Why ET and not maternal transference?

Does anyone know some of the reasons/theories as to why some people develop erotic transference versus paternal or maternal transference towards their T's? Or perhaps have a link to some sites/blogs/articles that do?

I'm trying to understand why I have developed ET for my T as opposed to regular maternal transference which logically would make way more sense.

ET usually is a form of maternal and/or paternal transference. In psychoanalytic theory you have pre oedipal and oedipal phases; pre oedipal being the mother and baby period, where you have your first experiences of intimacy... breast/bottle feeding, touching etc. These are nurturing acts but are also experienced in the same way arousal & sexual feelings are. As a baby arousal, pleasure & joy are much the same.

For girls, the oedipal/Electra complex is where you would begin to move away from your mother and look towards your father for affection, around 3/4 years roughly.

If something goes wrong during one or both of these periods, it may affect relationships later on down the line. It may also play out via ET in therapy. For instance, you may not have had the proper care as a baby and keep seeking that lost loving care or had a father who didn't return your affections... cue loving your therapist who is unavailable and unable to return your love. There's lots of reading out there. A really good book (though can be tricky to obtain) is 'In Session' by Deborah Lott. She explains the reasons behind ET and talks to lots of women about their experiences.

I've read quite a bit on transference (including the Lott book). I found some of it helpful early on. After a while though i realized what obfuscating and condescending drivel most of it is. For me it was helpful to just discard all the convoluted narratives and psychobabble. Therapy is not a direct link to our childhood. It is a very weird and anomalous sort of pseudo-relationship that creates its own drama and can be the source of feelings and longings rather than simply a conduit. I say look at what is happening in the room, in that moment, in that context. I found it a huge but subtle seduction, in every sense of the word. And also a major violation and exploitation.

There is an article that really hit home for me. I will post it if you are interested, but it is not an easy read. Could be triggering for some.

Hi Budfox, I have started reading more about it recently and am starting to think that it is mainly based on the past but has also has some relevance to the here and now. I feel that some of the love that is felt is based on the person in the room with you at that moment in time. You may not really 'know' them completely and they may not be showing their whole selves but if they are being authentic in the part of themselves that they are showing I can see how feelings for that person may develop alongside everything else that is happening.

I would be interested in reading that article if you would like to share it.

i read the same Lott book many years ago when i too was looking for answers about the transference and counter transference that was taking place between my ex-T and me. i had a similar dissatisfaction to this highly recommended book that you did Budfox and found it difficult to swallow what Lott was trying to convey. of all the books relating to therapy and psychology that i have ever purchased, i found this one to be the worst and least helpful.

also, i'm definilty interested in reading in the article you have to share

from what i have read, and what TeaVicar? has said, i understand that ET is a form of maternal/paternal transference. The best explanation and information i have come across about transference and countertransference is from Dr Sebern Fisher, specifically in regard to developmental trauma and from more of a neurophysiological perspective. she talks about it in her book: Neurofeedback in the Treatment of Developmental Trauma | Sebern Fisher

here are a couple of excerpts from her book about transference you may find helpful:

Transferrence in developmental truama begins in the felt experince of 'no mother'. Motherlessness is the lowest ring of hell for a baby or small child, creating a background fear of death of obliteration.

Transference expresses the unmet need of the infant. It is about dysregulation. In this paradigm we can look at transference as a nervous system seeking its own regulation from the other, almost always on its own dysregulated but insistent terms. Transference relationships that arise with patients who have suffered developmental trauma are fraught with expectations of mothering and intensified by affect dysregualtion, distrust, and unbearable hunger. For both the patient and the therapist this transference can be challenging to manage.

Had anyone had it move from ET to maternal and stay there? I know the feelings can wax and wane but wondering if there is ever a stage where the ET dissipates completely and leaves behind regular plain old maternal or even none at all? I ask because I'm not attracted to my T at all. She is a much older woman than me. I am also heterosexual and I do not experience the feelings when in session. The last week I have found the ET is not really there. I'm wondering if it's just a lull though and it's only a matter of time before they come back again.

This is the article I was referring to:
Confession 1

I actually found the Lott book somewhat useful, though certainly has problems. My comment was about literature/writing on transference in general. I find most of it idealized to the point of absurdity. It's mostly all the same, an omnipresent sort of propaganda. That's why I found the above article so jarring. It's highly critical and attempts to take the construct apart. Beware, heavy stuff.

I can relate to much of this, and this echoes other things I have read. Others have written about infants using their mother's nervous system to learn to regulate initially. If that did not happen to sufficient extent, then presumably the adult would have ongoing problems with self-regulation, and be partially dependent on others for that regulation. That is partly my reality. And I think this manifested in therapy.

But when they start applying labels and diagnoses, and especially when they conflate such manifestations in therapy with some sort of healing process that can be "managed"... that's where I get off the train. Now we're into snake oil and witchcraft territory.

Judging by what I've read and experienced, when therapists play around in this area there is a good chance they will cause harm. First-do-no-harm means nothing to them. If you have a client who becomes dysregulated, and then the therapist says "oh look, the hour is up, goodbye till next week, better work on your coping skills", well that is a recipe for a paroxysm of dysregulation. The whole thing is set up to cause limbic and sympathetic overdrive. Bonus points if the therapist forbids contact between sessions.

i had both happening (ET and maternal) and at the same time sometimes. most of my transference was maternal and then when there was ET, it usually happened between/out of sessions.

the only way i was successful in lessening my transference was doing neurofeedback in conjunction with my talk therapy. the NFB helped to calm my emotional dysregulation and as i became calmer, much of the transference between my T and me settled. the ruptures that we use to continuously have ended as well. it was as if i was finally able to take a step and approach my therapy from a calmer and more practical perspective that i could never do prior to doing NFB. prior to NFB, i was quite triggered much of the time in and after therapy.

as time went on, and as the transference lessened more, even my T commented on it. he said he was finding it challenging, in a new way, because he had been using my transference as a tool in therapy. he was a bit lost not knowing how to work with me since there was very little transference to work with as a result of the progress i had made with the NFB. i for one was glad that there was not much transference to work with any longer. i was finally starting to feel sane and i definilty enjoying that feeling.

this is why i like what Fisher says about transference and wish i could share all that she writes in her book to explain it. i found myself relating to most of what she wrote in regard to transference, and also what she says about a therapists countertransference to our transference. she explains it so it is
easily understandable, and in a concrete way that does not rely on confusing and mystifying psychobabble. and to her, the solution to easing the transference is simple (with the help of NFB)...calm the dysregulated / over active amygdala, calm the clients emotional dysregulation, calm the transference.

agreed...and Fisher touches on this in her book as well explaining how therapists can do harm when they do not understand or handle a dysregulated client properly and how a Ts negative countertransference to a dysregualted client can seriously damage the therapy.

I don't know what it means to handle a dysregulated client correctly. The assumption seems to be that a person's emotional system can be manipulated with scripted responses, and this will produce healing.

It seems to me a process designed to unravel people. Just getting in the client's face with crazy levels of intense attunement, followed by a forced ending driven by the clock and business demands, could be enough to seriously unbalance someone. Therapists are brainwashed to think this is normal. And if the client freaks out, it's because they're "borderline". This is why I find it so dangerous.

I don't know how to the the quote tool but f*%$, if this isn't me:

"Transference expresses the unmet need of the infant. It is about dysregulation. In this paradigm we can look at transference as a nervous system seeking its own regulation from the other, almost always on its own dysregulated but insistent terms. Transference relationships that arise with patients who have suffered developmental trauma are fraught with expectations of mothering and intensified by affect dysregualtion, distrust, and unbearable hunger. For both the patient and the therapist this transference can be challenging to manage."

I agree that ET is more than just maternal/paternal past issues and it doesn't do us much good to over pathologize. I really relate to the above piece and feel as though that's what's missing from my therapy. I know that I didn't develop normal self regulatory systems and because my therapy is psychoanalytic, I have not been given help with coping mechanisms - we talk, that's it. It isn't enough because now we are going into a break, I'm falling to pieces.

I'm curious if anyone else has experienced this our knows what it is called....

If maternal transference is looking to T as a mother figure, what is it when you have maternal caring feelings towards T? Maternal countertransference? But that would suggest maternal transference on Ts part wouldn't it?

As far as I am aware it doesn't have a name. That doesn't mean it isn't transference though, transference can consist of any feeling at all.

They have only named the most common types of transference, the ones that come up time and time again in therapy. For example, it is very very common for people to want their therapist to hold them and care for them etc. so they gave it a name, maternal transference. Doesn't make your own transference not interesting, or real, or valid though.

I'm pretty sure that countertransference is a word only to describe what the therapist is feeling, in response to your own transference. So technically speaking you couldn't experience countertransference (but at the end of the day, you are both just both 2 human beings in a room and feelings are feelings) .

not that labeling is important, but it might depend on the context.

I've had transference feelings involving multiple characteristics of wanting to take care of T. In my case, it was related to feelings I had when I was young of wanting to comfort my mother to make her feel better. Maybe it was a quest to try to get my mother to be a mother, although it's not always that black and white.

One thing I'm sure of is that I often had to become the parent, and this is something that comes up in my transferences alot.

Others talk about codependency, taking care of others as a way to maintain your identity, be loved or admired, or to control others.

yeah, Sebern Fishers book absolutely clicked with me better than any else i have read, especially in regard to what she wrote about development trauma and the transference/counter transference dynamics that can play out in therapy with clients who are suffering from this kind of truama. it was validating to read what she was writing...she was describing the exact interactions and relationship i had been having with my ex-T in therapy for years and she had the answer to very reason for why it was happening. it was encouraging to read her book because she really seems to 'get it' like no one else ever has.

similar to you TeaVicar, my therapy was mainly psychodynamic and i never really got any good coping skills...just lots of talking and trying to connect the past with the feelings and more times than not, it completely left me overwhelmed, triggered, and in an emotionally dysregulated state for days afterwards. even though Fishers book is about using NFB for developmental truama, i still highly recommend reading it for the information that she provides about developmental trauma, emotional dysregulation, and how it effects the therapy dynamics for both the client and the T.