[Perna]

Sometimes I think self help means I have to do things myself, become more "independent" and "tough" but then I remember it actually means people working, often in a group like this, to figure out ways to solve problems. The "self" part just means working on one's own problems, which are going to be slightly unique/different from other people's, but that the means of working on them don't have to be that much different. So, one can work on working on one's problems with others and get a friendly, supportive, group thing happening. "Self" doesn't mean working alone and lonely!

[radio_flyer]

Self help means to me to take responsibility for "self".. To read as much as one can on areas that need worked on. Ask questions. Sort out all the info and use the best info that fits and then work on them.. Self help to me also means self empowerment..

[Rhapsody]

Seeking HELP that I can implement myself.... to make an emotional investment in change by considering and working on many alternatives that address my particular problem(s) - hopefully with significant relief or results.


LoVe,
Rhapsody -

[Sabrina]

For me, it means that firstly I need to identify the problem. Accept it, take responsibility for it and finally, to be accountable to it and the efforts that are required from me to help myself.

To me self help is not waiting for my therapist to fix me. its taking the inititive to look for resourses and trying them on my own.

Locating and attending a depression management group because I have depression and need to know how to take care of myself and the depression symptoms.

locating and actively doing workbooks and activity books on taking care of the problems that I have such as The Courage to Heal text and workbook, The PTSD workbook, The Depression Workbook, The Relaxation and Stress Reduction Workbook, Getting Through The Day, Recreating Yourself,

Locating on line resources and actively using the information to help myself for example

http://www.lauradavis.net
http://www.nancyjnapier.com
http://www.healthjourneys.com

And many others that are listed on my blog links including here at psych central.

Self help is bringing the relaxation visualizations that my therapist and I do in therapy sessions home and using them.

Self help is my -
journaling
artwork
building scale models
dairamas
logs and charts
researching at the local library

to me self help is when I wake up in a panic attack and I take care of it by putting on my relaxation music and taking a relaxing bath

Self help for me is riding the city bus and recognizing I am starting to panic and feel floaty and far away so I put on my music and use my grounding techniques of paying attention to how the seat feels, the texture of the road the bus is traveling on,

Basically to me self help is doing something to make myself and my problems better.

[(JD)]

http://www.psychologicalselfhelp.org...1/chap1_2.html Link to Dr Clay's book.

What is psychological self help?

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
I consider self-help to be intentional coping. It is handling your own troublesome situations by exercising deliberate conscious control to improve the outcome of the situation. It is recognizing your own personal weaknesses and working to overcome those faults and improve yourself. It sometimes involves changing others or the environment to improve your own circumstances or feelings, but self-help primarily focuses on changing your own behavior, feelings, skills, cognition (thoughts), or unconscious processes. Self-help is the conscious reasoning part of your "self" changing other aspects of your internal self, your actions, and your situation. It is self-improvement by your self.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Quoted for those who have trouble with links

[drclay]

Wow! What a good group of students! Sky quoted my first paragraph in Chapter 1. Most of you said something along the same lines. The basic idea of self-help, to me, is to intentionally cope with your own problems.

Keep in mind that at that point in the book I wanted to differentiate self-help from psychotherapy and from group therapy...and from taking directions from others, including parents, spouses, children, bosses and other advice-givers. I did not say that getting ideas and help from others is bad. Indeed, I often and strongly recommend getting therapy, going to a group, listening to advice, etc. We need to recognize that help doing self-help comes from many sources--therapists, groups, friends, enemies (who sometimes tell you the truth), and many others, BUT the helpful information from any outside source has to be processed and applied by your own brain. I assume that is intentional. So, to some extent I may want to modify my last sentence in the paragraph Sky quoted. Self-improvement is done by yourself but the ideas you use may come from many others, someone in your family or group, a song, a book, from your own thoughts, and on and on. I hope that makes sense. I don't care much where you get ideas that work for you.

Thanks for sharing your ideas...and listening to mine.

Clay

[JonB]

Sorry, but I'm incurably curious....what do you build scale models of and what do you use to build them? Sounds fascinating to me.

to save typing the whole thing out here is a link to my blog entry that explains one of my scale models and making the dolls to go with it -

http://myself.psychcentral.net/2006/10/10/art-projects/

http://myself.psychcentral.net/2006/...ojects-part-2/

[Bethsway]

self-help to me means that you obtain the information to help yourself...and then practice, practice, practice...

I'm trying to learn how to manage my life better--alll areas: physical (diet & exercise), mental (therapy, books, meds, insight from other people in my support group & PC, basically studying my disease & how to cope with it on a day-to-day basis without it becoming my identity, social (like others mentioned I'd really don't have close friends though I do have 2 people from my support group that I will talk to outside of the group), emotional (need lots of help here--I'm WAY too emotional & reactive to comments others make).

I'm glad to have Dr. Clay's book to work through. Lots to learn there.--Suzy

[alittlehoshime]

Hi Perna

"Self-Help" to me is a way that I can discover myself more, my strength my weaknesses. Of how to strengthen my gifts and even how to work on with my weaknesses. It helps me to understand who I am and gave me "confident" and improve my "self_esteem when I be able to self-help and to help others. becoz we're not meant to be alone. Eventhough I do feel alone at times coz no one be able to relate to me 100% that's where self-help comes in that's where I begin to seek help and find out more about myself , how to deal with it and discover ways to cope " coping skills" to help myself. And when I seek out I felt that am actually not alone. In fact there's more ppl whom gone thru the same like I do and even worst than me. I met someone whom have bpd and mpd accompanied with others disorders I even met someone in hospice a cancer patient whom need to take 30 types of meds. And even those ppl whom suffer in the war , poor , depressed etc etc this really helps me to think wider and be outwardly focus instead of being "self" but I "Self-help" and help me to be content of what I have and to reach out to those whom in need to relate to them and to help them coz this life given by GOD of whatever things I've gone thru is a "gift" is an "Asset" where I can Help GOD's ppl even more. " We are Not meant to be alone". I realized that no matter what whether you like it or not you still need to "self-help" or you go thru the hard way. But do not be fearful coz ur not the only one whom goin thru it alone.

with love
carol

If self help is reflecting on ideas and the like (regardless of where those ideas came from) then I'm wondering if the distinction between self help and psychotherapy / group therapy breaks down. I mean, it would distinguish self help from passively attending and from following directions unthinkingly... But I'm not sure it would distinguish self-help from actively thinking / reflecting on ideas that one has acquired in psychotherapy / group therapy and the like.

Of course... That could be quite a good distinction really. Sometimes therapy is about helping us learn how to help ourselves. And if we can't help ourselves by being able to process / reflect on ideas discussed in therapy then it is unlikely therapy will be of much benefit. Bit of a dilemma really...

Sometimes I think I'm helping myself by accepting myself. Don't know if that counts as 'self help' in the sense you are trying to capture. Acceptance... Isn't about change, however, it isn't about striving towards something, it isn't about improving anything... Though I guess that might be controversial. If something along the lines of mindfulness meditation (or prayer or whatever) counts as self help then while it does involve directing of attention (and is thus intentional) I'm not sure it is change driven. Sometimes self help is about acceptance of me, I think. Acceptance of me just as I am in this present moment...

[Perna]

Hi, Carol.

My therapy definately needed a therapist special_k, LOL. Needed both of us whereas self-help I can do with myself in ways like you mention.

I think mindfulness, meditation, prayer, whatever can be very much self-help, like journaling (that's mostly what I do). I've done some mindfulness, tried meditation. Do you know David Reynold's books?

http://www.todoinstitute.org/constructiveliving.html

[alittlehoshime]

Hi Perna

I didn't mean that all of us are superman and women dont need any professional help when we're sick physically and mentally and to be pdoc and psy ourself. LOL . I do need professional help and am still seeing my pdoc and psy. and taking this unbearable stupid meds yuck hate meds i wonder how someone need to take 30 types of meds or more? Im taking min 4 types ( Lorazepam, luvox, vomit pill & zantac ( gastric ) and max 7 types ( vitamins, supplement, panadol or pain killers for headache. included as stated above. sigh......... eat also die dont eat more die so eat lor

carol

[drclay]

alexandra_k

Your points are thoughtful. I agree that therapy, groups, friends, self-help material can be very similar processes. And, I suppose, one could make too much of the source of ideas about the source of information making a change. Several methods of changing will surely work but some methods may be more confortable to some patients and other methods are preferred by therapists...but until we get video in both directions I think the therapist is better informed about what the patient is thinking, feeling, and doing to change...and getting self-help out of a book has the limitation of telling the book writer what the person with a problem is thinking, feeling, wanting, doing, etc, You make a good point but there are other aspects, e.g. the author can give you lots of information while a quiet therapist and group can give you small amounts of information. All the methods may help some, hopefully.

I like your idea of self-acceptance, although we may go about it in different ways. I talk about my view in Chapter 14 (see the last topic about Determinism). What do you think of that idea? 5000 years Buddhist had an idea something like this but he didn't think in scientific terms.

Thanks for your ideas and comments.

drclay

[desirae]

Of course a group is involved, it's almost impossible to accomplish these mental illnesses we suffer from alone, but the self part signifies that choice, the choice to get the help in the first place, nobody else can provide that sort of help.

[(JD)]

To me, self help means that I educate myself and utilize every available resource to improving myself to the best I can be.

I don't see any problem with utilizing the skills of any expert that I may need, including a psychologist. Even at that, without my mind, the T can't help me. He can't read my mind nor lead me where I need to go unless I'm availing myself of the information. If I just sit there nothing will happen.

[Rapunzel]

The way I look at it, self-help is the only way that we can get better or change, no matter whether what other help we have. I am stuck a lot, and I don't think that I can get unstuck all by myself. At the same time, nobody can do it for me either. I look at self-help books to help me figure out what to do when I need something that I'm not getting from other sources.

To me, I guess self-help is whatever work we do on our own to try to help ourselves. Self-help might be shared with a support group or therapist, and might be self-inspired or based on books or advice or assignments, etc.

I guess I was trying to grasp the distinction between self-help and things that aren't self-help. Of course it would make sense that it is a family resemblance concept rather than a natural kind and there are probably funny borderline cases where we aren't sure whether they are instances of self-help or not... But it can be helpful to get clearer on the concepts sometimes.

I wondered if the distinction you were trying to make was to do with the SOURCE of the ideas, or whether it was to do with what you DO WITH the ideas that you have obtained. Or maybe... It is a combination of both?

I was also wondering whether self-help was thought to be roughly synonomous with self-change for the better or something like that. So I got to thinking about meditation as (somewhat paradoxically) something that is reputed to be about acceptance rather than change and something that is done for the sake of acceptance rather than for the sake of change. If this is the correct characterisation of meditation then it would seem that meditating wouldn't be a form of self-help if self-help was roughly synonomous with self-change.

Of course one could bite the bullet on that point... I'm not sure what my intuitions tell me. Just trying to push understanding that little bit deeper :-)

Maybe your idea on the source of information is whether the information is catered to the person in particular? Individual therapy is catered to the individual, group therapy is catered to the group, reading a self-help book is catered to... People who want to improve themselves? People who want to... Accept themselves? It seems true that the audience is more general. If a therapist wrote a self-help book for a particular client then would the clients reading the book constitute self help?

> I like your idea of self-acceptance, although we may go about it in different ways. I talk about my view in Chapter 14 (see the last topic about Determinism). What do you think of that idea?

Okay. I haven't read that part... I really have to work (working to a deadline...) but I'll read it soonish and let you know :-)

[drclay]

alexandra_k

I agree that it is not entirely clear what self-help is exactly. Yes, it involves both the source of help and the use of those ideas.

You make a distinction between self-change and meditation but it seems to me that meditation also involves changing your view from being upset to being tolerant.

Your thoughtful question about whether the helpful information is directed to one specific person, as in individual therapy, vs. information is given to a group or in a book directed to a lot of readers...that is a good question.
It seems to me that there is an unclear division of responsibility between the source of the helpful knowledge and the effort and cleverness of the self-changer who uses that knowledge.

Thanks for sturring up some ideas.

I'm waiting to get your reaction to Determinism.

drclay

Okay, I found it and had a quick read but I'm really really really really working to a deadline... I want to take the time to read it properly because I'm pretty darned sure that I will have lots to say :-)

I will say that I'm fairly impressed with your book... I had a little look at the sex stuff, in particular (trying to assess whether you were going to be pushing some kind of fundamentalist agenda...) but I thought your thoughts were very sensible ineed. Possibly a little on the conservative side... But well reasoned and articulated and certainly something to think about.

> You make a distinction between self-change and meditation but it seems to me that meditation also involves changing your view from being upset to being tolerant.

Yep. One can deny that acceptance without change is possible. Linehan says... Acceptance *is* change... Don't ya just love a paradox :-) (That view does indeed allow you to avoid the bullet too).

Just one quick thought on determininsm...

It is an empirical matter (to be discovered by science) whether determinism is true of this world or false of this world. That is still up for grabs. It might turn out that quantum indeterminacies are irreducible in which case the behaviour of quantum particles would be probabilistic rather than deterministic. It might also be the case (it would certainly seem to be possible) that if this world is indeed irreducibly indeterministic at the level of quantum particles that that indeterminacy would percolate up to the atomic level... and up further to the macroscopic level.

It is typically accepted that whether determinism or indeterminism is true makes little difference for our notion of free will, however. The story about free will can typically go through much the same.

When I talk about free will I usually talk about determinism too but sooner or later someone brings up quantum indeterminacies... So sometimes it is best to put in a footnote or something like that...

There is actually quite a lot of fairly recent work that has been done on free will:

http://consc.net/online2.html#freewill

(All available online)

> You make a distinction between self-change and meditation but it seems to me that meditation also involves changing your view from being upset to being tolerant.

Though couldn't one just accept feeling upset?

It might change the *quality* of the upset... Or it might change your attitude towards it... Or it might change the quality in virtue of changing the attitude...

Not sure.

(I was meant to read about acceptance rather than determinism I think... Sorry bout that)

<blush>

[trixielou]

i hate to read but if theres any self help book i need to be reading its the Bible. it feeds my spirit & its help straight from God himself. also as far as feeling better mentally & physically exercise helps me so much. it boosts every aspect of day to day life for me. the endorphins adrenaline brain chemicals & meds all work together well. i have more energy feel better about myself think clearer & keeps depression from consuming me. also i cant leave out going to church regularly & talking with different people where i live. weve moved to 5th ave in our town (river street) & i actually talk to people now & they talk to me whereas before we lived on the dead end street where i was just isolated & the only people i saw were the people who lived on that street & they acted like they were better than us. also touching base with my family & getting together for dinner & spending time with them & actually having a hobby for once that ive found in taking care of my flowers outside. my 10 month old likes to ride around in my dads van so sometimes i ride downtown with him & it gives me free time just to relax & enjoy riding around while baby likes it too. ive been wanting to help people in small ways like taking baby to visit elderly neighbors but i havent done this yet. its helps me to make someone else happy by doing something simple. this is where i need the most work cuz im just not much on visiting at all & i have an 82 year old grandma thats a gem that i dont even visit--just rarely. i know she wont always be here but i just let time keep slipping away saying ill go tomorrow or this winter im gonna visit her all the time or next summer im gonna sit on the porch with her in the evenings. i need help bad in this area. when i do make myself visit i force myself & then while im there im just wanting to go back home. i guess self help for me is doing things to make me & my life well rounded. one other thing --listening to my body & taking a nap when baby naps or just laying down & resting instead of runnin around like a chicken with my head cut off trying to get this & that done while shes asleep. im no good to her if i dont take care of me.

[(JD)]

(((hugs))) You're right that all the basic principles (and many heavy duty ones) can be found in the Bible, but they aren't quite so clearly written out as drclay's book is, and don't have as many specifics as to how to take care of your anxiety and steps to counter depressive thoughts.

I'm glad you have made some good moves in your life, and hope you are able to follow the list of priorities like you wish to. Be well!