Psychosis question

I am sorta confused and I want to develop some coping mechanisms or at least know when to contact my pdoc.

I am feeling fine now, but if you're severely psychotic, is it possible to know you're actually severely psychotic? Or would you be so confused that you wouldn't know? I want to know if it's possible to retain any insight, and if so, how would you do it? I look back at times and say to myself, "wow, how come I didn't notice?"

Both are possible.

Good to know! How do you ground yourself when you're severely psychotic? You know, so that you don't do anything reckless.

I am just afraid that one day I may end up at the hospital, or worse... in jail because I did something reckless.

What I have leanred through all this is to try to view myself throught the eyes of others. So, when I start thinking there are cameras in my walls and spies next door and stuff like that, I try to remember that everyone who knows me tells me this is how I get when I am psychotic. Has happened 10 billion times. Now, for me, it may still be real, it pretty much is. But, I am also at the same time able to remind myself that everyone who knows me is telling me I am symptomatic and I can use that to keep myself safe. Ask for help, tell pdoc, tell support people, etc. Also, maybe stay home, maybe not shop or make big decisions, etc.

Early on in my illness, before I had this information, I would get caught up in my false beliefs and noone could talk me down. Now, i allow others who care about me and know me well to help me. Even though I may still believe I hvea special powers, say, I still now, today, am more than willing to accept help from those who care about me. That is the difference for me today. If that makes any sense at all.

Oh wow. Thanks for your fast reply.

I can't remember who it was, but I know there was someone here who was arrested during a psychotic episode and ended up in jail for a while. That's what worries me the most because my psychosis gets worse and worse as time goes on.

Lots of good ideas though! Who normally talks you down? Wife, kids, etc.? Or just medical professionals? I do not have much support IRL, so it is hard for me. I guess that's why I am asking.

Yes, that was me. No prior record, not even a speeding ticket. Somewhat respected doctor. They threw the book at me. For a car crash. Tried to put me in the penitentiary for 7 years. Even thouhg they knew I was totally psychotic. They didn't care. State hospital instead for 5. Super, super tragic.

So, be careful. Be really careful. I have a few IRL friends and tiny, tiny family circle. Basically, an ex who I am close with who has been through everything and knows all my stuff. But really, I rely heavily on PC now, as you guys really know me best day to day right now. And my pdoc, of course. He lets me text him, so, if it gets scary, I can reach him in like 5 minutes. He always gets right back wtih me. Very caring guy.

Sending you support and love, blue. I really care about you. You have helped me a lot. Just speak up when you think you might be symptomatic, that is the best advice anyone ever gave me. That way, people know and can support and help you. If it is every day, it is every day. It's not ao contest, just tell your truth, whatever that is.

Hugs!!

When I went into true psychosis I had no insight and ended up in the hospital. It took weeks to come out of. I was in the hospital for 3 weeks I think and lost my job. It was very scary. The only thing that got me out of it was high doses of antipsychotics.

I try not to let it get that far....I mean first time I had no idea I had psychosis and was recklessly driving, walking around downtown on my lunch despite it being 20 min on the L to get there or carrying a swan neck lamp I thought was my shaman staff to heal people.

These days if I get a hint of psychosis I tell my circle...especially the pros, I want another set of eyes. I don’t trust me. Anything weird gets a reality check....like did you see that traffic light go from blinking to steady red...or not? Did you hear or smell that?

Mostly I have no symptoms, I’m one of the lucky ones meds work 100% for, but say I see a visual of the grim reaper one night, someone has to know. I also have a rule...it’s ok only if there is no chance of hurting me or anyone else and it’s not my job to police anyone. I indulge a bit into the psychosis by practicing shamanism from time to time but I only follow books and guides...no making up my own rules. As long as you have a bit of consensus reality you’re safe.

Probably all sounds crazy but it works for me to release what could be psychosis but in a controlled mechanism.

I ask myself is this my normal behavior. If I add a BUT... I have to run it by someone. Usually if I'm calming myself down and talking myself out of it then it's irrational.

Oh MY!
Seriously, do you mind that I find your post hysterical?
You've done a fantastic job describing any shaman I have ever known!!!
The books and the guides, as in spirit guides? I mean spirit guides makes it more interesting than , you know, paperback or .pdf style guides.

Do you take part in the ayahuasca , too?

I'll admit I do sometimes enjoy the shamanic perspective offered by Alberto Villoldo.

I hope you'd meant to be humorous!
I hope I'm not offending you!

Sorry WC, while I was being humorous about carrying my lamp staff down the street (although it truly happened). I am serious about doing the thing that your psychosis focuses on in a safe manner with rules. It seems to release some repressed need whether you even believe in it or not. So 90% of days I don’t believe in shamanism but there are still 10% of the days where it could be true. Thing is doing it actually lessens it’s power over you. It doesn’t make me a shaman, it makes me realize there are limits to even the perceived power of shamans. People aren’t necessarily magically cured just by me walking down the street with my staff, like I had hoped. Even in the shaman communities you can only heal someone if they request it and there is a procedure. It is it’s own reality check in a way. But if you keep it repressed it’s like your brain doesn’t know that or ever figure it out. ie sometimes you need to act out delusions to figure out their truth.

This is definitely a weird psychosis thing and I probably didn’t explain it clearly enough. That’s why my rule is as long as it doesn’t hurt anyone, it’s ok.

Acting out delusions can be extremely dangerous. Following command hallucinations, say. Ihave done this many times. Super dangerous.

That said, I have always believed and I still believe to this very day that I have special powers that other pople do not possess. I am not ashamed of it. i am proud of it.

Huh. That is interesting. I always thought that delusions were fixed beliefs that were so strong that you couldn't convince someone otherwise. At least, that is what the DSM 5 says. Are you sure they're delusions though?

Delusion - Wikipedia

Hello Again,

I am deeply sorry if I hurt you in any way.
Yes, your line about the healing staff is humorous.

I was relating to your post and laughing at myself, my past history with shamanic practitioners.

I believe I know that experience of which you write or one very similar. You have done a wonderful job at describing that "place," that "experience," a kind of fine line... well, perhaps a blurred line.

I'm not poking fun at you/your experience or at shaman or shamanic beliefs, etc. Honestly. I have spent time with several shamanic practitioners I have deep respect for them and for several other teachers/mentors.

There's this place, this space in which they/we/I often spend time and even more so when fully engaged in a "healing," for example. I'll skip the actual terminology.

I have found the more I would hang-out in that space, the more difficult it was to again fully "ground." I had observed this in my friends, as well.

There are many more "students" than ever devote themselves to full-time shamanic practice. Most of us believe and don't believe. We see and we are blind. These students express a deep need to participate in routines/rituals and enjoy taking a week or a weekend to allow for the expression of this part of themselves . For the majority, dabbling a little in their interest satisfies them intermittently.

I can have some real difficulties around this, as the experiences, the space you describe can come over me rather intensely and things can become quite confusing.

Your account of your experiences remind me of some of my experiences, which have intensified in certain types of practices.

You've eloquently described your experiences. That's something I have trouble with.

In all honesty, in thinking back now,I was finding almost everything quite humorous!

Again, my humblest apologies if I had hurt you in any way. I would never do so intentionally. I enjoy having you around PC.

How do you know if you're psychotic? I'm not sure if I have been or not. There are things I believe that no one else seems to, but those beliefs don't come and go. They're always there, and just become more central sometimes. I hear voices and see things I know aren't real because they disappear. Lots of other strange things happen from time to time. But I'm not sure any of that counts as psychotic.

For me 'psychosis' refers to something different (maybe mistakenly). There's an insanity that's infinitely terrifying which threatens to swallow me. It's always there, lingering in the subconscious, and this me speaking now will die if that insanity gets me. Not only this me, but this body also. There is so much fear it will stop my heart.

I don't think it ever got me, but sometimes I realize I don't know where I am or how I got there, so I can't say for sure. If what people call psychosis is the same as the insanity that stalks me I feel really sorry for people who get thrown right into it. I'd kill myself rather than face it full on.

Is that how it is for others?

I take a slightly different route, but I am with you on this in concept. It is my belief that the delusions we are drawn to, and especially the ones that we hold onto tightly or experience repetitively, are significant in some way.

When mine come up, I recognize them as delusions, but I do not just dismiss them. I try to see what they might mean symbolically. My subconscious is holding onto the belief, so I approach working with it in the language of the subconscious. I think your method of working with the belief to consciously 'know' it in a reality based setting is a beautiful idea. It can give the experience meaning and purpose and then perhaps one day unlock the 'why' which is what we need to discover.

Blue, about the definition of delusion... Take a point in time approach to it. What I hold as a delusion for a period of time can later be identified as a false belief. It is more of a state of consciousness thing to me. In one state, I 100% without any shred of doubt held these beliefs. They were truly fixed. Later, I moved into a more combined reality state and saw myself through other lenses and realized those beliefs were false.

In the same way I am both a mother and someone's child, there are versions of me who know delusions are such and a part of me that still holds onto them. The goal is to make sure the delusion believer stays in the back seat and does not take the wheel.

Yeah, sorry for not being clear, but that is what I mean about delusions -- that you cannot identify a delusion when you're currently severely psychotic because a delusion is a fixed belief that doesn't budge no matter what kind of evidence you are given. You can definitely identify them later on when you're not severely psychotic, though, and not completely immersed in your own "delusional world," if you will. I know I can later on, when not immersed in my delusional world, recognize some of the times I felt there were cameras watching me and someone was out to kill me. But in the badly psychotic moment, nope. Can not identify the delusion.

My feeling is that if you are floridly psychotic -and this may also go with mania without psychosis- you do not have the kind of self-awareness needed to know that you are psychotic (or perhaps manic). Its pull is just too strong, its shadow over that part of the brain too complete.

I've been psychotic twice. Each time I did not recognize it, and if anyone told me I was ill, I would argue against it, against what others told me I actually was *not* seeing, was *not hearing*, was *not* experiencing.

It sounds like you constantly have psychotic features, but it is not dominant. Those things that happen that are not 'pure insanity', but they could be a sign that you have things you need to sort out.

I remember feeling very strongly that I was letting go and something very scary was taking over when I became completely psychotic. Smaller non-concerning things had been happening for a while and I wrote them off as no big deal and kept going.

When it took over, I dissociated and blacked out for a lot of it. It was very much as is something took over. One of my brothers believes to this day I was possessed. A darkness that is incredibly powerful and just impossible to describe took over. It certainly felt completely insane because it was the opposite of everything I choose to be in my normal conscious state.

But... As bad as it was, and it was the darkest scariest thing I've ever experienced and the same could be said by those who witnessed it, I did not die. I was waiting for me on the other side. And... I'm a more balanced version of me because I am learning to listen to and understand what previously just looked like insanity.

This is only my experience, but I have learned that the dark thing that took over was in fact me. I was possessed by the recesses of my own mind, heart, and spirit. The parts of me that had been abused and were angry as Hell came out. The feelings I had denied and shoved down came out. The things I had so vehemently judged as 'not me' came out and showed me I am connected to them no matter how much I distance myself from others through judgment. The twisted beliefs I created through hours of focusing on the wrong things came out of me. They yelled. They raged. They were finally seen.

I explained to my therapist it was like being awake and trapped in the worst nightmare ever. All of it came from me even though it made no sense on the surface. It all represents a piece of me that I threw away instead of accepting and working with. It represented the worst of my fears. So now, pieces of the experience come back to me bit by bit. The memories are usually triggered by dreams. I feel cold and fearful and I want to run and stuff them away, but I stand and face it. I welcome it in and try to figure out what it means. I give it the space it deserves and the love, acceptance, and compassion it needs and then I let it go.

I am no longer deeply afraid of my shadow. I know how powerful it is and I fully respect it. It has been the single most valuable transformative tool in my life thus far. My only advice is to pay attention to the little things when they come up. If you are afraid of it, try not to run. If you are disgusted by it, work with your judgment. If you're embarassed by it, process your shame.

Makes sense. I think for some you can essentially train yourself to bring your awareness of the delusion with you. Maybe you leave yourself a clue in your own handwriting. Maybe you have a list of your main delusions on your phone. Maybe you repeat mantras to combat the delusions so it is hardwired in your brain that they are false. Something like 'When my friends tell me it is a delusion, I listen'. Or 'Cameras in the walls means I'm not well'.

Maybe in those cases you still have the delusion but you carry a tiny shred of 'knowingness' alongside it and seek help for yourself.

Edited to add... My husband and I have a codeword for psychosis. If he says it, our plan is to contact my doctor and therapist immediately. Our hope with the codeword is it won't be him fighting me on the delusions because my brain will instantly reject his claims as false. We think it is possible using the codeword will bypass the delusions and I'll be able to remember all of the bad things that came along with not taking action last time. We haven't used it yet, but this is the plan...

Your account of your experiences sound very frightening and painful.
I am very sorry you encounter such overwhelming symptoms.

You do clearly underscore the depth of the pain involved when you mention you might feel tempted to take your life under more intense episodes.

This has to be very trying, no doubt at all. Yet, please do make a pact with yourself, your therapist (if you work with one) and/or with a family member or friend. Make an agreement and a plan with them, in case you ever feel so overwhelmed.

In reality, you should not have to lose your life in order to escape the terror and the pain.

Please do make a "survival" plan, listing the steps you'll need to take in order to preserve your life and to become well.

I am very sorry for your pain.

Don’t worry about it, you didn’t hurt me at all...it’s hard for me to tell the story without adding the humorous aspects so I think it gets confusing as to what is humor and what is serious.

I also understand what you mean about the place/space....it sort of blurs reality. I don’t go there often but for me it’s more of a structured outlet. There’s an entry and exit so once you leave you’re out. When I had my psychosis I couldn’t find an exit so for me having a structure helps. Does that make sense?

It’s not something you want to do while you believe it true, it’s something you do after you realize it’s possibly a delusion and only if it doesn’t hurt you or anyone else. It’s gotta be exploratory and use the rules of the consensus reality not your own rules.

Command hallucinations are totally different though....I usually just ignore those.

So I have to agree they’re meaningful in some way. Basically I was drawn to shamanism by a new age friend I knew in grad school. She took me on a journey and found a spirit animal that was willing to help me. It must have been buried in my subconscious for 10-15 years. There’s just something super appealing about the concept to me, possibly because I was missing spirituality in my life.

The part of my brain that believes in shamanism is also is the part that believes in God...but this seems different than my conscious belief system. My conscious belief system is still a non believer in anything. It’s all very complicated in a way, but I believe there can be different areas of the brain with different levels of consciousness. Part of my delusions involved the right half of my brain as a distinct entity from the left, but it could not speak, auditory hallucinations were the result of it trying to communicate. Super weird I know, but there was one study where thy put half the brain to sleep and give questions and you can get different answers from each half.

Sorry I’m rambling on but the point is there is this spirituality belief that is disconnected from my conscious mind and also another delusion I had was that I needed to reintegrate my brain and I’d be stable. It’s almost as if my brain were giving me instructions to get better again. I could never figure out what to do for the reintegration though. It’s possible it’s just a delusion, or it could be meaningful. My brain in th psychotic state was actually really good at providing a different type of answer than would typically occur to my conscious mind. For example, i was playing star ocean and very near to th end of the game. Suddenly my team of characters could not make it past soldiers with ranged weapons. I must have died 50 times and then a hallucination said I needed to fight ranged weapons with ranged weapons...well it worked. While I’ve always enjoyed video games I’m not particularly skilled at strategy so this was a revelation and it came somewhere from my own mind....should I disregard it just because it’s not coming from my conscious mind?

Given psychosis you can either dump everything in the trash in which case you’re ignoring part of your own mind or you can work though it in some way. I’ve chosen to work through it and respect all the inner subconscious components of my mind. This seems to provide peace for me.

Sorry bluebicycle if I’ve derailed your thread at all. I still stand by the fact that after a delusion occurs you can work through it and take most of its power away by providing structure and rules, an external belief system based in consensus reality if you will. Then if it occurs again, which for me I often revisited the same delusion, it will not have the same power. For me, my delusions were things that I had not decided on yet as far as belief...if I had a strong feeling about something I tended not be be delusional about it. It’s all the more magical bits to the world.