I fantasize about having an affair.

I don't think giving her an ultimatum about an affair is the right thing to do. I think being honest about the fact that this is braking down your relationship and asking her to make an effort to save that is a reasonable thing to do? If she brought something like that to you then you would try?

I am not sure that she would throw away her relationship away and not work on things?

Good for you

I believe you will do the right thing. I applaud you for telling us about it, I think you should feel good about yourself for exploring the issue rather than going out and having the affair.

I wish you the best of luck I really do....hopefully, the worst way, you can both compromise...how, I don't know...maybe that's something to work out.....

Actually all of that is a very good point

I don't think you should leave something to fester for too long but maybe it is for you to get over and not her? or at least leave for now anyway x

well, you haven't been married to her for 15 years.

and I had no intentions of giving some ultimatum.

Well, I am going to stop now....if you would base a relationship on sex, I have no words for you. SEX IS SO FRICKING OVERRATED! Get over yourself dude and understand sex is one factor to a relationship, not a fricking deal breaker!

Sorry I am mad...no, I am frustrated...sorry but I guess we will have to agree to disagree on that.

Ok, so, again, I wish you the best...and I also wish the best for your wife...I feel for her, I really do...and maybe you should feel for her instead of thinking about what it is YOU WANT. It is not all about you and your sex ego.

A curious thread for me and this is speaking as a guy who doesn't find sex that important in my relationship. As such and I find it hard to speculate how sex dominates the spectrum of a partnership, is there a way of looking at context here?

You've said that she's a good person, that she's the woman you want to raise your children with... that you've been together for 15 years (which denotes a hell of a lot of commitment in this day and age)... is risking all of the positive things you share together worth sampling potential forbidden fruit to fulfil a desire/curiosity (god forbid the person you had an affair with didn't get an orgasm either... there would be an element of irony in that but I'm not trying to demean the question you're asking).

Also, you've mentioned that she is very disciplined... that's a quality that denotes denying oneself of certain pleasures to achieve other goals or keep things at a manageable state... finances, diet.... relationships.

Could the above be something that could be used in this context for yourself?

Don't get me wrong, not judging you (at least I hope non of the above appears that way)... you have your own life and decisions to make and fair play and good luck to which ever path you choose... I guess I just want to draw attention to weighing up all the variables before taking the plunge.

Window shopping is one thing (as well as fantasising)... actually crossing over the bridge to see if the grass is really greener is another hehe.

check out the edit I made to post #24.,, Edit: but, instead of offering to get help... she decided it's not something she can do anything about..

Then DEAL WITH IT! I think its you that has the problem not her.

Don't take me the wrong way....I am only putting stuff out there for you to think about. If I didn't care about your situation I wouldn't bother spending my afternoon discussing it with you

Nope, I haven't and that's why I asked (hence the ?)

But you seemed annoyed with me so I will stop now. I really hope that you can find a resolve with it x

Yeah.. I am pretty frustrated. and perhaps I should stop for now, so I don't take that frustration out on innocent parties.

I do appreciate the admission that this is a frustrating problem. and I have been dealing with it.

and I do appreciate y'all taking the time to discuss it with me.

I do plan on bringing this up with my T tomorrow. He's dealt with her one on one in the past.. so, maybe he can give me some insights I haven't considered before.

What do you mean by atm?

I think that is the best option. I can see myself letting her know that this has gone on long enough.. it's time to deal with this... I'm tired of being patient... I'm tired of dealing with it on my own....

I don't want to have an affair. I don't want to get a divorce... I want my wife to try and enjoy sex instead (or at least try to determine if there is anything she really can do, I want her to check her assumptions, instead of continuing to assert that they are true) of just copping out and saying "there's nothing I can do".. more often would be nice, too.

If she can't see that this is an important issue, then something must change. (and I hate to admit it might be my own attitude that might have to change).

Unfortunately, I have learned from experience, that if I don't initiate sex.. it just isn't going to happen.

see my post #36.

Ok, so the real issue here is with your attitude towards it. YOU want her to enjoy it...well you cant make her enjoy it if she doesn't like it! Is it because you genuinely want her to enjoy it for her pleasure, or is it YOU would benefit more from this?

I am not saying this shouldn't be a problem...I am saying it shouldn't be a problem for selfish reasons. You may just have to accept your wife doesn't enjoy sex. For now, she is not ready, and she may never be ready but that is for her to deal with and for her to worry about...but only if she wants to.

I think it may help pin point WHY you really want her to enjoy it. If it is for her benefit, you have already been told she aint ready....if you come to the conclusion its YOUR problem, then it is time to look deep within and deal with your own issues.

I know it isn't easy and I know this because I am that wife that doesn't enjoy sex...luckily for me, my husband is ok with that as long as I am happy and to be honest, I really am ok with it. The last thing I would need or want is for my husband to put pressure on me to enjoy it...actually, that would make me not like it even more. I would also resent him for being so selfish. Luckily for us, because we can communicate our feelings, we found a compromise that works for us. He admitted he didn't need sex for emotional connection or anything like that, it is purely the act itself that he enjoys...so yeah, I am cool with having sex with him on occasion..but it is under the understanding I do this for him...and sometimes I may not want to at all. I know it isn't the most romantic situation but for us it works. We have built our marriage based on love and trust for each other on stronger foundations than having a fulfilling sex life. We have our needs for intimacy met through other forms of contact and real communication.

I understand this may not work for everyone and I understand sex is more important to some ppl.....if it is a deal breaker for you, you need to look at other ways to feel whatever void sex fills.

So stop hassling her and blaming her and search deep within to find why her enjoying it is important to you...is it for her or is it for you?

^that puts the entire accusation of my ego being the issue into perspective. You obviously identify with my wife. so, you are unable to see any of this from my point of view.

It would be pointless for me to try to persuade you that you're wrong about me. that I have been patient.. that I am a good husband (not perfect, but not totally at fault, either).

You've already made up your mind about me....

You need to realize that you are not my wife.. and I am not your husband....

but, I do thank you for being honest... not everyone would come back and admit what you've admitted.

Although I do indentify with your wife, it doesn't mean I am unable to see your perspective. Please don't think I am attacking you. I have said many things in this thread, some for you and some for your wife. I think you should remain open to all possibilities. I am just someone sitting in my living room, at my laptop giving an opinion based on very little info...it is hard as I wont know all the contributing factors. My simple aim is to make you think. Don't get mad with me....at the end of the day, it really doesn't matter what I think..so don't let it upset you.

I see your point of view...but it just so happens I have a different one that may be worth thinking about because your current point of view is getting you nowhere.

Have you actually even considered how this makes your wife feel?

Your feelings are real. ...they are important and I am sorry you don't feel validated.

So why is this so important to you?
What does her enjoying it mean for you?
Do you satisfy any emotional needs through sex?

The bottom line is that I feel guilty for fantasizing about affairs... I'm also frustrated because I have tried to let my wife know that I wish things were different as far as sex was concerned... but, things haven't changed much..... I have even talked to a T before about this very issue..

So, I'm doing what I can to deal with the situation. I've started this thread.. and I plan on talking to my T about it again. I've never mentioned the desire to have an affair to my T.

those questions are a little too personal for me to actually answer... but, I don't mind considering them.

and yes, you have said some helpful things. I'll reread your posts to be sure I take them to heart.

but, you're still making some assumptions about how I treat my wife and her feelings.

Well you have taken an important step in admitting these feelings and facing them for what they are. Some would of just had the affair.

Don't feel guilty about the fantasy, you obviously enjoy sex and will have this fantasy because your needs are not met. You haven't actually acted on it so so far you have done nothing wrong. So far you are making all the right noises.

Ok, well I hope you find peace with all this. I know it isn't easy. You dont have the power to change your wife...you only have the power to change your thinking. If your wife can't help and you want this to work, you will need to find a way of thinking that makes this ok. Time for a new perspective and belief maybe?

Anyway, this is going to be a journey for you and I honestly whole heartedly admire your honesty and will to make this better.

I am off to bed now. Do take care and I really do hope you and your wife can find a way of making this work.

Don't take everything I have said to heart...please just draw on anything, if anything at all, that resonates with you and helps you learn. Please disregard the rest as mad ramblings

^thank you! I can see that you mean well... and that means a lot to me.

I don't think there is anything wrong with putting importance on the sexual aspect of your relationship at all really. Sex and the intimacy and exclusiveness that comes with it is a reasonably important aspect of a relationship imo. I think if someone didn't feel comfortable with that and wouldn't try and heal that void, I would feel frustrated and hurt.

Some people would see religious faith as an issue that affects their partnership, other's consider financial stability (or loss of) a real issue. If I married someone who then turned T total and didn't like music, I would feel that this was something lacking for me and would try and encourage my partner to have a glass of wine with me and listen to music at certain times, whereas this wouldn't bother another person. Everyone wants a forefilled and compatible relationship and people put importance on different things to feel that.

You seem to have a very happy relationship, other than this, and I am sure you both work hard to be the best for each other and at being good parents too, no doubt. Imo asking your wife to work with you on those things that are lacking for you, is just as important as anything else that affect either one of you. I am not saying try and make her do anything she doesn't want to, but simply to talk to you and think and try and for you both to understand better, is a healthy start. Perhaps agree to some kind of therapy etc.

Can you not fantasise about your wife instead? If you are going to think up an imaginary women that enjoys sex, why not just imagine that person is your wife and fantasise about your sex life with her? x

Hi shakespeare. I've been skimming over people's responses here and there have been some great and thought-provoking things said.

First of all, to give you a bit of context as to where I am coming from, I think it's perfectly fine for sex to be a deal-maker or -breaker. That said, my thinking is that, regardless of your sexual preferences, or your wife's, you seem to be incompatible. For whatever reason. There is no judgement. I'm sure your wife is lovely. You seem to genuinely care for her wellbeing, and the wellbeing of your relationship, not just getting your rocks off. I think that's great.

I also think that if it's important to you, you need to be very frank about it. It's great that you have an otherwise good relationship. But if any part of it bothers you to this extent, then it is worth looking at. And not just glancing at, assigning some responsibility in either direction, and then acting like it never got talked about in the first place. You mentioned that you have sort of noncommittally pursued affairs (or an affair?) in the past. This tells me that you truly are unhappy with the state of things, and that it's been going on for a long time, given the fact that "the last time was 7 years ago".

Have you sat down and talked to your wife? Does she know how much this is bothering you? I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but there is already harm being caused. It is being caused to you, and it is inadvertently being caused to her. I suspect that if you stay in this relationship and nothing changes, you will most likely end up having an affair. And you are most probably correct in assuming that an affair would cause quite a bit of harm. They usually do.

There's nothing wrong with fantasizing about affairs. It's quite common, even in "happy" relationships. But that's not really the issue here. The issue is that you're not getting your needs met. And in order for you to get them met, there needs to be some negotiating, and possibly, at some point, a parting of ways. (I realize that I'm playing the devil's advocate here. I don't think there's a good person and a bad person in this relationship. I think there are two people who have two completely different views on something that is extremely important to one of them. And I think that automatically as soon as it is sex, and the issue is that one person wants more of it, there is a tendency to shame that person and make it about "well if you loved (him/her) you wouldn't make such a big deal out of it," when in fact sex is one of the basic necessities of life, though of course the extent to which it is needed varies from person to person.) And I think that if you can't be open about your needs, and if you and your wife can't have honest (and respectful, and compassionate) discussions about important issues, than that too might be worth looking at.

As an aside, I will say that culturally (in most cultures globally, I will add) men's pleasure is more important than women's. And in fact, in some cultures, it is illegal for women to show skin of any kind, and women face violence for appearing sexy, or to want sex, or appearing immodest in any way. That might give you some context about why a woman might not seem to care about orgasm. I have a sister like that. I don't understand it either (and I'm a woman). I'm not saying this is the precise reason you and your wife are sexually incompatible. I'm just saying that often, when men complain about women not enjoying sex or not really making a priority of it, they rarely take into account that there is so much more riding on sexuality and identity than there is for men.

Also...not saying that you're not making an effort. No assumptions made here. It seems you are making every effort. And I'm not saying your wife's not. It could be very true that valuing orgasm and/or more passionate sex is something that's not even remotely important to her and, regardless of the hows or whys of it, that is her right to make that decision and to have those views. However, both of you have the right to have your needs met (providing they are not causing harm - or, in some cases, more harm than necessary), and so I think it's worth thinking about in this way: if your wife never changes, and your needs are not being met, what are you going to do about it? Because you can't make people change, and you can't make them want to change. And only you can decide that for yourself. Nobody else can make that decision for you.

Best of luck to you.

Addendum: I offer my perspective and experience only. As with anything else, take what is useful and leave the rest...

^Thank you. What I found interesting in some of the other responses is the assumption that I haven't talked to her about it.. or that I haven't brought it up in counseling..... I've done both...

When she talks about it... it is to defend her lack of desire.... I should say a majority of the time, that's what she does... there have been a tantalizingly few times when she seems to want to make an effort.... but, then she just falls back on the standard "there's nothing I can do" and then that's it... end of story. If you were to take what she says at face value.. she already knows that there is no therapy... no book... no friends... no advice... that could even conceivably help her.... Why does she believe this? Because she knows it's true...

And that is what it is like to live with her....lol. She gets these ideas... and that's it.... I have been able to get her to see that she is making assumptions( about other topics).. Perhaps I could try to root out those assumptions.... But, shes does have a right to feel the way she feels ... then again, she harasses me about things... and it is important to me. Except again... she has vilified me over issues in the past with her friends.... It's a crapshoot..

But, I'll talk to my T about it tonight....and let y'all know how it goes.

Wow. I haven't read the whole thread completely through as I was wanting to reply, I will go back though and read them. I'm just giving you a little insight on my experience. I'm in my early 40's and was brought up with the belief that sex is a dirty bad thing good girls don't do. I've had to reprogramme myself that it is ok to have sex. And to be honest sex now in my 40's is the best I've ever experienced. I do have a younger man by 10 years so this may be a factor but we are so close and are best friends as well. Probs not much help but thought I'd share.

sure... I hear you... there is hope. but, as of today, she has no desire to see sex differently.

and I feel resentment because when we were dating... she initiated a lot of sex.... then she stopped.... and instead tells me that this is the way she is now... and she insists there is no solution..