i think i always look, and feel stupid when with others

Hey bhugz, it's ok (((((((bhugz)))))))
I can relate to what you said about not being yourself since the tragic event. I wasn't molested, but a thing (series of things) happened to me that turned my life upside down too. I can pinpoint the the experience and feelings I had because it was afterwards that everything changed. For me, it deflated my self esteem so bad that it really wiped out the person I had been before, like erasing a blackboard, there was nothing left anymore. A lot of people go thru tragedy and still are themselves, having some tools to work with for recovery, but in my case, and it sounds like yours too, everything we knew was wiped away.
Not trusting anymore, we isolate and it's difficult, if not impossible for others to reach us. I felt as if my life had become a one-way experience. I had the ability to hear and understand and feel others pain at an amplified level, but for myself, I only knew the pain. I didn't understand what had happened to me. Where had I gone? How do you lose your personality? No one I talked to understood. I felt like I was floating in space, still had enough oxygen to breathe, but unconnected and drifting with nothing to grab onto and in the distant darkness I could see earth, but no way to reach it.
My family didn't help much (at all) either. I always felt weird. I tried so hard to make a connection with them, but it just wasn't there. They were actually a big part of the breakdown I had, but I still wanted to be a part of the only tie I had to people. Now that I'm older I can see their dysfunction and I've been able to stop blaming myself a little for the things that happened. Younger, I really looked up to them though and they were always right and knew the answers. I try to keep a healthy distance now but still be there when they need me. Not living with them makes a big difference. Think about the reason you are unmotivated. If you worked for a corporation and were belittled by the boss and mistreated, disrespected, you wouldn't like the job much, you wouldn't like your boss much, and you wouldn't be inclined or motivated to do your best. So is it really laziness or unhappiness? Like a job, we are stuck with our family for a certain period of time in our lives. Like the job we hate, we go everyday because it gives something we need to survive. Mnay people have a love/hate relationship with their work, and the same can be said of their families. When the rewards no longer compensate for the emotional cost, it's time to move on. Even if you can't do it physically, mentally you've detached and left long before you actually leave. Again, love yourself and forgive yourself for not doing better. We all are only human and like the wildflowers in the field need some sun to go with the rain. Who you are now is not who you will always be, or how you will always be. A change in environment does wonders for the soul like the flower we transplant to a shadier place.
I'm sorry I get so long winded, but I really care and hope this helps.

P.S. I sent you a private message. You should see a flashing envelope at the top of your screen. Click on it and it will take you to the private message area

"Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but rising every time we fall." Confucius

I can relate to that, it becomes one of my hangups when around others but not all the people mainly new people, I just keep fighting that feeling, it is very difficult at times but I do finally manage to overcome it, I just regret all the possible friendships I could of had if I would have had a stronger handle on this hangup as I do now. It takes working on but you can get through this obstacle. Secret. . . we aren't stupid, there's some encouraging words for you, and a big smile
Take care now,
"darkeyes"

In giving advice seek to help, not please your friend
SOLON

Hi Bhugz,
I’ve thinking too about your previous post where you mention the “split” of your projected good and the suppressed bad feelings leading to a sense of confusion and distrust of your own assessment and that of others too.

“i mean, i tried having a super angelic front so that others may see all my good qualites, while having really bad feelings inside.
my smiles would not absolutely coordinate with good feelings.’

“my feelings always confuse me.
this led me to stop trusting my own judgments and that of others too.”
i always had the feeling that others, esp. those who are close to me, are backbiting me.

You highlight your suspicion that those in your inner circle are “backbiting” you. Bhugz, consider for a moment that your analysis might be distorted by your anxiety. I suggest it is paranoia, a reflection of your negative perception of yourself and the assumption that that is how others think and feel about you. Many times we project our own thinking onto others, usually with inferior results. It is difficult to accept good will from others if we can’t perceive our worthiness. No one could really love me because I'm not lovable??

“and sometimes i'm not sure with any feeling that i have.
if i begin to feel that i am good or i have made something good... there's always that bad feeling underneath.”

Your turmoil is relative to your confusion when trying to reconcile the “good” and the “bad” with in yourself. In my own experience, when I have unpleasant thoughts and subsequent feelings about myself and/or others. I can frequently neutralise such feelings by going back to the root and seeing where I have potentially distorted a very limited view of events. Similar to the house guest complaining about the noise in one of my stories, we tend to look for black and white interpretations of good and bad, right and wrong. If I go into it further I can forgive myself for having a limited [me] view and then broaden it to encompass other [potentially pleasant] outcomes as equally plausible.

When we hold a positively negative view of ourselves it is hard to imagine overcoming it because or the very nature of how we perceive situations, which we then hold up as evidence and justification for our position. For myself the challenge is to arrest the distorted thinking before I run too far with it where it balloons out and becomes consuming. Such mindsets are difficult to over ride when we have spent so much time reinforcing them.

Congratulate yourself Bhugz. You have clearly put effort into living in harmony with others by living your better nature. As they say “Put your best foot forward”.

As Nowheretorun has explained we must love all of ourself; the good, the bad …and the ugly! While we refuse to process and express parts of ourselves we effectively suppress those aspects which we fear make us unlovable. We develop our own secret self! Secrets, like lies produce an associated anxiety – the fear of discovery!!

The longer we travel this path we anticipate rejection if others knew the “real” me lurking under the good/happy mask. What we lock inside stays inside and we allow that to represent that which is “inside us” …the “real me”. Somehow, the energy we use to suppress those aspects which we fear, elevates them out of proportion, invalidating and nullifying our better nature in the process. We can feel “split” and confused. Doesn’t the pleasant nature you have allowed yourself to express, originate from inside also?

Rightly, we find others will fairly consistently respond favourably to honey over vinegar but that is not to say that vinegar should be denied expression. Feelings give rise to thoughts and inversely thoughts give rise to feelings. In my experience, my responsive feelings, though predictable can follow an irrational path. I can more easily apply rational analysis to my thoughts. Get in the drivers seat Bhugz. When we become conscious of our feelings and thoughts, thoughts and feelings we are better placed to integrate and process them to favourable outcomes.

Nowheretorun wrote of forgiveness. It is truly is essential for self love to arise embracing, rather than in spite of, our “failings”. Remember Babe Ruth struck out 4000 times, he is however an all time champion hitter of over 1000 home runs. The ratio is relative.

Balance and proportion are helpful keys to releasing us from our distorted self image. Consider too how very little we know of others and their “secrets”. Approach your “perfect” friend at college and she will have her own list of personal failings, she is however is not debilitated by them. Keeping them in balance and proportion she can carry herself with alluring confidence. “Rolling with the punches” is what we do when we are struck by a situation which initially throws our balance, we then adjust and rebound maintaining or regaining our composure.

I do not need to be right to feel good about myself. We are not all experts but that does not preclude us from having an opinion or comment on a given topic. Sometimes our ignorance becomes evident however that does not require us to apologise for breathing. I have learnt to defer graciously, “Hmmm, I didn’t know that.” No loss of face in that is there? It certainly doesn’t qualify me as stupid. Which is where you came in …feeling stupid. Bhugz, you know you are not stupid.

You do not need the approval of others to validate yourself. You need instead your own approval. Reflect on the many things you can do and know well and ask yourself how is that diminished by the things you don’t do or know well? It is not. The Desiderata reads:

“If you compare yourself to others you may become vain and bitter, for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself. Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans.”

“i really wanted to learn
how to become motivated,
to converse with people
and to have long-lasting friendships.
i want to feel better and better everyday!”

Avoid comparing yourself with Princess Perfect and be comfortable being yourself, we all bring something to the table, as Nowheretorun explained you are uniquely you. CHOOSE to grow confidence and SELF esteem using all the strategies available to you and your social discomfort will likely fade correspondingly. Wilfully choose thoughts to counter your feelings of anxiety and those thoughts will erupt positive feelings and wellbeing. You will be going “from strength to strength”. It is rather like, as you say, hypnotizing yourself by introducing positives and accepting them through repetition, the same way the negatives gained their hold!

Regards Frances
PS sorry I’m behind the eight ball with my posting my computer is not performing as I would like and I have been losing a lot of stuff to cyberspace. I had this in a Word file, I hope it is not too repetitious like sending coal to Newcastle.

“My true self has been silenced ever since I was molested. And everything that the world has perceived about me was just my way to fulfill my need to survive and not to fulfill my own happiness.”

I hear in this more of what you said about your split feelings. Please consider my comments about giving expression to your anger and heartache, the pressure as it builds from inside will bring on an eruption. You can avoid such an outcome if you openly and honestly confront your feelings and thoughts. I really recommend you make contact with a therapist/counsellor/psyche to initiate a formal programme of healing. Like I have said in the forums before we can take steps toward recovery/management without having to touch bottom first.

You speak of humiliation and that is possibly a perpetuated feeling from your earlier experiences of being molested as a child. The child can not readily deal with such experiences and internalises it believing that to be their worth. Bhugz, you are entitled to so much more. As Nowheretorun has indicated we can become alienated from the very people whom can help us, so find ways to reach out to your family for help, understanding and acceptance. Know that they love you and what truly good things for you. Avoid looking down the spiral of misery and choose instead to look up the spiral of recovery to well being. Set small goals and pursue them. Do one then another. You will Bhugz go from strength to strength.

With sincere regard
Frances.

I am continuing to learn a lot from this thread of posts even though it is not specifically directed at me. Thank you, and best wishes to you (((Bhugz))); you have some good friends giving you wise counsel here. :-)

<font color=blue>HI FROM PEANUT :-)</font color=blue>

hi!
my social anxiety seems to be decreasing... at least somehow, i know how to make myself comfortable more than anything else. i do what i want to do, and i learn to realize things as i do my own way. i just needed to speak more and participate actively in discussions. i'm just worried that i'm perceiving things in the opposite way or by irrationality and then i might appear foolish. and i still have paranoia. i can't get rid of it. but at least i can minimize thinking that someone is backbiting me.
: )
someday, i wish i can have a more positive report on my emotional and psychological health.
: )
i had a nice day!
Good day peeps!

cool !!!


"Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but rising every time we fall." Confucius

bhugz, I can relate so closely to your experience!! I am 23 and I am extremely shy...and I get embarrassed very easily...even just small mistakes I make...
Just so you know you are not alone!!!
Hope we'll get better soon!

: )
yes, we'll get better! ...because i feel i'm getting better now.
i'm allowing myself to just Be Myself! ..and i'm learning to love and accept both the things i can do and can't do.
enjoy life by loving "YOU"!
have a nice day!

I am going to throw a new angle at you. It might be way off base, even inappropriate. But at the risk it might help you put a handle on it (as it did for me) try out the personality test here: <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.4degreez.com/misc/personality_disorder_test.mv>http://www.4degreez.com/misc/personality_disorder_test.mv</A>

It showed me with traits of schizotypal personality. My pdoc agreed that the description fit me, but she prefers to think of the personality "disorders" as "characteristics", or ways to describe personality, not pathologize it. Some of my traits sound similar to what you describe for yourself.

Anyway, this was helpful to me and started me on the road to a lot more important self-discovery. What was helpful was realizing that the cluster of traits was so common that they even had a name for it. I was not really unique and alone with my social discomforts.

Here is my test result from a few minutes ago. I have taken it several times over a few months and it is very consistent.
Disorder | Rating
Paranoid: Moderate
Schizoid: Moderate
Schizotypal: Very High
Antisocial: Low
Borderline: Moderate
Histrionic: High
Narcissistic: Moderate
Avoidant: Very High
Dependent: Very High
Obsessive-Compulsive: Moderate

That was interesting. I just tried that personality test too. Here are my results:
Disorder | Rating
Paranoid: High
Schizoid: Moderate
Schizotypal: High
Antisocial: Low
Borderline: Very High
Histrionic: High
Narcissistic: Moderate
Avoidant: Very High
Dependent: High
Obsessive-Compulsive: High

I find that I have to be careful with tests like this because it's too easy to convince myself that I'm so much worse than I am - no matter what the test is for. I have been diagnosed with dependend and avoidant personality disorders. I wouldn't have said that I had this many personality disorders or to this extent though.

Personality disorders are Axis II, and lots of people have them but don't need to do anything about it (as in therapy, etc.) because it doesn't cause a significant problem for them, but some people have more of a problem with it than others do.

<font color=green>Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that, you, too, can become great. -Mark Twain</font color=green>

Well that was fun. Here are my results.

Paranoild: Moderate
Schizoid: Low
Schizoidtypal: high
Antisocial: high
Borderline: very high
Histrionic: High
Narcissistic: High
Avoidant: Very High
Dependant: High
Obsessive-compulsive: Moderate

I have issues with the avoidant and antisocial findings. Yes I am very quiet in social situations and I would rather be alone and all that but I seek out social situations dispite my extreme discomfort so does that still make me avoidant and antisocial? I don't think so, it is just that I am socially inept. The rest of the stuff I can more or less agree on.
Carrie

<font color=green>Not knowing when the dawn will come, I open every door.--Emily Dickenson

People with avoidant personality disorder want to be social but are afraid that they can't. Antisocial personality disorder should have been called something else, as the name of it is misleading. They often have very high social functioning, but they don't care about following the rules of society. I would have scored higher on that one, but on the question where they asked if you have ever been in jail I decided that the reason I was there (and for only two hours) was not what they meant and put no.

The questions ask about things that are listed as symptoms of the various personality disorders, but it's value for diagnosis I don't think is really that great. If you actually look at the DSM criteria, someone has to meet a certain number of the criteria in order to be diagnosed, and this test just takes an inventory of all the traits and rates you based on how many of them show up. I scored "very high" under borderline, for example, but I don't meet enough of the criteria to have that diagnosis, although I do have two or three of the traits (the minimum is five according to the DSM). So, you really can't say that you have all of those personality disorders on the basis of this test. Does that help?

<font color=green>Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that, you, too, can become great. -Mark Twain</font color=green>

I am not worried about what the test said it is just a fun excercise. I also did the dante's inferno test and I am headed for the second from the lowest pit of hell. Can't remember which one that was. Of course I also rated high on repentance so who's to say, guess it is a crap shoot. ha ha. Oh and very high on lust but *Carrie shrugs her shoulders* eh. What is funny about the personality one though is that so many of the criteria of disorders overlap so it is quite easy to rate high on many of them if you are very high in one of them.

Your discription of anti-social is totally not me. I am extremely paranoid (tee hee) about following the rules. So I did something that could have gotten me thrown in jail once but what is a little breaking and entering when you are with a group of friends? But since I graduated from highschool I have been straight laced and well behaved for the most part...well not if I actually lived in Texas. Then I would be in trouble. Tee hee.

Now the avoidant personality thing, I know I can be social. There is not fear that I can't be, it is just that I am freaking uncomfortable being around loud groups of people. I am often the life of the party...when I go to the party. Ok, so I am a bit avoidant, ha ha. I concede that one, but definately not anti-social.
Carrie

<font color=green>Not knowing when the dawn will come, I open every door.--Emily Dickenson

The thing about these tests that always irks me is when they are right. Here's mine:

Paranoid: low
Schizoid: low
Schizotypal: Moderate
Antisocial: Low
Borderline: Very High
Histrionic: High
Narcissisitic: Moderate
Avoidant: High
Dependent: Very High
Obsessive-Compulsive: Moderate

Well, I've been diagnosed with dependent personality disorder. I have not been diagnosed as borderline, but it seems whenever I talk to people here who have been, I relate to just about everything they say. Some avoidant behavior is really common with dependent personality disorder, so that makes sense to rate as high but not very high, and I do not fit the criteria for histrionic personality disorder, but I am a bit of a "drama queen". : )

So, I know this test is not really a diagnostic tool, but dang it...it seems to have nailed me perfectly!!! : )

mj

Here are my results ... - That's me!!!

Paranoid: High
Schizoid: Low
Schizotypal: High
Antisocial: Low
Borderline: Very High
Histrionic: Moderate
Narcissistic: Moderate
Avoidant: Very High
Dependent: Very High
Obsessive-Compulsive: Moderate