God, Archtypes, and Jungian Psychology

possibly this discussion has run its course... the subject of panantheism is still out there and that will be my next direction... we can continue as a group or, i can continue on my own a while..

at a time of my journey when i was just beginning to understand, i wrote the following... its' a little embarrassing putting this deep a personal part of yourself out for the world to see, but, it sorta fits, and would be an ok ending on the discussion....

Thank You and God Bless All...

This is a short story (semi-fiction) I've written. There are 7 parts .... i struggled with whether or not to put this up but it keeps coming back to me so i guess i must... love to all

The Healing Part 1. Freedom.

A boy was born. After that the end began. This is no great detour. In fact a corridor to the continuance. Let me explain.

Coming back. The re-entry. No different than most, but different than any other. Makes sense.

Space-Time-Travel-Existence- We are travelling- in space- through time- We exist now.

Actually, we exist always. In some form. There is no death. You will exist forever. In some form.

You are free.

Mans' destiny is freedom- Believe.
Womans' destiny is freedom- Trust.
All things are free- Dream/Truth.

Now is the Time to be Free.

You are here in this space- Now- Free to be Free.

You will continue to travel in space and time forever. In one form or another.

You shall fall as you Desire.
You shall rise as you Dream.
You shall give Light or receive Darkness as you Wish.
You shall have that which is yours in Time.

part.2 Longing

This same boy found himself alone. In the silence he wished, he wanted. He desired. In this shortage, he ached.

In a dream there came the other. In all things the boy wants then were filled then. At waking, he was alone.

At night, all things became his. In his aloneness, no one would disagree. In his aloneness there was no one but he. This would eventually lead to misery.

As others came and went, always it was the boy and that outside him. No way would let him into the outside. This added to the pain of the distance inside the boy and the beauty of All.

The boy longed to be seen. Known. Loved. To belong to something. All the time.

If only he had known. Could have known. If someone had told him.

part 3. Beauty

His longing grew, with himself.

That same boy found beauty. Actually it was there always. Beauty and facination come hand in hand, though beauty is not always pretty to look at, as facination is not also.

Still, he looked and did wonder why. In the boys life and as he grew he looked at many things. Some he could understand. Other things seared his brain.

At times his facination became obssesive. At others, the Beauty around him was still there. Always.

part 4. Love

The boy grows in size. Physically, sometimes emotionally, but definately in Desire.

He is not without Love. In his Love he was no longer alone. His companions are the animals, the rocks, the trees, the space around him, and all within. You too.

He realized. He saw. The Beauty of All. Gratefully he Loved.

At first only a leaf. The lone leaf. Who will love her if not I, he asks. You so shall said it.

And then, in All things he saw, she showed, with Love, how it can be.

From the seed to the tree, and leaf that falls, that Love abounds in All these things. And to bird from the tree, and the sky from the bird, and to All the bird can see, and to
All this bird is and All the bird does, the boy can see, and be, in Love in All ways.

part 5. The Keys

The keys are:

Love, Trust, Sincerity, Individuality, Character, Faith, Boldness, Desire, Hope, Dreams, Passion, Clarity, Balance, Risk, Will, Belief, Patience, Beauty, Sense, Opposites ...

Blindness reveals Truth = Clarity
Desire becomes Action = Reality

You are the key to All.

The boy dreamed as it can be, and so it was.

part 6. The Spark

As every seed became a tree and every tree from a seed, so the boy became a man. Imperfect. Perfectly.

To how many fractions the squeeze of a pressure which fires the gun which kills the body of a spirit he once contemplated. What sound of life would not speak, questing, he opened the box containing Pandora and the Merry Horsemen.

In the blinding following, a song, by a minstrel:

"Can't Start a Fire Without a Spark" Bruce Springsteen

part 7. The Answer

The truth of the matter is: We are all in this container together, anybody got a light?

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The creation of something new is not accomplished by the intellect but by the play instinct acting from inner necessity. The creative mind plays with the objects it loves.-- Carl Jung

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((((((((((((((((nowhere))))))))))))))

WOW!!!!!!!!!

I need to read this again .........

Jin x

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lol. It's possible you'll enjoy this book, NW: Dancing in the Flames

Music of the Hour:

(should i?)

i had an 'encounter' with a female spirit... not to dwell upon.... for a time i believed i had connected with the Supreme... i was nudged along in time....

i was aware of some experiences i was having as being 'psychotic' and 'schizophrenic... but i was able to function in society and mask what was happening in my mind...

no one ever knew unless i told them....

thanks for the music link s_e ... gonna take me ages to read all this information... this is great!

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NW: i was aware of some experiences i was having as being 'psychotic' and 'schizophrenic... but i was able to function in society and mask what was happening in my mind...

My own definition of psychosis is that of ego collapse. When I say ego, I'm referring here to one's sense of personal identity. When the ego collapses, fragments, cracks, etc. contents from the personal and collective unconsious rush forth and it's this content that accounts for the experience known as psychosis in this culture.

i had an 'encounter' with a female spirit... not to dwell upon.... for a time i believed i had connected with the Supreme... i was nudged along in time....

Perhaps that will have to be a story for another time. In the interim, I enjoyed your seven-chaptered story.

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My own definition of psychosis is that of ego collapse. When I say ego, I'm referring here to one's sense of personal identity. When the ego collapses, fragments, cracks, etc. contents from the personal and collective unconsious rush forth and it's this content that accounts for the experience known as psychosis in this culture.

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that describes it pretty well... it began when i was 15 years old... happy, playful, optimistic teen and within two minths it was a complete collapsing experience... supreme blankness...

i could identify with Humpty Dumpty ... ive been working on it since then...

ive also thought many identified mental illnesses in this culture have characteristics similar to spiritual experiences in current and past cultures worldwide...

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NW: it began when i was 15 years old...

Ahhh. That begs the question then, what happened when you were 15? Naturally, that's not necessarily an answer that has to be shared in a venue such as this, but I wonder if it's a question you've found your own answer to.

Music of the Hour:

yeah.. not sure i have it completely sorted out or that ive remembered everything.. i dont know if i need to... seems ive reconnected with the main foundations of the fall and thats adequate to get where i have... i still have those aha! moments..

i think there were two falls in my case.. the first at 15 wiped away everything i understood up to that date... over years i re-developed myself... tried to be those things i thought i "should" be.....

that collapsed about 30 -35 years old.....

it was this second collapse that i began to study Jungian type theories (though i didnt realize the Jung connection at the time) ...

i cant help but wander into my personal story at times, but i'd like to stay to topic and not wander into my individual experience too much... that can be and has been done elsewhere and isnt my purpose in this discussion..

anyone wanna talk about panantheism or any other subject related to the thread?

thanks everyone... thanks again s_e .....

I just wanted to say thank you (((nowheretorun))), for sharing parts of your life. Although, you say this is not the place to share your individual experiences, I beg to differ. This is your thread, this is your thoughts on things you believe in, trust in. Maybe this is your time and place to tell about you. I know that it takes courage to leap out and tell personal details, but I also know from my own threads how liberating it can be. Reaching back and reasoning out parts of self that got lost or mixed up along the way can help in mapping out the future of understanding what and whom we believe and trust in. Just a thought my friend................... Peace to you.

(((1oxbowgirl)))

i believe this article fits the thread.... a lot of reading again ... i was going to do an excerpt, but the whole article drew me in...

its dawning on me that this is information "I" need for "myself" to read before "I" go on in the journey... i apologise if ive over-stayed my welcome.... and i guess i do need re-assurances with this...

What Is Spiritual Freedom?
By Carey Kinsolving Platinum Quality Author

While taping a video for Kids Talk About God television spots, I asked a kindergarten boy, "What did the signers of the Declaration of Independence declare freedom from?" He looked at me with some uncertainty and said, "Your parents."

When I asked another boy what happened in 1776, he answered confidently, "Christopher Columbus discovered America."

Speaking of spiritual freedom, another child said, "You get to go outside and play and say, 'Yea!'"

I like this definition of spiritual freedom because it makes me recall the sheer joy of going outside to play. In my childhood imagination, a whole world was "outside" waiting to be explored. No one had to teach me how to play or explore. Every child knows this instinctively. It's part of God placing eternity in our hearts.

God wants us to experience the play and exuberance of spiritual freedom. He wants us to come outside, as it were, into the wide spaces of his kingdom, where we can learn the dance of his fellowship.

God is waiting for us to respond to his love so that he can fulfill our hearts' desire for true intimacy. So many people live in a self-imposed slavery because they've been betrayed by selfish lovers. God wants to heal our wounds and bring us to a place of living free in a loving relationship with him.

Some would like to portray spiritual freedom as only a call to give up something, but it's more of a call to gain something greater. Writer C.S. Lewis once compared our spiritual blindness to a small child's fixation with his sandbox. When his parents remove him from the sandbox for a vacation at the beach, he may kick, scream and cry. But all this ceases at the first sight of beach, sand dunes and vast ocean horizons. Suddenly, the sandbox isn't so appealing.

The problem isn't that we're seeking too much pleasure but that we're settling for too little. We're so infatuated with our little mud pies in the sandbox that we can't see the vast oceans and continents God would have us explore.

How God ever got tagged as being against pleasure, I'll never know. For King David wrote, "You will show me the path of life; In your presence is fullness of joy; At your right hand are pleasures forevermore" (Psalm 16:11).

Have you ever noticed the faces of those who try to find life apart from God? The strain of life in the sandbox shows. In our hearts, we know there must be something more, but few have the courage to question prejudices they inherit from culture, friends, family, false religion and tyrants. Of course, our own bad decisions play a role in keeping us confined as well because we tend to justify ourselves rather than admit our guilt.

True freedom requires revolution. Our forefathers declared freedom from English tyranny by signing the Declaration of Independence. Many people have died so we can live free in America.

We declare freedom from the sandbox (lies that promise life but never deliver) when we believe in the Lord Jesus Christ as our savior. Jesus died to pay the penalty for our sin and rose again to break the bonds of death. He wants us to experience the vast oceans of life that flow from him as the source of eternal and abundant life.

Jesus said, "I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly" (John 10:10). Jesus wants to be your liberator and source of life. Will you declare your dependence upon him today?

Point to ponder: Jesus came to set us free and to give us life.

Scripture to remember: "Therefore, if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed" (John 8:36).

Question to consider: Are you living free in Christ or enslaved by your own fears, traditions or passions?

Copyright 2006 Carey Kinsolving

Article Source: http://EzineArticles.com/?expert=Carey_Kinsolving

"Preaching Peace, waging war"

A Hindu perspective.... for balance...

The manipulation of devotion has been the foremost strategy in this context. Religions are profoundly rational. Rationality is at the root of all forms of human freedom, especially our spiritual freedom. Conditioning is the opposite of freedom. Human beings who are religiously conditioned to behave unthinkingly. This is misrepresented as devotion. No attempt is made to distinguish between devotion to God and devotion to one's religious establishment. The greatest danger we can invite on ourselves is to mistake the will of the religious establishment for the will of God. This spiritual illiteracy is packaged as devotion. This is the reason why most people express their religious devotion by hating and hurting people of other faiths and not by loving them. God's will is that we love one another, because we cannot in honesty love God if we do not love each other. The religious elite makes us hate and hurt each other as expressions of our devotion to our religions.

link: http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/m...3000400200.htm

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nowheretorun said:
God's will is that we love one another, because we cannot in honesty love God if we do not love each other.

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I agree with this, but I think we should use a little restraint and remain respectful when showing our love for others. I grew up in Chicago and learned only a fool would embrace a stranger without checking for weapons first. Not only is it dangerous, it's rude. I don't like being embraced by strangers who claim to "love" me - they usually have a hidden agenda. If I choose not to follow their instruction and guidance, these strangers who claim to "love" me tend to viciously attack me and the people I love.

I disagree a bit with the other article. Many egregious sins were committed in order to attain our "freedom," and it continues today. Nothing wrong with playing freely on the beach, but we should be careful not to kick over someone else's sand castle.

I so agree with 1oxbowgirl.... allowing yourself the freedom to transfer the knowledge to the heart. Applying the learning to one's life gives meaning to the new knowledged being gained. I guess that is way much of my contribution here has been to find the lessons. Its one thing to 'know' something.... it's another to apply the knowledge. Sometimes I have to just take a step back to process information until I can bring it into a personal understanding. Until I can relate it to my circumstances, my world view, my journey's cross-road.

Perhaps its the ying yang in practise. The feminine masculine. The cognitive behaviour balance.

As much as I welcome, appreciate, value the articles and information you post here NW what I look for is the application of the knowledge. How the knowledge strengthens your recovery. Changes your life. Impacts your daily thinking. I'm getting that from you in drips and drabs so when I see a full on reflection I'm excited to watch the transferance in action.

I'd encourage you to do both with your thread. Share knowledge and explore the application in your own life. How has that knowledge translated into a new understanding and transfered into new behaviours or beliefs.

Thanks NW for continuing to post. I've not been especially chatty lately but I am reading and absorbing and thinking about its applications. Take good care.......

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KathyM: I agree with this, but I think we should use a little restraint and remain respectful when showing our love for others. I grew up in Chicago and learned only a fool would embrace a stranger without checking for weapons first. Not only is it dangerous, it's rude. I don't like being embraced by strangers who claim to "love" me...

I suspect that for most of us, "love" is a very personal thing. I've had people who were little more than strangers tell me they loved me. 'How can you love me?" I thought at the time, "You hardly even know me!" (And if they did, they might not love me at all.)

I'm not sure if many of us can pull unconditional love for everyone out of our hats or even how many of us would want it from everyone. However, I did come across a term I really liked called "unconditional regard". To me, to have unconditional regard for other people is to extend to them the basic modicums of respect and to acknowledge that they are their own person, with their own life, on their own path. I might not love everyone, but I try to have unconditional regard for those I meet. Mostly, I succeed... but not always.

i like this s_e ...

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To me, to have unconditional regard for other people is to extend to them the basic modicums of respect and to acknowledge that they are their own person, with their own life, on their own path. I might not love everyone, but I try to have unconditional regard for those I meet.

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thats a nice bridge between love and hate..

KathyM.. thanks for emphasizing.. its a paradox.. i envision a pivoting point.. ready to defend/ready to love... it gives me a bit of tension until that choice is made...

times i was in situations that were dangerous... one involved a dull hatchet, a very insane ex-con, alcohol, and a discussion of God Spirit...

the man repeated again and again that he would murder someone...

each time he emphasized a statement, he'd fling the axe at a tree that stood within 10 feet of us all...

the drama escalated as the night progressed..

i was concerned for the others, and myself as the man's temperament rose in violent expression..

if not for the Strength of God that evening, things might've turned out different...

another time, i was at a barrio bar... i was adequately spirited when i arrived and i was the minority white (the only white) ...

we drank and listed to mariachi and played pool and danced and sang.. i couldnt understand their language and they couldnt understand mine..

at closing, the guys all went out except me.. i finished my beer and went out.. the guys had divided into gangs of 5 each and two in the middle were inches apart..

i was commanded to interfere by ???? i was commanded to interfere...

i dont reccommend this, but we all parted that night without a fight...

i stepped into the middle of the ring and as each one made a move towards me or to another in the cirlce i said loudly with a point at them "Love!" ...

this is not a brag... but i was astounded and at the time it all was happening ... it was like i was separated from myself.. like a protection w/no associated fears....

to me, that is God Power...

there is a personal story chocolatelover...

thanks everyone, your input is so imprtant to me... i appreciate your support and kindness..

on a more positive note... ??

i once was in the mountains.. near a Shrine to Jesus... a winding road led the way there... i stopped nearby and looked around.. i FELT the Presence of God, so i went to a tree and carved "God IS Here" ... i'd like to go back now and see the carving...

Great personal stories NW.... walking in the light, in the centre of God's Love is a powerful thing.... your stories demonstrate that to me. ....yes wouldn't that be cool to go back and see your carving.

Take care......

wow chocolatelover ... i feel so little and big at the same time...

part of my recovery has included learning the lessons of humility...

ive found that as ve risen through my pain, as ive studied words and ideas, that i have in fact gained knowledge, been privy to information, been guided and shown remarkable things...

it was so hard for little me to accept that i was rising and being Divinely gifted...

at one point in time, years ago, i wanted recognition... but that has passed...

i no longer dwell on matters of ego... with God Spirit, ive had no need for self-image...

as i am complimented, i need to recognize what that person is giving of themself... to be aware that this person feels power in their heart to give the gift of compliment...

often in life, complments are handed out so numerously that one begins to doubt the veracity...

often, ive noticed compliments are given in exchange for... fill in the blank..

in my heart, in my mind, i created a sense of worthiness... something for me to aspire to... a goal...

when i recieved compliments that didnt come under that umbrella, or didnt seem to speak to what i was reaching for, i would respond negatively and shed the compliment..

i denied myself the opportunity to build a much needed sense of self-esteem at the time by this self defeating behaviour...

ive learned that to give a compliement (now that i feel worthy) is on of the greatest healing gifts available to us all ...

we all know how it feels to recieve a "valid" compliment... we also probably discredit a few valuable compliments in the process of discernment...

maybe we tell ourselves its better this way... better to let the compliment slide than wear it in unworthiness...

vanity is one trait ive done my utmost to avoid...

thank you chocolatelover... i will accept your compliment in all humbleness and for all that its worth...

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NW: as i am complimented, i need to recognize what that person is giving of themself... to be aware that this person feels power in their heart to give the gift of compliment...

I am terrible at receiving compliments. It's an area I need to do some work on but it's also an area that's still muddled with much of what you've touched on NW. Fears of inflation; of taking what is not mine; of becoming vain; of diminished self-worth; awareness that sometimes a compliment comes with a string attached; concern that if I "re-establish" a solid sense of personal identity I'll somehow have diminished some hard-won spiritual lessons.

I really grapple with this one. Badly.

i often feel that ive rushed through a reply and left out something important... im glad for these discussions and having an opportunity to re-address...

s-e... i really get where you're coming from.. before my "fall" i was in 8th grade... a small town, sports were everything...

those of us who didnt make the team were like the girl in Janis Joplins ode to the ugly duckling... we recieved the leftovers...

i didnt feel real anger or resentment, but, i was sad that this is how society is... i was realizing that this is how life is...

there is a faction of people who encourage a "cream of the crop" mentality in society and the realization hit me that i didnt fall in that group..

maybe thats when i began to understand about compassion...

but, whatever my logic was, it ingrained on me the determination to avoid the vanity trap...

i observed the lucky ones who always had the neatest hair, the nicest clothes, who hung out with the beautiful ones and had all the neatest toys and friends... and the way they overly complimented each other on their unbelievable self glory...

i just didnt want to be that way... so i shunned compliment..

as ive grown, for not only the reasons posted above, ive realized another reason why it is beneficial in a full circle way to accept the gift of compliment...

one with "eye" has observed a trait and chosen to bring the trait into vision for others ... by placing this human trait into clearer observation, the many are able to hold and admire its good contribution and honor its place in our society... idealistically, its the trait which is honored, not the person...

we often complain that the news is always bad, that bad things are always taking place in our world.. yet, when given a chance to embrace something good, for ourselves and others, we are likely to turn away... a healing thus denied the many...

in a word, if i fail to honor me, who you've honored, i fail to honor you... that is harmful to all ..

i encourage all here to accept a valid compliment, wear it with a sense of self worth, not vanity, and allow others to aspire...

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concern that if I "re-establish" a solid sense of personal identity I'll somehow have diminished some hard-won spiritual lessons.

I really grapple with this one. Badly.

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Me too.... good topic to raise NW. Seems part of the MO for a lot of mental struggles. Spiritual wrestlings.

Rooting in self-worthiness I think. Sometimes its easier to feel validated as a spiritual being than it is to feel acceptable as a human being. Empowered on one level, dispirited on another. Maintaining a balance becomes a greater challenge.

I've always had this voice inside my head saying "they know nothing". I would discount a complement on the grounds of 'insufficiently informed' and go on thinking lowly of myself and worse... badly of the other person too.

I've learned to accept a complement 'by faith' as a means of truly receiving the gift that it is. That is to accept it without having to agree with it right away. It's like a 3 step program. lol. First, give thanks to God and the person, second, accept the gift gracefully and be thankful some more, and finally consider myself worthy and give God the glory.

For the most part I don't make it past the second step but that's progress. I used to get angry with compliments. Actually rage or beat on myself from battling with a complement. I'd feel worse about myself or my situation. I'd feel more isolated. I'd feel more lonely and invisible, fake. I'd reject a complement as a matter of survival. To avoid a meltdown denying a complement could trigger.

If one can simply accept a compliment even if they can't agree to it but just 'in faith' accept it to be that person's truth or just how they see it... then at least one can avoid the downward spiriling effects of rejecting a complement. That's my latest theory. Stops me from spiriling down from a compliment and sometimes sets me up to receive it whole heartedly. It's one step closer to the goal of receiving all the blessings of a compliment.

After all they are God's way of expressing His divine love for each of us. How the Great Spirit speaks through physical forms. He uses each of us to speak praises and to show us the Love. We know that spiritually yet struggle to process it mentally. Thus more intense spiritual journeys.

Even an insincere, manipulative complement is grounded in some truth or it would fall as a lie immediately and humour or evil would be exposed. Even passive aggressive complements can highlight a true attribute.

NW has shared some wonderful complements to me today and left me feeling kind of giddy. Talking about the process of receiving has allowed me to process the benefit from the gifts of kindness in an extra special way. Thanks again NW.

So there ya go.... another full circle moment brought to us by acts of self worthiness. Cool.

Feeling worthy today...... not 'ego inflated' but rather 'holistically balanced'. Very nice.

I can understand these feelings you speak of, for me personally I often feel embarressed when complemented. It is not that I don't accept the praise or even have a bad view of it; sometimes I do not think it necessary. That is depending on who is giving it and what the reason behind it is.
But I agree with you both in the acceptance part.
Another thing we don't often think of or understand until humbleness comes, is the possibilites that illness is a way for God to show us what we need to see or understand in others. Unless we have been there we can not really understand what someone else is going through, or how to help others.
In my case for the last several years I have had to live without most everything do to lack of money. Yes the experience has been hard on me, but it also taught me how to manage on very little and choose my purchases wisely. And it gave me a real hard reality check on how poor people live. This can be applied to mental health as well. We can help others here because we are going through it ourselves. Gosh....hope that makes sense.

s_e said:
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...concern that if I "re-establish" a solid sense of personal identity I'll somehow have diminished some hard-won spiritual lessons.

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i'm not certain what it would take to lose those hard won spiritual lessons s_e...

i think turning our back is one way... disclaiming and repudiating would be a way...

i think as long as we are growing there will be some fall-back but more move-forward..

i often like to disclam my current understanding of anything... "the more i learn, the more i realise the less i know" ...

any statement in time is just that... a statement that exists and is true, for someone, in that moment, in that time.. and it is always subject to change...

some of the smartest people of the day believed that the Earth was flat....

i dont beleive we lose spiritual growth by accepting a compliment in the correct way... if we allow vanity to bloom, we do however "stop" growing while we entertain ourselves with an inflated sense of self image..

1oxbowgirl said:

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Another thing we don't often think of or understand until humbleness comes, is the possibilites that illness is a way for God to show us what we need to see or understand in others. Unless we have been there we can not really understand what someone else is going through, or how to help others.

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many times i've felt the "illness" take over any rational thinking i could have..

ive often thought that healing could only come when those underlying issues were resolved... treating with "surface relievers" only delayed the inevitable and in my view, the delay made healing harder...

chocolatelover said:

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After all they are God's way of expressing His divine love for each of us. How the Great Spirit speaks through physical forms. He uses each of us to speak praises and to show us the Love.

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i agree with this statement whole-heartedly.. Spirit is wise and mysterious and speaks to us in many ways... it is our challenge as disciples and followers of God to understand...
thanks to all ...