Insecure

(Sorry, not sure if this should go here or in Relationships or somewhere else entirely...)

I don't know if I've posted that much about this, but I didn't have much luck with friendships when I was at school. Most of the friends I had either moved away or found other groups. Ok, so it could have been so much worse - I was never bullied or physically hurt - but I was left out of things, and some years (final year of primary school and final year of high school being the main ones) I didn't really have anyone at school I could call a friend at all.

Looking back at things now, I don't know if my poor self-esteem was the cause or result of all this. All I know is that there were plenty of breaks and lunchtimes I spent by myself, and I dreaded teachers saying "get yourselves into groups" for a project because I'd always be the one who couldn't find a group. I didn't rely on anyone to be there for me - if someone said they'd meet me somewhere, I'd always have a back-up plan for if they didn't.

Maybe I wasn't being entirely paranoid - when I was in my second year of high school, the group of friends I was in would quite often leave me out of things. When we went to the shops for lunch, if I was the last one out of class chances were they'd have already left - same thing happened on the way back if I was the last one to pay. When we went skiing with the school, there were five of us and four to a room, so I was the one who had to find other people to share with...and there was also one evening where after I'd asked them if they wanted to have a look round the town we were staying in and they said that one of them wasn't feeling well so they were going to stay put, but when I went out anyway with my room-mates I ran into them in one of the shops and they barely even acknowledged me. Towards the end of that year, I remember being in the queue for lunch behind them, hoping to be able to sit with them, and they literally ran away when I approached. I have no idea why I didn't give up on them sooner...

Anyway, in my final year of high school it had got to the point where I was spending my lunch breaks at home, my morning breaks and free periods in the library, and in class I was sitting by myself at the back...I didn't want to inflict myself on anyone, because I didn't think they wanted me around. I went into therapy, though - not for this reason, but it became the main focus - and I did eventually manage to spend free periods actually talking to people without getting ignored, and started to wonder if my fears about people not wanting me around had all just been in my head all this time.

I've tried so hard not to let myself slip back into my school way of thinking since coming to uni (I'm in second year now), but it's not easy. I made some great friends last year - one of whom is now my flatmate - but every time something happens like they walk to the next lecture with someone else or I can't find them when I leave the lecture theatre I start to get worried (and I still find myself making back-up plans just in case they don't want to spend lunch with me, for example, despite the fact that this has never actually happened). I don't want to get possessive, and they have other friends as well, but I don't want to get left by myself again. I couldn't find them today after I got out of the lecture theatre, and I ended up phoning them asking where they were...a step up from just assuming they'd gone home without me, I guess, but I still wish I hadn't felt the need to do that.

Is there anyway I can convince myself that my friends actually do care about me and aren't just putting up with me?

(Hope this post isn't too disjointed...if anything I've said doesn't make sense, let me know.)

That isolation, and being left out of things, sometimes is a result of bullying (might have been in my case), but I think that it hurts more than actually being physically bullied. I know what you're talking about. I gave up on having friends when I was pretty young, and I don't think I ever really did learn how.

But here is something to try. Each day, make an effort to notice the times when your friends are there for you, and they show that they care. Keep a journal of those things (don't worry about the misses when they might walk with someone else or something - as you said, they have other friends too and that doesn't mean they aren't your friend anymore). Keep working on building your case for believing that your friends really do care about you. Maybe the ones you hung around with when you were younger weren't really good friends, but that says more about them than about you. Things are different now. And don't forget, we care about you here too.

When I read you post, I feel that I have the same exact issue as you have. You're not alone on this one. I remember in elementary school I was bullied...and i really had no idea why people wanted to pick on me so much. I sat beside the smart people and they continuously laughed at me because I wouldn't understand things in class right away. I usually did poorly in math. No one wanted to sit beside me on the bus when we went on fieldtrips...I hated when the teacher asked us to get into groups. My mom had my hair cut really short when i was young...and the boys would make fun of me for looking like a guy. The girls disliked me as well. They thought I was a nerd and didn't want to sit near me. I didn't tell my parents about this because I thought they would laugh at me as well...It was so embarrassing for me. I gave up on having friends and I didn't really see the po9int if they would treat me like this. I had one group of friends...but my parents disliked everything about them...and I'm not really sure why. I didn't become close with them. I just kind of got lost...my parents didn't want me to join a social group and I don't really know why. To this day I've been on my own...my bf is my only friend. For me...friendship should be about accepting the other person for who they are and vice versa...I don't really want to be friends with peopld who are backstabbing...and use me and are only out for themselves...Now I just don't care what people think...i sit in the library by myself and do school work...I do what I want...and if someone likes me for me...then we are good to go and I would gladly be their friend in return. i dont' deserve to be walked all over...and I would not walk all over someone. I respect myself...and if others don't want to respect me that is their problem...because they are missing out...be happy with who you are...and I know it gets lonely at times...but you have excellent qualities and you need to recognise those...so others can learn to appreciate you...and if they don't...move on until someone does. GOod luck...PM me anytimes

Thanks, Rapunzel. Sorry the same thing happened to you.

That's a very good idea! I think I'll give that a go. I really need to start trusting them more...I keep over-analysing things they say (or don't say...we didn't really talk very much today, and it kinda hurt, although it was probably my fault because I don't find conversation easy) or their tone of voice...it makes trying to be sociable really hard work when I'm like that, but it still feels scary to just accept that they might like me, if that makes sense. Some evidence might help.

Aww, you guys are amazing...thanks.

Thanks, myoasis. Good to know I'm not alone...sorry you had such a hard time at school, though. That's great you've got your boyfriend! I have two friends who went to another school who I've known since I was seven years old...it was a huge help the years I had nobody at school to know I had seeing them on Fridays (the only evening we were all free) to look forward to.

Thanks again. Feel free to PM me anytime as well...I don't have time to come on here very much (we get a lot of coursework!), but I'll reply when I can.

Hi Rio, I believe we become who we think we are. If you walk in a room feeling small and worthless people will see this and treat you accordingly. If you walk into a room liking yourself and ready to have a good time people will see this and act accordingly. Our minds are so powerful. Understanding yourself and harnessing this power is awesome.........

I live by this and still sometimes I have my doubts about myself but I deal with it. Since there are so many people in a room, they all have their own issues and all of this stuff smashes together and the outcomes won't always be fluffy. Bottom line for me is I know myself, I like myself and if someone else does not like me, their opinion will not supercede my own.......

Oh yeah, one more thing. When we are involved in a situation we aren't too good at decifering what is going on with other people. I have a list of all of the times that I didn't interpret someone's intensions correctly. I had such a bad track record that I quit doing it. Now I just assume that I have no idea why someone did something unless they explain it to me. This helps a lot in cutting down on useless data from others that interferes with us.

Thanks, Sannah. That makes a lot of sense...it can be really hard to get rid of the "inner voice" that says you're a useless waste of space, though.

Keep working on it! Do you understand how this voice formed?

Thanks. I actually have no idea! My parents have always been supportive of me (with the possible exception of when I was in therapy, but never mind...), I got good marks at school and do well at university...the only thing I can think of is the "friendships" I had at school, but it could have been my low self-esteem that caused the problems in the first place. Might just be part of my personality, I guess, in which case I don't know if there's any fixing it.

I think we have to convince ourselves that we do care about ourselves and aren't just putting up with us :-)

People who are "known", behave a certain way we find attractive and that we can count on, we are attracted to them. However, there's a bit of opposite in there too; we are attracted to people who are like us! So, when you want to be with a person/group, it's because they're being/doing what you like but often, I think we already have some of those things in us. When you asked your "friends" to go out on the town and they said one was sick and you went out with others, you did what "you" wanted. Seeing the others out too should have made you think less of them rather than you!

I had a friend in high school, she's still a friend, 40 years later (we just went to our 40 year reunion this last October) and it's been interesting being friends with her for 40 years! When we were in high school, she would only call me to do something if she "needed" me or had no one else to be with. I still remember she'd call me to drive she and her friends somewhere, not inviting me to wherever it was (she was a jock and often it was to practice/games so wasn't always a good fit) because my stepmother would let me drive and she and her other friends didn't have access to a car. But I remember being "used" in that way when it was convenient to her and I guess I was hurt at the time but didn't "know" it, not having had as much life experience and/or therapy yet :-)

During our reunion in October, she and my one other high school friend got together; they were from out of town so I was kind of the hostess. The other friend is "nice" but kind of boring :-) wasn't much more popular than I was in school. Joan, our user friend (she and Lisa, the other friend, knew each other from childhood; Joan has a twin brother and Lisa is "tall" so when Joan was having trouble with her brother or someone bigger than she was, she'd have Lisa come "beat them up" :-) I realized, is just a more "shallow" person than Lisa and I are. She doesn't do a lot of deep introspection and doesn't really have a clue she uses people. I think there are a lot of people who are like that; charming, fun, whatever but just "surface" people who see simple cause-and-effect. Trouble? Get Lisa, she's bigger. Need a car? Perna has one! Joan doesn't take feelings into account when problem solving?

If I were your age again, I'd tell myself to look at the other people and what their actions tell me about them, rather than looking at how they make me feel. I have learned that I can't learn much about "out there" from looking inside myself? I don't have the experience! I need to get the experience of being with all types of people, those who like me, those who tolerate me, those who don't want anything to do with me and experience those people from "their" point of view. If I look at their actions, how they treat Person X, Person Y, Me, Person Z, and how Person Z acts toward them and whether that's similar or different from what Person X does. . . I need to look at the situation and its "parts" dispassionately!

You're going to be an engineer :-) look at it like you would an engineering problem and extend your timeframe too. Don't look at a single episode, but look at it over time; does Person Y ever approach you? When? What's going on? Where's Person Z at that time. . . Yes, you will be hurt if you want Person X, or Y, or Z or Group XYZ to include you and they don't but I think if you shift your focus when something happens that makes you wonder from the personal to the dynamic, it might ease a bit of the pain and you might learn something about them (and make an independent decision that they're not worth YOUR time)?

Put yourself first. . . not in the sense of how you feel but in what you are doing and why. You have your own goals, stay with them and work on them always and you'll hurt less from what others do. If you want to learn to be more outgoing, for example, you have to practice that with all sorts of people but it's you and your practice that should matter, not the response. When you are waming up before a concert, you're not paying attention to the other instruments that are warming up too; they're doing their warmup, you're doing yours. Practice your being friendly and more outgoing and don't worry about the other people; you know how cliquey those percussion people are :-)

Self esteem is manipulated by the environment. I think that it starts with the parents. If it gets low from that then friends and others can jump on it too. Our parents can do little things that send the message that we aren't important like not having time for us...........

Thanks, Perna, and thanks for telling me about your friend as well. I think I may have met a few "Joan"s.

That's a good idea! I know I'm guilty of just considering single episodes...generally goes something along the lines of he sat beside me in the last lecture - he likes me...he didn't reply to my last text - he doesn't like me...he saved a seat for me at lunch - he likes me... etc. It's quite tiring thinking like that.