feelings are important and I ask you for other considerations to the ones you’re exposing.

Many times it has nothing to do with a people pleaser. I’m not. Or passive aggressive. Passive aggressive is for example, cut any contact suddenly only because the other person who is the only owner of their own time, took a while to answer you and you made him known with an aggressive reply. (I’m putting an example, nothing to do with you)

Take a time as Discombobulated told you in the other thread and maybe made an appointment with her so you can know finally what she’s at.

My apologise for this long text. I wish the best for you.

[Tart Cherry Jam]

Originally Posted by Bill3

What you think of her--that she gaslights you, that she is passive aggressive, that she manipulates you, that she uses work or health as an excuse for everything--might very well be perceived by her, and considered to be attacks.

I agree with Bill. Just because you did not say to her outright that you were attacking her, and possibly did not think in your mind that you attacked, does not mean that you did not send loud signals of an attack to her.

I also understand how you might feel that her telling you that you "do not understand" because you "do not work" is dismissive of you, and hurtful. So it appears that on both ends there are some hurtful communications going on.

[eskielover]

I just told her that I felt I was being ignored & I used ‘I’ statements. I told her that when I didn’t get a response to invites that I felt ignored & dismissed. I said that I’d appreciate a yes or no answer.

I had a friend who used the 'I' statements in very passive aggressive ways. Just because 'I' statements are used doesn't mean that what you said didn't come across to her as attacking.

It is obvious that neither of you is really compatible to be friends. Why don't you just stick with people who do exactly what you want so you don't have to continually complain about someone.

I would just leave her alone. If she ever wants to talk to you or make plans let her be the one that reaches out to you, otherwise you know exactly where you stand if she never calls you again. Let it go.

You complain about your husband, you complain about her, sounds like you are very practiced at being critical of other people whovdon't do or aren't exactly what yiu want from them. That is a good way to lose many people you might want to have as friends. It is a very negative attitude you seem to have when people aren't exactly what you expect them to be. They have a right to be who they are & if it isn't compatible with what you expect, don't hang around trying to change them. Go on to friends who are what you expect

[jesyka]

Originally Posted by divine1966

If you saw her on 4th of July it’s only a month ago. Married employed people with busy lives don’t see friends more often than that. And if she has other friends and obligations, seeing you more often is unreasonable. How often is she supposed to see you?

Your issues with these people are mostly because you want lots of time with them but it’s unreasonable. You need hobbies and interests that you can enrich your life with

. It also seems to me that you want to be with these women because you need company for activities. You don’t seem to see them because you like them. You don’t seem to like them. You only ever have bad things to say about them.

If you only need them for activities, they can’t be always available, their free time is limited. And when they tell you they are busy you call it lying, passive aggressive, gaslighting etc You want them honest and direct but when they are honest and direct, you call them liars. It’s a vicious cycle. You need something else. This doesn’t seem to be working

I understand that people don’t always have the time to get together. What I was trying to say is that I didn’t like the fact that my friend stopped intiating plens & it did feel like she was trying to avoid me with her non responses.

I do like the people I mentioned enough to still be their friend. Especially this friend. I admit the ones in my small group are mostly avtivity friends. I find them to be mostly self absorbed.

Not this one. It did me some good to speak up as we talked on the phone & she’s not upset with me. She just snspped because she was tired she said.

We’re going to lunch on Friday. She works where I live. I think that my message got through to her. Snd we’re going to the concert I mentioned.

I don’t think the issue or the problem lies solely with me. I really do tend to attract self absorbed people mostly who only want to talk about themselves & who tend to use me as a back up plan when no one else is available which sucks.

I feel like I deserve better than that. On a positive note, things are going OK with two new aquaintences. As my bad luck goes, of course they have a lot of issues & limitations. It ranges from illness to money issues, can’t function in crowds due to anxiety, etc.

Ugh. I need to tolerate that though. I wish that I could meet people who didn’t have so many issues.

[jesyka]

Originally Posted by rechu

I have to agree a lot with what Divine is saying. I was trying to find a way to say something similar, but figured I'd get a bad reaction. A lot of the way you describe these people sounds somewhat abrasive. People pleaser could be seen as an insult. I don't know how you deal with these women in person, but they may be picking up on your attitude and pulling back as a result.

I’m not abrasive. I’m honest. I didn’t call her any of the things I mentioned on here. I only told her to not gaslight me when she accused me of calling her a horrible person as I never said that ever.

If being honest is being abrasive, then I don’t know what to tell you. What should I do? Lie? How will that resolve any issues?

I tell it like it us. I don’t b.s. My friend likes the fact that I’m real & not a phony. It seems like people tend to find honesty to be offensive which is a problem with them, not me.

I admit, I honestly have no problem hurting someone’s feelings when they mistreat & abuse me. Example, I called out that former mooch friend & shamed her to her face for being a user & a liar. How dare she tried to use my friend & I. She deserved what she got, lol.