[comicgeek007]

Today I had the intake interview for the dbt group at my college. This is also the second day in a row that someone from student counseling services had tried to push meds on me. I just feel like the risks severely outweigh the benefits for me and I'm joining the dbt group to be able to deal with things on my own and not have to rely on meds.

Also, is this even remotely true??

"People with bipolar disorder need to be medicated because the more episodes you have, the worse they'll get and the more meds that simply won't work for you."

I got told this today by a scs psychologist.

No one in real life understands why I'm frustrated she said that.

I won't say this is true or not true because I don't know, but I have read this before. Taking medication is something you have to make up your own mind about but do the research first. There is one theory called kindling that states that the more often you have episodes, the fewer triggers are needed to set the episodes off. They can begin to go off on their own with out any triggers. Its still a theory though as far as I know. I don't know about the meds not working though, I haven't read that. Only in cases where people take medications then go off them a lot then go on them again repeatedly, I've read that they can lose their effectiveness.

I don't know if you have the time, but if you go to barnes and nobles and look in their psychology book dept, there are quite a few books on bipolar, you could look up in different books just the parts about the medications that you are concerned about. I've read every book in the store and bought most of them.

Can I ask what risks you are concerned about? I think the DBT group will be a definite plus and I am SOOO glad you are getting some help. (((BIGHUGS))) You are in my thoughts!

[Victoria'smom]

I've heard of

"People with bipolar disorder need to be medicated because the more episodes you have, the worse they'll get and the more meds that simply won't work for you."

I don't know whether I believe it or not. You need to politely tell them you will not be on medication and you do not want to discuss it again. It's your choice not to use medication. However they can choose not to work with you. I would suggest explaining to the head of the counseling center your wishes and working directly with the head of the counseling center. The reason I suggest working with the head is because s/he has the final say in your treatment.

[Eliza Jane]

I have heard of that theory, but my understanding is that they are still working to figure out if it is accurate or not.

I have such a hard time knowing how to respond to your posts! On one hand, I think people should decide whether they want to be on meds or not. On the other, I cannot tell you how much I wish I could go back in time to take meds in college. I would have had such a much easier time if I could have been on abilify. I didn't start meds until a few years after I graduated, though. I often wonder if I would have fulfilled my dream of med school if I didn't have those terrible bouts of depression.

Sorry if that isn't helpful. I really just had to get it out.

Good luck. I hope DBT is helpful.

EJ

[~Christina]

I understand your concerns about psych meds I really do ... But I think you have to look at the short term.. You pop on and off your meds all the time.. that is certainly not helpful for you right now.. your up and down, alot.

Maybe an option is to go ahead for now and take meds to even you out then you will be able to learn real coping skills and learn how to actually apply them when you need them.

There are many members here that are med free and doing really well ... But they have all worked there ***'s off to load up a toolbox with every coping skill they can find and are still adding more any chance they can. Most have made huge changes in there life , diet , exercise, all kinds of things .

I think its all about making informed decisions about what you need now.

I hope you are able to find workable solutions to your unique issues.

Good luck.

[Trippin2.0]

Originally Posted by emomom

There is one theory called kindling that states that the more often you have episodes, the fewer triggers are needed to set the episodes off. They can begin to go off on their own with out any triggers. Its still a theory though as far as I know.

Bipolar is a triggerless beast, having anything exacerbate / trigger an episode just complicates things, its not how bp "works" though, so I don't buy into this at all.

CG Its the AP's you want nothing to do with, why not go on a MS and AD until your toolbox is filled up as per Christina's suggestion? It doesn't have to be longterm, you can set a goal/time limit and work toward that. No sense in shooting yourself in the foot before you even learn to walk.

[polesapart]

I've read this sort of thing in journals, although saying point blank that meds won't work for you in the future is a complete fallacy. Many people don't get diagnosed and treated until later in life and are able to benefit from medication. However there is a push for early intervention, because research suggests the earlier treatment is started the more successful it is and a higher chance of someone being off meds in the long term. Just food for thought.

I think most psychs are going to want to discuss medication with someone who has bipolar. But a good psych wouldn't "push", more discuss the pros/cons, what you want from treatment (therapy included), concerns about meds etc. If someone told me I HAD to take medication, that would be the end of the conversation and I probably wouldn't be on meds right now.

[venusss]

Bleh, kindling schmidling. Often meds do trigger episode or stop working or whatever... and you still have episodes on meds. Does it mean if you have med induced episode you just kindled a bit?

Anyways, if I think you can try to discuss that no APs, but willing to try other options. I personally think that APs outside of real bad psychosis are like prescribing for chemos for flu...

and eh, they can't make you take anything. Why not explain that you wanna try something else and try the DBT course and see?

[A Red Panda]

like others have said, easily refuse the APs.

From what I've seen of you since I joined here CG though is this: 1) you do not consistently take your meds, so you have thus never actually benefited from them not because they don't work... but because you don't follow the instructions for them! 2) you have a LOT of severe ups and downs and 3) You don't have very many coping skills that you are proficient with yet (from what I've seen, read, and remembered anyway!).

And now you are in a very new, stressful, and exciting environment where you have no one that is really aware of how your moods go and thus no one to help monitor where you are.

It's obviously your choice as to what you do, and I understand not wanting to be on meds. But it sounds like it could be a total disaster and you've already gotten yourself into the situation where you COULD get kicked out of your fraternity and where you're already risking failing a course., less than a month since classes started right?

Either way - good luck!! I hope that the councelling services will benefit you and will respect your decision.

[comicgeek007]

Now I'm torn.

Personally, I feel trapped. I don’t want to feel as if my brain is broken and science needs to fix it. I don’t like that science doesn’t even know for sure what most of these potent meds do - how they work and long term effects. I don’t want to look at the nine pills (because psych doc went up a lot in dosage) I’m supposed to be taking and thinking ‘this is my life.’ I'm also terrified of side effects I've had (very rapid weight gain, being too stoned to function, etc) and potentially will have on different medication. I looked at the side effects for mood stabilizers and a lot of them sound scary! I mean, getting regular blood tests to make sure your organs aren't failing? I'm only 18. How long would my life expectancy be (not to mention what **** my quality of life would be) if my organs started out of the blue failing because of something that's supposed to be helping me? And that's not just lithium, docs have been know to order blood tests for ANY MS for the same reasons.

But at the same time, part of me is terrified that I will fail out of college if I have another really bad episode. And another part feels obligated since real life people (who admittedly don’t understand my situation) either outright say I should take medication, or make me feel like a terrible person for NOT wanting to take them. They disguise an ultimatum as free will by saying it’s ultimately my decision and then pulling the ‘don’t you love me?’ ‘why won’t you listen to me and do as I suggest?’ when I say I’m sticking to my decision.

Now I'm torn, upset, and don't know what I should do. I'm trying to get an appointment with someone to at least have an in depth discussion on the risks/benefits of meds before I make my final decision.

[comicgeek007]

I'm actually more open than I thought I'd be to meds, but this is a really tough decision. It probably shouldn't be but it is. It's been 90%+ of my thoughts these past two days and I still can't come to a conclusion. Maybe the consult I have tomorrow will clear things up. I don't mean to be so melodramatic, I just wish someone could definitively tell me which option is right for me so I can tell the part of me that didn't win to just shut up.

[comicgeek007]

Student Counseling Services denied me services because my mental issues are 'too severe'. They just sent me back to my old T and pdoc. First doesn't want to deal with my bipolar, second ALWAYS increases my meds like they're candy. They are literally my only options now because I go to college in the middle of f***-***** nowhere, Mississippi.

[wildflowerchild25]

I'm sorry CG. Student services are unfortunately not equipped to deal with real problems sometimes. Can you still do the DBT or did they deny that? You can Ty to do DBT on your own through the DBT website and through the DBT workbook for bipolar. I found DBT to be confusing on my own though. I didn't really get it till I went to the group. But it's worth a shot.

I guess try to move forward wih your old T if you can. You don't have to go to your pdoc unless the T requires it.

As for your question about whether you should take meds, unfortunately only you can answer that. You have to decide if they're right for you, although I agree with the others - you've never given meds a fair trial from what I've seen. If you want to stay away from the APs, maybe your pdoc will be amenable to that? Seems like they treat abilify as the new wonder drug but it didn't do anything for me except keep me down in a depression. Now I'm finally on a mood stabilizer and doing much better. I'm also on an AP but I needed that to bring me out of psychosis and now I don't want to take a chance of going off of it. I'll take the brain shrinkage!

[comicgeek007]

Originally Posted by wildflowerchild25

I'm sorry CG. Student services are unfortunately not equipped to deal with real problems sometimes. Can you still do the DBT or did they deny that? You can Ty to do DBT on your own through the DBT website and through the DBT workbook for bipolar. I found DBT to be confusing on my own though. I didn't really get it till I went to the group. But it's worth a shot.

I guess try to move forward wih your old T if you can. You don't have to go to your pdoc unless the T requires it.

As for your question about whether you should take meds, unfortunately only you can answer that. You have to decide if they're right for you, although I agree with the others - you've never given meds a fair trial from what I've seen. If you want to stay away from the APs, maybe your pdoc will be amenable to that? Seems like they treat abilify as the new wonder drug but it didn't do anything for me except keep me down in a depression. Now I'm finally on a mood stabilizer and doing much better. I'm also on an AP but I needed that to bring me out of psychosis and now I don't want to take a chance of going off of it. I'll take the brain shrinkage!

Can't go to DBT group because they require you to be in individual therapy there.

It's a state-run practice, so they require you to go to the pdoc within the practice. Which is stupid. I want someone who will actually have a good reason for upping my doses of stuff rather than just doing it because the sky is blue. That's a big problem I'm having with my meds. I seriously don't know if the meds/dosages are necessary or why I'm even on that specific one because he never takes the time to discuss it with me.

And to clear things up, I was on my first set of meds dutifully for MONTHS before I had a pdoc change it even though they weren't working, and I've been on everything at one point or another long enough to see effects (except for Seroquel because of the ridiculous rapid weight gain and perhaps Lexapro because I'm afraid to be on only an AD since I was quitting my AP). I also know that I was probably the most stable I've ever been while on the combo of Lexapro and Abilify, but I still don't know if I was just between episodes - regardless, brain atrophy is a deal-breaker side effect for me and since you can't see it happening like a rash, etc, I wasn't about to blindly continue it.

[A Red Panda]

CG: I don't think annnnny of us want to be on meds.

I've resisted it for over a decade, while knowing that I should have been on them. But I've been really, really, lucky in the combination of having good coping skills to keep me functional... and that my ups are mild enough to not cause any real impairment in my life.

I only went on the meds because I recognize that I'm at a point in my life where they would be more useful to me. My plan is to take them, once I'm reconsiled with my life, I will go back off them. But I wouldn't go off them if I was in a situation where I knew things weren't going to go smoothly.

I'm really, really, sorry to hear that they are denying you ALL services. I would really push (even if that means getting something from your T or pdoc) to get you into the DBT bit, because that is FOR disorders like ours!

How were you deemed as being too severe?

[comicgeek007]

Originally Posted by A Red Panda

CG: I don't think annnnny of us want to be on meds.

I've resisted it for over a decade, while knowing that I should have been on them. But I've been really, really, lucky in the combination of having good coping skills to keep me functional... and that my ups are mild enough to not cause any real impairment in my life.

I only went on the meds because I recognize that I'm at a point in my life where they would be more useful to me. My plan is to take them, once I'm reconsiled with my life, I will go back off them. But I wouldn't go off them if I was in a situation where I knew things weren't going to go smoothly.

I'm really, really, sorry to hear that they are denying you ALL services. I would really push (even if that means getting something from your T or pdoc) to get you into the DBT bit, because that is FOR disorders like ours!

How were you deemed as being too severe?

See, I tried to join the group BECAUSE I know my coping skills kinda suck. I was trying to do good things for myself. Just texted my T about it. Maybe she'll respond. I feel like no one in my area actually wants to take the time out of their day to help me, though. All the people who want to help are out of the state and/or on the internet.

They did an interview and then that T contacted the director of the practice and the director threw me out like hot shyte.

[Victoria'smom]

as for the medicine does, you have to advocate for yourself. You have to ask why. you may end up pissing off your psychiatrist but you need to make the decisions about what medications you allow yourself to take because it's not going to help if you're not going to take the medicine. if you can I would suggest looking into taking viibryd as it has both AP qualities but is an SSRI and is weight neutral but it costs a lot. If you really don't want medicine tell the pdoc that. Maybe you can come to an agreement. Ask questions there is a printable form that ill link later. It's med questions to ask and if you choose not to take that medicine you'll have exactly why. The meds you choose you can look at it to see why you choose it.

[comicgeek007]

I'll ask questions, boy will I ask ALL the questions, but I have literally no insurance. And no one ever explained to me why they think I need an AP, anyway.

[ultramar]

Originally Posted by comicgeek007

See, I tried to join the group BECAUSE I know my coping skills kinda suck. I was trying to do good things for myself. Just texted my T about it. Maybe she'll respond. I feel like no one in my area actually wants to take the time out of their day to help me, though. All the people who want to help are out of the state and/or on the internet.

They did an interview and then that T contacted the director of the practice and the director threw me out like hot shyte.

What exactly did this therapist say (the one who would get you into DBT?) You say they 'don't want to deal with the bipolar' but can you share more specifically what the therapist said? You seem to have been fairly stable lately, so I'm confused. What precisely is the problem?

[comicgeek007]

They aren't equipped to handle cases like mine because apparently I'd need more therapy than they're willing to give me. They only want to deal with things like anxiety or depression.

For clarification, I meant my old T doesn't seem to want to deal with bipolar, but the same can be said for the SCS as well.

[Victoria'smom]

When you deal with pdoc take this just incase s/he convinces you to try again. I went in against medication but I had a pdoc that convinced me to try again. what are you going to do about a T? can you look at the local hospital or county clinic?

[comicgeek007]

Thanks MM! I will use this.

had been seeing a county T and pdoc. Maybe what I do is switch T's (if I can't get things straightened out with my old one) within the practice. Have to get permission to see an alternative pdoc.

I am about to see someone now to discuss meds in a consult sort of way. I'm actually near tears because I gained so much weight between the summer and now. WTF??? I've barely been eating!!

[Trippin2.0]

Originally Posted by comicgeek007

I'm actually near tears because I gained so much weight between the summer and now. WTF??? I've barely been eating!!

Our bodies store fat when it goes into "starvation mode". That is why all healthy eating info tells us to eat regular meals, whether it be a diet or not, because starving can backfire.

[A Red Panda]

What Trippin' said.

Starving yourself ultimately leads your body into starvation mode. Which means that as soon as you eat anything, you aren't getting any of the nutrition from it because your body is turning it all into fat to store it.

[comicgeek007]

Okay, I really worded that wrong.

The thing is, I wasn't starving myself, I just wasn't overeating at all. And I've been exercising.

Unfortunately, the appointment I had today was just an appointment to get a referral for a consultation. Which is stupid. So nothing productive got done today.