insomnia??????

Dear Beadlady and suzy,
thank you for sharing of yourselfs with me.
It is really something wonderful to have the ability of exchange via the internet.
I too have lost someone I cared about, my brother to suicide...it devastated my parents, and have never gotten over the feelings of guilt and sadness and anger...that was 18 years ago. My mother suffers with depression all of her life and used to have taking her life as an option, tucked away it the back of her mind, when he killed himself that took that away forever.
I too am bipolar 1, have been a bit hypo manic being on this computer for hours and hours over the past week when I should have been doing other things. But have also been depressed with my self...feeling bad...so need to doing something to change that...I resist change so much.
thank you again for sharing...I wish you both wellness. I am 45 and think I am having a mid life crisis...perhaps I should go back into counseling....
bizi

Happy belated birthday suzy...hope you had some joy to spend with others.
I called my pdoc today and requested the decrease in ambien from 12.5mg to 6.25mg...she called back and said to just cut them in half.
WEll you can't do that they are controlled released...so will have to get that straightened out tomorrow.
Hoping that I don't have any rebound insomnia!
bizi
on benzo buddies they told me that 10mg of ambien is the equal to .25mg of klonipin...which goes to show how powerful these meds are!

How many hours do you sleep a night? Is this enough?
3-6 when manic (more than enough)
6-8.5 normal
9-11 when depressed

HOw many of you suffer with insomnia? or sleep issues for that matter?
Only when I'm manic. It used to bother me until I realized that I'm usually not tired. The less I worry about it, the easier it gets to sleep.

Have you ever tried sleeping pills/aides before?
I used to use melatonin. As it turns out, it makes me depressed. I don't touch it anymore.

If you can't/won't take them how does your not
sleeping interfer with your life.
It really doesn't. It can be difficult to do things like read, but otherwise I'm fine. If it gets really severe, sometimes I'll nod off or even hallucinate.

Does this insomnia make you manic?
Which came first, the chicken or the egg? Mania and insomnia usually coincide for me. I can have one without the other though. I'm not sure which causes which.

HOw do you deal with not sleeping
I accept it. I usually get up and do something boring, and eventually I'll get sleepy. I've done homework at 4 am many times.

Do you hold a job...have to get places the next day?
Yes. Nobody usually notices unless I have dark circles under my eyes.

The best way to treat insomnia is to accept it. If you don't worry about it, it usually goes away.

i hear you on the 'don't worry about it' with regards to insomnia. because we've struggled with insomnia issues since being very young (like 3 or 4) it don't really bother me. pdocs are more concerned about it than i sometimes am. it interferes in my life in 2 ways - because hubby gets a little upset when we don't come to bed at night and because i can nod off anywhere anytime if my body decides it wants to sleep for 15 or 20 minutes. its embarassing because it can happen mid-conversation.....but then i'm usually good to go for another several hours so it kinda takes care of itself. we don't take no sleeping aides no more either because i don't like the side effects and the extra sleep we get from it is minimal. ain't worth it..

Hi seraph,
thank you for sharing.
It is interesting what you said about which came first.
For isntance...I think that my being on the computer for hours on end makes me hypomanic. Or is it that I am hypomanic and thus stay on the computer for hours.
HOpe you are having a good day.
Hi bead lady!
bizi

hi bizi!! trying to get some b.work done, we're so sleepy but waiting on someone so have to stay awake..........anyway we're gonna try and see if spending some time on the computer will make us a bit hypomanic..........cuz i know we're NOT as we start...........this may be interesting...we'll let ye all know!

beadlady29

Doc says I have to call her when the insomnia gets bad again (went from hypo mania to depression without warning--a deep depression). She wants me to sleep 6 hours a night, which so far is impossible for me despite all the sedating meds I take. She wants me to take some Seroquel. I'm resisting. I already take so much stuff.

Insomnia is not good for your health--bad for blood pressure (on meds for that), bad for mood control (yeah got that), bad for weight control (me again), bad for memory (what was I talking about?)...

Just plain bad to not let your body & mind get rest so I think it is an issue to be addressed (especially if you are bipolar & have the mania issue). I don't think it's a "just don't worry about it" issue (at least from my experience).--Suzy

hi suzy and lady
Oh I worry about my sleeping...and I worry aboaut my computer useage...my arm is starting to hurt like carpel tunnel syndrome so I know that I have been over using it.
Am going to pick up my 6.25mg of ambien tomorrow and see how it goes.
Hope you are doing alright.
thanks for writing.
bizi

hello bizi and suzy:

we do know how bad for us our lack of sleep is. but i/ve been pumped full of seroquel, geodon, klonopin, ambien, lunesta, risperdal, etc.........these medicines sedate us and we do sleep at night..about 4-5 hours a night on a good night........but for some reasone, they seem to lose their effectiveness on me after a couple of months and then we're right bqck where started from., the diff. being that then we're also very spaced out during the day. SSSSSOOOOOOOOOO...i feel like what's the point in taking the stuff.....like is one hour extra of sleep 3 or 4 nights a week worth taking these meds. and dealing w/ the side effects? for us it ain't.
we don't take a whole lot of meds right now....we're on trileptal 300m.g. in a.m. and 600m.g. at bedtime, abilify 30 mg. at bedtime, xanax 1 mg. 4x per day, and requip 1mg. 2x perday. then we also take meds for allergy, high blood pressure, fibromyalgia and another related chronically painful disease, and stuff for our belly cause we gots colitis and barett's. i often wonder how many of these physical problems is caused form the anxiety/fear that just never seems to go away.
for me, i have decided that quality of life vs. quantity is more important. Like i would rather spend 55 years on this planet and have good quality of life, over living to a ripe old age w/ poor quality of life. i call being spaced out of my gourd poor quality of life. We talk to T and pdoc about the sleep/manic issues, but never seem to move forward and improve this consistently. so like why sweat what i can't seem to change?
______________________________________________________live, love, learn

How are you sleeping now suzy?

Bead lady, that is a lot of xanax....
It has a very short half life...have you ever considered a longer acting benzo like klonipin?
10mg of ambien is equal to .25mg of xanax.
I jsut know that I have read that poeple can start having rebound anxiety from benzo use.
my pdoc prescribed klonipin for me and I weaned off it easily.
bizi

Hey bizi! Did you get much sleep last nite on the new dose of ambien?
Hello suzy! hope you're doing okay.
pdoc won't put us on klonopin, said it will not work as good as xanax????????? Didn't realize that xz is as strong as that.....just know that it slows down our brain enough that we can function without trying to run 3 10K's at once. my brain runs a million miles a minute in at least 3 different directions at once when we don't take this stuff like we're supposed to. CAN't LET DOWN OUR GUARD FOR A SECOND-----------perish the thought because its too scary.............know that this is definitely NOT healthy ........its the only way we know how to feel safe in a very UNSAFE world.

hi bead lady,
tonight is the first dose of 6.25mg so we will see how it goes.
thanks for asking.
I think the klonipin lasts longer...do you ever wake up in the morning feeling anxious? how do you space out your doses? every 6 hours? klonipin last 8-12 hours so you usually only take it 2-3 times a day.
I only took it twice a day.
Do you have plans for the weekend?
need to get going to bed.
bizi

Hi, All. I'm going to try to sleep some.

I took Xanax for about 17 years (at night only) without increasing dose, but the doc changed me to klonopin after I had that manic phase & then did the OD (Xanax was one of the drugs I took). I do like klonopin better, but I don't take either of them during the day. I just ride out the anxiety during the day. Don't want to compromise my being "alive" I guess.--Suzy

get some sleep suzy!!!
bizi

good morning ( if you can call it that) bizi and suzy..................

really appreciate ye all's support.....thanks
weeeelllllllllllllllllll, now that we're probably switching T,s, it appears that we will have to switch pdocs as well....................CMH has this all or nothing philosiphy wherein you either get all of your mental health services from them or you don't get none at all...................sounds like i need to ask new pdoc about switching from xanax to klonopin.........................did the klonopin drag u down in the daytime?.................i wonder how difficult the transition thing is from the xz to the klonopin....? .........is it really healthier for you w/ les side effects and less hard on your physical body?.............wonder what old pdocs problem is if this is better for you because we did ask him about this one time thinking that the klonopin might be less addictive which is somewhere we do NOT want to go!!!!!!..............

sometimes we wake up so scared that we are in panic mode - can't breathe, feel like its stuck in our throat, heart beating rapidly and shaking and don't know what we're so scared of.......always get out of bed immediately upon waking up and it don't mater what time it is because we cannot stay in that bed and not be asleep..................

yes, we space out the xz about every six hours, although we have been known to miss the second dose once in awhile especially if we're out running errands.............i like the idea of only taking klo.. 2 or threee times a day vs. xz 4 times a day.............remembering to take our meds can sometimes be an issue.......

no, we ain't got none yet.........we should spend sometime ( quite a bit actually) on the beadwork, wish it was nice enough outside to work on this outside on the back porch.................i'm pretty much happy being a home body - gets kinda lonely but its safer than going out and 'socializing'.........of course what i should get done and what we actually do may be 2 diff. stories - if hubby decides we're gonna do something we'll have to do it.............

bizi, i hope that you slept beter that we did last nite and for longer......suzy, hope you slept well too

Bead lady,
you are not going to be happy about this but all benzos are addicting.
So to say one is better than the other is kindof not true.
On the other hand...the klonipin lasts longer so you don't have to dose as often.
I really think you could just take it twice a day.
and the pills are bigger so they can be cut in half easier.
It is such a small dose so we think that they aren't that strong but they are very strong!
like I said....10mg of ambien is equal to .25mg of klonipin/xanax.
so 1mg of xanax is equal to 40mg of ambien.
they say if you are trying to cut back on the benzo use tha tit is best to switch to vallium...that has the longest half life and easiest to cut the doses down...but alot of docs don't want to prescribe vallium, maybe your new pdoc will prescribe klonipin for you. Maybe this will help you to sleep better?

It took me along time to fall asleep but I did not do the good sleep habits mode, was on the computer too long and stayed up to late and did not take them early...so must work on my nite time routine..
I slept great when I got to sleep though...which is very good!
bizi

I forgot about valerian for sleep!
What do you guys think about this?
bizi

How's it going bizi??
you know what, you're right, we're not so happy about that. Why did ambien knock us out at 12 mg but the 1mg xanax just slows us down? pdoc should of explained this to us. ...of course the ambien only knocked us out for 3 or 4 hours at best, but i am confused. are i making any sense about what we don't understand.
by the bye.we're unhappy today anyway so adding a little more to the pot don't make too much difference. hunny-doing all day...............

good luck on the sleep schedule mode stuff. its really hard for us too. glad to know you at least got some sleep.

i'm this - close to pulling everything out of the rockpile shop ( that's the place that decided for me we're gonna teach the class on the 22nd). the woman needs to make up her mind how ( and who for that matter) she is gonna run her shop...............

not been a good day .....................gonna fix some grub see if that don't make us feel gooder.
thanks for all your support.beadlady29

I guess i'm lucky in that Xanax & Klonopin don't make me feel "mellow" or "high'--just sleepy!!

So I'm not tempted to take them during the day (though the pdoc says I can if need be--only had to do that once every 6 mos. or so).

But, I could see how I could get hooked on Vicodeine (sp?). I've had 2 knee surgeries & 1 foot surgery that required Vicodeine. But once I got the info. that getting hooked on that to give you "joy" your brain shuts off that aspect & you need the drug to feel the "joy." I have little enough "natural" joy so I don't want to destroy what little capabilities my brain has!! I guess getting hooked on Vicodeine could destroy that whole part of my brain & deprive me of being able to feel "joy" naturally. Scary!!--Suzy

that vicoden is definitely something to watch........that's what hubby's ex killed herself on.........it cost him $35,000.000 to keep her out of prison ( we're not talking the local county jail here either) for stealing prescription pads, writing fake prescriptions, and of course getting them filled...........stealing vicoden out of her patients meds ( she was a nurse asst or something like that) ............ obviously she was highly addicted to that stuff, and she had a fondness for the bottle as well...............NOT good................
personally i won't touch vicoden w/ a 10-foot pole because i\ve seen what addiction to it and drugs like it ( oxycontin), etc........can do to a person.............never personally had addiction to anything but cigarettes but dad had alcohol problems ( don't know if mom had any drug issues or not - kinda hard to tell) and we vowed a long time ago that we would not end up like him.....won't touch alcohol w\ a ten foot trouble tither.
iNTERESTING..................................beadlady29

Hi fellow bipolar people, lol.

bizi, to answer your questions...

How many hours do you sleep a night? Is this enough? 4-5 hours, and like others, sometimes I'm awake for 2 straight days. The longest one I've been awake was 4 straight days >.>
How many of you suffer with insomnia? or sleep issues for that matter? I have severe insomnia, I take sleeping pills but I don't think they're effective.
Have you ever tried sleeping pills/aides before? Yes
Does this insomnia make you manic? I realize since I don't have much sleep, therefore less energy, I tend to be easily irritable about things around me. I'm mad at people for no apparent reason.
How do you deal with not sleeping? Fiddling with Photoshop, watching DVDs, or reading a novel >.> Or thinking about things, you know...
Do you hold a job...have to get places the next day? I'm in University

My sleeping pill doesn't work. It's called sleepasil, a local brand. Is Xanax effective? I've heard of it. What pills do you suggest? Please suggest some pills then I'll have them consulted with my psychiatrist if I'm allowed to take them ;]

I read the replies, and it seems you're all going for Xanax...

<font color="purple">Clandestine</font>

I'm taking Klonopin now instead of Xanax, Trazodone (anti-depressant that has sedating qualities), Topamax (for bipolar that has sedating qualities)--but nothing seems to make me sleep for an extended length of time.

3-4 hours is the upper limit for me.

Pdoc wants to add a little Seroquel (sp?)--won't go for it. Too afraid of being groggy in the morning or doing a "Heath Ledger" with taking so many sedating drugs.--Suzy

clandestine,
Have you tried the OTC tylenol PM?
I took that for a couple of years it worked great!
Took the generic version of it.
Many people get by with melatonin which helps to restart your sleep cycle....and is not addictive like all of the other prescription meds.
Xanax is a very powerful tranquilizer....so if you are going to ask for that.
try .25mg

keep us posted
3-4 hours suzy is not enough sleep...
I am sorry....
on another forum that I post there are so many people with sleep issues.
bizi

Good morning Suzy, and welcome Clandestine!!!!!!! we've not been areound PC for a real longtime either, but i can tell you its a great place!.......

Xanax is really powerful but not usually prescribed for sleep - more often prescribed for SEVERE anxiety, panic attacks, etc. Klonopin is also classified in the anti-anxiety ( and also anti-seizure) category but is also used to help promote better sleep.

TylenolPM is a good OTC for sleep. ye all ain't gonna belive this but another good OTC for sleep is benadryl ( classified as an antihistamine). we took that for sleep for quite awhile ( pdoc had us on 75mg at bedtime, however 25mg is usually sufficient for most people) but had a side effect issue w/ it .......RLS (restless leg syndrome)......................as things go, now, years later we have a general RLS dx ( unrelated to med. side effects), and have to take REquip 2x a day for it..........................go figure.

Melatonin was originally a homeopathic remedy. it is definitely also in the 'safe to take' category, is a natural substance, and , as Suzy said, is non-addictive...This is now available even in pill form ( used to be taken in drops, sublingually) and i think one can even get a prescription for it nowadays........ is good but don't think its real effective over long periods of time

Lunesta is a prescription sleep aide that does help some people w/ sleep issues but has this nasty side effect of causing one's mouth to take like metal - so bad that it is a NOTICEABLE side effect that keeps many from taking it..............Ambien is another...........very STRong.also habit-forming (so is lunesta)........Ambien and lunesta both tend to leave one w/ a 'hungover' feeling the next a.m. which can take 3-4 hours to get past every a.m. after when you take it............

Another good prescription med. for sleep...( this one gets my vote) .is Remeron.....seems to work very well, even over a long period of time.....don't leave us w/ the hungover feeling the next morning and is not as addictive as ambien or lunesta.........we regularly get 5-6 hours of sleep a night on this..........there is, of course a problem w/ this too but probably ain't an issue for everyone - a lot of insurance (like mine) co.'s won't pay for it!!!!!!!! this med runs in the 100's of $ range per month so unless you can get samples ( which is what i do, when they're available) or your insurance can cover it expect to go broke trying to pay for this one..

Clandestine, i really like the Lord Byron quote on your post.

Suzy5654, your smart to stay very far away from the Seroquel ............i also refuse to take this one ( have taken it in the past, not so very bad except pdocs push the 'therapuetic' level of dosing w/ this. It is very strong and very sedating...Actually classified as an anti-psychotic ( for which it IS beneficial)......................

beadlady29

smile

Hey everyone - Suzy, Bizi, beadlady!

I stopped my medications 3 months ago. ;[ My family thinks what I went through is just a phase and it'll pass away. The important thing for them is to "see" I'm fine, so I let them see I'm fine.

My psychiatrist told me not to stop meds, and I read it too from an article from Glamour magazine, not to stop meds ever, especially if you're just newly diagnosed. What can I do? I'm just a student, and I have no part-time work. I can't afford the expenses of medications and consulations on my own ;[

However, I'll be saving from my allowance now. I'm planning on getting back to meds and consulations this June. I'll just not shop anymore, lol...

And while I was in the hospital, I was prescribed to take Remeron and Risperdal. Those are the only medications I took. Since I have stopped using them, I didn't see the full effect. But during the time I was taking them, I have no problems. I took them for 3 weeks straight, and I got to sleep. And beadlady29, it's quite expensive, that's the thing!! And it's not sold everwhere, lol.

I live in Asia, by the way ;]

As for the Lord Byron quote, someone in the online game I'm playing shared that quote to me, who also happens to be diagnosed with bipolard disorder.

<font color="purple">Clandestine</font>