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  #76  
Old Mar 27, 2005, 08:56 PM
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My self-esteem just took a hit here My self-esteem just took a hit here My self-esteem just took a hit here My self-esteem just took a hit here My self-esteem just took a hit here My self-esteem just took a hit here My self-esteem just took a hit here My self-esteem just took a hit here My self-esteem just took a hit here My self-esteem just took a hit here My self-esteem just took a hit here My self-esteem just took a hit here
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My self-esteem just took a hit here
A good day is when the crap hits the fan and I have time to duck.

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  #77  
Old Mar 27, 2005, 08:59 PM
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((((((((((((((((((((((Angela))))))))))))))))))))))

My self-esteem just took a hit here My self-esteem just took a hit here My self-esteem just took a hit here
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  #78  
Old Mar 27, 2005, 09:16 PM
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My self-esteem just took a hit here

Thanks everyone for your feedback. I hope AG feels the same, and that it helps her.

Not to sound like I don't appreciate your encouragement (I really do a lot! My self-esteem just took a hit here), but I don't want to hijack AG's thread or have it be about me My self-esteem just took a hit here

Thanks again,
Angela
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My self-esteem just took a hit here

Soon I'll grow up and I won't even flinch at your name
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  #79  
Old Mar 27, 2005, 09:32 PM
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you didn't hijack the thread, girl.......
  #80  
Old Mar 27, 2005, 09:44 PM
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Would you refresh my memory and tell me what DBT stands for? I've heard of it before but it strains the brain at this moment.
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  #81  
Old Mar 27, 2005, 10:01 PM
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I'm practically speechless!! The only thing I can say is "Brava!! Brava!!" My self-esteem just took a hit here
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Psalm 119:105 Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
  #82  
Old Mar 27, 2005, 10:11 PM
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DBT is dialectical behavioral therapy (i think lol)
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My self-esteem just took a hit here

Soon I'll grow up and I won't even flinch at your name
~Alanis Morissette
  #83  
Old Mar 27, 2005, 11:10 PM
vacantangel vacantangel is offline
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</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
I am just as entitled to my feelings as everybody else is to theirs. I think what I would've prefered to see as responses is validation of my feelings with your opinion that you disagree that it was about me, instead of bypassing that my feelings were ever hurt to begin with. ...
If I have made a mistake and my feelings were validated, then I apologize. Without going back to the beginning of this thread, I don't recall seeing any validation at all and is that not what we all would want?

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Just for the record...when we talked earlier, I believe I said while I disagreed that it was directed at you, I could see how you would be upset by it. (((((AG))))) Very nice replies, btw, eloquently stated.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Thank you. I thought long and hard on how to respond to everybody in what I think is what is being presented here in the self-esteem forum .... STOP, THINK, ACT! I feel I have done that instead of reacting. Thank you for noticing that I'm trying.

I do apologize for the oversight of your acknowledging my feelings along with your stating your opinion. Maybe it would've been more wise for me to go back to the beginning of the thread and reread everything before making that statement. But as you can see by my quote, I did however extend my apology at the same time as my generalization. I will however say again that I'm sorry that I overlooked your validation of my feelings. I'm sorry. I'll try to be more careful the next time, should there be one.
  #84  
Old Mar 27, 2005, 11:19 PM
vacantangel vacantangel is offline
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</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
You're right, that's what happens in CBT. But the thing about CBT that leaves me flat is my personal experience both as a client and a therapist/trainee is the impression that the initial feeling is not validated. That's why I prefer an approach both in therapy and in giving general support that starts with an initial validation of feelings. It's only after I've validated someone's feeling that I would work towards constructing new meaning if appropriate.

I guess I like to start with the idea that a person is acceptable *as they are* AND they can be better. But that's the humanist in me. And it's probably also influenced by my own baggage. It's hard to leave it outside the door all the time, you know or to run away from it. My self-esteem just took a hit here

It likes to jump on your back when you aren't paying attention. Down boy! Down!

My self-esteem just took a hit here

gg

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Thanks for commenting on validation of feelings. I've also made my own comments on the same thing in this thread. It's something I try to always remember to do when I respond to others, partly because of being highly sensitive, I can empathize with their feelings and know how important our feelings are to each of us, whether justified or not. My self-esteem just took a hit here It doesn't mean I am infallable and will possibly forget to do so sometimes but I do make a concentrated effort. My self-esteem just took a hit here
  #85  
Old Mar 27, 2005, 11:30 PM
vacantangel vacantangel is offline
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</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Well, maybe *I* was the one who reacted. I am a little angry about it. There is, in my opinion, NOTHING more maddening than someone putting words into my mouth.

Heh -- all this time I've been pontificating about how 'untriggerable' I am, and I just realized that 'putting words into my mouth' is a sort of trigger for me. My dad, who is one hell of a martyr, does that to me all the time and it is a big red unprotected button that I give him access to push, for some reason.

Anyway, back to you. And really to GG, since I wasn't really annoyed at you in the first place, but she kind of exasperated it (although I think she and I are cool now -- right? I hope? GG?).

I'm not sure what kind of tension or anger in my post you feel is directed at YOU, because there was none. Yes, there was some anger in it (and why wouldn't there be?) but it was in reaction to someone else, not to you.

Sorry if I hurt any feelings here.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

I apologize, you're right. Your post was directed to gg and not to me. I just felt that since you were discussing me that I would like to respond to your comments.

I am also triggered by someone putting words in my mouth. They're most often wrong when they do that so I certainly understand how that is upsetting and triggering for you. We're on the same page.

You said before that I have twisted your words. I didn't get an explanation to how I did that. Am I the one who you feel 'put words in your mouth'? Are we talking about the same thing as when you say that I twisted your words? I really do need further clarification so that I know to what you re referring, otherwise I'm unable to make any 'proper' comment.

BTW, as far as I'm concerned, everything is fine between us too. We're discussing the situation, not how I feel about you personally.
  #86  
Old Mar 27, 2005, 11:32 PM
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Back to you in a minute cuz your response is LONG and very thoughtful and I want to give it the full attention it deserves, so I'd like to finish with the rest of the thread and then come back to you. Hope you don't mind. My self-esteem just took a hit here
  #87  
Old Mar 28, 2005, 12:01 AM
vacantangel vacantangel is offline
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Before going back to Angela's response, I want to comment that I read what each of you said in all your responses, thought about them, walked away for several hours, came back, thought about them again and then 'acted' instead of 'reacted' on them. That, as you know, is a NEW way of posting for me. Something that has been one of the focuses in this forum. I've been complimented with how I responded, both in this thread and by several PMs from others who are watching this thread without participating.

With that all said, I have to say, and this is 'acting' IMHO, I am *really* disappointed that with all the deep thought I have put into approaching the several responses in this thread, that the great majority of them have not even been acknowledged. THAT HURTS!!!!! Not only was no response given to my comments/questions, other than very few, but also no comments to the positive changes in the way that I made my responses. OK, now I feel like I'm actually reverting back to old behaviours and reacting instead of acting. I'm sorry, it REALLY, REALLY HURTS. It appears that it was all for not. I'll bet there would've been a higher chance of getting responses had I reacted instead of stopping, thinking and acting. So much for that new way of responding to things. So dissapointing to me. My self-esteem just took a hit here For those of you who did respond and make comments on how I'm trying, THANK YOU FOR NOTICING AND FOR RESPONDING BACK TO ME!!!

Angela sweetie, I'm too upset right now and you do deserve my fullest attention when I'm calm enough to respond appropriately to your very thoughtful response. I will need some time to walk away from this thread and maybe even the site so that I can regroup, compose myself and concentrate solely on what you had to say instead of my hurt feelings right now. I do sincerely apologize because a response as thoughtful as yours doesn't deserve to be 'ignored'. And that's not what I'm doing. I think by reading your response before that you will completely understand what I'm feeling right now. I'm deeply sorry, please don't take it personally. This is not about you, it's about ME. I guess I needed something in response to what I have said to others and the 'way' in which I felt I did it. I hope you can forgive me. I guarantee you that I will definitely come back when I'm not upset and crying and can give you my full, undivided attention. You deserve no less than that. I hope you understand. My self-esteem just took a hit here
  #88  
Old Mar 28, 2005, 12:43 AM
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Ok, then... so the difference lies between "cognitive" - thinking and "dialectic" - talking. Is that the only difference? Oh! Besides the validation of feelings in DBT and the exclusion of them in CBT... My self-esteem just took a hit here
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Psalm 119:105 Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
  #89  
Old Mar 28, 2005, 12:44 AM
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</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
You said before that I have twisted your words. I didn't get an explanation to how I did that. Am I the one who you feel 'put words in your mouth'? Are we talking about the same thing as when you say that I twisted your words?

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Hi Angelgirl -- thanks for all of your responses -- to my and to the other posts in this thread. I hope it's helpful. You seem to be really reading our replies very carefully, so it's nice to know that it's not falling on deaf ears. I sometimes feel bad, like we're pouncing on you, because strangely enough I don't even always see you as someone with self-esteem issues because when you reply to other people's cries for help, you give such great advice that I always expect that you are super self-confident yourself.

But about the words... I was specifically talking about when you said "you'll probably all applaud if I leave and back out of this thread" (or something along those lines). It wasn't that you were putting words into MY mouth specifically; it just hurt me that we were trying really hard and then you said you wanted to stop participating.

Anyway, you probably are even tired of us focusing on you like this. If so, please let me know and we can talk about something else. I do promise to be here for you for however long I remain on this board (and if the next two years are anything like the last two, then I'll be here a long time!).

Hugs,
LMo
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  #90  
Old Mar 28, 2005, 02:02 AM
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Tomi (okay to call you that? much easier to type) My self-esteem just took a hit here

If I can answer for SC...she may have more to add, but here's a bit from me:

Dialectic refers to two opposing ideas held at the same time. It's about polarities. Marsha Linehan is the author of this model in psychotherapy, and she developed it out of working with people with borderline personality disorder. A lot of the principles; however, can be applied to other clients.

Formal DBT involves a treatment team, with individual and group therapy, between sessions phone contact, and evolves over several stages. I don't have my book at home with me, or I'd give you the big three dialects, but the one I always remember is the stance the therapist takes of unwavering validation versus facilitating change. I believe the others have something to do with combining flexibility with stability, nurturuance with challenging, and focus on capabilities with a focus on limitations and deficits. The goal of a dialectical approach is to move from an "either/or" stance to a "both/and" stance.

DBT is an integration of CBT, eastern philosophies, interpersonal therapies, and crisis management.

Okay, brain hurts for now.

off to bed.

gg
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  #91  
Old Mar 28, 2005, 03:20 AM
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Thanks, GG. I really appreciate the enlightenment. That's not to say I won't have more questions in the future, though, if that's okay with you. My self-esteem just took a hit here
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Psalm 119:105 Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
  #92  
Old Mar 28, 2005, 03:36 AM
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No problem, should we do a new thread for this, though?

and gosh, I can't believe how late it is. I should be My self-esteem just took a hit here

gg
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  #93  
Old Mar 28, 2005, 07:50 AM
vacantangel vacantangel is offline
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</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Okay I'm going to weigh in here, because AngelGirl, I'm a LOT like you. And I'm hoping I can offer you some helpful information from my own experience.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Ok, deep breath, I'm gonna try to address everything you've written. You've really put a lot of thought and effort into your response so I hope my reply gives it at least some sort of justice and that I don't disappoint you with whatever I may say. I'm replying with no pre-conceived thoughts but my reply will be well thought out with giving your words much contemplation. I know in my first reading of it, you hit home a lot and you had my heart racing while going through it. Crossing fingers I get through this ok.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
I kept thinking as I read this thread that a WHOLE lot of energy is being expended to help you, but it's not sinking in for YOU. My self-esteem just took a hit here And that is hard for everyone, probably most of all YOU. My self-esteem just took a hit here I know how that goes, as I have recently been confronted by my therapist about the fact that she gives and gives, and loves and loves, and I take none of it in. She told me that I ask her to rescue me and then I won't let her rescue me. And she told me no matter how much she wants to, she can't love someone into recovery.

It hurts a LOT to be faced with that reality. I'm going to tell you straight up that my response to that new info was more of the same: "Ouch! That hurts! She thinks I'm not trying!" So I defended myself and told her how hard I was trying. "She thinks I don't appreciate her help! She is going to leave me! I am a terrible person! I want to cut myself as punishment." I apologized to her, and she said basically that she wasn't asking me to be sorry, but instead to PUT TO USE the caring that she's giving me.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Ok, I have to admit my T has said very similiar things to me, as well as, I'm my own worst enemy. I've also had the exact same response as you, minus the 'cutting'.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Now AG, chances are that as you have read what I've written, you are already feeling at least a little insecure about yourself, and maybe somewhat defensive. You might be preparing to apologize for "screwing up" before I even say that you have, because you expect that I'm going to illustrate to you that you have. If you are already experiencing a negative emotional reaction, please do your best to calm down, NOT attack yourself, and remember that I have felt the same way and would never criticize you for your sensitivity. Okay hon?

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Oh, you know me so well. My initial response is to think that I'm being attacked, I so often am, I let myself be vulnerable by being so outspoken with what I'm going through or how I'm feeling. With that I do become defensive, my heart starts to race at this point, I become completely overwhelmed, I feel light-headed and I'm just waiting for that one comment that's going to make me 'lose it'. My sensitivity would be in 'high gear' at this point but I'm holding it together and trusting you, not an easy thing for me to do. I don't trust easily. In fact, I rarely trust, I'm usually burned when I do, when I least expect it. But I'm gonna put myself out on a limb here and see how this all unfolds.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
This is the realization that I came to. My pattern is to get triggered and then go into crisis. Okay let me pause to address the conflict between gg and Tomi on this point. Both agree (I think) that you feel the way you feel. So, AG when you and I feel triggered and hurt and self-critical and hopeless, and overwhelmed (you can finish the list no doubt, there is much more to it), we feel the way we feel. Period. As my T says, feelings are not good or bad, they just ARE. And then you deal with them.

THERE is the hard part. And then you deal with them. HOW do you deal with the feelings? It's so hard! I am famous for telling t "It hurts, hurts, hurts." Oh gosh does it hurt. I hear you, girl. This is where the incredibly hard task of putting to use what positive others have given you.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Still with you and 100 percent agreeing.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Your friends at this site have offered you some advice, all very well-meaning. Maybe not all of it is useful in your situation. I understand that. But at least some of their advice will help you if you think very seriously about it AND if you APPLY IT. (Checkpoint here with you, AG. I am not attacking or accusing you for not having applied it. I'm not suggesting that you are bad or have failed or need to apologize. I'm just noticing that this seems to be where you run into troubles, and because I'm working on the same thing, I understand very much. Believe me). Now, if you're like me in this way, too, then you at this point you may be thinking "I TRIED to apply it. I don't know what I did wrong. HOW do I apply it?" Well I'll tell you what I can see here:

-Pat told you that she learned that she has a tendency to think she is the center of everyone's universe. By that, Pat was not trying to say that she is egotistical or self-important. She was illustrating that in her experience, she often thinks that people are more actively thinking about her (good or bad thoughts) than they probably are. The thing is, ALL of us spend a large majority of our time thinking about one thing and one thing only- that would be ourselves. (ae: How do I feel? What do I think? What do others think of me? What do I think of others?, etc). I think Pat's attempt here (and several others was to get to you:[*]Think about the tendency that we ALL have to ask "does this person's comment apply to me? and if so, how?" [*]Realize that there is a good chance that viewing someone's post in this light may influence the way you perceive it[*]Evaluate whether or not it is POSSIBLE that this person was NOT referring to you personally and specifically in their comments.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Still with ya. I know the harder stuff is still to come.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Now, AG, in my personal opinion you may have already done that. I'm not sure, but you have repeatedly told us here that you have reasons to believe it's about you. Since you haven't offered us anything to work with there, we can't directly help you to evaluate that information.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Bingo, we're now at the hard part. Do you know which post I was referring to?

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
This leaves our hands a little tied. I see two possibilities at this point: (1) The person's post is NOT about you, but your own self-perceptions (ae: thinking about yourself whatever negative thing you believe THEY are thinking about you, or thinking that others are trying to attack you passively) OR (2) This person's post is indeed about you.

If (1) is true:
------------------------------------------------------------------Then your focus in dealing with your feelings would begin with analyzing your reaction to this.

What has it triggered? (ae: maybe the feelings of an abused / abandoned / neglected / hurting child?? or maybe feelings from many years past of being criticized / rejected / attacked / misunderstood?)

Only you can identify the true source of the feelings. Sometimes that information is readily available to you because the current situation makes you think about past situations.

Other times, you may have to dig a little deeper. I find it helpful to ask within myself, "What other experiences in my life does this feel similar to? Does this person, in this moment, remind me of someone who has hurt me? If so, who? And how did they hurt me? What am I afraid of right now?" This can take a lot of work. (Stay with me here, I know this is long, but there is more and it's important)

Once you have identified some possible sources of your intense feelings, you STILL ACCEPT that your feelings are your feelings and not "good" or "bad". BUT now that you understand that your feelings are based on more than the present situation. At this point, you work with those feelings. You counter them by stepping one emotional foot OUT of the past and into the present. You step back and then you anchor yourself to the present situation/reality WHILE exploring the feelings of the past. This is NOT easy, but it IS VERY VERY VERY worth learning to do.

My therapist put it very bluntly "Show me the data, Angela". When I do this, I stop and say "Okay, yes I am feeling like I was attacked (or whatever), and I do have a reason for feeling this way. However, in this current situation I am not being attacked." And then you just sort of reason along those lines, using information from your specific situation.

It might sound harsh, but you just have to tell yourself "This not reality-based. What I am feeling is PAST feelings. I am not perceiving the current situation as it really is." And then you may need to talk to someone about the past feelings. Someone who understands and cares and listens.
---------------------------------------------------------------------

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Ok, I've never thought about it from that point of view before but I can see how this can happen and probably has in this particular thread in at least one of my responses.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
If (2) is accurate, and the person WAS referring to you and WAS being negative about you:
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, ouch! Of course you are hurt! My self-esteem just took a hit here It hurts when people say mean things about us. So in this case, dealing with your feelings means that you have to deal with the reality that someone said something bad about you. HOW do you deal with it?

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

In the case of the post I'm referring to as the subject of this thread, I DO believe it is about me and I have valid reasons for that. I really don't understand why nobody else can see those reasons themselves. I think some are blatantly obvious.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
-Well if you're like most of us, you probably think WHY did this person say this? You've got to come up with an explanation to make sense of what is happening to you. We humans are big on this. So you'll think things like: Is it true? What does this mean to me? How do I feel about it? What can I do about it? Well let's walk through those things, shall we?

Is it true?
<font color="red">If it is true: </font> Well it probably hurts mainly because it's something you are already critical with yourself about, right? Maybe this person "pushed your button" by saying something that is true that you don't want to face. If so, what? If there is something about yourself that you don't like, and this person has pointed it out to you, you can either continue to hurt over it, deny it, shove it down, apologize over it but do nothing, or figure out how to fix it.
<font color="red"> If it isn't true: </font> Why does it affect you, what does it mean to you, and what can you do?
-It could be that this negative message, while UNTRUE, is something someone else has said to you before and is really striking a nerve. Or maybe it's something you fear is true about yourself, but really isn't.
-You are likely to feel like you need to defend yourself to the person who made the comment. Well, if they are simply misunderstanding you and are likely to understand if you explain the truth about you, then maybe it's worth talking it out with them. IF they are not like to be convinced, then it probably isn't worth defending yourself to them.
-Turn to *positive* others in your life for feedback. They can tell you "hey, that person is out of line. You're not really like that". When they DO tell you this, try to focus on the fact that the people who are important to you do know the truth about you.
-Realize that even though this person has said something bad about you, it may not be reality-based. Everyone's perceptions are colored by our own experiences. It may be this person's own hang-up. If that's the case, you're not likely to change their opinion and they are not likely to recognize that they have unfairly judged you based on their OWN issue. IF you think this is a generally reasonable person open to feedback, you might approach them about this. But most people are not open enough to handle that. It's probably best (for your own sake) to just write off the rude comment, and if necessary, the person altogether who made the comment. AND- refer back to other *positive* people in your life for reassurance.
-When others DO give you reassurance, internalize it! Believe them! Remember that those kind of people are the kind that are important to you anyway. It really is not worth the effort it takes to hurt and hurt over one person's rude remark. Keep working on discounting what that person said AND reinforcing the TRUTH as others have told it to you, and as you know it within yourself.
-If by chance your *positive* others agree with the statement, you may need to re-evaluate yourself and see if maybe there is some useful constructive feedback for you. That doesnt' justify the original person putting it in a mean or judgmental way. You can still write them off, but you can consider their insults as feedback and figure out how to change what needs to be changed (if anything). This does not mean you owe it to the original person who hurt you. It just means that in spite of the fact that they are being hurtful to you (which is NOT okay), you CAN learn somethings from what they said. The basic idea is to take what is helpful throw out the rest.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

I'm going out on a limb here and assuming that everyone who has read and commented on this thread knows EXACTLY what post I'm referring to. If they do indeed know the exact post I'm referring to, then each and every one of them have made the same comment, that it is NOT about me. I don't recall what any of them have said to 'who' it is about but they are ALL in agreement that it is not about me. I stick my feet firmly in the ground and will not budge. That comment is DEFINITELY about me. I'd like to hear why it is not. Do they even know to 'what' that poster is talking about that they can make that claim? I *really* don't want to bring that post into this thread as that person has not engaged in this thread and I don't even know if that person knows were discussing their post. I don't even know for a fact that we're all even thinking of that post as I have not been specific for privacy of that poster. I regret even saying what forum it was in. I tried to go back and edit it out but I was past the time limit for doing so. I really feel uncomfortable picking apart somebody's post with a bunch of other people on an open forum. I know I would certainly be triggered if I found a group of people were to do that about me. And if that poster were to enter this discussion, I would highly doubt for them to admit it was about me anyway. The poster would want to cover their ***. There was more than one component to that post. There were statements made and opinions given about the statements ane me. The statement was also coupled with an additional comment. So in this particular case, it seems to fit outside the realm of your choices, I think, which are all very good ones and I will be printing out your post for future reference in helping me, with hopes that I won't let my emotions get the best of me and lash out in defence anyway.

So, to try to analyze the post.

1. The first two statements are true. I don't argue that.
2. The first comment that was coupled with one of the forementioned statements is FALSE. This person has no idea what has transpired since the situation to which they are referring.
3. Then we have an opinion. Ok, it's an opinion, it bugs the crap out of me. It's hurtful. It's hurtful because it is putting me down for what I did before on another thread. This person obviously disagreed with my actions. That's not new to me, it was said at the time that I did it.
4. Then we have a snide remark. Totally pisses me off.
5. Next is a comment/opinion. Very hurtful towards me. I interpret a lot into that one sentence alone.
6. The remainder of the post doesn't refer to me at all and I have no problem with it.

Soooooooo, what do I do with that mess? I didn't get any support in this thread about it. What I got was everybody telling me it was not about me. I also got no acknowledgement of my feelings being hurt, that I recall, without looking back at the entire thread. Validation of my feelings is VERY important to me, whether or not you agree with what I'm saying. The two things are independent of each other. There are 2 separate issues to be addressed: my feelings and whether the post was referring to me. Yes, they did support me by saying as you did, to concentrate on the good that is said to me and ignore the bad. But THAT is what I have a hard time doing. I don't know how to ignore something when it hurt my feelings. I did make some progress by not responding to the post and I have no intentions of ever speaking to that person about their post. That is improvement for me. Normally, I would 'react' in a negative way. This time I stopped, thought and then acted, or in this case didn't act at all, except to start this thread in a different forum without being specific to which post I was referring to. Now even though each person who has participated in this thread feels that the post is not about me, they for some reason found no problem in hunting down which particular post it was. My self-esteem just took a hit here

I'd like to hear more input taking into account my comments. Somehow, I feel I am failing miserably with replying your response because I can't seem to fit it into the categories that you've laid out. I can however fit other situations into your guidelines but am having a real problem with doing it with this particular post. Maybe cuz it wasn't said directly to me? I'm not sure. I just feel strongly that I'm disappointing you and everybody/anybody else who may be waiting for my reply to you. I'm REALLY sorry. My self-esteem just took a hit here

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Over time, it is necessary to put the reassurance and caring of those who are supporting you to good use.

Use their positive input as a model or guideline to teach you how to soothe yourself. You can accept their advice and their comforting AND THEN, take it in and learn to repeat their advice and comforting inside your own mind and heart over and over and over again until you are stable on your own.

Nobody will every be perfect at this, but you CAN improve. And you CAN lean on those who care from time to time to remind you how to self-soothe, reason things out, and cope.

I can't emphasize enough how important it is to keep repeating the positive and reality-based messages to yourself again and again and again. That is the key in bringing them in and USING them.

I hope I've said at least one or two helpful things here in this forever-long post. It's probably the only useful post I have made in the past two weeks because I have not had the energy, motivation, or focus to respond to any others. I have put a lot of work into this, so I hope you will put a lot of thought into processing what I have shared.

Best of luck to you,
Angela

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

I have read very very carefully and I think I have learned some things and hopefully it's going to help me in my future reading and posting. One thing that you've pointed out to me is thinking about relating it to something in my past. That never occured to me before but I think I can see how I've done that in this very thread in one of my negative responses that was hurtful. As I already said, I feel like a huge failure in my response. It is obvious how much time, effort and thought you have put into your post. My reply fails astronomically in comparison. My self-esteem just took a hit here That doesn't mean that you failed in getting through to me, I guess what it means is that I don't quite know how to apply it given the post that I am referring to in this thread, and as I said, I feel *extremely* uneasy about talking about somebody else's post on a public forum, whether that person knows about it or not. It's just not a good place to put somebody in and in hindsight, I should never have started this thread and done that to begin with, and for that I'm deeply sorry. I may not like what this person said but I couldn't see beyond my own hurt feelings at the time to think it through well enough to see what impact a thread like this could have. So, I may not have commented to the original poster but this discussing their post like this is probably much, much worse. I know I would not want this done to me. I know as a highly sensitive person how it would make me feel and that's not very good to put it mildly. I feel really bad about whatever impact this thread is having. This is clearly another example of when I should've sat on my hands and not done anything whatsoever. So, this thread in itself makes one of her comments that was previously false, now true but in a slightly different way. My self-esteem just took a hit here I think I post entirely way too much. Not so sure why I'm so talkative on here because I'm really an extremely shy person IRL. SERIOUSLY!!!

Anyway Angela, thank you for spending so much time in composing your extremely thoughtful, insightful and empathatic response to my imfamous thread (or one of my imfamous threads). I really appreciate you joining in on the 'conversation'. Not sure what you should call it really. Again, my apologizes for my reply to you not even coming remotely close to yours in comparison. Do know though that I have read every single word several times SLOWLY, learned from it and I will print this baby out after I hit the submit. I guess that THIS reply might go over one page in length since I quoted your response within it. Let's see what happens. My self-esteem just took a hit here
  #94  
Old Mar 28, 2005, 09:08 AM
vacantangel vacantangel is offline
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</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
You said before that I have twisted your words. I didn't get an explanation to how I did that. Am I the one who you feel 'put words in your mouth'? Are we talking about the same thing as when you say that I twisted your words?

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Hi Angelgirl -- thanks for all of your responses -- to my and to the other posts in this thread. I hope it's helpful. You seem to be really reading our replies very carefully, so it's nice to know that it's not falling on deaf ears.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Thanks for noticing that I *am* reading what everybody is saying, including yours. I have to say that nobody's responses to me have ever fallen on deaf ears but I can see how when I respond negatively, they would come across as such. It becomes more obvious to the receipient of my replies when I STA. I always knew I was reading each word and weighing in on it but I can see now how it didn't appear to others that I was, hence; the frustration that you and others would feel when communicating with me. I can see how this way has some definite benefits.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
I sometimes feel bad, like we're pouncing on you, because strangely enough I don't even always see you as someone with self-esteem issues because when you reply to other people's cries for help, you give such great advice that I always expect that you are super self-confident yourself.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

To be perfectly honest, it feels quite often like I'm being pounced on and I've had others convey that to me in PM that watch in silence. I don't really think that's how it's meant to come across though. I think y'all are just frustrated with me and trying to help me.

Girl, I have absolutely no, zilch, nada, void, nil self-confidence and self-esteem. Even my therapist would agree with that. Thanks for your compliment about giving good advice to others. Another thing my T says is I need to start taking my own advice. I know she's right. I'm such a hard sell but you already know that. She also tells me, I'm my own worst enemy. Also true. Even if I'm really depressed, unless I'm scraping the floor of the abyss, I'm still able to reach out to others and offer them comfort and hopefully give them advice that is hopefully worth something. I'm glad I'm able to do this, I know everybody can't and there are times that I simply can't either, but for the most part I'm able to do it. This is why I get upset, frustrated and angry when somebody calls me self-centered. If I am, then I'm in denial because I don't see myself that way. I always try to look out for how the other person is feeling and put that ahead of myself. I've always done that. Something else my T is on my case about because I'll do that to my own detriment, meaning I'll do what will be better for the other person to not be hurt at the expense of my own emotional health. I went through that a few months ago IRL and the situation almost landed me in the hospital, just trying to avoid saying something to someone that I felt would be hurting them. I can't live with the fact of hurting someone. I avoided telling this girl something for weeks. My mental/emotional health suffered greatly. I completely shutdown. My family got expremely concerned on how it was affecting me and pleaded with me to tell this girl what we all knew was inevitable. It was killing me. That's the lengths I have gone to to avoid hurting someone. That's not to say that I have never hurt anyone because I know I have several times but NEVER on purpose but unfortunately I seem to have a real knack for it regardless. Afterwards, it eats at me and eats at me and eats at me. There are some situations I've yet to let go of how badly in inadvertantly hurt someone and a fair amount of time has passed. I don't think I ever forgive myself. But I think I really digressed, didn't I? Sorry! Not sure how that happened. But to bring us back to what I think we were talking about, yes I do offer comfort and advice but behind it is absolutely no self-esteem or self-confidence. Don't ask me how that works, I have no idea. Also, as I said, I've yet to take my own advice.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
But about the words... I was specifically talking about when you said "you'll probably all applaud if I leave and back out of this thread" (or something along those lines). It wasn't that you were putting words into MY mouth specifically; it just hurt me that we were trying really hard and then you said you wanted to stop participating.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Ok, I remember that response I made and I remember why I made it. To be honest I was hurt, I was really hurt. For several posts before it was a discussion between a few of you, maybe two of you, I really don't remember who and how many, that part wasn't important to me. It was the discussion that I 'reacted' to. This is where I'm going to attempt to apply Angela's guidelines. Now, I haven't printed them out yet so I'm winging it here so bear with my fumbling, errors and ommissions. My self-esteem just took a hit here

What I read was a discussion amongst some of you on how/what was the best way to get through to me. Different methods were evaluated, some obviously by the comments made, previously discussed and discarded priorly somewhere else? That being maybe a thread to get people who liked me to respond so I would see how many people on this site actually do like me or something to that degree, but it had already been felt that lack of replies would be interpreted by me as proof of my feelings that I have very few friends here? That was my interpretation of that part of the discussion. Then followed your response of different things, including therapy to what would most likely be more advisable. Don't remember what you said, the contents of your response weren't specifically what triggered me.

So, here we are, what triggered me? I saw this discussion on what are we going to do with her(me). First thought that comes to my mind is that I'm useless, a bother, an inconvenience, a burden. This is how I feel with my family. That's how I feel they see me. In my family's situation, they can never rely on me for anything because they never know where my cycles are going to have me, will I be depressed, angry, bouncing off the walls? I can never plan anything. I've so often backed out of family things because I was too depressed or too sick from my meds or my moods. It's a 'sore spot' with my family. I don't think they ever trust if I'll join in anything. I got asked on Friday by my mother if I was actually going to show up for Easter dinner with the family on Saturday. So that makes me feel useless, a problem, inconvenient, a burden, the list of negatives is endless. BTW, I did go. So, when reading the conversation here, I was picturing the same thing. Here I am once again. I'm feeling the same way as I do with my family.

Sooooooooo, with going with Angela's guidelines, I was bringing my past into the present. So, I should've thought about what about that discussion was making me feel the way I was. In this case; my family. I then should've taken one foot out of my past and put it in the present. Then taken the other foot and brought it into the present and re-evaluated the discussion here and see what was it really? It was a bunch of friends, who are concerned for me, trying to find a way to help me. I shouldn't have thought of my negative feelings by comparing it to how I feel with my family, which is why I reacted the way I did by saying I was bowing out of the conversation as the all applauded. When I said that, I was removing the problem, ME, from the situation here, so y'all wouldn't have to be burdened, inconvenienced, etc, etc, etc with me. Also, another thing that triggered me about it was that it was a conversation 'about' me between a few people as if *I* was not going to be able to read it. Something like talking about somebody in their presence but ignoring the fact that they're standing right there. Like hello?? I'm here, don't you see me reading this!!! Instead I needed to look at that conversation as for what it truly was, concerned friends trying to help me and responded according to that, which should've been a positive response from me instead of the 'fight or flight' response that you got instead. I'll bet you didn't know there was so much stuff going through my head that was totally unrelated to this thread, did ya? Angela was right.

So, to you and to everyone else in this thread who I've frustrated to the point of almost tearing your hair out, I did say almost My self-esteem just took a hit here I'm sorry. I shouldn't have replied with my 'fight or flight' response that I use a lot, most often 'flight'. I should've thought things through more thoroughly and analyzed what was happening strictly from what was happening here and not bringing into it any other part of my life. I know that response must've compounded the frustration y'all had and you probably just threw your hands up in the air at that point. Well, I can see your still in this thread with me and I thank you for that, I know it's not been easy at all for you. It looks like most have bailed on me. I'm hurt, really hurt about that but I don't blame them I guess. How much crap can you put up with from someone who appears, I did say appears, to not want the help. I wish I had had Angela's guidelines a long time ago. I hope the next time, I can actually put it into action BEFORE I reply by reacting instead of STA.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Anyway, you probably are even tired of us focusing on you like this. If so, please let me know and we can talk about something else. I do promise to be here for you for however long I remain on this board (and if the next two years are anything like the last two, then I'll be here a long time!).

Hugs,
LMo

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

It's ok, it does seem like most of us have the wind cut out of our sails at this point eh? I've noticed since you posted this that you've said you're taking a break. I hope I had no part in your reason for needing one. The coincidence of the timing of the two posts leads me to think I do but I have no evidence of such. You said in your other thread it wasn't about anybody in particular. I wish you would stay but I understand if you need a break. I'm really sorry if my hard head has had any part of your decision. My self-esteem just took a hit here
  #95  
Old Mar 28, 2005, 09:58 AM
SweetCrusader's Avatar
SweetCrusader SweetCrusader is offline
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Member Since: Apr 2004
Location: Utah
Posts: 2,940
AngelGirl,

I didn't post to test you somehow, so you can't pass or fail. I didn't wait on pins and needles to see if your reply was "good enough" for me. It's not for ME. It's for YOU. I also didn't post with great expectations about some wonderful return. I posted to tell you what I'm learning, because I had a feeling it might help you. No strings attached.

Take care,
Angela
__________________
My self-esteem just took a hit here

Soon I'll grow up and I won't even flinch at your name
~Alanis Morissette
  #96  
Old Mar 28, 2005, 10:14 AM
nothemama8's Avatar
nothemama8 nothemama8 is offline
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Posts: 7,878
Forgive me for being one of those who spoke about you here but it was really the only way I could think of to get you to see (actions speak louder than words) that we care, if we don't tell you directly what a good job your doing , we do show it by talking on this thread,Glad you had Easter with your family, your Mom must be doing alot better.
__________________
My self-esteem just took a hit here
A good day is when the crap hits the fan and I have time to duck.
  #97  
Old Mar 28, 2005, 10:14 AM
vacantangel vacantangel is offline
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Member Since: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,005
Angela

And I think it is helping me. I think I've applied your guidelines to my reply to LMo to a previous negative reaction I had in this thread that hurt and frustrated her. I know it will take a lot of work and a lot of practice and I also know that I won't be perfect and I'll make mistakes. The point is that I'm going to try to apply your thoughts BEFORE I post. Thanks again for your wonderful insightful response in this thread. My self-esteem just took a hit here My self-esteem just took a hit here My self-esteem just took a hit here
  #98  
Old Mar 28, 2005, 10:24 AM
vacantangel vacantangel is offline
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Member Since: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,005
</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Forgive me for being one of those who spoke about you here but it was really the only way I could think of to get you to see (actions speak louder than words) that we care, if we don't tell you directly what a good job your doing , we do show it by talking on this thread,Glad you had Easter with your family, your Mom must be doing alot better.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

There is nothing to forgive as far as that discussion that I was talking to LMo about is concerned. I've put it in the proper perspective and I should never have responded to it the way that I did. I'm sorry for my 'fight or flight' response. It was not right for me to do that.

I am however upset about other things that I've talked about in a prior response to that one.

My mom is not doing a lot better. I wish she was. In fact, my sister and I were left at the end of the evening very bewildered and upset. My Easter was extremely stressful and I was very glad to get back home after being brought to tears by my brother and sister-in-law. Why do I even go to family functions when they're there? Maybe the next time I'll bow out on purpose if they're going to be present.
  #99  
Old Mar 28, 2005, 10:29 AM
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nothemama8 nothemama8 is offline
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Hubby and I haven't been to family functions in over 10 yrs just so we don't run into abusive talk, we figure we got to do that for our peace of mind, what little we got left anyway hahaha
Angie
__________________
My self-esteem just took a hit here
A good day is when the crap hits the fan and I have time to duck.
  #100  
Old Mar 28, 2005, 10:34 AM
vacantangel vacantangel is offline
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I wish I could take that stance but my family gets their panties all in a wad when I don't show up. My self-esteem just took a hit here There's never any problem unless my brother and his wife are present. Everybody else is fine. Thankfully, they live a few hours away so they don't attend every family function. My self-esteem just took a hit here
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