question for sufferers

Wow, that's a great post. what you said here:
"I always thought the same thing he was holding me back and there were these great things I was suppose to be doing in my life and needed to go out and party and be with other men.."
I have to believe this is a factor in her thinking right now. The absurd thing is that I encouraged her every single day to live a full life. Yoga, running, time with friends (who I didn't really know and turned out being ******, *factor), spending time with her family, she was as free as anyone could possibly be inside a relationship. I never told her to not do something healthy or productive..
I'm not sure of your history and it's none of my business but on her end of things, addictions play a big role too. It's definitely a scrambled mess that the clearest mind would struggle to sort out. I can not picture her having the ability to dig herself out alone. Unfortunately, my gut tells me this will go to the bottom, she will be desperate and try to manipulate things as far as she can. a short term toxic relationship or two, back at her mothers, possibly in default on her car etc. who knows..
What would not surprise me is her waiting til the very very last desperate moment to pull my heart strings and manipulate me into supporting her again. She is capable of running a few months tops before there is big consequences.
At this point, I think I'll just wait it out, contacting her nets me nothing it seems. The more this goes on the more I'm setting myself up to hear how she's "in love" with someone else as well..
I spent the day at the fair yesterday with my daughter who loved her very much. My little girl was asking about her the entire time, you could tell we both wished she was there with us. My little girl got a pizza afterwards. She was eating it with a knife and fork like my ex always did. I asked her why she was doing that and she said "because I'm ******, and I eat like her".We both miss her dearly.. The entire dynamic with my daughter is out of whack with this loss, she was an integral part of her life and my relationship to my daughter as well. My daughter was able to see me happy for the first time since divorce.
Again, I'm just venting/rambling.
Everyone who has posted here has been so helpful and I have huge respect for all of you and your own personal struggles.

I think you need to think very, very hard about what kind of relationship is best for you and your daughter with someone who are repeatedly describing as manipulative. If it's something you both can handle long-term that's ok, but manipulative people (bipolar does not make us manipulative typically btw, maybe at some points in mania but manipulation is not a hallmark of this disorder (although it does go better with borderline personality disorder which I wonder if you are describing because there can be a push/pull patterns to relationships with BPD involved and it can be hard to distinguish from bipolar sometimes) are hard to deal with and can hurt you over time. If this is psychosis it's not really manipulation because she'd have to be capable of thinking out how to manipulate and I don't think that's possible. Maybe while manic in a more euphoric way than I know about.

becareful... i cant say anything more....

I didn't really think that manipulation was a BP trait. It comes with the addiction side of her. I am aware of BPD and I also know that they can be comormid. That said, this is the only time she has ever pushed away over year and a half span. She was always trying to pull me closer, until we finally couldn't get any closer.
I also realize now that this took some time to happen.. It built up slowly after med changes, warmer weather, and the stresses of us getting a new place and the "reality" of a future together forever. No doubt she was abusing caffeine, her eating disorder came into play slowly, and I am quite sure she was seeking self medication through her work place.

I really would just like to see her get to a clear thinking place so I could ask her if she actually believes there is a happiness or better life beyond what we shared. I'd bet the farm on the answer being no. I honestly wouldn't doubt if she would answer no today either, I just think she might find the chaos exciting.

i was manipulated by a psychopath, she just couldnt understand the pain she was causing me until one day where everything came falling down, the truth came out and now im in a darker place than ever

i thought we'd have a future together too, but with people that have problems... its a bumpy road, especially involving manipulation...

i know how you must be feeling and im sorry, i wish there was some sweet words i could use to soothe the pain
all i know is that life goes on even if we are waiting for the impossible
dont waste your life waiting for the impossible my friend

One can truly believe what their mind is telling them while in a manic state. I honestly for a time thought that people were out to get me. People were purposely trying to sabotage my life. Mania and other symptoms associated, such as psychosis can really fuel a bad side in a person.

Thanks for the feedback on my last post.

Puts it into perspective what you were saying about the waitressing job and men flirting with her ... I think that her case goes beyond the normal definition of "flirting" ... hers was taken to an extreme.

Glad that you had a "talkative" and "open" relationship. Yes, I'm not disputing that men hit on her, likely - an no I'm not stereotyping her job as a waitress. When I was studying at University I did some waitressing here and there and men did hit on me, and not because I was intentionally flirting with them or even flirting with them in the first place. But a waitress walking around all grumpy and sulking (okay just pushing this to the other extreme) won't last all that long because it is a high demand occupation for a lot of students and a person can be replaced in that kind of environment in a blink of an eye.

Okay her personal experience did push past the extreme though and hers was somewhat of a very much so "in your face" kind of factor that neither of you two I guess could have ignored if it reached the extreme that they wanted to "get with her". Yes that would piss me off if I were in her shoes.

One of my best friends through high school has since been diagnosed with bipolar, BPD and some other things I think. And the things I'm about to describe were her decisions, not because of any diagnosis but the diagnoses helped her cause the problems. It took a long time to come to terms with knowing that she wasn't accidentally causing the constant turmoil--the drunk phone calls late at night during finals while I was in college, the pregnancy scares combined with the "I'll never drink again", the "my parents are molesting my daughter" which ended with me having to file a police report that I now doubt was anything but a manipulation. One summer she was supposedly doing AA and I agreed to babysit so she could go to a meeting. She didn't get home until really late and I was getting worried. Very late at night I got a call that she'd been drinking druk and had an accident and please did I know where her kids where. When I said I had them the woman cried; the car seats weren't attached and had flown out of the car and they'd been looking for bodies. So that was the summer of no driving for her and I somehow was just sympathetic to what happened. Then there was "my husband is abusing me" so from 2 states away I helped her find and get into a shelter. She didn't take her kids which confused me right up until 2 days later when she disappeared from the shelter. Then I had police calling me and her parents yelling at me for "hiding her" when I knew nothing. She was gone for about 8 months and then just popped back up and started calling me at 3 AM. Repeatedly. I ended the relationship the first time then but it took about 4 more tries to finally be free of that. Years of my life spent trying to get out of this. And even after that she pretty much stalked me on facebook until I had to report her, even contacting my friends who she sort of knew and telling them to tell me to get hold of her. She "needed me". I decided she was fine without me especialy since I was a mess myself at the time. Instead as soon as I had facebook I contacted her ex-husband and apologized for believing her so many times.

I have both encouraged and discouraged and I just want you to know that is because I've seen different sides of this issue and it can seem like there are endless sides. And that's without even knowing her side as Hooligan has pointed out.

It gets really tricky and painful and you will benefit from knowing where you will go and where you will stop in advance. To me for example the addiction would need treatment. But that's just because addiction has hurt me.

For me it was the lack of respect, the things like 3 AM phone calls where I was supposed to be coherent and the bringing me in and out of her children's lives but being offended when I said I didn't want them to know I was talking to her ecause I had no desire to hurt them yet again. They're pretty much grown-up now but when they were small I was in and out as she was in and out and that was bad. It was always needing to be there for her and never the opposite.

You just have to know where your limits are. I've had friends unable to remain friends with me because I reached their limit. One woman had just been through the suicide of a loved one and even though at the time I was doing relatively well she just felt she couldn't handle a friendship where suicide could be part of the mix. That one hurt but I understand; she was already in pain. Another never told me, just was done. I have a suspicion it wasn't about me but a family member of mine. That one confused me but it's life.

You are just in a tricky place.

Thank you all Beyondtherainbow, Hooligan, ChaoticInsanity, and elevatedsoul.
All your responses are great. From what I am gathering here and combining my knowledge of her, I think she is stuffing her feelings deep and trying to bury them with addictions. No doubt we both have huge voids now.
I'm really struggling tonight with my desire to reach out again (co-dependency possibly). I know it will go south fast if I do. I just want her to know I am here, we miss her and I understand that she is confused and struggling too. That's my hearts desire, and it comes off as a bit needy perhaps. My logical mind says keep chugging forward one day at a time. Anyone taking a shot in the dark as to whether I will hear from her?
Beyondtherainbow, that is a gut wrenching story... I feel horribly you were put through that. I guess it's the price of being nice. nothing worse than having your good will abused.

Agreed. ^ We as bipolar people have to own up to our actions. It is not ok to treat people poorly when manic or depressed.

That is where therapy helps us.

I think you've summed this up quite succinctly right here goodfather

I think she is stuffing her feelings deep and trying to bury them with addictions. No doubt we both have huge voids now.

Well, this made me do some searching for my high school friend. Turns out she was living in the same town as me until a few months ago (that could be BAD because if she knows where I live she'll show up) and she's having health issues again. Unclear what they are and how serious because her own account can't be believed. That's really sad but true.

sorry for triggering you to dredge up something so painful

Not your fault. And not even that painful now (although running into her would be painful so I'm glad she appears to have moved). Just someone who is so toxic and that is so sad. I think she has a completely messed up life from decisions made at 20 and that's really sad. What is scary is how easily I can be pulled back into that. I want so badly to post to her facebook (from my fake, never checked account) that I see she's about to have surgery and I'll pray for her but that would open a can of worms. So I'll pray and feel sorry that she seems to be staying in a nursing home right now at age 40 and she won't know it. I'm proud of her kids; they both have overcome a rough start and seem to be doing great.

well, I reached out tonight. Emailed and asked her to talk. She said when, I said now please call me. She said why? I said to talk with no fighting.... that was it.. no more responses. I sent another follow up saying I don't understand how after our history and everything we went through together etc that she can't even talk to me... still no response.. We will see.. If she calls tmmw it just means she had someone there, if not, she must still be confused.

Doesn't seem like she trusts your motives?

Yes, she does sound confused I think you're right.

Remember she's not in a good headspace right now so she's still likely to do / say things that will confuse or even continue to upset you.

It's important that you put your mental health first.

i dont know.. She emailed me back at 12:30 am stating she wants to call but she cant. I assume new boyfriend presence.. At any rate, I replied asked her again if she is happy, if she is in love again, I explained I couldnt understand why she wouldn't have taken more time to mend before moving on etc. I also told her my phone was on if she wants to call.. I haven't gotten a response from that yet. I sent it at 6:00 am. I assume she might be at work and maybe I will hear something from her this afternoon or evening, my heart is in my throat

I also think if I could talk to her or better yet see her in person, I might be able to reach her to the point where she would atleast start to look at things differently. She always told me I had a great ability to make her see things in different perspective, even when she was sick when we met.. Its a fleeting hope because of her anger but the emails last night showed no sign of anger

Also, anyone please please add input with ideas on how to approach if this does become a reality. I know I need to be calm and a good listener. How much of what she says can I debate or call into question. I just want to plant the seed that she is not ok right now

That's a really hard one. I don't think anyone likes to hear "you are not doing well" and many of us have heard it in ways that were painful, more than once. You might want to read the thread about one thing never to say to someone who is bipolar for some suggestions.

If it were me I sometimes am ready to hear that someone is worried about me and that I seem to be struggling (and I appreciate it being worded much like that) and sometimes I'm not. I am sure I give cues about how I feel and how open I am to that comment but I don't know what they are unless I am actually saying that I am not doing well in which case it's a good time to jump in with the I'm concerned thing. However I rarely will admit I'm not ok until someone else notices something, usually my therapist.

I become very paranoid about people's reactions and if they are going to try to scoop me up and dump me in a hospital. Which is why I don't like anyone saying something without taking cues from me or being too aggressive in what they say.

I think gaining her trust first is the priority. After that you can push a little more if you need to.

great answer, thank you.. I will be very non confrontational. Not sure its gonna happen, the time of day I would expect it is right around now and I havent heard a peep.
Can I explain how I feel? I.E: I feel like maybe she is confused and pushing feelings down and burying them with unhealthy things?
I was also considering stating that I am here for her now, if she wants help, I'm all in... But, if she waits until she's a blubbering mess with no where else to turn, I might question her motives and not be there.. is that fair or?

IT all depends what you feel like you can honestly handle. I think that ideally people would be able to help whenever the person with bipolar is ready but that's not realistic. I may be tough for her to accept help right now, even if she kind of wants it. I've been in that place before. In fact just weeks ago I argued with every point my therapist made trying to help me until he finally said I wasn't going to agree with anything and we should come back to that topic next time. He was right. I wanted help but I was too manic to deal with rational answers.

Others may vary. That's just my experience. But you really can't push someone into getting help and doing so may make them reject help forever.

I realize its a fine line, thank you. that combined with addictions and I'm sure an exciting new "love" interest has my hopes pretty low. Not sure why I keep trying.. She gave me hope when she said she wanted to call but couldnt.. hard to decipher. She never replied today at all.

I guess at this point I'd have to say are you sure that you this is something you want to remain involved in?

yes, we spoke today on the phone.. She is very angry, confused, hurting and lost. She definitely does not trust me as that came out several times. Progress was made, she got overwhelmed and hung up. That's fine, I'll back off and see what comes. There was discussion about life goals etc. We had decided we were not going to have children in the relationship... Apparently she changed her mind, never told me and it festered... I explained I had no idea, etc.. Told her I was open to the possibility.
Somehow she felt so betrayed by my reaction to her texting another guy.. It's all very irrational but somehow it's all my fault.. I accepted the blame for what I could, didn't argue and let her release some emotions. She definitely loves me, misses me, hates me, wants to have sex with me, never wants to talk to me again, and wants nothing to do with me..
So there you have it