[downsolong]

I joined this site because of an apparent opportunity to cooperatively discuss self help ideas with an 'in residence' 'professional', and other members, hoping to find like minded people, and real help in a world that would seem to hardly care less, but if any conversation or post, can be deleted or locked , in the middle, thereby invalidating and distorting all of the participants, What's the point, and where's the benefit towards reality? Brainwashed compliant cults get along but remain dysfunctional, maimed by society and life, etc. Didn't we all come here looking for considerably more?
-Down

[(JD)]

Learning?

IDK, yes, it's frustrating to find a thread locked, especially for me when it's one of mine!

As with any community, there has to be an adherence to guidelines... so we can all continue to get along?

Use the PMs down, if you need to chat about something you feel might be locked...avoid the frenzy...

[Fuzzybear]

I hear you down....

Invalidation is a huge issue and trigger for many here, including me.

[wisewoman]

Hey Down, Invalidation anywhere is painful and devastating, For all of us.

[Wants2Fly]

Hello Down -- So nice to hear from you again. I left the Forums for more than a year because of this and other issues. It's a large community, and perhaps every members' needs cannot be met all of the time. At those times, the individual member must adapt to the community guidelines and needs??? Just a thought . . . not even sure it makes sense.

yes, it is frustrating as hell for a thread to be locked that contains social discourse where we are learning about one another and the world.........xoxoxo pat

[Perna]

I have found that some posts I thought were locked were so because I'd forgotten to log in? Maybe that's happened to you. I haven't found that many posts truly locked/closed around here unless they were heading in dangerous/hurtful directions or were gargantuan and had been beaten to a pulp so they was hard to follow anymore and needed to be "restarted" fresh. One can always start a fresh thread and work on a problem anew.

[drclay]

People responding to this thread:

Down: I wasn't aware that posts were deleted or blocked. Why might this be done? And how do you know it is done? Is any effort made to identify the blocked post and an explanation given? ...at least to the poster. Clearly there are a few posts that should probably be blocked but I imagine there are "rules" such as threats to harm self or others and maybe psychotic ramblings and...

drclay

[drclay]

Down:

I can tell you why I came here (sorry, this isn't an answer to your concern about posts being deleted or blocked).

My wife went to see the movie, Freedom Writers, last weekend. I thought it was good. It documented the good that can come from freely expressing your feelings (and the causes of those feelings) to people who will listen with concern to your situation and your sorrow. The students were certainly in emotionally frustrating situations--they hated each other; they hated their violent situations; they had a lot of needs that were not being met and they had little hope their dreams would ever come true.

The young, inexperienced teacher, however, asked each student to write about their lives. After some hesitation the frustrations pored out. Each student's hurt or rage or dispair became understandable to their classmates, who had been viewed as an enemy. The writing became the students' therapy, their way of finding their way out of their mess.

They didn't know who Anne Frank was but the teacher suggested they read her book, The Diary of a Young Girl, and they quickly felt for this teenager who wrote about her life and then died in an awful and socially hateful situation. Anne wrote to make sense out of her life. What she wrote touched and helped millions who read her words. The students in Freedom Writers gradually made sense of their lives and found solutions...many used new insight and knowledge to go to college, instead of dropping out of school and joining gangs. (See the article by Anna Quindlen in the latest Newsweek magazine.)

That is what I am hoping you can do by reading and posting on PC. Anna Quindlen says everyday writing about real life is for everyone. She asks if we shouldn't all write a journal or our life story. What a wonderful gift to pass on to people we have loved...and hated...admired ...and lost touch with. I am remembering how many people have told me that they wanted to write their life story. Few have sent me a copy. Why not in the spare moments in the evening or when our heart hurts or when you ache to do something really daring or worthwhile?

Start by going to see the movie.

drclay

[(JD)]

I understand downsolong's complaint, I think. I have trouble understanding the why's of it all sometimes too...especially like right now when another of my threads was DELETED.

There's no place to work through understanding it, thread by thread, because then we are discussing admin issues. The frustration is tremendous. When I sent out what I considered to be supportive words to two unnamed members here, it was sensed as discussing a private issue. Yet, there are at least 3 other threads addressing the same issue, more in depth. I only sent out hugs to both and asking what the members here could do to help more. This post will probably also be deleted or edited, or at the very least I will receive a reprimand from admin in a private message. I too, have asked myself once again, What's the point?

[Wants2Fly]

I understand, honestly I do. I am so glad that some of you -- Skye, Down & others -- are willing to keep pursuing this point. It has been going on ever since I started coming here in 2004; I left a long time because of my struggle with this issue; but I do not have the inner fortitude to do other than go away when it got to me and try not to get too emotionally invested in the site this time. Best wishes for finding some appropriate and meaningful resolution for the issue.

i totally understand.

i don't have as much of myself invested here as i did due to the fact that i never know how my stuff is going to be received. i used to try to keep things so "fair and balanced" and be as supportive as i know how to be. after having my hands slapped one too many times, i've quit worrying about the health of PC and can pretty much take it or leave it. it's not the first thing that i check in the morning.

I believe that there can be a thread that is a completely wild loose cannon, insinuations/subtle jabs and such, and it will stay for days and then one of us can start something that is defined and focused and bam! it's gone. it is an individual interpetation of what is supportive and what isn't. and it seems to me that the line is getting more blurry by the day.

it doesn't take too much for me to lose interest and move on to doing something else........reading the news, etc. i don't like feeling that way, but i do think i need to protect myself first and foremost. i wasn't that way a few months ago. and i have friends that i feel i should help protect. and that makes me feel like we're in junior high again.........i threw my pompoms away a long time ago.

and i'm also sorry for our feelings..all of us...who crossed that blurry line and didn't mean to...didn't know we were doing it...hadn't dreamed of doing it and BAM! the PM comes flying.....

xoxoxo pat

[(JD)]

That's about where I'm at in this too, fayerody, on the self-care aspect.

I post what I think is good generally. I think about what I'm saying, preview it and often self edit before allowing it to stand.

No longer can I constantly worry about whether it's going to be understood or not, or if admin is going to rap my hands over something (the flying PM?) or not. They do what they wish. They know how to get me to leave...and at times have pushed me almost to it. BUT in the interest of self care, I didn't offer to leave, but wait for their decisions.

If I worried about whether or not the post will be understood and appreciated by ALL here, I would be like most of the 13000 members and NOT post at all. I would be too afraid of the reprimands. And reprimands and such really trigger me, esp when it isn't just me thinking it isn't deserved. I have to just do what I can do, the best way I can, and if something happens that crosses the invisible line, there's nothing I can do about it anyway.

And moreso back to the original dispair, there needs to be some way to vent about admin issues that we can't discuss publickly. I have a very tough time with the "no reply" reply to a question in PM.

[Perna]

Sky, I understand your frustration. I use to be an admin on a site and I think it is hard for we interested posters to get a feel for what the admin are up against. I'm interested in myself (surprise! :-) and my issues and problems and the admin have hundreds of posts and people doing their own thing just like you and me. Anything they do, someone isn't going to like.

Were I you, I would think of my complaining in a positive sense, sort of like Dr. Clay's Freedom Writers. I think the admin do care and are interested in hearing from each and every one of us but just don't have the ability to keep the board well balanced and respond to each and every one of us who contacts them. I have almost never, when I've looked at "Who's Online," seen Doc John doing anything other than reading PM's. That's hard work since it probably is not pleasant correspondence he's initiated like you and I can do in PM's? I think when we complain about admin stuff on the boards, it never gets resolved; everyone has a different perspective equally valid. It reminds me of the song from Gigi, "I Remember It Well." http://er.neoxer.com/lyrics/gigi.html

I'm big on Aesop's "The Fox and the Grapes" and "reverse psychology" and figure I offer myself and my words, thoughts, and feelings to the board and if someone doesn't "like" them, that's their loss, I didn't want to talk to them right then, anyway :-)

[downsolong]

to all,
I'm not sure I can make a substantive reply within guidelines now or ever.

[downsolong]

if I did attempt it something along the following lines seem appropriate to me:

Thanks for your replies, the frustrations we share are many and I appreciate your sharing the load of expressing them, as I've become quite suppressed in my ability to here. I'd on occation do more in pms where available but find myself distant from the site due to dissenfranchisment.

Drclay, you are relatively new, in front of the senes anyway, to PC, and perhaps haven't noticed the day to day things that go on regarding its operation. Your referal to the Ann Frank story is very ironic in that like her, the very expression of my thoughts, challenges, goals, and beliefs, would likely result in my being dissappeared from the censored repressive propagandistic environment I find myself in, ie. PC, and 3d.

[(JD)]

Down, I think the effort you are making to try and post acceptably is excellent!!!

The problem with "complaints" in any fashion ANYWHERE is that they are usually seen as dissing some ONE rather than a system that isn't working. If there were more ppl who realize that if there's a problem it just needs to be fixed and not take it as an assault upon any one person or group, that would be wonderful. Unfortunately, it often falls upon one person to be "at fault" when things aren't working quite like they might better work?

Then of course is the situation that Powers that Be (anywhere, any org, site etc) might have a different viewpoint based upon experience or downright stubborness... and you're kicking a dead horse by trying to get things changed.

It's a tough call, imo, whether to keep trying and hope for improvement, or to leave (such as a site like this one.) For me and PC specifically, as long as I see ANY improvements being made, then I hope that/for the ones I'm upset about are on the "list" for future changes.

[Wants2Fly]

Good post, Down.

i agree with Wants.....good post.

[Rhapsody]

My two cents here..........

I personally feel many of the post that often get locked or deleted on here are done so by Admin / Mods due to the fact that another member has come into the conversation (and did not agree with it) and instead of leaving the post be for the one that posted it and for the ones that want to share, enjoy, talk about it - the other member starts to attack or speak negatively toward the post and/ or posters.... and then YES you guess it - ANGRY WORDS fly & RESENTMENT is alive.

Plus.... I have to say that it considered rude by many of the members here of PC when a thread gets locked/deleted and no explanation is given.

WHY NOT.... just ask the member that is stirring up negativity in the forum to leave that particular thread, and then delete the negative post (a post that should NEVER have been placed in a SUPPORT FORUM in the first place) and let the rest of us continue on? for is not our MOTTO: If you cannot SUPPORT & be NICE to another then it would be best for YOU to leave it alone - SAY NOTHING! (more or less in wording)


LoVe,
Rhapsody -

[LMo]

Guys - can I jump in here please?

Everyone here agreed not to discuss administrative issues in the public forums. But, I'll address some of what was written here.

On policy, we are ALWAYS supposed to give an explanation (either in PM or within the thread) when a post is locked. If that doesn't happen, or if you were not the originator of the thread (and therefore not PMed) and want an explanation, please do contact the mod who locked it and ask. I'm not aware of any threads that were merely locked without any explanation, but if a few did indeed squeak by, I apologize. I think, though, that those would be the exception to the rule.

We definitely don't mean to be rude - when we lock a thread, it is always because we see hurtful statements and members posting and replying without taking steps to resolve conflict, but rather escalating arguments. Our intention is to be HELPFUL not controlling. Sometimes human nature may show through as irritation that attempts weren't made to handle conflicts peacefully, but it's because we disappointed that fights emerged.

Believe me -- I was a member before (and after) I was a moderator, so I've seen both sides. There were actions I didn't like, but from the moderator's side, nothing is just arbitrarily locked or removed without hearing several points of view from the other moderators (who truly have various POVs), unless it's something obvious like spam.

I wholeheartedly encourage any member to PM me with their suggestions or ideas. That being said, I (as do most people) respond much better to SUGGESTIONS than to criticism or blanket complaints. Some here who know me can attest that I do have a very open mind and one of the main reasons I agreed to this position is because I want to make PC a better and more equitable place.

Ok, on that note, could you uphold your end of the agreement, and please direct all administrative concerns and suggestions to one of the mods, admins, or DocJohn instead of airing them publicly? Thanks for your cooperation.

[(JD)]

Yes, I think if it's an issue with PC itself, there is a chain of command to work through. From my view this is 1) the moderator who intervened into the post/thread (usually one from the list at the bottom of the thread) 2) one of the lesser administrators Kimmydawn or LMo, and then 3) DocJohn, the webmaster himself.

Personally I have had situations though where the discussion of the situation with the moderation team etc, is limited. I guess, as anywhere/any site, it's then that you have to just go with however they acted.

[LMo]

Thanks _Sky

Can I also say that this job is a LOT harder than I ever anticipated? No matter how fair we try to be when intervening in member conflicts, somebody inevitably feels that they were wronged. It's really hard, because what we really want is peace and understanding, not more upset and frustration.

And along those lines, I welcome your recommendations (via PM)

[downsolong]

So far I give this site failing grades for rational and equitable rules and helpfulness, the software seems good and easy to use but it is squandered by illogical(from my perspective) restrictions on free interchange of thoughts and ideas. I find this very harmful to me and others as well as disappointing.

i understand, downs, and i don't know how to achieve what you want. i'd like more free discourse, but invariably it breaks down.......so, i've sorta given up on finding anything on the net that is civil, legal and invigorating for the mind. either there aren't any boundaries or there are too many....... xoxox pat